Looking for additions/edits to my mic/gear recommendations

[The Flying Sloth]

Hey guys, 
I have to get to work so I'll leave this simple.
I'm looking for any edits/additions anyone wants to make to my guide or recommendations list to make it more complete so if anyone has anything to say or add feel free to make your opinion known.
I'm more than happy for people to disagree with me, I'll add your opinion too so that it's available for people to see.
This is colour coded on my profile so it's easier to read but I'll leave a blank version in this spoiler below if you don't want to go look there.

Appreciate all of you who take the time to read this and/or offer edits or improvements.
I don't want to take credit for any work anyone else does so any suggestions implemented will tag the contributor.

Sloth

 

Spoiler

 IMPORTANT!! YOU MIGHT HAVE TROUBLE READING THIS IN LIGHT MODE, IT WAS DESIGNED TO STAND OUT IN DARK MODE, IF YOU'RE HAVING READING DIFFICULTIES TRY CHANGING THAT SETTING.
My basic advice and recommendations when choosing an interface/microphone
What do I need to use a studio (XLR) mic on my PC?

Spoiler

 

It's pretty simple really you will need;

1. A studio (XLR) Mic
2. An Audio interface
3. An XLR cable (if it doesn't come with either your mic or interface)
   And Finally
4. A mounting system of some sort (Ebay 'sort by cheapest' scissor arm works just fine in 90% of cases)

What do I need to know about choosing a mic?

Spoiler

First thing first, the cheap NW/BM series mics found all over Ebay and Amazon are trash and you should not purchase one, they are poor clones of the iSK BM series microphones and they utilise a 20 cent electret element (rather than a real condenser capsule) and the adequate circuitry to drive said electret is simply not present, rather a couple of resistors and a single transistor is what you'll get. 

While the massive amount of mics available on a budget may seem crazy at first, almost all of them come out of one of two Chinese factories, ShuaiYin or Feilo. MXL, CAD, Marantz Pro, Nady, Apex, t.bone, Superlux, Alctron, Carvin, IMG Stageline, Presonus, Mackie, TNC, AIR, Joe Meek and many other microphones often share similar or the same circuitry and are often coming out of these same factories. Even 'expensive' microphones from ADK, Advanced Audio, Telefunken, Avantone, Stellar, Mojave or 3U Audio are selling modified versions of these Chinese microphones (with varying levels of customisation). Many 'boutique' manufacturers like Viking Microphones and Weird Audio are genuinely just rebranding Chinese OEM mics (ShuaiYin SYT1200  and Alctron CS95 respectively) And making a massive profit off it so it's important to do your research before thinking you're getting a great deal on a 'pro' microphone. Almost all cheap condenser mics from China copy a Neumann K67-type capsule without the EQ circuit found in the U67 leading them to be extremely sibilant (lots of harsh, high frequencies, picks up tonnes of the ess sound) and that isn't pleasing to the ears.

The AT 2020 and 2035 are consistently recommended both here and everywhere else and certainly aren't bad microphones if you don't have much background noise (there's a reason they're the low budget go-to), if you do have background noise you may want to use a dynamic microphone. Just remember that Condenser microphones are extremely sensitive (will pick up a tonne of background noise) and Dynamic microphones will often require an inline preamp to get any decent volume out of them (like the Klark Teknic CT1) and using a dynamic mic without one can make it sound very lifeless, just something to keep in mind. here are a plethora of microphone options available with many microphones rivaling or outright beating the 2020/35 in a very similar price range (Brands like MXL, 3U, ADK, isk and CAD among others) so just take your time finding the microphone that will sound the best in your voice. If you can't try them yourself the Podcastage YouTube channel can be a very useful point of reference.

What is an audio interface and why should I use one?

Spoiler

To simplify things, an Audio Interface is how you get the signal from an XLR mic into your PC.
No matter what you may have heard from Youtube, an Amazon listing or elsewhere, if you are purchasing an XLR microphone YOU WILL NEED AN AUDIO INTERFACE to send that microphone signal into your computer. No XLR to 3.5mm adapter, phantom power supply or little USB sound card is going to have the preamplifiers, ADC and power supply of an interface. 

Audio interfaces share much of the same circuitry as standalone consumer DACs and Headphone Amplifiers but often come in at a much more acceptable price point. While some may argue that consumer systems are 'higher fidelity' or 'sound better' comparing options in a similar price range shows that simply isn't true. Audio interfaces by design must be extremely transparent, not imparting any EQ or effects onto an audio signal which leads to them using DAC and amplification chips designed specifically for that purpose, to create clean, clinical audio. This accuracy may sound less 'musical' than a tube or consumer amplifier but as far as accuracy and fidelity go, for the price it's very hard to find a consumer solution that is 'better than' even a basic interface. Beyond that quality argument interfaces provide you with options for the future, extra outputs and the ability to use high quality microphones should you ever decide to upgrade, these options along with the price are the reason I consider that interfaces are usually better value than standalone systems.

Audio when inside a computer is all ones and zeroes until it goes through something called a Digital to Analogue Converter or DAC for short, computers have DACs built in but they're not exactly the highest quality so some people choose to send those ones and zeroes out of their computer and into an external DAC whether it be standalone or inside an audio interface. Now, the same thing goes in reverse for microphones, your computer has things called Analogue to Digital Converters or ADCs for short that turn the analogue waveform from a mic into ones and zeroes. You guessed it, the ones inside a computer are steaming piles of monkey doo doo without decent preamps or the 48V phantom power that you need for running studio microphones so studios and many people recording at home use the mic preamps, 48v phantom power and ADCs in an interface instead. Now, those ones and zeroes are sent to and from the interface on a USB cable and since digital signals don't degrade nearly as much as Analogue ones do you don't have to worry so much about all sorts of things like shielding and interference.

As for interfaces, most interface options in the low range share the same basic functionality and the only noticeable difference to the average person who wants one just for better discord audio will be limited to aesthetics making it very easy to just recommend the cheapest option that is likely to continue receiving manufacturer support. While this is effective to a point many people choose to run high-impedence headphones or dynamic microphones in which case more attention must be used to make sure the interface has a powerful enough headphone amp and mic preamp. When buying an interface for recording/studio use it's important to consider what features you will need, how many inputs and outputs, inserts, all those sorts of things. If you're looking for lots of channels, expandable IO over ADAT or another standard will be your best friend. Just make sure what you're buying has the features you need and is compatible with the rest of your equipment so you're not stuck trying to shove an RJ45 connector into a Fiber Optic port.

Basic recommendations for studio audio equipment (interfaces and microphones)
These mics/interfaces are being recommended based on value for money alone along with my experience as a music producer and performer (stage, studio and otherwise), there are likely many other options that have been left off this list that would be as good if not better that I either have no experience with or personally dislike.

USB Mics:

• I know nothing about these and would strongly recommend not purchasing one unless you really dislike the idea of upgrading in future and like overpaying for mediocre audio. They often break in weird and wonderful ways that just aren't seen in a good XLR microphone due to the added complexity of ADC conversion among other things in USB mics. If you still really want to buy one refer to this (quite old) shootout. The only microphones I will make an exception for are the Samson Q2u and Audio Technica 2005 due to them being both XLR AND USB, allowing the owner to use it standalone and continue to use it once they get an audio interface. [UPDATE] : It seems the Q2U and 2005 are almost globally out of stock so my new recommendation will be the t.bone MB 88U

  [EDIT: Courtesy of @bowrilla]

  Quote

  USB microphones with appropriate Win 7 drivers worked perfectly fine under Win 7 but [not with] the ASIO driver support of Win 10. [Many bugs,] especially low volume and so on is because of this. [There is] no way of fixing this except downgrading your OS, finding some older drivers that work with Win 10 or getting a newer USB microphone that is KNOWN to work with Win10. Similar issues can occur with USB audio interfaces if their drivers suck though to my knowledge issues occur a lot less often.

   

XLR Mics:

If you're still not confident of the differences between dynamic and condenser mics here's a small test I made for someone who wasn't sure what to purchase, there are 6 files, three are the raw recordings and three have basic noise removal done (and a volume boost on the MB75), C2 (Small DIaphragm Condenser) has the wind sock on it that it comes with, ADK (Large Diaphragm Condenser) is using a 2 layer nylon pop filter (the cheap Ebay ones on a gooseneck) and the MB75 (Dynamic) isn't using a pop filter as it has inbuilt wind foam. These were recorded in a room with a fair amount of background noise that isn't acoustically treated in any meaningful way so It should give you a pretty fair idea of what to expect. In these clips the MB75 is not using an inline preamp so you can see the volume difference and why I recommend them.

I haven't done anything else to them, the volumes aren't equal, I just turned the mic pre (same as what's in the UMC202HD) all the way up and recorded in roughly the same quiet speaking voice at 1/2, 2 and 5 foot intervals. 

• Under 100$ (3 examples)
  -MXL V67G (condenser, will pick up background noise, considered a mainstream value for money champion with it earning a spot in many pro studios )
  -Tbone MB75 (Dynamic, strongly suggest inline preamp, clone of the industry standard Shure SM57 and is just as good)
  -Behringer C2 (condenser but very directional, supercardioid, so can miss more keyboard noise and whatnot, this is what I personally use for discord calls)
   
• Between 100$ and 200$ (4 examples)
  -3U Audio CM1 (Condenser, will pick up background noise but beautiful mic for the money, there's a reason for the 6000 replies on this thread)
  -Used ADK Hamburg / Vienna / A6 (Condenser will pick up background noise, have personally used the MK8 Vienna on many vocal applications and given infinite money would buy all the mics from this manufacter or 3U very happily)
  -ElectroVoice RE320 (Dynamic, would strongly recommend inline preamp, can be modified to be like its older brother the RE20)
  -t.bone SCT 800 (Tube condenser microphone with replaceable socketed tube, same microphone as the renowned discontinued SE 5500 and is great for recording vocals)
   
•  Bonus Microphones
  -3U Audio Warbler series (Condenser, will pick up background noise, Would be great value mics at double the money, considered a 'neumann killer')
  -Shure SM7B (Dynamic, would recommend inline preamp, industry standard but personally have trouble fitting it in a mix)
  -ElectroVoice RE20 (Dynamic, would recommend inline preamp, the other industry standard large diaphragm dynamic)
  -Groove Tubes GT67 (Tube Condenser, hands down best mic I've ever heard used on Discord, use it for all my vocals, considered by some the best mic ever made though that's quite possibly a slight exaggeration)
  -Stellar CM5/CM6 (Tube Condenser, both mics consistently play in the same leagues as mics double their price, CM5 is styled after the AKG C12 and CM6 styled after a Neumann)
  -Advanced Audio (Some of the most faithful / great sounding mics replicating much more expensive or vintage microphones) 
   
• Broadcast / Podcast (Dynamic) Microphones
  -There are a lot to choose from if this is your specific usecase so refer to this shootout.
  
  There are few (if any) bad microphones between ADK, Advanced Audio, Stellar and 3U Audio, it is very difficult to go wrong with a mic from these 4 manufacturers.

Interfaces
IF YOU WANT TO USE 250+ OHM HEADPHONES ON A LOW END INTERFACE I HIGHLY SUGGEST A BEHRINGER MA400,

• Between 00$ and 100$ (4 examples)
  -Behringer UM2 (just about the cheapest usable XLR input out there, used by Linus himself)
  -Behringer UMC202HD (just about the cheapest usable audio interface out there with discrete headphone controls, can power 250ohm Beyerdynamic headphones according to the manufacturer)
  -Swissonic UA-2x2 (Prettiest Behringer UMC202 clone)
  And Finally
  -NI Komplete Audio 1 (Biggest volume knob under $100 and yes, this is the only reason it made the list)
   
• Between 100$ and 300$
  -Behringer UMC1820 (Cheapest 8 preamp interface, just also happens to be my current interface, has ADAT which is neat for adding another 8 preamps later, can power 250ohm Beyerdynamic headphones according to the manufacturer)
  -RME Digiface USB (LIGHTPIPES BABYYYYYYYY, I'm in the middle of convincing myself to upgrade to this one, allows for 32 simultaneous inputs over ADAT, combined with the ADA8200 it's the lowest cost per channel interface available)
  -Any of the Focusrite Scarlett stuff (Never been my favourite but I've had to use them in the past and they're not bad, they certainly don't look bad, just not as good value as the Behringer kit, the 2i2 and up can power 250ohm Beyerdynamic headphones according to manufacturer but your mileage may vary)

INLINE PREAMPS (highly recommended for dynamic microphones)

• Not splitting these by price, just buy the CT1
  -Triton Audio Fethead (does the thing and does it good)
  -Klark Teknik CT1 (does the thing almost as good but for less money)
  -Cloudlifter (does the thing less good than the Fethead for more money)

 

CURRENT PERSONAL AUDIO GEAR 
ordered from cheapest to most expensive per unit [30/04/2020]

• Roughly colour coded
  -BM800 Cheap Ebay Mic (Bad bad not good, electret design, very noisy)
  -Tbone MB75 (Dynamic mic, SM57 copy, does the 57 thing better than the original, for instruments, drums and vocal)
  -Behringer C2 Stereoset x2 (Small diaphragm pencil mics, very directional, use on discord and for guitar/percussion)
  -Audio Technica M20x (Cheap headphones, only use them for discord or when recording, sound great for the price)
  -Behringer MDX2600 Compressor (Cheap, use it for spoken word, don't use it if you are seriously recording music)
  -M Audio Oxygen 61 Midi Keyboard (Does what it's supposed to)
  -Superlux CM-H8C x4 (Large diaphragm multipattern mics, natural sound, use them as utility 'throw them on anything' mics)
  -Behringer UMC1820 interface (8 mic preamps and expandable over ADAT, two dedicated headphone amplifiers on separate outputs)
  -ADK Vienna MK8 (Large diaphragm vocal microphone, brilliant sound, quite bright)
  -Tannoy Reveal 5A Studio Monitors (Older model but still sound great)
  -Groove Tubes GT67 (Large diaphragm multipattern tube microphone, beatiful warm sound, use on vocals)
  -Mackie Onyx 32.4 (Very big mixing console/desk, very very big....)

 

Hope that was generic enough to help future someone

Sloth

 

 

 

[Tigerleon]

Sorry sloth too much for me to take in. It seems your list is on point.

[The Flying Sloth]

1 hour ago, Tigerleon said:

Sorry sloth too much for me to take in. It seems your list is on point.

Appreciate you taking the time to read through it.

[Derkoli]

If you want another sub $100 Microphone recommendation, the AKG P4 is a pretty good addition. I personally use mine for high SPL measurements for DSP stuff.

 

It's frequency response is ideal for crisp vocal stuff, and has a cardioid polar pattern, so is pretty good at rejecting noise. It also feels bomb proof and has a standard threaded mount.

 

Also comes with a pretty damn nice bag to store it in.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AKG-P4-Dynamic-Instrument-Microphone/dp/B003T0185O?th=1

Edited July 13, 2020 by Derkoli
Grammar crud

[The Flying Sloth]

10 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

If you want another sub $100 Microphone recommendation's, the AKG P4 is a pretty good addition. I personally use mine for high SPL measurements for DSP stuff.

 

It's frequency response is ideal for crisp vocal stuff, and has a cardioid polar pattern, so is pretty good at rejecting noise. It also feels bomb proof and has a standard threaded mount.

 

Also comes with a pretty damn nice bag to store it in.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AKG-P4-Dynamic-Instrument-Microphone/dp/B003T0185O?th=1

Good shout,
Will certainly take a look at that, Might split each price range by mic types so I can fit a few more in.
Would you know what the sensitivity i like? will it benefit from an inline preamp on a cheap interface the same way other dynamics do?

At the moment I'm parting out a drum mic rig and from memory the P4 is the tom/snare mic used in the AKG mic sets, would you have previously done any comparison between the P4 and a 57 for those purposes? I'm interested in getting something somewhere between the 57 and the MD421 (seemingly the two choices that every studio makes other than dropping the dough for Audix) and the P4 has piqued my interest.

[Derkoli]

8 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Good shout,
Will certainly take a look at that, Might split each price range by mic types so I can fit a few more in.

At the moment I'm parting out a drum mic rig and from memory the P4 is the tom/snare mic used in the AKG mic sets, would you have previously done any comparison between the P4 and a 57 for those purposes? I'm interested in getting something somewhere between the 57 and the MD421 (seemingly the two choices that every studio makes other than dropping the dough for Audix) and the P4 has piqued my interest.

I'll get some recordings of the P4 in the morning if you like.

 

I actually really like the sound of it, it's a bit bass light, but it's not exactly made for kick drums or anything.

 

Treble is stupidly clean for its price.

 

IIRC AKG spec's the P4 to be used for pretty much anything that is remotely high SPL or treble heavy.

[The Flying Sloth]

Just now, Derkoli said:

I'll get some recordings of the P4 in the morning if you like.

 

I actually really like the sound of it, it's a bit bass light, but it's not exactly made for kick drums or anything.

 

Treble is stupidly clean for its price.

 

IIRC AKG spec's the P4 to be used for anything that is remotely high SPL or treble heavy.

I trust your judgement,
It''s cheap enough that I might just pick one up for brass anyway, I've been considering getting ribbons but they make me nervous.

Thanks very much for taking the time to bring that mic to my attention. 

Added to the list

Quote

-AKG P4 [Courtesy of @Derkoli] (Dynamic, strongly suggest inline preamp, Designed as a snare/tom mic so the volume it can take before distorting is immense while still sounding crisp for vocal performances, probably bulletproof)

 

[Derkoli]

Just now, The Flying Sloth said:

I trust your judgement,
It''s cheap enough that I might just pick one up for brass anyway, I've been considering getting ribbons but they make me nervous.

Thanks very much for taking the time to bring that mic to my attention. 

Added to the list

 

Haha, Don't be nervous about ribbons. If you keep them covered/in a case while you aren't using them and don't put them infront of an AC unit, they'll be happy.

 

I quite like ribbon's (infact I pretty much love them), but I must admit it is nice to not massively worry about a condenser or dynamic microphone.

[The Flying Sloth]

9 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

Haha, Don't be nervous about ribbons. If you keep them covered/in a case while you aren't using them and don't put them infront of an AC unit, they'll be happy.

 

I quite like ribbon's (infact I pretty much love them), but I must admit it is nice to not massively worry about a condenser or dynamic microphone.

The darkness of ribbons (and that vintage tone) have always been big draws for me and I know that they shouldn't be mechanically damaged so long as they're treated with respect but convincing myself that I won't do something silly has been quite hard. Since discovering 3U Audio that decision has been made even harder as their 100USD edge terminated condenser has most of the darkness I want from a ribbon while still being a format I'm familiar with (and a damn great sounding mic). 

I suppose I'll just wait and see what happens and if I can make a stronger argument either way  

[The Flying Sloth]

If that's the extent of the edits/extra info I'll just keep working on it slowly as I go,
Thanks again for everyone who read it or provided suggestions (both publicly and privately)

[Hasbrouck]

On 7/14/2020 at 1:55 AM, The Flying Sloth said:

The darkness of ribbons (and that vintage tone) have always been big draws for me and I know that they shouldn't be mechanically damaged so long as they're treated with respect but convincing myself that I won't do something silly has been quite hard. Since discovering 3U Audio that decision has been made even harder as their 100USD edge terminated condenser has most of the darkness I want from a ribbon while still being a format I'm familiar with (and a damn great sounding mic). 

I suppose I'll just wait and see what happens and if I can make a stronger argument either way  

An other great advantage is the fabulous off axis rejection. 

[The Flying Sloth]

10 minutes ago, Hasbrouck said:

An other great advantage is the fabulous off axis rejection. 

But that's inherent in all figure 8 pattern microphones and I already have a bunch of selectable pattern condensers that I can use for that exact purpose, the tone is the only real draw and if I can come close to achieving it without having to worry about the microphones safety, well, it's difficult to decide to get a ribbon.

[Hasbrouck]

Interesting I didn't realize that about dual capsule figure 8. I knew that the physics of a ribbon keep it from responding much to air coming in from the side but I figured a switchable figure 8 would just sound like 2 cardioid or hypercardiod mics back to back. I suppose there is plenty of opportunity for phase rejection of some kind to achieve that sort of response though. 

[Hasbrouck]

On 7/14/2020 at 1:34 AM, Derkoli said:

I'll get some recordings of the P4 in the morning if you like.

 

I actually really like the sound of it, it's a bit bass light, but it's not exactly made for kick drums or anything.

 

Treble is stupidly clean for its price.

 

IIRC AKG spec's the P4 to be used for pretty much anything that is remotely high SPL or treble heavy.

Have you tried an older SM81 for comparison with the P4 that's always been my go to on harsher instruments and strings. Mine sound very warm compared to every other SDC I've used. 

[The Flying Sloth]

2 minutes ago, Hasbrouck said:

Interesting I didn't realize that about dual capsule figure 8. I knew that the physics of a ribbon keep it from responding much to air coming in from the side but I figured a switchable figure 8 would just sound like 2 cardioid or hypercardiod mics back to back. I suppose there is plenty of opportunity for phase rejection of some kind to achieve that sort of response though. 

Remember that ribbons aren't responding to wind, wind kills them, they respond to vibrations just like any other mic capsule and it's much harder for a mic diaphragm (condenser, ribbon or otherwise) to vibrate sideways than vibrate directly in response to front-on sources.

[The Flying Sloth]

2 minutes ago, Hasbrouck said:

Have you tried an older SM81 for comparison with the P4 that's always been my go to on harsher instruments and strings. Mine sound very warm compared to every other SDC I've used. 

I can't speak for the SM81 directly but many of my friends swear by the Neumann KM184, they have been shocked when hearing straight up comparisons between the KM184 (expensive) and isk pearl ($30) SDCs. Those peals truly are fantastic mics along with a lot of the other mics isk makes, would highly suggest you take a look at them if you ever get the chance.

[Hasbrouck]

15 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

I can't speak for the SM81 directly but many of my friends swear by the Neumann KM184, they have been shocked when hearing straight up comparisons between the KM184 (expensive) and isk pearl ($30) SDCs. Those peals truly are fantastic mics along with a lot of the other mics isk makes, would highly suggest you take a look at them if you ever get the chance.

Yeah I've got a use case that could benefit from a really cheap SDC that would be a chance to try them out. I don't usually even consider condensers under 200 but Oktava has changed my mind a bit. This is a whole other kind of cheap though. 

[The Flying Sloth]

42 minutes ago, Hasbrouck said:

Yeah I've got a use case that could benefit from a really cheap SDC that would be a chance to try them out. I don't usually even consider condensers under 200 but Oktava has changed my mind a bit. This is a whole other kind of cheap though. 

The MK219 is a crazy good mic for the price and the 012 is certainly a go-to in many studios but the Pearls, damn man, take a look at this comparison. The pearls like most isk mics have flat, natural response allowing you to do just about anything to them you want with preamp choice or plugins. They're not fussy.

Now I must admit that as far as SDCs go, I have a couple of Behringer C2 sets and that's all I keep on me but I've used much more expensive options and while I think the C2s are good ($30 for a matched pair) the Pearls have to be one of the best mics available sub-$100. 

I think the best mics in each category sub-100 probably have to be the MB75 (SM57 clone that sounds as good if not better than the original for $30), isk Pearl and then I'd stretch it a little to allow the 3U Audio C1 ($116). There is very little you couldn't record with a combination of those mics. They're all good mics even forgetting about the price, but at that price.... Damn.....

[Derkoli]

1 hour ago, Hasbrouck said:

Have you tried an older SM81 for comparison with the P4 that's always been my go to on harsher instruments and strings. Mine sound very warm compared to every other SDC I've used. 

For harsh stuff I tend to use my Rode NTR Ribbon, it's my favourite mic right now for a few reasons. Good SPL handling, not as fragile as other ribbons, pretty warm/smooth sounding. Also has a built in gain stage, so I don't need to throw a pre' in-line with it.

 

Only problem is the fact that it seems to be upside down compared to me. Weird.

[StrudelMan]

Id add the tc-helicon GoXLR to the interface list. Comes with MIDAS preamps, good enough for a sm7b. Two versions, mini, and full size. both drive sm7b with 50db gain fine. Basically the only option for streaming, and comes included with dsp.

[The Flying Sloth]

5 hours ago, Derkoli said:

Only problem is the fact that it seems to be upside down compared to me. Weird.

STRAYA!

 

3 hours ago, StrudelMan said:

Id add the tc-helicon GoXLR to the interface list. Comes with MIDAS preamps, good enough for a sm7b. Two versions, mini, and full size. both drive sm7b with 50db gain fine. Basically the only option for streaming, and comes included with dsp.

While I appreciate the contribution the GoXlr will not be added as it is essentially an audio interface with some macros and a jacked up price tag. The same results can be replicated for a much lower cost simply by using an inline preamp for the mic and using onboard VST hosting software.

 

I'll elaborate when I get more time if that would be helpful for you.

[StrudelMan]

On 7/16/2020 at 9:30 PM, The Flying Sloth said:

STRAYA!

 

While I appreciate the contribution the GoXlr will not be added as it is essentially an audio interface with some macros and a jacked up price tag. The same results can be replicated for a much lower cost simply by using an inline preamp for the mic and using onboard VST hosting software.

 

I'll elaborate when I get more time if that would be helpful for you.

the audio routing features and support for 2 pc streaming cannot be replicated (at least easily), and the multiple windows audio devices is a feature that starts at $500 for stereo pairs in some mixers, which is much more expensive than the $250 goxlr mini. at that price it is basically equivalent to a decent interface with a inline preamp, but with more features and convenience. However it really only makes sense for streamers. 

[The Flying Sloth]

2 hours ago, StrudelMan said:

the audio routing features and support for 2 pc streaming cannot be replicated (at least easily), and the multiple windows audio devices is a feature that starts at $500 for stereo pairs in some mixers, which is much more expensive than the $250 goxlr mini. at that price it is basically equivalent to a decent interface with a inline preamp, but with more features and convenience. However it really only makes sense for streamers. 

There are multiple outputs on even $70 interfaces that can do what the GoXLR does with regards to multiple PC streaming, as for multiple audio devices, I can't find any references to what you mean online but if you mean that you can use any number of audio devices, well, yeah, you can always do that. 

To me it still sounds like it's a UMC202HD with only one input, no balanced outputs, an inline preamp and some macros, that's an extra $150+ for the 'convenience' of not having to buy real studio grade gear that will likely last you far longer than the consumer GoXLR. I understand it's a convenient solution for some streamers but my recommendation list is based on valu for money and this just doesn't provide enough of something special in the market for me to justify its addition to have it compete closely with the UMC1820 pricewise.

[StrudelMan]

On 7/21/2020 at 1:44 PM, The Flying Sloth said:

There are multiple outputs on even $70 interfaces that can do what the GoXLR does with regards to multiple PC streaming, as for multiple audio devices, I can't find any references to what you mean online but if you mean that you can use any number of audio devices, well, yeah, you can always do that. 

To me it still sounds like it's a UMC202HD with only one input, no balanced outputs, an inline preamp and some macros, that's an extra $150+ for the 'convenience' of not having to buy real studio grade gear that will likely last you far longer than the consumer GoXLR. I understand it's a convenient solution for some streamers but my recommendation list is based on valu for money and this just doesn't provide enough of something special in the market for me to justify its addition to have it compete closely with the UMC1820 pricewise.

What I mean is that it creates multiple (5-10 ish) seperate audio devices in windows. This lets you individually control the volume of applications (with the hardware faders) and output to multiple different sources. On a typical stream, you will have Spotify for music, Discord for voice chat/comms, a browser for alerts and whatnot, and game audio. This lets you create a "chat" output (which just feeds the mic output), a "stream" output which feeds mic, music, comms, game, and browser, and a "headphone" output, which feeds comms, browser, game, music, (and mic if you want to monitor that way). This is two core functions, individually controling the volume of applications, and audio mixing and routing. Whilst the windows voulme panel lets you control the volume of applications individually, its not really something you can do on the fly, and is a lot harder (and on the fly is important bc games have different volumes and so forth). And the mixing and routing is something that can be accomplished with voicemeeter, the goxlr works much better

(doesn't drop out randomly, actually makes sense to use (coming from a professional SideFX Houdini user), and just works), and doesnt use extra resources of the computer, which happens to be a big deal (obviously a "proper" mixer doesn't really work for mixing different software audio outputs). I would like to repeat that the GoXLR was never intended for people who are not streaming. Only having one audio input is fine for 99% of streamers (and there will be a two input version soon (tm)). When streaming, convenience is a huge deal, as you already have to balance playing a game well, interacting with chat, and generally being entertaining. The Elgato Streamdeck's functionality can be replicated with keyboard shortcuts, and Auto Hotkey scripts for the multi-action component, but getting a streamdeck completely changes the game. Just pushing a button instead of pressing Ctrl+Shift+S, for instance, is huge. And while VST plugins will sound better than the GoXLR, again not having to deal with a vst host, or additional overhead from OBS (on top of the regular overhead) is huge. And ofc the goxlr support asio, so you can record the raw audio for "proper" editing later. For streamers (although not for many other ppl), the goxlr is basically the only option.

[The Flying Sloth]

Let's break this down a bit.

28 minutes ago, StrudelMan said:

What I mean is that it creates multiple (5-10 ish) seperate audio devices in windows

Okay, so does every interface with multiple outputs and inputs.... This isn't special,

29 minutes ago, StrudelMan said:

This is two core functions, individually controling the volume of applications, and audio mixing and routing.

Yes, and it's also why streamers use voicemeeter...... or just control the routing through OBS itself. This isn't something special.
Voicemeeter doesn't drop out randomly and makes perfect sense to use if you set it up properly, I just dislike it because I have hardware solutions, speaking of hardware solutions you could also substitute the GoXLR for a mixing desk and retain all (literally all except perhaps effects depending on the board and even then VST) the functionality while not relying on consumer hardware that (likely) won't last.

33 minutes ago, StrudelMan said:

Only having one audio input is fine for 99% of streamers (and there will be a two input version soon

Well yeah, it's just that differentiating your stream from that 99% is most often accomplished with instruments which requires more inputs, so if you're happy to just stream to nobody of course one input is fine but if you want flexibility and points of difference from other low level streamers more is certainly better, besides, at the price mixers and interfaces with more inputs are clearly a better choice. 

 

37 minutes ago, StrudelMan said:

The Elgato Streamdeck's functionality can be replicated with keyboard shortcuts, and Auto Hotkey scripts for the multi-action component, but getting a streamdeck completely changes the game.

I agree, sometimes convenience is worth it, but this isn't a recommended gear list for streamers, it's a recommended audio gear list so the Streamdeck isn't going to make the list either.

42 minutes ago, StrudelMan said:

not having to deal with a vst host, or additional overhead from OBS (on top of the regular overhead) is huge

Modern CPUs aren't even close to being fully utilised in most games, videogames are still GPU bound for the most part and you can afford to give up some CPU cycles so it's not huge, in fact, it's not even small.

44 minutes ago, StrudelMan said:

And ofc the goxlr support asio, so you can record the raw audio for "proper" editing later.

Yes, so does every interface and many mixers, besides, ASIO really is just about latency so unless you're tracking audio on it it really doesn't matter...

25 minutes ago, StrudelMan said:

For streamers (although not for many other ppl), the goxlr is basically the only option.

Well, no, you just made my point for me, it can all be handled with macros at a much lower price and much higher quality, again, I'm not saying it isn't a useful AIO solution for some who don't have the technical ability to set something up themselves (or would rather just buy an AIO solution) but it just isn't anything special for the money and given that my gear recommendations are based on value for money I can't justify including it. As for being the only option, not even close, Rodecaster Pro, MiNiSTUDIO CREATOR US-42 Oh, and literally every USB mixer too......

Because of the fact that this is a value oriented audio gear list and not a 'gear streamers might find useful' list the GoXLR will not be added, it's fairly obvious that it might be useful to some streamers but it's also obvious that the value just isn't there compared to other options in a similar price range (that also didn't make the list) like the Tascam Model 12, Presonus StudioLive AR16c, Alto Live 2404, Zoom LiveTrak L-12 and even the directly competing Rodecaster Pro.