BAFTA Adds 'Diversity' Requirement which must be filled in order to Qualify for an Award

[Beerzerker]

To be clear - That wasn't directed at the community here, it was "In general" as to the overall populace.

[Vishera]

Just now, Beerzerker said:

To be clear - That wasn't directed at the community here, it was "In general" as to the overall populace.

Yeah i know that,i didn't mean to cause a misunderstanding 

[Suika]

5 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

If you don't push back for your right to make a game, tell a story, write a song or so on the way you want, this is what you'll get in the end.

This is such a confusing argument because no such "right" is being impeded here. The market will dictate what games are made, how good they are, and if they're best sellers, not this group of troglodytes believing they're doing something good.

 

11 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Unfortunately there are enough fools out there to go along with this to make it as such - That being the worst part of it.

There really aren't, a lot of this sort of aggressive pandering comes from groups in power that are extraordinarily out of touch, not because there's a real push for radical, excessive change. The ultimate goal is to normalize these minority groups and create a safer environment for all of those involved, not create further tension, so BAFTA has done more harm than good given some of the posts in this thread.

[Thaldor]

53 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Those count as non major facts,as long as those weapons were in the war it's fine,and about the super solider thing that's the point of a fast action FPS game.

But how historically accurate it is? And was it meant to be historically accurate?

We have games that are hardcore historically accurate, we have simulation games that go to extreme lengths to be accurate in that but IMO BF isn't either and thinking it would be... Well, we could just as well argue that Inglorious Basterds is historically accurate. IMO at the point when the player is running Normandy at the speed of Usain Bolt and taking 10 hits from an MG without even bleeding (let alone falling to the ground crying without a limb and being busy dying) and generally WW1/2 is depicted as "fast action FPS", you can throw in a lot of artistic freedoms and whatever without harming the historical accuracy a much.

Can you make historically accurate fast action FPS based on WWs? Totally, I would even be ready to pay for one that gave the feeling of the real fast action of charging the no man's land or the story was about the WW2 commandos (you could actually get away with the super humans here). Make a game about French resistance or the Detachment Törni or at least something that half of the people doesn't know was more or less people crawling from one cover to other rather than running and jumping all around barrels glowing red.

 

And for the record: I'm so much against this BAFTA shit. Future AAA and why not even indie games that want to be appreciated with no-value stamps will be focusing on making a game that has a possibility to win an award than focusing to make a great game. If I must something positive to say about this, it is that in the future it's probably much easier to know which games aren't worth playing because they are more or less fruitsalads trying to please every old-lady with a flower in their hat and especially every professional offender who don't even get offended because someone is hurting them but are offended because someone may hurt someone else (I have extremely dark sense of humor as do my friends and we may call each other with extremely personal and offending nicknames just because we think it's fun and usually those who get offended from the N word or fat or anything like them are those who have nothing to do with them).

[Vishera]

12 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

But how historically accurate it is? And was it meant to be historically accurate?

If you want the most historically accurate games - Battlefield is not that,but at least they retain some historical accuracy.

12 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

IMO at the point when the player is running Normandy at the speed of Usain Bolt and taking 10 hits from an MG without even bleeding

True,but i can't stop laughing 

12 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Can you make historically accurate fast action FPS based on WWs? Totally, I would even be ready to pay for one that gave the feeling of the real fast action of charging the no man's land or the story was about the WW2 commandos (you could actually get away with the super humans here). Make a game about French resistance or the Detachment Törni or at least something that half of the people doesn't know was more or less people crawling from one cover to other rather than running and jumping all around barrels glowing red.

They should hire you,your ideas are better than anything they have done.

 

When you talk about WW2 commandos,do you mean something like the original Call of Duty Black Ops style of gameplay?

It was basically one commando mission after another.

[JZStudios]

4 hours ago, Nowak said:

"We did it, fellas! Our performative action ended racism!"

 

ftr, nobody thinks rockstar's meaningless gesture actually helped, because it's, as I said, meaningless.

Do you... understand jokes?

4 hours ago, Nowak said:

And I'm sure Battlefield 1 was a realistic depiction of World War 1. Hey tho, keep trying to find agendas that don't exist outside of what a lib who got, like, 3 retweets on Twitter thinks is "helping".

BF1 didn't replace a team of 6 Finnish men with a 15 year old girl. It's a really simple concept to understand. Otherwise BF1 had the Harlem Hellfighters (which existed) and a campaign set around a female sniper in Arabia doing recon missions. They weren't disabled cyborgs fighting on the front lines, and literally no one said shit about it. Outside of using rare or prototype weapons, it was mostly semi-accurate and showed smaller, lesser known battles. BFV forced in women and racism, where in reality they didn't exist, and then they called the fans uneducated.

Let's also not pretend like there hasn't been a bunch of fucking random gay or trans characters in games recently. And I'd very much argue that requiring a diversity quota to be an agenda.

 

4 hours ago, Vishera said:

They chose that diversity,but i actually don't have a problem with them implementing women in the front lines,even if it's historically inaccurate.

The history lovers might get offended though,not for sexist reasons,but because it violates the historic accuracy.

 

They will have to implement African born Mongolians into that game 

Japan be like: "Nani?!,The Africans are invading!"

Mongolia: "We are Mongolians"

Japan: "Nani?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!"

When I saw the first trailer for BFV my initial thought was legitimately "Oh cool, an alt-history Steampunk WW2 type thing." Then they were like, "No, it's a serious hardcore realistic WW2 type thing."

I really think they should've just gone full steampunk, then they could have the "era" and do whatever the fuck they want.

 

I don't think at that time the Japanese even knew what Africans were.

 

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

Trying to suggest that WW1 had no women in it, means that the person making that statement doesn't know jack about history.

Literally no one said that, and BF1 had a campaign based around a woman and no one complained. This entire rant of yours is based around an argument no one made.

Though I will counter your "Lack of forced diversity" with Neil Druckmann literally saying he will be forcing diversity in games and cherry picking employees and actors that are "minorities" of some form.

3 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

Gee, awful people going after the developers and voice actors.

Those exact same comments got directed at the guy and his wife that made the indie game Ooblets simply because they took Epic money to release on EGS and they told people about it. Think about the fact that a game that no one has heard of, got death threats, simply because they decided to launch on a platform they didn't like.

 

3 hours ago, comander said:

THIS IS NOT DIVERSE ENOUGH

 

It's been a joke for a long time, but the Asian is yellow, the black is black, the girl is pink, and the "Native" is red. Why Power Rangers never got cancelled is beyond me. Maybe they're just too confused about whether or not it's okay.

 

3 hours ago, Nowak said:

I'm sure it makes the history nerds mad, to the point where they go to Reddit and lie about credentials to get easy Gamer Points, but the truth is most people don't give a shit. Battlefield V still sold millions of copies (even if it was below EA's lofty expectations) and people still had fun with it even with its myriad of technical flaws and shortcomings. The Last of Us 2 was derided as "SJW shit" or "20 hours of misery porn" depending on who you asked, but it's still flying off shelves. People called for boycotting Pokemon Sword and Shield over the National Dex, but it still sold 16 million copies.

BFV was on sale 50% off after like what? 2 weeks after launch? It sold terribly, even compared to the previous titles and EA/DICE just straight killed support for the game. I wouldn't call that a success.

TLOU2 sales were initially strong, but it's dropping like a rock now. And for the record, after watching lots of reviews, positive and negative, they all agree it's basically 20 hours of misery porn. Ironically, forced diversity was the least of it's problems.

[Kisai]

1 minute ago, JZStudios said:

 

 

Literally no one said that, and BF1 had a campaign based around a woman and no one complained. This entire rant of yours is based around an argument no one made.

Nay, I said it the worst people on the internet are the ones that complain about this kind of thing and expect to get their way.

 

Your average nerd on the internet knows better, and sometimes they just barf into the internet and hit someone. Dog-piling is something that only people who don't know what they are fighting for, do.

1 minute ago, JZStudios said:

Though I will counter your "Lack of forced diversity" with Neil Druckmann literally saying he will be forcing diversity in games and cherry picking employees and actors that are "minorities" of some form.

And that worked? And he got flack for it? And the VA got death threats. If that's what he wants to do, what makes anyone think he won't double down on it?

 

1 minute ago, JZStudios said:

 

Those exact same comments got directed at the guy and his wife that made the indie game Ooblets simply because they took Epic money to release on EGS and they told people about it. Think about the fact that a game that no one has heard of, got death threats, simply because they decided to launch on a platform they didn't like.

 

 

Because the same worst people on the internet think that death threats and doxxing will force a developer to change their mind. For every indie that makes a choice that benefits only themselves, there's another developer who is begging for the same offer to be published. Obviously someone was upset with it, and the only right thing to do is report death threats to the law enforcement. Not that they will do anything.

 

When someone threatens you, like actual death threats, and you know they have the means to, by living in the same country, you take it seriously as though they were your next-door neighbor, because even if you think it's a joke, it was not a joke. They somehow thought that trying to silence you with death threats would get their way. The United States may be big, but guns are easily accessible, so yeah, always consider a death threat to be serious.

[JZStudios]

2 hours ago, Arika S said:

Guess that means games like Beat Saber can no longer get nominated at the BAFTAs, no diversity.

The Neptunia games...cast is 100% female, not diverse enough.

Any racing sim? BA, they're all cars, not diverse enough

barely any JRPGs will ever get nominated because the east does not go rabid for more diversity and representation, they just don't care. most of them have an imbalance of gender. it's never 50/50.

Yeah, but the fact that JRPGs are made by Asians... being a minority in the West I guess, makes it eligible. Same with Neptunia. It's made by Japs and has a focus on "Under represented groups" being girls.

 

1 hour ago, Thaldor said:

But how historically accurate it is? And was it meant to be historically accurate?

We have games that are hardcore historically accurate, we have simulation games that go to extreme lengths to be accurate in that but IMO BF isn't either and thinking it would be... Well, we could just as well argue that Inglorious Basterds is historically accurate.

Question, is Girls Und Panzer historically accurate? Is it Bafta approved? (For the record, this is literally the only part of the show I've seen after reading about it in a SuperBunnyhop comment.)

 

[Hassan170]

Cue SJW victory screech 

 

on a serious note these SJWs seem to forget that racism means "unequal treatment / discrimination against a race of people" most people think of the negative connotations when they hear the word "racism". However most people don't realize that treating a race in a superior fashion BASED on their race is still racism. Many people find it hard to understand this / find a problem with it as "how is it a problem if i'm treating them better" the problem is that your respect for the minority is not genuine. You are doing it simply because you do not want to be called a racist. This can partly be blamed on cancel culture (or as i know it, cancer culture).

[JZStudios]

1 minute ago, Kisai said:

Nay, I said it the worst people on the internet are the ones that complain about this kind of thing and expect to get their way.

 

Your average nerd on the internet knows better, and sometimes they just barf into the internet and hit someone. Dog-piling is something that only people who don't know what they are fighting for, do.

I don't know what correlation this has to anything. Who dog piled? We were talking about BFV, then he mentioned BF1, then you argued about something no one said.

3 minutes ago, Kisai said:

And that worked? And he got flack for it? And the VA got death threats. If that's what he wants to do, what makes anyone think he won't double down on it?

It was his choice. He put out tweets before the game launched of people saying they don't like forced diversity, then he said they're bigots and therefore he was going to force more diversity. Why he's suddenly shocked and amazed that people don't like it comes off as him being really fucking stupid, or crying for attention. I'm not saying death threats are justified, but being amazed people don't like your shit when you specifically made it so that people won't like your shit is like 3 year old levels of stupid.

As to the voice actor, yeah, she doesn't deserve it. Her character fucking sucked, but that's not her fault. Point being, the VA gets sympathy. She was just doing her job. Druckmann knew what he was putting himself in and now seeks sympathy, which he won't find.

9 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Because the same worst people on the internet think that death threats and doxxing will force a developer to change their mind.

I don't really know where this is going. It's off topic. The point was just that people hand out death threats like candy on Halloween. It's not of any use to show things one way or another when anyone with an opinion gets them.

[Nowak]

4 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Do you... understand jokes?

 

Lemme poke fun at a tone deaf corporation too!

 

5 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Outside of using rare or prototype weapons, it was mostly semi-accurate and showed smaller, lesser known battles.

BF1 also didn't have trench warfare and everyone ran around with auto guns. If you want realism and historical accuracy, try Verdun, because uhhhh Battlefield is neither.

 

6 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Let's also not pretend like there hasn't been a bunch of fucking random gay or trans characters in games recently.

I don't see the problem, but I'm a random gay guy myself. Probably because there is none, and if you find that it is then that's a "you" problem.

 

13 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

BFV was on sale 50% off after like what? 2 weeks after launch? It sold terribly, even compared to the previous titles and EA/DICE just straight killed support for the game. I wouldn't call that a success.

Probably because it failed to meet EA's lofty expectations. It's still sold 7.3m copies in 2018, which isn't really a failure either, considering it was a November 2018 release. By the way, didja know that EA's CEO Andrew Wilson blamed its "sales failure" on a lack of a battle royale mode? Like... really?

[Kisai]

6 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

It was his choice. He put out tweets before the game launched of people saying they don't like forced diversity, then he said they're bigots and therefore he was going to force more diversity. Why he's suddenly shocked and amazed that people don't like it comes off as him being really fucking stupid, or crying for attention. I'm not saying death threats are justified, but being amazed people don't like your shit when you specifically made it so that people won't like your shit is like 3 year old levels of stupid.

 

You seem to think that he was wrong for doing so. Maybe he went about it the wrong way by engaging in social media in the profoundly stupid way trolls do, but nobody "earned" threats. Threats are handed out by people who are mentally unhinged and dangerous.

[JZStudios]

Just now, Nowak said:

BF1 also didn't have trench warfare and everyone ran around with auto guns. If you want realism and historical accuracy, try Verdun, because uhhhh Battlefield is neither.

Ehh, true, but I was also talking about the campaign, though no one gives a shit about BF campaigns. It starts in the trenches. The campaign was relatively realistic in scenario.

 

2 minutes ago, Nowak said:

I don't see the problem, but I'm a random gay guy myself. Probably because there is none, and if you find that it is then that's a "you" problem.

It really depends on the implementation. A Night in the Woods has a gay couple, whatever. Divinity Original Sin 2 I accidentally had gay sex with a skeleton. Luckily it was just one of those black screen scenes. Assassins Creed trying to force gay sex (Or regular sex) at every possible opportunity I'm not a fan of. Mass Effect Andromeda having an NPC that greets you with "Hi, I'm a trans, and I came here on this trans-galactic voyage so I could be a man" is like... slap you in the face forced.

 

If it's a character who is gay, that's one thing. If it's a gay character for no reason, it's annoying. When I did uhh... it's a weird job title. I helped "Persons with disabilities" and you were told to say that because it puts the "person" first. Personally I think it's rather pedantic, but when I see a character and the only real known thing about them is LESBIAN instead of something like A Night in the Woods with characters who are gay on the sidelines, it's forced and annoying. There's a portion of gays that also agree and it just feels like pandering. Being gay shouldn't be your identity or your personality. These characters that are just gay for being gay is forced.

9 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Probably because it failed to meet EA's lofty expectations. It's still sold 7.3m copies in 2018, which isn't really a failure either, considering it was a November 2018 release. By the way, didja know that EA's CEO Andrew Wilson blamed its "sales failure" on a lack of a battle royale mode? Like... really?

Again, it did poorly compared to previous titles. It also dropped the playerbase really quick.

It... has a battle royale mode that failed hard and they never updated it?

[JZStudios]

4 minutes ago, Kisai said:

You seem to think that he was wrong for doing so. Maybe he went about it the wrong way by engaging in social media in the profoundly stupid way trolls do, but nobody "earned" threats. Threats are handed out by people who are mentally unhinged and dangerous.

Again, I explicitly stated otherwise. He's also upset that people don't like the game. Delete all the threats entirely and he's still upset and surprised that people don't like it.

[Vishera]

11 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Lemme poke fun at a tone deaf corporation too!

 

Tone deaf?,Oh please...

THEY FRICKING OUT THERE IN A DIFFERENT WORLD CHASING ALIENS!

DAMN ALIENS FART MONEY ON THEM FACES

[Nowak]

5 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Ehh, true, but I was also talking about the campaign, though no one gives a shit about BF campaigns. It starts in the trenches. The campaign was relatively realistic in scenario.

Okay, I'll give you that. The campaign has a giant German war dirigible tho, which couldn't exist with the technology available in 1918.

 

7 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Divinity Original Sin 2 I accidentally had gay sex with a skeleton.

Sounds like the opposite of a bad time ifyacatchmydrift.

 

10 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Mass Effect Andromeda having an NPC that greets you with "Hi, I'm a trans, and I came here on this trans-galactic voyage so I could be a man" is like... slap you in the face forced.

I mean... that sounds like something trans people do sometimes? Whether or not it's morally right tho is a whole canna worms tho, because if you come from a rich country (USA) and go to a poorer country (Thailand) for cheaper HRT then that can count as exploitation.

 

13 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

It... has a battle royale mode that failed hard and they never updated it?

Yeah, and they also announced it at E3? And it was at a time when people were kinda tired of battle royales because there were so many games trying to chase PUBG's success? Makes no fucking sense.

[AldiPrayogi]

Ladies and gentlemen, we did it. Racism and sexism is no more.

[Beerzerker]

2 hours ago, Suika said:

1: This is such a confusing argument because no such "right" is being impeded here. The market will dictate what games are made, how good they are, and if they're best sellers, not this group of troglodytes believing they're doing something good.

 

2: There really aren't, a lot of this sort of aggressive pandering comes from groups in power that are extraordinarily out of touch, not because there's a real push for radical, excessive change. The ultimate goal is to normalize these minority groups and create a safer environment for all of those involved, not create further tension, so BAFTA has done more harm than good given some of the posts in this thread.

Have to disagree with some of this.

To point 1 in the quote:
The first part I didn't bold is true right now, you can do as you want but I'm referring to later with that as in what it could become.
If and when such "Control" comes to be you can bet even if you still do it as you want, there could (Note the context here) be a form of punishment if you don't conform, that's the danger of it and amounts to censorship. If you don't make things the way these so-called guidelines call for you can and probrably would be excluded from things like awards and so on.

I've seen arguements about censorship here time and time again and this has potential to be just that.

 

To the part I did bold in point 1:

I mean I agree, the market itself will determine the final success or failure of anything but the power of media (Reviews) has weight behind it and has real potential to influence the success of anything related.

That's one reality that can't be denied and hey, there are MANY examples of it here too about different things (PC/Laptop related), just not this.

 

Doesn't matter if it's honestly viewed as good or not, if someone associated with these "Guidelines" wants to "Punish" a game developer, song writer or anything, it could be done to "Enforce" these guidelines if you don't play along.

Although it's not written in stone it's about the danger in it becoming something along those lines and making sure this possibility is at least recognized.

If you don't look ahead at what something could mean, no need to complain if and when it bites your ass, esp if you're one of those directly affected by it. 

Nothing confusing about that.

 

To point 2:
I'll be honest here, I don't know what the ultimate goal they have in mind is and frankly you don't either unless you happen to be one of them - Only they know the absolute truth regardless of what they would say publicly about it.

When you say safer enviroment that could mean alot of different things from being more friendly towards a certain group to cartoon characters not whacking themselves around so much.....

While some may think Elmer and Yosemite Sam was "Violent", I'd have to say Wile-E-Coyote was just obsessive/suicidal.

And even though I watched all that growing up it never induced an urge or need to do such for me and I can't name anyone it ever did that to either.
I mean no one - Anywhere - Ever. 

 

It's really nothing about what they say, it's everything about what they do or at least (With this ATM) could do.
 

To sum it up:

The time to say "Hold up a sec - What's up with that" is now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW if you don't like what you're seeing - Turn the channel, change disks, watch a different stream or just turn the damn thing off.
You do have ultimate control over it.

[Kisai]

16 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

Have to disagree with some of this.

To point 1 in the quote:
The first part I didn't bold is true right now, you can do as you want but I'm referring to later with that as in what it could become.
If and when such "Control" comes to be you can bet even if you still do it as you want, there could (Note the context here) be a form of punishment if you don't conform, that's the danger of it and amounts to censorship. If you don't make things the way these so-called guidelines call for you can and probrably would be excluded from things like awards and so on.

I've seen arguements about censorship here time and time again and this has potential to be just that.

 

It's not censorship, it's award bait. There's a difference in context. Let's say today BAFTA does it, and tomorrow Steam and EGS decide that they will bubble up games that receive "AWARD WINNER", that has a definite impact on sales of the game, and is punitive to games that do not win awards. You can see this kind of thing with "New York Times Best Sellers", because most of the best sellers are really people directly connected to the book, buying/pre-ordering the necessary quantity be considered a best seller. This is why you rarely ever see these best sellers actually on shelves. Seems awfully suspicious how something can be a best seller the first week of it's release when nobody has it.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

To the part I did bold in point 1:

I mean I agree, the market itself will determine the final success or failure of anything but the power of media (Reviews) has weight behind it and has real potential to influence the success of anything related.

That's one reality that can't be denied and hey, there are MANY examples of it here too about different things (PC/Laptop related), just not this.

 

Doesn't matter if it's honestly viewed as good or not, if someone associated with these "Guidelines" wants to "Punish" a game developer, song writer or anything, it could be done to "Enforce" these guidelines if you don't play along.

Although it's not written in stone it's about the danger in it becoming something along those lines and making sure this possibility is at least recognized.

If you don't look ahead at what something could mean, no need to complain if and when it bites your ass, esp if you're one of those directly affected by it. 

Nothing confusing about that.

The real danger comes from companies like EA and Activision deciding that they want to win awards, but only need to do the barest, minimal amount of effort to qualify. Let's assume the awards are actually weighted and not actually "wow this game has 50% women, automatic qualification", a game that hits 4/7 criteria might win an award where one that only hits 2/7 doesn't, and the only difference is that the 4/7 actually made every second character encountered a woman, where as the 2/7 made every second character a "sexy lamp".

 

That's not censorship or pandering, its a performative gesture, and it's the same kind of performative gesture you see when a brand jumps into the woke business, while having a history of being a terrible brand, right up to that moment. EA is a terrible brand, I don't care what performative gesture they do, nothing they do will make me think they're not scummy except resurrecting 2008 Maxis.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

To point 2:
I'll be honest here, I don't know what the ultimate goal they have in mind is and frankly you don't either unless you happen to be one of them - Only they know the absolute truth regardless of what they would say publicly about it.

When you say safer enviroment that could mean alot of different things from being more friendly towards a certain group to cartoon characters not whacking themselves around so much.....

While some may think Elmer and Yosemite Sam was "Violent", I'd have to say Wile-E-Coyote was just obsessive/suicidal.

And even though I watched all that growing up it never induced an urge or need to do such for me and I can't name anyone it ever did that to either.
I mean no one - Anywhere - Ever. 

 

It's really nothing about what they say, it's everything about what they do or at least (With this ATM) could do.
 

To sum it up:

The time to say "Hold up a sec - What's up with that" is now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW if you don't like what you're seeing - Turn the channel, change disks, watch a different stream or just turn the damn thing off.
You do have ultimate control over it.

The goal with diversity is to normalize things that people don't really understand. Violent video games normalize violence activities, but it doesn't tell people to go out and commit murder. Women, GLBT, BIPOC and whatever else inclusiveness is not going to make you gay. If you don't like the option, you don't have to pick that option, and if the game is forcing you to pick that option, you probably didn't pick the right game. 

 

To which, people complaining about gay and trans characters in a game. That's not you. If gay people have to endure unflattering straight sexy moments in a video game, you can endure unflattering gay moments in a video game. Get over it. If the developer believes this will enhance sales, they will put more in next time.  It works for film, maybe it works for games.

 

But on the other hand, you have to be a lot more careful where you choose to put GLBT & BIPOC content. You can't simply take one game, film, comic, cartoon or whatever and then give it a new coat of paint and not expect backlash for it. People are not stupid, and will see a "repaint" of an old property for what it is. If you're going to invest in rebooting an IP, you have to recreate everything so that narrative makes sense, not just ticks boxes on a diversity bingo.

[suicidalfranco]

5 hours ago, comander said:

THIS IS NOT DIVERSE ENOUGH

 

didn't Austin, red ranger, become a gay porn actor? that sounds diverse to me

[Trik'Stari]

10 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Technical limitations and bugs don't really detract from historical accuracy.

 

Nu-uh! Rockstar shutting off GTAV online for like 2 hours to fight racism totally helped! Because of black people I couldn't play my game!

 

But it's inclusive discrimination and racism. After all, why be rewarded on merits when you can just be praised for breathing? Unless you're white. Then you can fuck off and die.

 

Lesbians and gays are the same basically, bi is half gay, and trans is a whole can of worms, but typically still gay.

 

It's important to note that no one is required to meet these criteria to sell a game. If they don't they just simply won't be in the BAFTA running. There's other game awards.

Though I do question something like Ghost of Tsushima. I guess it's set in Japan so it might have Asian "minorities" (Despite being the majority globally) but it's not like the Mongolian invasion had tons of queers or other diversities around.

Honestly, the governments should go after organizations that do this kind of shit for discrimination.

 

Because that's what it is, no matter what arguments they make. They are making conscious decisions based on intrinsic physical properties rather than merit.

[Beerzerker]

4 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

1: It's not censorship, it's award bait.

 

2: Let's say today BAFTA does it, and tomorrow Steam and EGS decide that they will bubble up games that receive "AWARD WINNER", that has a definite impact on sales of the game, and is punitive to games that do not win awards. You can see this kind of thing with "New York Times Best Sellers", because most of the best sellers are really people directly connected to the book, buying/pre-ordering the necessary quantity be considered a best seller. This is why you rarely ever see these best sellers actually on shelves. Seems awfully suspicious how something can be a best seller the first week of it's release when nobody has it.

 

 

The real danger comes from companies like EA and Activision deciding that they want to win awards, but only need to do the barest, minimal amount of effort to qualify. Let's assume the awards are actually weighted and not actually "wow this game has 50% women, automatic qualification", a game that hits 4/7 criteria might win an award where one that only hits 2/7 doesn't, and the only difference is that the 4/7 actually made every second character encountered a woman, where as the 2/7 made every second character a "sexy lamp".

 

3: That's not censorship or pandering, its a performative gesture, and it's the same kind of performative gesture you see when a brand jumps into the woke business, while having a history of being a terrible brand, right up to that moment. EA is a terrible brand, I don't care what performative gesture they do, nothing they do will make me think they're not scummy except resurrecting 2008 Maxis.

 

 

4: The goal with diversity is to normalize things that people don't really understand. Violent video games normalize violence activities, but it doesn't tell people to go out and commit murder. Women, GLBT, BIPOC and whatever else inclusiveness is not going to make you gay. If you don't like the option, you don't have to pick that option, and if the game is forcing you to pick that option, you probably didn't pick the right game. 

 

To which, people complaining about gay and trans characters in a game. That's not you. If gay people have to endure unflattering straight sexy moments in a video game, you can endure unflattering gay moments in a video game. Get over it. If the developer believes this will enhance sales, they will put more in next time.  It works for film, maybe it works for games.

 

5: You can't simply take one game, film, comic, cartoon or whatever and then give it a new coat of paint and not expect backlash for it. People are not stupid, and will see a "repaint" of an old property for what it is. If you're going to invest in rebooting an IP, you have to recreate everything so that narrative makes sense, not just ticks boxes on a diversity bingo.

 

To the point(s).

1: You certainly hit it with that but remember bait is always used with a trap or hook too. Getting baited into something is largely what it is, you said it better than I but it's still something that can go way wrong too as I was getting at.

 

2: That goes right to my mention of how the media can be used to either build up or knock down something. In the case you stated yeah, it is weird how something can be called "Great" when the ink hasn't dried on the pages yet but folks will see it printed on the cover somewhere and buy it just because it says that. It's alot like folks believing something spotted on the web. It was on the web so it has to be true..... Right?

Well - No.

 

3: As for performance gesturing as you suggest.... again it's like bait to nudge things the way they want and goes back to "What is a suggestion today is the standard tomorrow, becoming the requirement the day after" as I stated earlier.

 

Ever heard of past precident?

If it was done before it's a convenient excuse/reason to do it later BECAUSE it was done before.
Don't try to convince me someone out there woudn't try to use it if they think it wouldn't work.

Some do and will give it a go anyway
 

4: Normalizing things can also mean it's either viewed unfavorably when created or just in general, not that someone doesn't "Understand" it. Normalizing can also be viewed as "Desensitizing", or "Numbing " it too.

I do agree with the context you put it in, if the game as you said makes you have to do or choose something you don't like then maybe you bought the wrong game and that's certainly fair to say.

 

The problem I'm seeing is some of this could be incentive to try and "Convince " folks that normally woudn't like it that it's "OK" against what they know (To themselves at least) to be wrong vs right, pitting it against their moral compass.

Some folks have a strong sense of that, others just don't care and that's how it is.

 

On my part, I  will "Turn the channel, change disks, watch a different stream or just turn the damn thing off" as I said before if I see something I don't like and that's 100% up to me and even you when it comes down to it.

 

5: Now this is true, I have to say that straight up.

Folks aren't THAT dumb I'd hope, Ingorant or naieve... Maybe...  But not that dumb.

 

~ Guys, I'm gonna stick a fork in this, I'm done with it.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

Diversity for the sake of diversity is the lamest thing ever. 

[Suika]

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

The first part I didn't bold is true right now, you can do as you want but I'm referring to later with that as in what it could become.

Yes, some chimpanzees that haven't once spoken to people from minority groups dictating what does and doesn't get an award from a group that I had to Google to become familiar with will change censorship laws. I already know you're arguing slippery slope nonsense, so there's not much I can argue that could change your opinion, but the fact that the my only familiarity that use of logic is conservative christians arguing against gay marriage and trans right tells me it's probably not good.

 

Best case scenario, minority groups become normalized within the video game industry and people become significantly less hateful toward them. Worst case scenario, people begin arguing about strict diversity quotas and shift blame from idiots who should never be granted any level of power to those very minority groups that needed help and protection, and make the overall industry more hostile to them.

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

I've seen arguements about censorship here time and time again and this has potential to be just that.

People here tend to confuse freedom of speech and censorship with the right to say whatever the hell I want without consequence and the ability to be needlessly offensive, so I don't believe this forum is the best place to gauge such conversations.

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

I mean I agree, the market itself will determine the final success or failure of anything but the power of media (Reviews) has weight behind it and has real potential to influence the success of anything related.

This is an awards show, which means it has nothing to do with the power of individual reviews upon the launch of a title. Also, you're overstating how much influence they have in this industry to begin with. Maybe it's because I'm American, but I was completely unfamiliar with BAFTA until yesterday.

 

Nothing in this argument makes sense to me as it's all based on that bit of slippery slope logic that I only see white, christian mothers use to discredit social issues they hate.

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

I'll be honest here, I don't know what the ultimate goal they have in mind is and frankly you don't either unless you happen to be one of them - Only they know the absolute truth regardless of what they would say publicly about it.

BAFTA's ultimate goal? Public relations and excessive pandering. It's pretty clear, to be honest. If you think they have some sort of ulterior "agenda," then you're bordering on conspiracies that aren't worth the time of day.

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

When you say safer enviroment that could mean alot of different things from being more friendly towards a certain group to cartoon characters not whacking themselves around so much.....

At a basic level, it means women not getting harassed regularly, or being demeaned because they're a different gender from the majority of the industry. It means that if someone hosts a livestream and uses the LGBT+ tag, people don't come in to the chat specifically to start attacking the streamer and causing trouble. It means if a video game studio makes the artistic decision to create a trans or gay character, people don't instantly complain and attack the LGBT+ community for "poisoning" video games.

 

It also means not dismissing legitimate issues by comparing them to animated characters hitting each other too often.

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

While some may think Elmer and Yosemite Sam was "Violent", I'd have to say Wile-E-Coyote was just obsessive/suicidal.

I haven't heard a single person complain about the "violence" in Looney Tunes, only about some of the racist stuff the show had displayed (which Warner Brothers thoughtfully worked to fix with informative cards at the beginning of episodes, none of this "UH YEA LET'S JUST DELETE IT AND PRETEND IT NEVER HAPPENED" bs).

7 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

BTW if you don't like what you're seeing - Turn the channel, change disks, watch a different stream or just turn the damn thing off.

You do have ultimate control over it.

The problem with hateful, misinformative media is that, even if you ignore it, it still affects your life in other faucets, so sure, continue demeaning legitimate complaints.

 

Also there's a difference between edgy but funny jokes some people might not enjoy, and being hateful. If you can't tell the difference, there's a problem.

[Doobeedoo]

Haha BAFTA is a complete joke, who even took tgem seriously. They're more of an insult than anything else. Complience for the sake of it with "diversity badge" from devs inc now?! Imagine something like this org having any actual influence on games, pathetic. This is more a form of propaganda.