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Aereldor

Unpopular opinion(?) - People spend too much on gaming PCs

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Kilrah said:

Today yes, tomorrow probably not. And when it's not anymore most of the low end components are worthless.

 

I've lost enough money on upgrades when I was at the point where I had tight budgets and had to slowly move up the ladder (not necessarily with PC gear) to recommend going too low end. Better save a few months more and get mid-end that'll last instead of buying low end and after about as many months as you'd have waited have to replace and ditch the gear as pure loss because nobody wants to buy it from you.

People said this about the RX 470 in 2016 when it struggled to beat a 1050 ti. Look at it and the 570 now, competing with the 1650 super 4 years later. Not saying it'll live forever, but this card fucking lasted, thanks to AMD's incredible driver support.

I agree that technological advancement has increased greatly, the reason my 2015 rig held up was because of stagnant, iterative improvements (Haswell and Maxwell were 2014?) Ryzen/Polaris/Navi shook that up in a big way. 

Someone who knows the market and is looking at longevity, an upgrade path, the life of a platform, I would classify as an enthusiast. But someone who literally wants to know what's the minimum that needs to be spent to have a competent PC gaming experience with the user-friendly approach that retail hardware has over used, then this $400 combo is exactly that.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Statik said:

 it's their money, so who cares?

Hey man. Well, a lot of people seem to be defending the concept of human freedoms here. I'm not trying to control people and force them to buy cheaper/more expensive stuff. This was an expression of an opinion with my arguments to substantiate it, the first two words in the title are 'unpopular opinion', and given how the honourable computer enthusiasts have come out in force to strike me down, it was very unpopular indeed lol.
 

4 minutes ago, Statik said:

\Until last fall I was rocking a FX-8320, and GTX 770, and always believed "all you need is 30fps 1080p". But after upgrading to a 3800x + 2080 Super with a 3440x1440p monitor, I realized how massive the difference it is. Sure you can get by with a cheapo rig, but the experience is (IMHO) unparalleled. I noticed the difference between 1080p and 1440p the second I loaded into windows. I'm not saying it's the biggest bang for your buck, but anyone who claims the difference between a $400 build and a $2000 is barely noticeable is foolish. 

I didn't say it was barely noticeable. But is it 5 times better? I don't think so. It's not even twice as good, but it sure as hell is 5 times the price ($400 vs $2000 for the sake of argument). The more you spend - beyond a certain point - the more subtle the differences become. I think that point is $400 and not $800 in terms of experience, and $800 in terms of absolute numerical 'fps per dollar'

 

6 minutes ago, Statik said:

I don't think there should even be a debate on how much first time buyers should spend. If you can afford it, and you want to buy it, then buy it. People understand they can pinch pennies and still get a PC, but they willingly spend more money for a better gaming experience.

Well, I think there's a toxicity in this 'PC Master Race' culture that promulgates the false notion that a $400 PC is crap. It's not. Experience-wise, diminishing returns start there. Yes, people can spend more, people can do whatever the fuck they want, this is just my extremely unpopular opinion, that for gaming, diminishing returns for the experience begin a lot sooner than is purported. An $800 gaming PC is great. It's great value, I think the 3300x/3600 pair with a 5700/xt is probably the best value out there, I've recommended this to dozens of people. 

But I think if the bar for entry is that high - $800 - well, that's a problem that serves to drive newcomers away from PC gaming. $400 is about what you'd pay for a console.


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9 hours ago, Aereldor said:

 I honestly don't understand it.
My opinion's probably pretty skewed

"Bingo" and "Bingo"

 

lets substitute gaming with driving.

 

A car only needs to go as fast as the speed limits allow, and only need the space for the stuff you need to transport.

Yet theres people with huge pickups that can do 200mph, with massage chairs, wooden and gold or diamond dashboard  inlays and other stuff thats never "needed" or "performance per dollar", and all they do is cruise 1 day a weak at the spead limit for 30 minutes on a sunny day to pick up 2 bags of groceries.

 

Why? Because they can afford it, like the sound of the engine, love the smell of leather chairs, or whatever floats their boat. They tend to get a lot of enjoyment from the "unnecesary frills for only minor returns" or something like that. You dont get to decide "the bulk of enjoyment comes from just moving from a to b" for them.

 

A simple small modern sedan 2nd hand of a few years old can do the same job, is better bang for buck, and is a marvel of technology compared to cars 20 years ago. As you say, such a deal  "makes a compelling argument". Unless.... you can easily afford a new car with everything you just like even if you dont need it; without the budget as an argument anymore, just get what the frick one likes :). And maybe you dont like to accelerate quickly, but others do, let them have their fun and their own requirements set for their enjoyment,

 

Further down the thread you go on about circle jerking on expensive parts. So what? Maybe the overkill car owner described above attends car shows (organized circle jerk for that). If you dont want to see that, just move on to other threads about less expensive stuff and or lower performance targets.

 

Dont waste your time to rub your view of budgets, "what to enjoy", whats good enough, what needs to be justified on others - as you said, its a opinion, not a fact for just everone to accept. Here in the forum ive seen a lot of respect for any budget, from $1 up to thousands. For any budget mentioned in new builds and planning i see a ton of helpfull responses with parts lists, bang for buck info etc.

 

Never seen a "hey my budget is $400" or "csgo at 50fps is good enough" request be met with any kind of response claiming "you should spend 1500 more".

 

If the really helpfull people here respond with hints, tips, comparisons of components etc to get the most out of $400 of parts, why is that not a circle jerk but if the same happens with a $2000 budget it suddenly is?

 

 

Your not even really portraying a opinion, just a perspective. A homeless kid in a 3rd world country playing a game with a wooden stick and stone would have the "unpopular opinion" that $400 bucks to enjoy a game is $400 bucks overkill and represents a year of food ->Thats not a opinion, just a perspective based on poverty ;)

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

But I think if the bar for entry is that high - $800 - well, that's a problem that serves to drive newcomers away from PC gaming.

It's not that high in reality. It only is in your scenario because you're dismissing 2nd hand gear.


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Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB NVMe SSD RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Dell XPS 2 in 1 2019, 32GB, 1TB, 4K

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Kilrah said:

It's not that high. It only is in your scenario because you're dismissing 2nd hand gear.

I've build tons of PCs for around $100 with Dell optiplexes or Core 2 Quads from junkpiles. Building from used parts is extremely user unfriendly, and requires a significant amount of prior knowledge to get good deals on. Otherwise you have to keep asking on a forum to check if parts that become available around you are compatible, generally a pain in the ass. 

$400 will get you a very competent gaming PC, and save you that pain in the ass all at once.


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A $800-1000 gaming PC will easily be able to run modern AAA titles at 60+ fps 1080p for 5-6 years on high/ultra settings. I have a GTX 1070 and a Ryzen 5 1600x, and the only game I had to run on medium is RDR2. Everything else I can just crank up the graphics settings and rarely, if ever, see them dip below 60. 

 

Anything more expensive than that gives you only incremental gains, and only makes sense if you're really into competitive CS:GO and you need it to have a stable 144+ fps. 

 

A $400 PC would probably suck, but if you picked your components wisely you could make it easy to upgrade at a later date, or maybe not even have to upgrade if all you play is CS:GO, LoL, Valorant, etc. 


Ryzen 1600x @4GHz

Asus GTX 1070 8GB @1900MHz

16 GB HyperX DDR4 @3000MHz

Asus Prime X370 Pro

Samsung 860 EVO 500GB

Noctua NH-U14S

Seasonic M12II 620W

+ four different mechanical drives.

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30 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

I didn't say it was barely noticeable. But is it 5 times better? I don't think so. It's not even twice as good, but it sure as hell is 5 times the price ($400 vs $2000 for the sake of argument). The more you spend - beyond a certain point - the more subtle the differences become. I think that point is $400 and not $800 in terms of experience, and $800 in terms of absolute numerical 'fps per dollar'

PC's are never going to scale exactly like that. If a $500 PC gets you 30fps, a $1000 won't get you 60, etc. Like I said previously yes depending on how much you spend, and the components you choose you're going to get diminishing returns, but the point in which you get diminishing returns depends on plenty of factors (the games you play, the resolution you play at, the refresh rate you play at, etc.), so there's no one number in my opinion that is "the"  ideal price point. It's entirely subjective.

 

30 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Well, I think there's a toxicity in this 'PC Master Race' culture that promulgates the false notion that a $400 PC is crap. It's not. Experience-wise, diminishing returns start there. Yes, people can spend more, people can do whatever the fuck they want, this is just my extremely unpopular opinion, that for gaming, diminishing returns for the experience begin a lot sooner than is purported. An $800 gaming PC is great. It's great value, I think the 3300x/3600 pair with a 5700/xt is probably the best value out there, I've recommended this to dozens of people.

But I think if the bar for entry is that high - $800 - well, that's a problem that serves to drive newcomers away from PC gaming. $400 is about what you'd pay for a console.

I agree that the "PC Master Race" has toxic traits, but so does almost every community in every hobby. In my opinion, a $400 PC is crap. If you're trying to play Minecraft and WoW, or older/easy titles like such, then you're golden. My SO runs my old 8320 + 770 combo for Sims, Worms, etc and loves it. But if you're trying to play any modern title (RDR2, Tomb Raider, Metro, etc, etc, etc) a $400 rig just straight up isn't going to cut it. And if you can somehow squeak by, by the time the next years titles roll out, you're back at square 1.

 

I feel you can get by with an $800 PC, but you need to pinch pennies in certain aspects, especially if you need peripherals. 

 

I for one, and probably near this entire forum would agree with you that a 3600 + 5700XT is basically the best value build out there right now. There's almost no debating that. The issue is, a 3600 + a B450 board + 5700XT is running you damn near $800USD right there. By the time you throw in a PSU, RAM, Storage, and any other bits and bobs you may need, you're easily surpassing $1000. That's without peripherals.

 

Not to mention the way you've been handling other peoples opinions, and the way half the comments have gone has just turned this into a dick measuring contest. I feel a way more appropriate title would have been "What is the best value for first time builders", or "how much SHOULD people spend on gaming PCs" and discuss that. Instead of telling the majority of the community they're wrong, and getting into pissing contests when you disagree with eachother.

 


Gaming Build:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3800x   |  GPU: Asus ROG STRIX 2080 SUPER Advanced (2115Mhz Core | 9251Mhz Memory) |  Motherboard: Asus X570 TUF GAMING-PLUS  |  RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3600MHz 16GB  |  PSU: Corsair RM850x  |  Storage: 1TB ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro, 250GB Samsung 840 Evo, 500GB Samsung 840 Evo  |  Cooler: CM ML240R  |  Case: Lian Li PC-O11

 

Peripherals:

Monitor: LG 34GK950F  |  Sound: Sennheiser HD 598  |  Mic: Blue Yeti  |  Keyboard: Corsair K95 RGB Platinum  |  Mouse: Logitech G502

 

Laptop:

Asus ROG Zephryus G15

Ryzen 7 4800HS, GTX1660Ti, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz, 512GB nVME, 144hz

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

A $800-1000 gaming PC will easily be able to run modern AAA titles at 60+ fps 1080p for 5-6 years on high/ultra settings.

This is completely untrue, and there's no way to verify that. We have zero idea where gaming, and technology will be in 2 years, nevermind 5-6. My first PC was perfectly fine and ran 60fps 1080p when I first bought it, yet 5 years later it was more of a 30-40fps machine.

 

While something like a 3300x + 2060 is a great, cheap 1080p machine now, it's quite unlikely that it will be as powerful in 6 years, not to mention we have no way to predict that

 


Gaming Build:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3800x   |  GPU: Asus ROG STRIX 2080 SUPER Advanced (2115Mhz Core | 9251Mhz Memory) |  Motherboard: Asus X570 TUF GAMING-PLUS  |  RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3600MHz 16GB  |  PSU: Corsair RM850x  |  Storage: 1TB ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro, 250GB Samsung 840 Evo, 500GB Samsung 840 Evo  |  Cooler: CM ML240R  |  Case: Lian Li PC-O11

 

Peripherals:

Monitor: LG 34GK950F  |  Sound: Sennheiser HD 598  |  Mic: Blue Yeti  |  Keyboard: Corsair K95 RGB Platinum  |  Mouse: Logitech G502

 

Laptop:

Asus ROG Zephryus G15

Ryzen 7 4800HS, GTX1660Ti, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz, 512GB nVME, 144hz

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Statik said:

This is completely untrue, and there's no way to verify that. We have zero idea where gaming, and technology will be in 2 years, nevermind 5-6. My first PC was perfectly fine and ran 60fps 1080p when I first bought it, yet 5 years later it was more of a 30-40fps machine.

 

While something like a 3300x + 2060 is a great, cheap 1080p machine now, it's quite unlikely that it will be as powerful in 6 years, not to mention we have no way to predict that

 

I'm talking about a 800-1000$ computer with current components. Look at the specs of the upcoming consoles. Basically every AAA game in the next 7-8 years is going to be designed to run well on those specs, and you can totally get an equivalent or better PC now. 


Ryzen 1600x @4GHz

Asus GTX 1070 8GB @1900MHz

16 GB HyperX DDR4 @3000MHz

Asus Prime X370 Pro

Samsung 860 EVO 500GB

Noctua NH-U14S

Seasonic M12II 620W

+ four different mechanical drives.

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Just now, Giganthrax said:

I'm talking about a 800-1000$ computer with current components. Look at the specs of the upcoming consoles. Basically every AAA game in the next 7-8 years is going to be designed to run well on those specs, and you can totally get an equivalent or better PC now. 

You can't compare specs of consoles to PCs. My PS4 ran RDR2 and Metro Exodus, where I probably wouldn't even attempt that on a $400 PC, as they're considered some of  the most intensive games out to date. They're optimized completely differently, and I think it's like comparing apples to oranges.

 

There's no way we can predict what hardware is like in 7-8 years. If it worked off of console releases, then the entire PC industry would revolve around that. That would be like saying the Nvidia 3000 series, and all the subsequent releases after will be absolute garbage, because the PS5 set the standard for almost the next decade.. That's not how it works at all. The big computer companies compete with each other, and the gaming industry basically follows.


Gaming Build:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3800x   |  GPU: Asus ROG STRIX 2080 SUPER Advanced (2115Mhz Core | 9251Mhz Memory) |  Motherboard: Asus X570 TUF GAMING-PLUS  |  RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3600MHz 16GB  |  PSU: Corsair RM850x  |  Storage: 1TB ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro, 250GB Samsung 840 Evo, 500GB Samsung 840 Evo  |  Cooler: CM ML240R  |  Case: Lian Li PC-O11

 

Peripherals:

Monitor: LG 34GK950F  |  Sound: Sennheiser HD 598  |  Mic: Blue Yeti  |  Keyboard: Corsair K95 RGB Platinum  |  Mouse: Logitech G502

 

Laptop:

Asus ROG Zephryus G15

Ryzen 7 4800HS, GTX1660Ti, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz, 512GB nVME, 144hz

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

I'm talking about a 800-1000$ computer with current components. Look at the specs of the upcoming consoles. Basically every AAA game in the next 7-8 years is going to be designed to run well on those specs, and you can totally get an equivalent or better PC now. 

Lets look at the 1000 series GPU's for 1000 you're looking at a GTX 1060 with a 6600K, 8GB of RAM because it was expensive those days, a 128GB SSD and a 1TB HDD. That will not run all AAA games now at 1080p high/ultra. Just won't.


Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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140hz 1440 has entered the chat.. 400$ is what you need just on the GPU to have a good time but keep believing lilone :3 


 
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1 hour ago, Aereldor said:

I've build tons of PCs for around $100 with Dell optiplexes or Core 2 Quads from junkpiles. Building from used parts is extremely user unfriendly, and requires a significant amount of prior knowledge to get good deals on. Otherwise you have to keep asking on a forum to check if parts that become available around you are compatible, generally a pain in the ass. 

People who only have a $400 budget are likely to be in college/uni or such, and there will be plenty of people around them to have direct access to used parts or even full builds locally along with friends to help without having to resort to classifieds/forums/ebay.

 

My first PCs were all build from friends' discarded parts, most even coming for free.


F@H
Desktop: i7-5960X 4.4GHz, Noctua NH-D14, ASUS Rampage V, 32GB, RTX2080S, 2TB NVMe SSD, 2x16TB HDD RAID0, Corsair HX1200, Thermaltake Overseer RX1, Samsung 4K curved 49" TV, 23" secondary

Mobile SFF rig: i9-9900K, Noctua NH-L9i, Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX-AC, 32GB, GTX1070, 2x1TB NVMe SSD RAID0, 2x5TB 2.5" HDD RAID0, Athena 500W Flex (Noctua fan), Custom 4.7l 3D printed case

 

Dell XPS 2 in 1 2019, 32GB, 1TB, 4K

 

GPD Win 2

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Well this is a fun read so why not chime in.

 

Your opinion is skewed because of how much you want to spend on a computer and the performance you're complacent with. As a few others have stated already, to varying degrees of depth, there is a quite large difference in what kind of experience you can have with a gaming computer. Putting a total build together and spending $400-450 on it will not net you a good experience from the first power on to when you finally scrap it. It's just not there. It's a machine to jump in to the world of gaming but all of it will be replaced (ideally sooner rather than later) because the performance isn't up to snuff. It's going to be slow or bottlenecked in one way, shape, or form. You can't upgrade the graphics card because the CPU will hold it back. There's no point in upgrading the CPU because the GPU is too slow and you won't get much better performance for the money. You've created a bad cycle for yourself. AAA games will run poorly now, and don't even bother trying to play AAA games that come out a few years from now.

 

You talk about how people won't notice a significant difference going from 100 to 144Hz yet your minimum performance level is 1080p 30fps?

 

There's the problem with these builds, you should strive for at least one thing when you price out a system:

-It must run the games you want, at your native resolution, and be able to maintain 60 fps.

 

Having to lower your resolution to maintain frame rate, or lower your frame rate to maintain resolution, is unacceptable.

 

Anything less than that will not be an enjoyable experience and all you're advocating for is people spending even more money down the road upgrading their system because they'll be unhappy with the experience they have. It would have been cheaper to spend more up front.

 

I say this as someone who has used what is essentially an office pc that you're describing (i3 + 950 (and a couple gpus before that too) for years, has bought a new build (r5 2600 + 1070 Ti for $550, for price perspective, MSRP for my system would probably be north of $800 if nothing was bought on sale), and over the course of 7.5 years on this forum alone put together probably a couple thousand builds of all price ranges for people. Post count on the left. 👈

 

And you can back up a lot of user experience with data too. Steam hardware survey shows the most popular GPU right now is a GTX 1060 ($250), and a 4 core Intel CPU (~$340). $590 on those two parts alone says people don't enjoy a lesser experience with pc gaming.

 

Sums it up nicely:

1 hour ago, Statik said:

Also there's the argument of longevity. I would much rather spend $2000 on a PC that destroys games for 5+ years (i.e. a 4790k + 980Ti combo still competes today), then spend $400 on a tin can, then 1-2 years later realize my 30fps machine is now a 25fps machine, and constantly throw money here and there to keep it swinging.

I.e. I would rather spend 2k at once for several years of 144hz gaming, then spend 2k over several years to slowly upgrade and maintain a 30fps machine.

 


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I get that it's your opinion, but who are you to say how other people spend their money? Which make no mistake, is exactly what you're doing.
You're not that entitled.

 

I get that you find it acceptable to play at low resolutions, and low frame rates. That's your choice, and if you can enjoy that, all the power to you. Other people can't stand that, and need something that looks better. And that's fine too. Don't force your views on others.

You're not that entitled.

 

I actually don't see that many builds in the $2,000 price range. They're actually pretty rare. Most are in the $800 - $1,200 range. That goes hand in hand with a majority of the users here being young. So will you see $2,000 builds from time to time? Absolutely. From those that can afford it, or those that are lucky enough to have well off parents. What's the problem with that? They want the experience they're going to get from the extra money that's spent. A friend of mine recently went out and bought a 2080Ti to replace his 1080Ti, because he wasn't maxing out his 144hz monitor. Sure, the card was $2,000. But when you're making $250k a year, it's a drop in the pot, on something he uses for hours every day.

 

I bet you don't get 60fps, and I'm betting you're not playing on even High settings though, are you? To some, that's below they level they'd like to play.

I can watch a movie at 240p that someone shot on a HandiCam for free, but I'd much rather pay the $15 to go watch it in a theater.

Different people accept different level of quality as their baseline. And that's fine. And that's none of your business.

 

Really, even at $1,500, PC gaming is an incredibly affordable hobby if you look at other hobbies, especially since that machine will last you 4 - 5 years.

Hockey? Incredibly expensive.

Anything to do with motorcycles? Incredibly expensive.

WarHammer? Don't even get me started.

 

I used to mountain bike. Apart from the cost of the bike (of which I owned a few), I'd go through $500 a season on tires alone.

That doesn't include brake pads, maintenance, repairs, the occasional lift pass, etc.

 

I really hope you stick to PCs. I don't think you could handle the cost associated with a lot of other hobbies.

 

13 hours ago, Sakkura said:

A $400 PC is kinda crap. I could understand if you were talking $800 or $1000. But the difference compared to a $400 system will be extremely obvious.

Hey now, it doesn't have to be 😛 I only paid $350 for my set up....and that's not just tower, it's everything.

Does it take leg work and patience? Absolutely. But it's doable, and frankly, if you have a really tight budget, it's what you should be doing; used parts at the very least.

11 hours ago, Marbo said:

I'd argue that cyclists are worse than gamers. 

You shut your filthy mouth 😛 😂

11 hours ago, Aereldor said:

No. The title is my honest opinion, and it doesn't change based on your perception of it. It literally says 'unpopular opinion' right there in the first two words of the goddamn title, you don't get to call it clickbait or triggerbait because you were offended by it.

With the RX 570, it competes with the GTX 1650 Super, which is usually around $175 against the 570's $125. It's 40% pricier but it sure as hell isn't 40% faster.

With the 9100F, well, it's faster than the Ryzen 3 1200 AF, which is damn near impossible to find for $75 anyway. The 3100 is faster, but it's not 40% faster. It is 40% more expensive.

My other problem is with enthusiasts being skeptical about someone's reluctance to spend more and trying to pressure people into spending way more money than they're comfortable with using enthusiast circlejerk talking points when it's not necessary to spend more than $400 to get a completely viable gaming experience, and not have to deal with the user-unfriendly approach of buying used parts.

Just like you don't get to be triggered by the fact you post something you know is going to be unpopular, and then freak out on everyone that takes issue with it.
Where's your head at?

 

I don't understand why you're arguing price to performance here. It's very basic knowledge that as performance increases, the price to performance drops.

It's the same with virtually everything.

 

Yes, but you come to an enthusiast website, what do you expect? Enthusiast opinions. Shocker.

11 hours ago, Aereldor said:

People might gravitate towards PC gaming because of exclusives (they exist), cheaper games... $400 as a bar for entry is way lower than what the aforementioned enthusiasts recommend, and won't discourage or turn off as many people. PC enthusiasts are definitely a rich kids club among people who play video games, although it's more of a community overlap than a subcommunity. But when someone asks 'hey, how much do I need to spend for a fun PC gaming experience?' and someone posts a $1500 PCPartPicker list with a fuckin' ultrawide monitor, 8-core CPU, and an RX 5700 xt, I get really mad.

This just seems like you're trying to attack people.

PC enthusiasts are not all rich kids. As someone who sells used gear on a regular basis, I can assure you a lot of them are far from it.

11 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

i play an mmo called bdo and your skill animation speed is affected by the fps. when i had 60 fps i would drop combo all the time and certain mechanics like mouse move rushing wind wouldnt go off and I thought I was just bad but after I upgraded my cpu and can get 150+ fps ive havent had a problem with them. also I usually run a lot of stuff in the background like discord and chrome and im usually watching a video while I grind so the 6 cores is very useful so they don't cut into the game performance. and I got a lg ultra gear monitor and the colors are so much better than the cheap monitor i was using before. in fact i have a bit of a dilemma since I want to game on the lg monitor because its 144hz but i also want to watch videos on it since the colors are so much better. guess i buy a second one sometime down the line so i stop having to face that dilemma lol

 

it cost like 15 dollars to see a 3 hour movie so thats like 5 dollars per hour of entertainment

 

i played like 15,000 hours in bdo alone so not even counting my other games and my pc will cost about 1330 dollars to build today including everything though granted ive spent probably more like 1500 on it and ive spent like 400 dollars on bdo so thats like 12 cents per hour of entertainment 

So much of this.

People really undervalue computer games. For the amount of enjoyment you get out of them, the cost to enjoyment ratio is extremely small.

PCs are probably one of the least expensive hobbies to have.

Hell, even running can get pretty expensive over time.

4 hours ago, Aereldor said:

I don't know where you think you're going with this tribalistic 'don't mess with my community' angle. I joined this forum on July 3, 2015, just prior to building my PC (the one with the i3), and have been posting here for over 5 years, almost 6,000 posts mostly doing the same thing. So cut that out.

And I joined in 2013, and have 27,000 posts. What's your point? Those numbers mean absolutely nothing.

You can't bash someone for saying something like that and then do the exact same thing. That's awfully hypocritical.

3 hours ago, NineEyeRon said:

And golfers are worse than cyclists...

Mmmm. I don't think so.

Knowing golfers, they don't spend anywhere near what I spent mountain biking.

3 hours ago, Statik said:

I think the argument that first time builders should buy $400 PCs is kind of a moot point. Sure it grinds my gears when someone makes a post saying "Hey a 3950x and 2080Ti a good combo? First pc!", and I think people try to level with them and bring them down a bit, but it's their money, so who cares?

 

Sure you hit a point where you get diminishing returns, but here's my 2c on it.

 

Until last fall I was rocking a FX-8320, and GTX 770, and always believed "all you need is 30fps 1080p". But after upgrading to a 3800x + 2080 Super with a 3440x1440p monitor, I realized how massive the difference it is. Sure you can get by with a cheapo rig, but the experience is (IMHO) unparalleled. I noticed the difference between 1080p and 1440p the second I loaded into windows. I'm not saying it's the biggest bang for your buck, but anyone who claims the difference between a $400 build and a $2000 is barely noticeable is foolish. I would say it's like comparing a used beater $1000 car, and a modern Lexus off the lot, they both get you point A to point B, but one does it a hell of a lot nicer.

 

I don't think there should even be a debate on how much first time buyers should spend. If you can afford it, and you want to buy it, then buy it. People understand they can pinch pennies and still get a PC, but they willingly spend more money for a better gaming experience.


Also there's the argument of longevity. I would much rather spend $2000 on a PC that destroys games for 5+ years (i.e. a 4790k + 980Ti combo still competes today), then spend $400 on a tin can, then 1-2 years later realize my 30fps machine is now a 25fps machine, and constantly throw money here and there to keep it swinging.

 

I.e. I would rather spend 2k at once for several years of 144hz gaming, then spend 2k over several years to slowly upgrade and maintain a 30fps machine.

So. Much. Truth.

I think most people that have a 3950x and 2080Ti as a first rig probably come from other, more expensive hobbies, and when they look at the cost they think "oh, wow, only $4k for a full set up? Not bad!" That's the mentality I'd probably have had, if I got into PC gaming before mountain biking, where a bike would cost me $4 - $5k.

3 hours ago, Aereldor said:

I've build tons of PCs for around $100 with Dell optiplexes or Core 2 Quads from junkpiles. Building from used parts is extremely user unfriendly, and requires a significant amount of prior knowledge to get good deals on. Otherwise you have to keep asking on a forum to check if parts that become available around you are compatible, generally a pain in the ass. 

$400 will get you a very competent gaming PC, and save you that pain in the ass all at once.

You don't need a ton of knowledge to click "buy now" on an eBay auction, and throwing a card into a machine that doesn't even need a PSU cable plugged into it isn't exactly a hard ask either.

2 hours ago, Statik said:

You can't compare specs of consoles to PCs. My PS4 ran RDR2 and Metro Exodus, where I probably wouldn't even attempt that on a $400 PC, as they're considered some of  the most intensive games out to date. They're optimized completely differently, and I think it's like comparing apples to oranges.

Not only would a $400 PC have trouble, to be an accurate comparison, it'd have to be a $400 (assuming this is what the PS cost) PC from when it was launched.

Good. Fucking. Luck.

2 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Lets look at the 1000 series GPU's for 1000 you're looking at a GTX 1060 with a 6600K, 8GB of RAM because it was expensive those days, a 128GB SSD and a 1TB HDD. That will not run all AAA games now at 1080p high/ultra. Just won't.

That machine absolutely would run AAA games at high. I have a pretty similar system to that, and it runs most AAA titles perfectly fine.

High isn't that demanding compared to Ultra, a setting which generally isn't meant for $1,000 systems anyway.

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

People who only have a $400 budget are likely to be in college/uni or such, and there will be plenty of people around them to have direct access to used parts or even full builds locally along with friends to help without having to resort to classifieds/forums/ebay.

 

My first PCs were all build from friends' discarded parts, most even coming for free.

That's not accurate. There's lots of people who simply wouldn't want to spend more than that on a machine that they use infrequently, but they might still have friends who play on PC that they want to play with. Cross platform is going to be an excellent addition to help this, as that person will be able to join them on a console. I'm really glad we're starting to see more and more of that.


Current PC:

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i3 4160 Cooler: Integrated Motherboard: Integrated

RAM: G.Skill RipJaws 16GB DDR3 Storage: Transcend MSA370 128GB GPU: Intel 4400 Graphics

PSU: Integrated Case: Shuttle XPC Slim

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

Budget Rig 1 - Sold For $750 Profit

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i5 7600k Cooler: CryOrig H7 Motherboard: MSI Z270 M5

RAM: Crucial LPX 16GB DDR4 Storage: Intel S3510 800GB GPU: Nvidia GTX 980

PSU: Corsair CX650M Case: EVGA DG73

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

OG Gaming Rig - Gone

Spoiler

 

CPU: Intel i5 4690k Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 Motherboard: MSI Z97i AC ITX

RAM: Crucial Ballistix 16GB DDR3 Storage: Kingston Fury 240GB GPU: Asus Strix GTX 970

PSU: Thermaltake TR2 Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX

Monitor: Dell P2214H x2 Mouse: Logitech MX Master Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

 

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In quite a bit of newer games you will be CPU bottle necked if you go for 3300x and 5700 xt. Especially if you are going for 144 Hz. With a 5700xt, a 6 core is what fits.


“Remember to look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. And however difficult life may seem, there is always something you can do and succeed at. 
It matters that you don't just give up.”

-Stephen Hawking

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2 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

@dizmo

 

Like to see you run BL3 or Assassins creed at high with that. 

Any specific game can be proven to not work well, even on a top end system. It runs other AAA games just fine.


Current PC:

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i3 4160 Cooler: Integrated Motherboard: Integrated

RAM: G.Skill RipJaws 16GB DDR3 Storage: Transcend MSA370 128GB GPU: Intel 4400 Graphics

PSU: Integrated Case: Shuttle XPC Slim

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

Budget Rig 1 - Sold For $750 Profit

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i5 7600k Cooler: CryOrig H7 Motherboard: MSI Z270 M5

RAM: Crucial LPX 16GB DDR4 Storage: Intel S3510 800GB GPU: Nvidia GTX 980

PSU: Corsair CX650M Case: EVGA DG73

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

OG Gaming Rig - Gone

Spoiler

 

CPU: Intel i5 4690k Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 Motherboard: MSI Z97i AC ITX

RAM: Crucial Ballistix 16GB DDR3 Storage: Kingston Fury 240GB GPU: Asus Strix GTX 970

PSU: Thermaltake TR2 Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX

Monitor: Dell P2214H x2 Mouse: Logitech MX Master Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mihle said:

In quite a bit of newer games you will be CPU bottle necked if you go for 3300x and 5700 xt. Especially if you are going for 144 Hz. With a 5700xt, a 6 core is what fits.

If you really want to get technical, when it comes down to it a 3300x and 3600 perform pretty much identical it games, so unless you're doing workstation tasks you're not going to be bottlenecked. 


Gaming Build:

CPU: Ryzen 7 3800x   |  GPU: Asus ROG STRIX 2080 SUPER Advanced (2115Mhz Core | 9251Mhz Memory) |  Motherboard: Asus X570 TUF GAMING-PLUS  |  RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3600MHz 16GB  |  PSU: Corsair RM850x  |  Storage: 1TB ADATA XPG SX8200 Pro, 250GB Samsung 840 Evo, 500GB Samsung 840 Evo  |  Cooler: CM ML240R  |  Case: Lian Li PC-O11

 

Peripherals:

Monitor: LG 34GK950F  |  Sound: Sennheiser HD 598  |  Mic: Blue Yeti  |  Keyboard: Corsair K95 RGB Platinum  |  Mouse: Logitech G502

 

Laptop:

Asus ROG Zephryus G15

Ryzen 7 4800HS, GTX1660Ti, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz, 512GB nVME, 144hz

 

 

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I built a $2,000+ gaming rig.

 

I spend most of my free time on it. Usually watching videos on Youtube and shitposting here and on reddit. The games I enjoy most often take a small percentage of the power of my 1080ti. (Stardew Valley, etc.).

 

No regerts.


Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

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4 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

I built a $2,000+ gaming rig.

 

I spend most of my free time on it. Usually watching videos on Youtube and shitposting here and on reddit. The games I enjoy most often take a small percentage of the power of my 1080ti. (Stardew Valley, etc.).

 

No regerts.

Haha, so true, considering Stardew runs fine on 3rd gen Intel mobile integrated graphics. so many days of life I'll never get back

I always get the K SKU processor. But I never overclock. *shrugs*


Current PC:

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i3 4160 Cooler: Integrated Motherboard: Integrated

RAM: G.Skill RipJaws 16GB DDR3 Storage: Transcend MSA370 128GB GPU: Intel 4400 Graphics

PSU: Integrated Case: Shuttle XPC Slim

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

Budget Rig 1 - Sold For $750 Profit

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i5 7600k Cooler: CryOrig H7 Motherboard: MSI Z270 M5

RAM: Crucial LPX 16GB DDR4 Storage: Intel S3510 800GB GPU: Nvidia GTX 980

PSU: Corsair CX650M Case: EVGA DG73

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

OG Gaming Rig - Gone

Spoiler

 

CPU: Intel i5 4690k Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 Motherboard: MSI Z97i AC ITX

RAM: Crucial Ballistix 16GB DDR3 Storage: Kingston Fury 240GB GPU: Asus Strix GTX 970

PSU: Thermaltake TR2 Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX

Monitor: Dell P2214H x2 Mouse: Logitech MX Master Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

 

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13 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Haha, so true, considering Stardew runs fine on 3rd gen Intel mobile integrated graphics. so many days of life I'll never get back

I always get the K SKU processor. But I never overclock. *shrugs*

To be fair, I have like 35 mods installed to it. If I bring it up on my work laptop, that thing tanks HARD. It does NOT like it at all.

 

And yet it's still not enough.


Ketchup is better than mustard.

GUI is better than Command Line Interface.

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Still running a Haswell and a GTX 960 here. I don’t really play a lot of games nowadays. The most demanding thing I put to it in the past few months was probably running the CRT-Royale shader while playing a PS1 game (Digimon World). Even at 4K, my PC handles it flawlessly.  
 

Would also really love to get Final Fantasy XII Zodiac Age (this is my favorite game), abd it should run quite nicely, but with no home internet, there’s no way I’m buying any PC game that isn’t on GoG. :(

 


The pursuit of knowledge for the sake of knowledge.

Forever in search of my reason to exist.

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prices are just inflated, think about this, manufacturers just keep adding pointless crap to products in order to get more profits, LEDs, "gaming" stuff, nVME drives for end users, NZXT cases, etc. you could build a $1000 computer and spend another $1000 ON THE GRAPHICS CARD ALONE just because it has a meme Ray Tracer function no games use or use to generate the light out of a lamp set on the upper right corner of a map you see for .4 seconds while fighting a boss, that's it. They don't care to innovate or improve performance anymore, they simply add edgy plastics and heatsinks to the motherboard or more layers to an SSD chip and that's pretty much it, peripherals also add a nice amount to the total, if you go for the edgy teen look with backlit keyboards and weird mouses with 14.000 DPI just because "the aim feels better" (it's actually the same as in a $5 mouse but hey, it's all in the mind after all) or a 200 Hz monitor because moo speed bettah you end up with a $3000 build

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3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

To be fair, I have like 35 mods installed to it. If I bring it up on my work laptop, that thing tanks HARD. It does NOT like it at all.

 

And yet it's still not enough.

Oh God I haven't even looked at the mods...

 


Current PC:

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i3 4160 Cooler: Integrated Motherboard: Integrated

RAM: G.Skill RipJaws 16GB DDR3 Storage: Transcend MSA370 128GB GPU: Intel 4400 Graphics

PSU: Integrated Case: Shuttle XPC Slim

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

Budget Rig 1 - Sold For $750 Profit

Spoiler

CPU: Intel i5 7600k Cooler: CryOrig H7 Motherboard: MSI Z270 M5

RAM: Crucial LPX 16GB DDR4 Storage: Intel S3510 800GB GPU: Nvidia GTX 980

PSU: Corsair CX650M Case: EVGA DG73

Monitor: LG 29WK500 Mouse: G.Skill MX780 Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

OG Gaming Rig - Gone

Spoiler

 

CPU: Intel i5 4690k Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 Motherboard: MSI Z97i AC ITX

RAM: Crucial Ballistix 16GB DDR3 Storage: Kingston Fury 240GB GPU: Asus Strix GTX 970

PSU: Thermaltake TR2 Case: Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ITX

Monitor: Dell P2214H x2 Mouse: Logitech MX Master Keyboard: G.Skill KM780 Cherry MX Red

 

 

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