MacBook Pro for School

[Cyfern]

Hello!

 

I’m currently looking to buy a MacBook for when I start studying computer engineering later this year. However, I can’t decide between going for the base 13” (8th gen Intel) and upgrading just the RAM or paying extra for the 4 thunderbolt model. Will there be any major performance or longevity advantages to going for the more expensive version? 
 

Thanks for your help!

[Statik]

If you want my personal opinion, paying $1,300USD for a laptop with integrated graphics, a 256GB SSD, and DDR3 ram that was surpassed by DDR4 6 years ago, you're getting ripped off. 

[Mateyyy]

The two Thunderbolt port models still come with Coffee Lake CPUs and LPDDR3 memory, whereas the ones with four Thunderbolt ports come with Comet Lake chips (mostly clock speeds bumps, it's still mostly the same architecture, afaik you're still limited to 4C/8T on the 13") and LPDDR4X, that's the gist of it to my knowledge.

[Origami Cactus]

5 minutes ago, BlueScope819 said:

No. If you are taking comp sci, you need a windows machine. Period.

Macs have bootcamp.

 

But before buying a macbook he should maybe consult with the school on programs used etc, to make sure he can use a mac for schoolworks there.

[Mateyyy]

2 minutes ago, Origami Cactus said:

But before buying a macbook he should maybe consult with the school on programs used etc, to make sure he can use a mac for schoolworks there.

Totally agree.

[Vishera]

In Macbooks only looks matter,it doesn't matter if you have a dual core CPU,

or that you are thermal throttling because a sufficient cooling solution adds thickness and god forbids that.

 

Also that:

18 minutes ago, BlueScope819 said:

No. If you are taking comp sci, you need a windows machine. Period.

 

[Darkseth]

2 hours ago, Vishera said:

In Macbooks only looks matter,it doesn't matter if you have a dual core CPU,

or that you are thermal throttling because a sufficient cooling solution adds thickness and god forbids that.

Macbook Pros are not throttling, and are not overheating.
Macbook AIR does still not overheat. But it does throttle under full Load. But the Air isn't made for Full Load.

 

 

Also: What Generation the CPU is (8th or 10th) doesn't matter in a Laptop. DDR 3 vs. 4 doesn't either, since you only can measure differences in Ram-bottleneck situations.
Intel's 8th and 10th generation have nearly the same IPC. If both run at exactly 3,0 Ghz, they will have nearly exactly the same Performance. Nothing to worry about.

If you compare a Macbook Pro with 8th Gen CPU, that can hold 2,8 Ghz, with a Windows Machine and a 10th Gen Intel CPU, that  can only hold 2,4 Ghz.. the Macbook will be faster.

 

2TB and 4TB Models perform nearly identical. Only get the 4TB Model, if you uipgrade to 16gb Ram + 512gb anyway, because then the price difference is like 100-150 bucks.
If you're fine with lower storage, the 2TB Model is fine.


Anyway: I'm not saying a Macbook would be the best choice. See which Applications you will have to use, and on what OS those Applications can run. And then make your decision.
Also, don't be blinded by Apple. Look at other manufacturers. Thinkpads, Elitebooks, Dell XPS, Dell Precision etc. But also don't be blinded by someone's unreasonable Hate towards Apple ("i hate apple, so it can't be good").
There are tons of aspects on a Laptop to consider, and a Laptop is WAY MORE than just 3-4 specs on a Datasheet.

[Lord Vile]

46 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

Macbook Pros are not throttling, and are not overheating.
Macbook AIR does still not overheat. But it does throttle under full Load. But the Air isn't made for Full Load.

 

 

Also: What Generation the CPU is (8th or 10th) doesn't matter in a Laptop. DDR 3 vs. 4 doesn't either, since you only can measure differences in Ram-bottleneck situations.
Intel's 8th and 10th generation have nearly the same IPC. If both run at exactly 3,0 Ghz, they will have nearly exactly the same Performance. Nothing to worry about.

If you compare a Macbook Pro with 8th Gen CPU, that can hold 2,8 Ghz, with a Windows Machine and a 10th Gen Intel CPU, that  can only hold 2,4 Ghz.. the Macbook will be faster.

 

2TB and 4TB Models perform nearly identical. Only get the 4TB Model, if you uipgrade to 16gb Ram + 512gb anyway, because then the price difference is like 100-150 bucks.
If you're fine with lower storage, the 2TB Model is fine.


Anyway: I'm not saying a Macbook would be the best choice. See which Applications you will have to use, and on what OS those Applications can run. And then make your decision.
Also, don't be blinded by Apple. Look at other manufacturers. Thinkpads, Elitebooks, Dell XPS, Dell Precision etc. But also don't be blinded by someone's unreasonable Hate towards Apple ("i hate apple, so it can't be good").
There are tons of aspects on a Laptop to consider, and a Laptop is WAY MORE than just 3-4 specs on a Datasheet.

Agree with seeing what the school wants. As great as bootcamp is if you're never running MacOS why not just get a surface? 

 

Also would say the 4TB3 model is worth it with a catch. You get the same amount of cores but much faster RAM and much better graphics. The catch is the price. It's £1800. The price gap between the base 13" and the 10th gen base is £500, that's nearly the same as the £600 jump to the 16" base for a slightly better CPU, double the RAM and storage and 4TB3 ports. it's not a great value.

 

I would look at eBay for used 16" or a refurbed one. 

[Vishera]

2 hours ago, Darkseth said:

Macbook Pros are not throttling, and are not overheating.

Apple raised the thermal limit to 100c so technically it is not throttling but turbo is thrown out of the window,and you call 100c not overheating?

 

[Darkseth]

Apple didn't raise anything.
Intel has 100°C tJunction as their Limit since years. Even the first i-Core Generation from 10 years ago has 100°C or 105°C. Just look the Intel CPU up you want to know more about on intel.com, and you will see how hot the Die it is allowed to be.

That's 100% INTEL's own decision. They do this for all the Mac-Intel Chips, and they do that for every single other Intel Chip that you find on a Windwos machine.
Example i5 8250U: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/149088/intel-core-i5-8265u-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-90-ghz.html

 

Or whatabout a random 5th Gen i picked: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/84990/intel-core-i5-5350u-processor-3m-cache-up-to-2-90-ghz.html

It's even 105°C here.

So: As long it's not hotter than what Intel allows, it is not overheating.

If you're allowed to drive 80 mph, and you drive 80 mph, you're simply not speeding.

 

 

And that has nothing to do with Apple, this is just pure logic.
There are tons of Windows CPUs, that hit 90-100°C too under full Load, and they don't have better Turbos too.

Example the latest Thinkpad X1 Carbon G7 2020. It reaches 97°C under full Load, with 3,2 to 3,3 Ghz~. Pretty much similar to a Macbook Pro 13".

A 14" HP Elitebook 840 G5 for example sits at only 84°C~ under full Load, but it only has like 2,4 Ghz Clock speed. So even lower Turbo Clocks.

In Fact, compared to many Business Notebooks, Apple does provide better and higher Turbo Clock speeds, than Windows machines to. They might be slightly less hot, but their Clock rate will mostly be below what Apple offers.
Apple simply abuses Intel's Thermal Limit, letting the CPU use it's highest possible clock, with the lowest possible Fan Speed.
Other Manufacturers sacrafice Clock speed (and maybe Noise), for better Temperatures.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I never said, Apple's "Approach" here is the best and only correct one. But it is an approach, some others also do.

I personally would prefer lower temperatures and fan speeds too, and i would sacrafice a few 100 Mhz clock speed under full sustained Load. Beause i never need full sustained Load.
I would also be happy, if you had full controll on Macbooks for the CPU Voltage and Turbo Steps. Or switch the 28w TDP down to 20-22w TDP for example.

But still: 100° can not be overheating, if 100°C is Intel's specification.

Tbh, if you just want to bash against Apple because you don't like them.. Do it at least for legit Reasons. Apple gives you more than enough reasons and examples, where they made wrong decisions
(and other manufacturers do too...)

[Vishera]

Just now, Darkseth said:

So: As long it's not hotter than what Intel allows, it is not overheating.

That's a very dangerous and wrong assumption...

I have no idea how you got to that conclusion nor why you defend apple's questionable decisions for thermal solutions.

 

This is the max temperature the chip is allowed to run at,but it doesn't mean you should let a CPU run that hot.

 

20 minutes ago, Darkseth said:

Apple didn't raise anything.
Intel has 100°C tJunction as their Limit since years. Even the first i-Core Generation from 10 years ago has 100°C or 105°C. Just look the Intel CPU up you want to know more about on intel.com, and you will see how hot the Die it is allowed to be.

You were right about the thermal limit,my memory has failed me 

[Darkseth]

Well, it's not an assumption, but kinda a Fact "as per Definition" of the Word. "Over"heating kinda has to mean, that the temperature is OVER the allowed Limit.
i'm not saying running the CPU at exactly 100°C is just as good for the Chip, as 70°C. All i'm saying is: You just can't call it overheating.

 

I'm not defending Apple (or ANY other Manufacturer), or their Decisions. My Point is just the definition of the wording itself^^

What i'm "defending" is not any manufacturer, or their decisions, but more like.. the definition itself.
It gives people who might stumble across the Thread and have the same question a wrong Picture.
Like, they start thinking Every Aple Notebooks overheats, and will get damaged, while every Windows Notebook doesn't.
But There are many Windows Notebooks that don't run cooler under similar Load. A Windows Notebook on 97°C is neither bette nor worse than a Macbook that runs at 97°C.

 

My Problem is.. when a Macbook runs at 95°C, it's called overheating and throttling. Even the 16" Pro, Linus reviewed, that sits at like 90°~ after the first 1-2 Minutes.

But every Windows Notebooks (mostly those "high quality Business Devices), who might also hit 95°C, is NEVER called overheating.
I think, Apple shouldn't get a special treatment. Neither the positive one (Fanboyism), nor the negative one (hate/bashing) for no reason.
If Apple is criticized for something, everyone else deserves the same, if they do the same Mistake.

 

Like i said, i would see 85°C (for example) MUCH rather, than 95-100°C Even if it means having 300-400 Mhz lower Clockspeeds.

[Ryan Kukreti]

i would suggest macbook pro 13, if you are not using macos at all you could always go for xps 13 or surface 3.

[Lord Vile]

4 hours ago, Ryan Kukreti said:

i would suggest macbook pro 13, if you are not using macos at all you could always go for xps 13 or surface 3.

I’d take the surface over the XPS any day of the week