Significantly lower low fps with new ram

[OnlyAxolotl]

Posted earlier about RAM installation not going well.

 

Upgraded from 2400Mhz to 3200Mhz Ram and the new RAM has seem nomrla higher FPS but much lower FPS drops when it does get lower.

 

I am talking usual drops from 150fps to around 100, to now 150fps to 30-40.

 

Had to wiggle the RAM a little to get it in and reset BIOS.

 

CPU-Z says correct speed dual channel.

 

So tired of troubleshooting, never had a working PC in over 5 years of building them.

[Tristerin]

Full specs please

[OnlyAxolotl]

3 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

Full specs please

6700k @4.5 Ghz (1.325v)

1070 Stix NO OC

Corsair 3200Mhz Pro 16gb (Other ram was G-skill 2400Mhz)

Samsung Evo 860 

EVGA G2 gold 650w

 

Well versed in PC troubleshooting down to checking frametimes and voltages because I've never had a working PC. Simpy cant afford to buy a new one ground up.

 

 

 

 

[-rascal-]

2 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

6700k @4.5 Ghz (1.325v)

1070 Stix NO OC

Corsair 3200Mhz Pro 16gb (Other ram was G-skill 2400Mhz)

Samsung Evo 860 

EVGA G2 gold 650w

 

Well versed in PC troubleshooting down to checking frametimes and voltages because I've never had a working PC. Simpy cant afford to buy a new one ground up.

 

What make and model motherboard are you using?

 

Did you enable XMP in the BIOS?

Otherwise, according to JEDEC regulation defaults, it will run at DDR4-2133 / 2400.

[Tristerin]

9 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

6700k @4.5 Ghz (1.325v)

1070 Stix NO OC

Corsair 3200Mhz Pro 16gb (Other ram was G-skill 2400Mhz)

Samsung Evo 860 

EVGA G2 gold 650w

 

Well versed in PC troubleshooting down to checking frametimes and voltages because I've never had a working PC. Simpy cant afford to buy a new one ground up.

 

 

 

 

The CPU memory controller max rated DDR4 speed is 2133mhz.  You were probably meshing well at 2400mhz with the 4.5ghz overclock.  

 

EDIT - to clarify your board has its own memory controller, and your cpu has its own.

 

EDIT 2 - from Intel

 

-DDR4-1866/2133 @1.2V, DDR3L-1333/1600 @ 1.35V

 

This recommendation is to avoid making the MCH (Memory Controller Hub) inside your Intel® Core™ i7-6700K Processor to be forced to work out of its specs. Which can lead to performance issues.

 

https://community.intel.com/t5/Processors/i7-6700K-processor-Skylake-DDR4-RAM-of-more-than-1-2V/td-p/369110?profile.language=en

 

Intel Community Manager posted that

[OnlyAxolotl]

2 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

What make and model motherboard are you using?

 

Did you enable XMP in the BIOS?

Otherwise, according to JEDEC regulation defaults, it will run at DDR4-2133 / 2400.

Have XMP enabled. Asus Strix Z270H

 

Noticed in CPU-z under "SPD" timing table the XMP CAS# latency states 16 but when I go to "Memory" tab it states 17 as CAS latency.

 

 

[OnlyAxolotl]

7 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

The CPU memory controller max rated DDR4 speed is 2133mhz.  You were probably meshing well at 2400mhz with the 4.5ghz overclock.

But wouldn't XMP override this. Surely I wouldn't see much lower fps with faster ram?

 

Noticed in CPU-z under "SPD" timing table the XMP CAS# latency states 16 but when I go to "Memory" tab it states 17 as CAS latency.

[-rascal-]

9 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

Have XMP enabled. Asus Strix Z270H

 

Noticed in CPU-z under "SPD" timing table the XMP CAS# latency states 16 but when I go to "Memory" tab it states 17 as CAS latency.

 

 

 

Memory tab is what it is actually running.

SPD tab shows what the RAM is programmed to run.

If they two don't match up, and XMP is enabled, something is off.

 

Is your DRAM frequency coming up properly in the Memory tab?

e.g. DDR4-3000 should show up as 1500 MHz.

 

If you were running XMP on with your previous DDR4-2400 kit, and did not disable XMP or reset BIOS back to default first, it might be getting mixed up between the two different XMP profiles from the two kits.

[Tristerin]

Just now, johndole25 said:

But wouldn't XMP override this. Surely I wouldn't see much lower fps with faster ram?

 

Noticed in CPU-z under "SPD" timing table the XMP CAS# latency states 16 but when I go to "Memory" tab it states 17 as CAS latency.

XMP is applying an OC to the ram which is then achieved at 1.35v which is not recommended with DDR4, and your memory controller, as posted by Intel Community Manager on the link I provided.  While you should follow all the steps @-rascal- is posting I would be surprised to see it hit over 1ghz over spec on that memory controller based on what Im reading

 

 

[OnlyAxolotl]

6 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

XMP is applying an OC to the ram which is then achieved at 1.35v which is not recommended with DDR4, and your memory controller, as posted by Intel Community Manager on the link I provided.  While you should follow all the steps @-rascal- is posting I would be surprised to see it hit over 1ghz over spec on that memory controller based on what Im reading

 

 

Are there any instructions to see what performance issues might occur? I take it they mean specifically CPU shortfalls. How can this be measured properly.

 

Seems common place people using ram at 3200Mhz with similar CPU's. Even the latest 10700K supposedly support 2933Mhz, but people are pushing well over 4000Mhz on those CPU's.

 

 

[Tristerin]

3 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

Are there any instructions to see what performance issues might occur? I take it they mean specifically CPU shortfalls. How can this be measured properly.

 

Seems common place people using ram at 3200Mhz with similar CPU's. Even the latest 10700K supposedly support 2933Mhz, but people are pushing well over 4000Mhz on those CPU's.

 

 

Different memory controllers I suspect.  I have my Ryzen 7 1700 at 1ghz over spec for CPU memory controller - but I also got silicon lottery on that chip.  I have another 1700 @ 3200mhz ram (2666mhz mem controller on the 1700).  Took a long time dialing in the timings, and a fair bit of silicon lottery (it OCs very well too).  

 

I am not sure how it can be measured properly.  Honestly Id like to see other i7 6700k owners post with more experience with this chip

 

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

  Honestly Id like to see other i7 6700k owners post with more experience with this chip

 

 

It's not just the Cpu and IMC. 

we don't even know what board he's using.

No idea what exact memory.... 

Screen shots and part numbers missing here.

Is trying to compare low end memory to 4000mhz OC accomplishments with likely voltage he'd never want to use without experience.

 

2400mhz was faster because it probably had tighter timings, and Jedec + XMP are likely one in the same. The 3200mhz kit from the looks in this thread needs some timings manually adjusted while XMP seems to be forcing CL17, that's where the performance loss is probably at. Likely 1.35v for the memory, IF the mystery board has Vccio and Vccia, these voltages can be adjusted up to 1.15v give or take dependent on cooling and temps obviously. If the option for Cache OC is available, there's some performance gains to be had there as well. 

I'm not familiar with a 6700K, but if it's anything like an 8700K, a better kit of memory with a good motherboard can carry a long way. 

 

Additional Comment::

 

For measuring memory bandwidth and latency, AIDA64 is good for that. At the top click tools and select cache and memory benchmark. That will give you an idea what direction your heading for memory performance.

[Tristerin]

3 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

It's not just the Cpu and IMC. 

we don't even know what board he's using.

No idea what exact memory.... 

Screen shots and part numbers missing here.

Is trying to compare low end memory to 4000mhz OC accomplishments with likely voltage he'd never want to use without experience.

 

2400mhz was faster because it probably had tighter timings, and Jedec + XMP are likely one in the same. The 3200mhz kit from the looks in this thread needs some timings manually adjusted while XMP seems to be forcing CL17, that's where the performance loss is probably at. Likely 1.35v for the memory, IF the mystery board has Vccio and Vccia, these voltages can be adjusted up to 1.15v give or take dependent on cooling and temps obviously. If the option for Cache OC is available, there's some performance gains to be had there as well. 

I'm not familiar with a 6700K, but if it's anything like an 8700K, a better kit of memory with a good motherboard can carry a long way. 

I assumed good board based on overclocked K series chip, but agree

[OnlyAxolotl]

10 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

It's not just the Cpu and IMC. 

we don't even know what board he's using.

No idea what exact memory.... 

Screen shots and part numbers missing here.

Is trying to compare low end memory to 4000mhz OC accomplishments with likely voltage he'd never want to use without experience.

 

2400mhz was faster because it probably had tighter timings, and Jedec + XMP are likely one in the same. The 3200mhz kit from the looks in this thread needs some timings manually adjusted while XMP seems to be forcing CL17, that's where the performance loss is probably at. Likely 1.35v for the memory, IF the mystery board has Vccio and Vccia, these voltages can be adjusted up to 1.15v give or take dependent on cooling and temps obviously. If the option for Cache OC is available, there's some performance gains to be had there as well. 

I'm not familiar with a 6700K, but if it's anything like an 8700K, a better kit of memory with a good motherboard can carry a long way. 

 

Additional Comment::

 

For measuring memory bandwidth and latency, AIDA64 is good for that. At the top click tools and select cache and memory benchmark. That will give you an idea what direction your heading for memory performance.

Thanks,

 

The board is an Asus Strix Z270H ands the memory is Corsair RGB PRO 3200Mhz CL16. https://imgur.com/a/P3XbLfa

 

The memory has now CL16 enabled now, XMP had an issue.

 

What I am concerned with is what sort of performance issues actually occurs if there was an issue with the memory controller not being able to handle 3200Mhz. Dont like the grey area, will there be slight stuttering, or lower lows with normal high fps for example? Surely I would be seeing 50%+ performance loss on the lower fps?

 

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

Thanks,

 

The board is an Asus Strix Z270H ands the memory is Corsair RGB PRO 3200Mhz CL16. https://imgur.com/a/P3XbLfa

 

The memory has now CL16 enabled now, XMP had an issue.

 

What I am concerned with is what sort of performance issues actually occurs if there was an issue with the memory controller not being able to handle 3200Mhz. Dont like the grey area, will there be slight stuttering, or lower lows with normal high fps for example? Surely I would be seeing 50%+ performance loss on the lower fps?

 

 

 

The funny part about it is that memory performance may have a 10% swing in actual gaming performance and that would vary from game to game.

 

Some games are more cpu intensive such as CSGO and other games are more video card dependant like most recent triple A titles.

 

So its hard to say that your memory swap lowered your performance.

 

Edit, looking at your new memory jedec profiles with CL past 20, you're way better off running xmp. Dont turn it off.

[OnlyAxolotl]

11 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The funny part about it is that memory performance may have a 10% swing in actual gaming performance and that would vary from game to game.

 

Some games are more cpu intensive such as CSGO and other games are more video card dependant like most recent triple A titles.

 

So its hard to say that your memory swap lowered your performance.

 

Edit, looking at your new memory jedec profiles with CL past 20, you're way better off running xmp. Dont turn it off.

Thanks, but when we talk about performance are we talking straight fps or will there be other issues with the memory controller not being able to handle the RAM speed? Stuttering is my main problem for many years.

[Tristerin]

28 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

Thanks, but when we talk about performance are we talking straight fps or will there be other issues with the memory controller not being able to handle the RAM speed? Stuttering is my main problem for many years.

What monitor?  Refresh rate?

 

So you aren't "not stable" as its not crashing you are just having poor lows, and poorer lows with faster ram, correct?

 

What games?  What is your definition of stuttering (frame drops, momentary frame lock up, frames not meshing together correctly?)

[OnlyAxolotl]

14 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

What monitor?  Refresh rate?

 

So you aren't "not stable" as its not crashing you are just having poor lows, and poorer lows with faster ram, correct?

 

What games?  What is your definition of stuttering (frame drops, momentary frame lock up, frames not meshing together correctly?)

BenQ 144hz. There is no crashing but I'm getting much lower fps drops that are hindering game play. I play apex competitively.

 

One thing to note as you mentioned the memory controller being pushed too hard with ram, does the same go for lower timing on RAM that isn't designed for it.

 

The reason I say this is that when I booted the new RAM, there was an error where the CPU indicator was and DRAM indicator was flashing because I left my previous BIOS setting for the older ram in place without defaulting.

 

Worried that it may have broken the CPU controller?

[OnlyAxolotl]

56 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

The funny part about it is that memory performance may have a 10% swing in actual gaming performance and that would vary from game to game.

 

Some games are more cpu intensive such as CSGO and other games are more video card dependant like most recent triple A titles.

 

So its hard to say that your memory swap lowered your performance.

 

Edit, looking at your new memory jedec profiles with CL past 20, you're way better off running xmp. Dont turn it off.

Another point, I made a thread before this one where it wouldnt POST with the new RAM. 

 

I was running a non XMP profile of 2400Mhz. There was a Red Indicator followed by a yellow one (For my MOBO that means CPU error and DRAM error).

 

Could this cause harm to the memory controller?

 

 

[Tristerin]

1 hour ago, johndole25 said:

BenQ 144hz. There is no crashing but I'm getting much lower fps drops that are hindering game play. I play apex competitively.

 

One thing to note as you mentioned the memory controller being pushed too hard with ram, does the same go for lower timing on RAM that isn't designed for it.

 

The reason I say this is that when I booted the new RAM, there was an error where the CPU indicator was and DRAM indicator was flashing because I left my previous BIOS setting for the older ram in place without defaulting.

 

Worried that it may have broken the CPU controller?

From what Ive read its the increased voltage with DDR4 that can cause damage to the CPU memory controller.  However Im sure Intel cannot say - go beyond spec! - but its recommended with DDR4 on that chip to not exceed 1.2v and XMP is 1.35v out of the gate.

 

I would do a memtest64 run on the ram, if it passes with no issues at 1.35v @3200mhz then the lows may be elsewhere.

 

Is Apex on a HDD or SSD?

[OnlyAxolotl]

24 minutes ago, Tristerin said:

From what Ive read its the increased voltage with DDR4 that can cause damage to the CPU memory controller.  However Im sure Intel cannot say - go beyond spec! - but its recommended with DDR4 on that chip to not exceed 1.2v and XMP is 1.35v out of the gate.

 

I would do a memtest64 run on the ram, if it passes with no issues at 1.35v @3200mhz then the lows may be elsewhere.

 

Is Apex on a HDD or SSD?

All games are on SSD.

 

So its possible that I've broken the system. What are the actual symptoms of  CPU memory controller breaking. Is there an "in between" where it doesn't work as well as it should or does it stop working.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, johndole25 said:

Another point, I made a thread before this one where it wouldnt POST with the new RAM. 

 

I was running a non XMP profile of 2400Mhz. There was a Red Indicator followed by a yellow one (For my MOBO that means CPU error and DRAM error).

 

Could this cause harm to the memory controller?

 

 

Id return the new memory kit honestly. Its gotta be super cheap memory.

 

I dont know how they tested a 22cl at Jedec and came up with CL 16 at XMP, but that just tells me its the cheapest memory available and most likely the cause of you issues.

[OnlyAxolotl]

7 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Id return the new memory kit honestly. Its gotta be super cheap memory.

 

I dont know how they tested a 22cl at Jedec and came up with CL 16 at XMP, but that just tells me its the cheapest memory available and most likely the cause of you issues.

Just installed my old RAM and the performance issues seems to be present again. Maybe I fried the CPU memory controller?

[OnlyAxolotl]

54 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Id return the new memory kit honestly. Its gotta be super cheap memory.

 

I dont know how they tested a 22cl at Jedec and came up with CL 16 at XMP, but that just tells me its the cheapest memory available and most likely the cause of you issues.

Already returning it, they weren't cheap price wise. 

 

Getting horrendous input lag and now bad frames with the older ram on the old setting now too. Guessing I've fried the CPU controller by what you all are saying here.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, johndole25 said:

Already returning it, they weren't cheap price wise. 

 

Getting horrendous input lag and now bad frames with the older ram on the old setting now too. Guessing I've fried the CPU controller by what you all are saying here.

Its possible but probably not likely. Ive run 1.9v through my memory on way higher clocks and timings. 

 

Gotta be some other thing giving you these issues.