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nicklmg

Our server room ACTUALLY Caught Fire Explained

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Yea um, this is kind of a "knucklehead" issue on LMG's part, not Eaton.  lol.  I kind of need to face palm here, especially when they didn't even have proper ventilation on top of the issue which caused the fire.  They really should have a larger server room anyway.  I get it that space matters, but so does that equipment.  I see on multiple videos complaints about how there's not enough room to do something in there, so clearly a bigger room is required anyway.


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Brian the Electrician right now...

 

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On 5/21/2020 at 2:29 PM, Nystemy said:

 

 

I would though also cut out a few fan holes, install some grills, and put in some fans that are collecting dust on a warehouse shelf.

After all, that would make the space a lot more ventilated. And also make an air path from the grill on the server room door, through the servers, and then the UPS and out the back.
 

Fan holes would help with air flow, but that server room likely needs an actual air conditioner. If it hits 40 degrees all the hardware is going to start complaining about it being too warm. The server room at my office actually has an air conditioner in it, and it's only a 12'x12' room.

 

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5 hours ago, Kisai said:

Fan holes would help with air flow, but that server room likely needs an actual air conditioner. If it hits 40 degrees all the hardware is going to start complaining about it being too warm. The server room at my office actually has an air conditioner in it, and it's only a 12'x12' room.

 

Yes, walls are honestly fairly horrid at letting heat through them, and a layer of drywall in most rooms aren't really helping things along.

Concrete walls or steel ones are a bit better, but a bit costly.

Some form of air conditioning or ventilation is generally required if one plans on having more than a handful of computers in a space for extended periods of time. (Unless its like a raspberry pi cluster.) Even something as simple as two holes in the wall and some fans can make a huge improvement.
 

I myself have been poking at the idea of using a geothermal well for cooling. ("Geothermal" as in about 100 meter deep hole that has roughly the year round average temperature (typically 3-8 degrees C) deep inside of it, due to being surrounded by a gigantic thermal mass, it can provide typically around 3-5 kW of cooling (~10-15 kBTU), with just a water pump, a couple of radiators and some fans and typically last through the warmest months of the years, and then one can cool the well back down and use it as a source of heat through the winter. Though, geothermal wells can't be drilled in all regions of the world. In some places, it can be a disaster for all one's neighbors and oneself... (And the idea of storing heat in them is a bit "nah" since it tends to wander away as the ground water flows.. But a 3-8 C well is a lot warmer than outside winter temperatures in some regions of the world, and its a lot colder than what the summer has on offer.) So it works kinda fine, unless one lives above capped off limestone (or other water absorbing rocks), or on a volcano.

Though, one can also use a small data-center/server-room as a source of heat for the building in general. After all, even 30 C is warm for most indoor environments.

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8 hours ago, Nystemy said:

Yes, walls are honestly fairly horrid at letting heat through them, and a layer of drywall in most rooms aren't really helping things along.

Concrete walls or steel ones are a bit better, but a bit costly.

Some form of air conditioning or ventilation is generally required if one plans on having more than a handful of computers in a space for extended periods of time. (Unless its like a raspberry pi cluster.) Even something as simple as two holes in the wall and some fans can make a huge improvement.
 

I myself have been poking at the idea of using a geothermal well for cooling. ("Geothermal" as in about 100 meter deep hole that has roughly the year round average temperature (typically 3-8 degrees C) deep inside of it, due to being surrounded by a gigantic thermal mass, it can provide typically around 3-5 kW of cooling (~10-15 kBTU), with just a water pump, a couple of radiators and some fans and typically last through the warmest months of the years, and then one can cool the well back down and use it as a source of heat through the winter. Though, geothermal wells can't be drilled in all regions of the world. In some places, it can be a disaster for all one's neighbors and oneself... (And the idea of storing heat in them is a bit "nah" since it tends to wander away as the ground water flows.. But a 3-8 C well is a lot warmer than outside winter temperatures in some regions of the world, and its a lot colder than what the summer has on offer.) So it works kinda fine, unless one lives above capped off limestone (or other water absorbing rocks), or on a volcano.

Though, one can also use a small data-center/server-room as a source of heat for the building in general. After all, even 30 C is warm for most indoor environments.

Unless he owns the building or the property it's on he likely cannot sink a well for geo-thermal nor can he add things to the roof, usually. What he could do though is run an AC unit more like a residential one with the exchanger and compressor behind the building, that's likely allowed by the property owner. That however would be expensive. Probably just ducting the room air outside and having some baffled ducting (twists, turns, and some sound absorbing foam at key points) would allow hot air out, cooler building air in, and keep the noise down. So long as there's no 'line of sight'  and every surface with 'line of sight' to the noise source was damped with foam to absorb the noise the ducting could be very quiet without hurting airflow a lot. It's similar to an old car trick to quiet your exhaust without restricting flow, add bends and point it at the ground.

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IMO a redesign is a good idea anyway. Given the rate LMG are filling Petabyte Storinators it's just a matter of time before there's simply no more space left in the rack! And as they hire not one but 5 units, there's space to expand, provided other things/rooms are organised more efficiently. Yes, it'll cost, but once done you'll quickly reap the benefits as the noise and heat from the servers is no longer right next to the Editors Den. Think about the increase in productivity when the editors are no longer subjected to prolonged levels of computer fan noise and heat and....

 

Oh, wait... 😲

 

Joking aside, the one thing that will bear some serious cost is the separate network circuit from the unit the DC is relocated to and the Editors Den. Fibre is a must here. Using a multi-core cable LMG could equip all editors WS with optical connections (SFP+) straight into the new DC with almost 0 (zero) latency and no way of max-ing out a common 10Gb connection. Expensive, but way cool tech!


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(Faithless, 'Reverence' from the 1996 Reverence album)

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3 hours ago, Bitter said:

Unless he owns the building or the property it's on he likely cannot sink a well for geo-thermal nor can he add things to the roof, usually. What he could do though is run an AC unit more like a residential one with the exchanger and compressor behind the building, that's likely allowed by the property owner. That however would be expensive. Probably just ducting the room air outside and having some baffled ducting (twists, turns, and some sound absorbing foam at key points) would allow hot air out, cooler building air in, and keep the noise down. So long as there's no 'line of sight'  and every surface with 'line of sight' to the noise source was damped with foam to absorb the noise the ducting could be very quiet without hurting airflow a lot. It's similar to an old car trick to quiet your exhaust without restricting flow, add bends and point it at the ground.

This is true, unless he owns the building he's gotta get whatever he does cleared with the owner and it also has to be to code for building and fire protection regs.

 

We had a unit in the server room that had a water cooled condensor, that eliminated the need for it to be outdoors but there was still a few things that had to be maintained because of it.
Such a setup would be like alot of buildings have with a chiller, they use a cooling tower for the chiller which is normally on the roof or just outside the building period. Takes periodic maintenance with some chem control to keep it going but it works well.

 

An enclosed heat exchanger type cooler for the condensor would be good too and eliminate the need for a tower, that (Tower) being open to the elements but a heat exchanger can be a fully enclosed setup with it's own radiator and fan(s) outside the building.

 

Out of all the setups that's possible a heat exchanger for an AC unit would probrably be the best and most trouble-free to go with aside from keeping a eye on coolant levels condition of the pump(s) and monitoring occasionally for corrosion - It happens and I've dealt with all of it at some point.

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4 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

This is true, unless he owns the building he's gotta get whatever he does cleared with the owner and it also has to be to code for building and fire protection regs.

 

We had a unit in the server room that had a water cooled condensor, that eliminated the need for it to be outdoors but there was still a few things that had to be maintained because of it.
Such a setup would be like alot of buildings have with a chiller, they use a cooling tower for the chiller which is normally on the roof or just outside the building period. Takes periodic maintenance with some chem control to keep it going but it works well.

 

An enclosed heat exchanger type cooler for the condensor would be good too and eliminate the need for a tower, that (Tower) being open to the elements but a heat exchanger can be a fully enclosed setup with it's own radiator and fan(s) outside the building.

 

Out of all the setups that's possible a heat exchanger for an AC unit would probrably be the best and most trouble-free to go with aside from keeping a eye on coolant levels condition of the pump(s) and monitoring occasionally for corrosion - It happens and I've dealt with all of it at some point.

I almost talked about a fluid filled heat exchanger but it probably gets hot enough there that it wouldn't cool well enough on some days, in the winter, spring, and fall it would likely work out most of the time. I think just venting the room into the building with forced air in the winter would be good enough and keep the heating bill down a little bit, in the summer the room could blocked from venting and an AC unit used to provide cooled dried air to the room. Using evaporative cooling could introduce a lot of humidity which comes with problems too.

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2 hours ago, Bitter said:

I almost talked about a fluid filled heat exchanger but it probably gets hot enough there that it wouldn't cool well enough on some days, in the winter, spring, and fall it would likely work out most of the time. I think just venting the room into the building with forced air in the winter would be good enough and keep the heating bill down a little bit, in the summer the room could blocked from venting and an AC unit used to provide cooled dried air to the room. Using evaporative cooling could introduce a lot of humidity which comes with problems too.

That would only be an issue if the evaporator/tower was inside the same area (Room), if it's outdoors you won't have that happening inside the room. The chiller we had for example has piping that ran out from the mechainical room where the chiller was to the tower outside on the roof. In the case of a server using such a tower you woudn't have issues with condensation forming on the pipes like we had with the chiller.

 

We also had three air compressors cooled the same way, a 50HP and a pair of 100HP units (Gardner-Denver) and they were all done the same way via a heat exchanger inside ran to a evaporative tower on the roof like the chiller was. 

I mean there are several ways you can do it, to figure out what would be the best way to apply it is the thing.

 

Using the heat from the room in winter is a good idea to help keep the heating costs down, make sense to use it rather than waste it.

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1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

That would only be an issue if the evaporator/tower was inside the same area (Room), if it's outdoors you won't have that happening inside the room. The chiller we had for example has piping that ran out from the mechainical room where the chiller was to the tower outside on the roof. In the case of a server using such a tower you woudn't have issues with condensation forming on the pipes like we had with the chiller.

 

We also had three air compressors cooled the same way, a 50HP and a pair of 100HP units (Gardner-Denver) and they were all done the same way via a heat exchanger inside ran to a evaporative tower on the roof like the chiller was. 

I mean there are several ways you can do it, to figure out what would be the best way to apply it is the thing.

 

Using the heat from the room in winter is a good idea to help keep the heating costs down, make sense to use it rather than waste it.

OH that kind of evaporative cooling. I was thinking like a swamp cooler!

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4 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

There are two ac units in our server room.

wUt, why not just large fans at the top of the walls to exhaust the hot hair out of the room?
- I understand it’s ideal to keep everything nice and cool, but the cost of all that ac lol.


-it’s scuff Gang btw, I hated the name and needed a change
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15 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

There are two ac units in our server room.

Eaton disagrees with this. With the smaller size of the new unit and it's better positioning I hope heat isn't an issue going forward. Also that whole bus-bar weirdness. And it was cute seeing you geek over a swivel impact socket, you should see some of the other amazing tools mechanics use!

9 minutes ago, scuff gang said:

wUt, why not just large fans at the top of the walls to exhaust the hot hair out of the room?
- I understand it’s ideal to keep everything nice and cool, but the cost of all that ac lol.

Ballah, he's makin it rain.

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The room!   The room!   The room is on fire!   LMG don't need no servers, let the motherfucker burn!

 

Ah, shit!   Ah, shit!   Seven days a week, he's on call.   To get the editors up off the wall.  You'll feel motivated as he operates. 'Cause electrical energy is what he generates.  He'll fix your server wherever you be.  Calling Brian the Electrician to LMG!


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4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

The room!   The room!   The room is on fire!

WE DONT NEED NO WATER LET THE MOTHERSERVERS BURN!


-it’s scuff Gang btw, I hated the name and needed a change
Quote me for a reply, React if I was helpful, informative, or funny

 

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ram: vengeance lpx c15 @3800mhz

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1 hour ago, scuff gang said:

WE DONT NEED NO WATER LET THE MOTHERSERVERS BURN!

Wave your ram in the air like ya just don't care!


Bloodshed and the Fenris-Wolf:

| CPU:  Ryzen 9 3900x | CPU Cooler:  Dark Rock Pro 4 | Paste:  Kryonaut | Motherboard:  ASUS ROG x570 Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi) | RAM:  G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 | Boot Drive:  Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME | Storage Drives:  Crucial MX500 500 GB M.2-2280+Western Digital WD Blue 2 TB 2.5"+Toshiba N300 8 TB 3.5" 7200RPM+Toshiba X300 4 TB 3.5" | GPU:  ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 2080 Ti AMP Extreme Core | Case:  Cooler Master MasterBox MB511 RGB | PSU:  EVGA SuperNOVA G2 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply w/CableMod E-Series Cable Kit (Black/Red) | Case Fans:  2 Corsair SP140 49.49 CFM 140 mm Fans | Displays:  BenQ PD2700U 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz+Asus TUF Gaming VG27AQ 27.0" 2560x1440 165 Hz+MSI Optix MAG322CR 31.5" 1920x1080 180 Hz | Mouse:  Corsair M65 RGB ELITE | Keyboard:  Ducky Shine 7 Blackout - MK Exclusive First Release - RGB LED Double Shot PBT Mechanical Keyboard with Silent Red Switches | Mousepad:  Gaya Entertainment Oversized Gaming Mousepad Doom | Audio:  AKG K712 PRO Headphones+Audio-Technica ATR2500-USB Cardioid Condenser USB Microphone+Kingston HyperX Cloud II 7.1 Channel Headset+iBasso IT01 Dynamic Driver Audiophile In-Ear Monitors/Earbuds (Black)+Pair of Mackie MR624s(came with stands+isolation pads) | OS:  Windows 10 Pro |



Bifröst(ROG Zephyrus M GU502):

| CPU:  i7-9750h | RAM:  32GB Dual Channel 2666mhz CL 19(Stock+Samsung 16GB DDR4 PC4-21300, 2666MHZ, 260 PIN SODIMM, 1.2V, CL 19 ) | Storage:  1TB SSD with Optane | GPU:  Nvidia RTX 2060 | Display:  144hz 3ms | Mouse:  Corsair M65 Pro |

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1 hour ago, DO-MAM1 game account said:

You can give me the broken ups with everything that you have that goes with the broken ups because I have a use for the parts that are inside because it’s stuff I need for a project.

Oh no..... They didn't just ask that.... I mean really....
And it's their very first post here too! 😲
 

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