You’re Still Gonna Buy Intel… - Core i9 10900K & i5 10600K Review

[Sir_Zeke]

4 minutes ago, asumkovski said:

Who knows what kind of monstrosity they got for cooling that chip down. Not disclosing the cooler is a bad move by ltt.

Or if it was a open bench or close case or did they let the system heat up. I don't use my PC for 5 minutes and then turn it off. No benchmarks for 1440p or 4k or OC settings or CPU cooler alternatives.

[Emily Young]

26 minutes ago, kberes said:

I don't see why it was necessary to use the volume pricing for Intel as a comparison, when not done the same for AMD. Not takig sides here, but that's pretty shady and not being honest on the true price of the CPUs. The retail for the Intel is about $100 more than you claim in the video. Using tricks to try and pull one over on people so the prices seem to be more inline with each other is dishonest and quite annoying.

 

Maybe I'm wrong? Feel free to correct me.

AFAIK, AMD doesn't disclose the price per 1k, but Intel only discloses the 1k pricing. I don't believe there was any mention of retail pricing in any materials, so I compromised here rather than just showing the pricing with no context. It seems other outlets were caught out by this given B&H's pricing - FWIW, Newegg is showing $529, so I think retailers are confused, as well.

 

1 hour ago, Mamonos said:

At the beginning of the video you showed the thermal results, it is possible to know with which solution was the system cooled?

1 hour ago, LLLLets_Shadles said:

this. as much as I like the shorter videos they do for these (as opposed to jay, paul, kyle) this is infuriating, don't talk about how great thermal performance without showing what you used and how it differed from the 9th gen stuff and even the ryzen stuff, crazy that they would exclude that information

It's almost always an H115i, but I usually do show it in the graphs themselves. I missed it this time around.

 

4 minutes ago, Sir_Zeke said:

Or if it was a open bench or close case or did they let the system heat up. I don't use my PC for 5 minutes and then turn it off. No benchmarks for 1440p or 4k or OC settings or CPU cooler alternatives.

I always do thermal testing after finishing all other testing, so the system isn't just at ambient. 1440p and 4K are pointless for CPU testing.

[Mateyyy]

8 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

But with these 10th gen cpu's you're still paying more for a board with a feature you can't use, add in several NVME SSD's and pci-e 3.0 will be a limitation.

Fair point, I never defended Intel for not including 4.0 support with these new chips. I just said that personally I don't find it to be an issue, as I'm not going to use more than a graphics card and maybe two NVMe drives tops, but of course this depends on the end user.

 

Regarding everyone asking about temperatures, Hardware Unboxed observed fairly close temperatures to what LTT got, to be exact 63C with MCE off and 84C with MCE on. They used an H150i (360mm AIO) for cooling. https://youtu.be/1O1nhAd7V9I?t=795

[Arika]

13 minutes ago, asumkovski said:

Who knows what kind of monstrosity they got for cooling that chip down. Not disclosing the cooler is a bad move by ltt.

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

With no mention of what cooling was used.

 V

3 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

It's almost always an H115i, but I usually do show it in the graphs themselves. I missed it this time around.

 

I always do thermal testing after finishing all other testing, so the system isn't just at ambient. 1440p and 4K are pointless for CPU testing.

 

looks like a fairly standard AIO to me

[Haro]

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

add in several NVME SSD's and pci-e 3.0 will be a limitation.

Not really no

Unless your doing massive tasks that require reading are writing large files consistently (which with a consumer platform you probably won't because of the pcie lanes limitations of these consumer cpus ) it won't be a problem 

[Blademaster91]

33 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

Fair point, I never defended Intel for not including 4.0 support with these new chips. I just said that personally I don't find it to be an issue, as I'm not going to use more than a graphics card and maybe two NVMe drives tops, but of course this depends on the end user.

 

Regarding everyone asking about temperatures, Hardware Unboxed observed fairly close temperatures to what LTT got, to be exact 63C with MCE off and 84C with MCE on. They used an H150i (360mm AIO) for cooling. https://youtu.be/1O1nhAd7V9I?t=795

I get what you mean, most wouldn't use more than 1 graphics card and maybe 1 or 2 NVMe drives, but its still annoying that the feature is on the board but Intel didn't add pci-e 4.0 even though they have a much larger R&D budget than AMD does.

But 84C with MCE on is still really warm for using a 360mm AIO.

[TetraSky]

Did I just miss it, or did Linus never said which cooler they used for their thermal tests? 

If you don't tell us which cooler you've used, for all we know, it may as well have been your custom AC chiller. Because I seriously doubt that was with an intel stock cooler.

 

edit: Saw Anthony's reply. Yeah they goofed.

[Haro]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

But 84C with MCE on is still really warm for using a 360mm AIO.

That imo is the biggest problem with these current gen Intel cpu's 

 

[Haro]

15 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

It's almost always an H115i, but I usually do show it in the graphs themselves. I missed it this time around

@TetraSky

[Velcade]

15 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

It's almost always an H115i, but I usually do show it in the graphs themselves. I missed it this time around.

 

1 minute ago, TetraSky said:

Did I just miss it, or did Linus never said which cooler they used for their thermal tests? 

If you don't tell us which cooler you've used, for all we know, it may as well have been your custom AC chiller. Because I seriously doubt that was with an intel stock cooler.

 

Stock coolers don't come with K chips...  Here is Anthony's reply. 

 

TLDR; H115i

[duckypath]

22 minutes ago, GabenJr said:

AFAIK, AMD doesn't disclose the price per 1k, but Intel only discloses the 1k pricing. I don't believe there was any mention of retail pricing in any materials, so I compromised here rather than just showing the pricing with no context. It seems other outlets were caught out by this given B&H's pricing - FWIW, Newegg is showing $529, so I think retailers are confused, as well.

Yes, I get that. But it still doesn't make sense using a price that is not going to be what consumers (the viewers of your videos) are going to be paying. In this scenario, leaving a price out as TBD would be a much more honest thing to do. This isn't an attack on LTT at all, as I appreciate all your content. But the pricing used should be removed, as it provides false information, especially seeing as how Intel chips NEVER sell retail for their volume pricing at launch. 

 

EDIT: I'll also add that using this volume pricing as a place holder is more confusing than leaving a price out. I can see multiple tech sites saying how retail is going to be the volume price, when it's not. Intel only releasing the volume price to the public (should only be more volume buyers) is dishonest as well, as they know sites like LTT will use that price to provide a better price comparison vs. the competition.

[Kisai]

42 minutes ago, Mateyyy said:

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-pci-express-scaling/

With a 2080Ti, the difference between 8x 3.0 and 16x 3.0 is maybe ~5FPS tops, sometimes even within margin of error, and that's even at 4K. And that's the fastest consumer-grade current-gen GPU.

That test needs to be repeated with PCIe4.0 cards and FFXV.

 

[samcool55]

Maybe someone does know this detail but. are the intel CPU's tested at no limit or at the limit intel specified? (see graph at 1:44)

[Dirtnapper]

Gamers Nexus

 

Intel Core i9-10900K CPU Review & Benchmarks

[Senzelian]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

500GB SSD's NVMe 4 lane drives right now do 2GB/sec without even blinking. These are what's in most laptops right now. They will bottleneck at 8GB/sec, which means at PCIe 3.0 speeds, SSD's larger than 2TB will be bottlenecked, as they scale with capacity. A 4TB drive will be the maximum on PCIe4.

1. These aren't in most laptops. They might be in most 700€ + laptops, but are rarely found in laptops in lower price ranges.
2. SSD speeds don't scale with capacity. It is true that higher capacity drives tend to be faster, but there are still limits to the controller and cache, that first need to be overcome. And keep in mind that heat plays a large role nowadays. 

[SavageNeo]

ok so i5 10600k beats i9 10900k in gaming? that is wild.

But intel becomes better in gaming. Yes the cooling and motherboard will be expensive but for those fps 10600k makes more sense that ryzen 5 3600/x.

still for streaming and gaming ryzen 9 3900x makes more sense than 10900k but for a while intel is much better in gaming until Zen 3 comes out.

 

so for gamign intel is better than AMD. but you might get ryzen 9 3950x setup with same price as 10900k setup since you need beefy cooling and expensive motherboard for it.

 

gaming intel

streamin, gaming and productivity AMD

 

waiting for motherboard reviews

[RejZoR]

I guess if you're a gamer, Intel is still a good option. That control for selective HT is also interesting. I wonder what difference it makes in games. If any.

 

Though I think I'm still gonna wait for AMD's Ryzen 4000 series. Or do the longer wait for Intel to release their total architecture redesign and AMD release AM5 platform. I think that's what is going to really happen for me. 5820K at 4.6GHz on all cores is still kicking well enough to last me till then...

[ceaton94]

I'm looking at the 10600k myself as a good contender for my next rig. do we know what cooler was used for the temps in the video? sorry if ive missed it! 

 

EDIT: Just seen the reply above! H115 most likely

[mach]

No matter how good the temperature is "controlled", the same amount of heat is still being dumped into your room and there's a lot of heat.

People living in hot climate are going to regret when they're sweating like pigs while gaming. Wait, gamers care about the cpu temp more than their room temp don't they?

 

Those cpu have more fps, in 1080p.

Who buy these to game on 1080p screen? 

Bump up the resolution and performance quickly becomes gpu bound.

But you got to have these number to show intel is the "gaming king", right? 

Have I missed the 1440p or 4k numbers in the video? Or there isn't any?

"You’re Still Gonna Buy Intel" Nice title.

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, Senzelian said:

1. These aren't in most laptops. They might be in most 700€ + laptops, but are rarely found in laptops in lower price ranges.
2. SSD speeds don't scale with capacity. It is true that higher capacity drives tend to be faster, but there are still limits to the controller and cache, that first need to be overcome. And keep in mind that heat plays a large role nowadays. 

1. Even the worst laptop at the office has Toshiba kxg50znv256g or kxg60znv256g in them. These do 3180MB/sec read and 2960MB/sec Write

2. It's been my experience that all flash media scales with capacity. Yes you're right it does depend on the controller, however the M2 spec also permits double-sided drives, which I've yet to see (and the lack of clearance for a heat spreader might prevent happening.) Thermals play more of a role in a laptop SSD performance, and some laptops, particularly those with metal backs, actually use the laptop chassis as the heat spreader for the SSD. Higher capacity drives either use more chips or more layers to the flash, which is why they get faster.

[Dodger535]

Guys, i'v just checked out intel Ark site, and ... https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/compare.html?productIds=199328,199329,199332,199331,203902,189124,189121,123613,198016,125042  

 

Can you compare all that stuff in a video somehow ? Because i'm not sure that those new intel CPU's are much better \ colder then their 2 year old Xeons (with almost the same clock speeds and options). 

[Quadrum]

5 hours ago, Arika S said:

maybe you should have watched the video, literally the first 2 minutes shows the temps

I do realize that now. Intel really showed me.

[pApA^LeGBa]

2 hours ago, mach said:

"You’re Still Gonna Buy Intel" Nice title.

They changed the title to  "What "Hanging on for Dear life" looks like" wich is more on point if AMD can deliver what is promised. I still can´t get over the part where he desperatly defends Intel by basically saying that customers are mindless sheeps. Considering the video before this, i can smell the desperation even here in the EU. Can´t get behind why he does it tough. Still cracks me up.

 

A lot of people nowadays buy the best bang per buck, no matter wich brand, and that is where Intel can´t keep up with AMD. Also the part that the thermals are ok is riddiculous. Using a 280mm AIO that is not exactly hard, but it´s not what the average consumer buys. Not even the average 500$ CPU consumer. It´s too bad AMD doesn´t release right away also. I would love to see that considering they deliver like said.

 

Still wish there was a 3rd party in the CPU market. More competition please. Not gonna happen sadly. At least i don´t know of anything that could mix up the whole market.

 

 

[Grabhanem]

Honestly, I'm not really surprised by anything I see here.

 

- Temps are reasonable at stock. 125W isn't really that hard to cool, especially on a soldered chip with the optimizations they've done, and given how Intel's turbo bins work, it'll run at that power most of the time.

- It's a furnace with MCE. This is just overclocked skylakeX on a consumer socket, so no surprise there.

- It beats AMD in gaming by a slight margin. This was true of 9th gen, and they've boosted clockspeeds.

- It loses to AMD in productivity by a slight margin. This was more extreme in 9th gen, and they've added cores.

 

I'm a little annoyed by the necessity of a new board, but it's Intel, that's to be expected at this point. Honestly my biggest hope at this point is that we end up with some beefy AF overclocking coolers out of this that can keep Threadripper et al properly cooled on air. In general, this is competition, and that's going to be good for all concerned.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

So... video title changed?