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Tedny

AMD listened.. again? Zen 3 support on B450/X470

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Posted · Original PosterOP

der8auer got e-mail from AMD 

With Zen 3 bios you losing some support for old CPU's 

Zen 3 bios not on release

 

AMD  statement

  1. We will develop and enable our motherboard partners with the code to support “Zen 3”-based processors in select beta BIOSes for AMD B450 and X470 motherboards.
  2. These optional BIOS updates will disable support for many existing AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor models to make the necessary ROM space available.
  3. The select beta BIOSes will enable a one-way upgrade path for AMD Ryzen Processors with “Zen 3,” coming later this year. Flashing back to an older BIOS version will not be supported.
  4. To reduce the potential for confusion, our intent is to offer BIOS download only to verified customers of 400 Series motherboards who have purchased a new desktop processor with “Zen 3” inside. This will help us ensure that customers have a bootable processor on-hand after the BIOS flash, minimizing the risk a user could get caught in a no-boot situation.
  5. Timing and availability of the BIOS updates will vary and may not immediately coincide with the availability of the first “Zen 3”-based processors.
  6. This is the final pathway AMD can enable for 400 Series motherboards to add new CPU support. CPU releases beyond “Zen 3” will require a newer motherboard.
  7. AMD continues to recommend that customers choose an AMD 500 Series motherboard for the best performance and features with our new CPUs.

 

der8auer

Hardware unbox

 

Anandtech source

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Now people cant complain anymore. that is great news for all people with b450 and x470 board users


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Read this: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-reverses-course-will-enable-zen-3-support-on-b450-and-x470-motherboards

https://hexus.net/tech/news/mainboard/142726-amd-decided-change-course-zen-3-b450x470-support/?set_mobile_full_site_cookie=1

 

To be honest I was kind of expecting this to happen, and thankfully it really did, as launching B550 this late as the only budget-friendly option to support future CPUs was kind of odd considering AMD's track record with AM4.

It'll be interesting to see what sort of sacrifices in terms of older CPU support or BIOS UI the manufacturers must resort to to make this happen, and I'm also curious how many B450/X470 boards will allow full support for Zen 3, as I'd personally expect the lowest-end boards (e.g. Asrock's B450 HDV) to not offer compatibility for the new chips or at least not too soon, but someone who purchased something like a B450 Mortar for example, which is capable of running even a 12-core, will surely be quite excited about this news.

 

Edit: oopsie, someone was a couple of minutes quicker than me on posting the news haha.

Edited by Mateyyy

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via: der8auer and Anandtech

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15807/amd-to-support-zen-3-and-ryzen-4000-cpus-on-b450-and-x470-motherboards

 

Quote

AMD: (plaintext via Anandtech)

  1. We will develop and enable our motherboard partners with the code to support “Zen 3”-based processors in select beta BIOSes for AMD B450 and X470 motherboards.
  2. These optional BIOS updates will disable support for many existing AMD Ryzen™ Desktop Processor models to make the necessary ROM space available.
  3. The select beta BIOSes will enable a one-way upgrade path for AMD Ryzen Processors with “Zen 3,” coming later this year. Flashing back to an older BIOS version will not be supported.
  4. To reduce the potential for confusion, our intent is to offer BIOS download only to verified customers of 400 Series motherboards who have purchased a new desktop processor with “Zen 3” inside. This will help us ensure that customers have a bootable processor on-hand after the BIOS flash, minimizing the risk a user could get caught in a no-boot situation.
  5. Timing and availability of the BIOS updates will vary and may not immediately coincide with the availability of the first “Zen 3”-based processors.
  6. This is the final pathway AMD can enable for 400 Series motherboards to add new CPU support. CPU releases beyond “Zen 3” will require a newer motherboard.
  7. AMD continues to recommend that customers choose an AMD 500 Series motherboard for the best performance and features with our new CPUs.

well they caved. if it wasn't for their PR crusade, AMD would have been fit for commiserations with the limited BIOS capacity design they inadvertently stuck with (see GN's video for technical production reasoning)

keep in mind this is A ONE-WAY UPGRADE, so flashing the new BIOS would prevent downgrading to an older version with the required support for initial CPUs

which begs the question: how would secondhand listings play out in the future? o_o

 

OP EDIT: i may have jumped to conclusions;

there might be a bigger possibility of downgrading the BIOS when dealing with boards that support BIOS flashback

(the thing where an active CPU isn't required to flash said capable motherboard)

so at least there's that ,_,

 

EDIT: as many have pointed out: #4 sounded pretty weird, since it has been tradition that motherboard vendors themselves distribute the BIOSes themselves, so it's not clear how would AMD take firsthand ownership of distributing directly to customers who are technically once removed by way of said motherboard vendors o_o

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why block downgrading though 


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1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

why block downgrading though 

no idea, although i'm not sure how many boards actually enforce the strict upwards versioning? o_o (i mean i've downgraded BIOSes before to troubleshoot)

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first time i've actually seen Der8auer's face.

 

Holy shit AMD is in super damage control. Good that consumers held them accountable for the things they say, but don't give them a free pass for doing something that (according to AMD themselves) should have been done in the first place.


Judge the product by it's own merits, not by the Company that created it.

 

 

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nope you were first 655042292004159494.png?v=1 don't do anything to your thread

 

EDIT: the technical production explanation for AMD's decisions throughout this mess

 

EDITx1.1: Dr Wafer Eater analyses and explain this news update

 

EDITx2: oh dammit there was ONE MORE 5 minutes prior, ACK

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3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

why block downgrading though 

From their language, it more seems like whatever things this BIOS update is doing are not easily reversible due to the technical differences between the Zen arches.

Not a block because they want you to upgrade but a block because physically they can't support everything properly with that chipset.

 

Maybe?

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Why only blame AMD when board makers are to be blamed as well? They'll do everything to save a buck on any kind of board and sticking undersized BIOS/UEFI chips on them is one of them. They could use larger ones and spend 1 more dollar on each board and even if they charged freaking 5 dollars extra for it to us end users, would anyone seriously noticed it?

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Wow, didnt see that one coming.

 

Pretty awesome, as this means I could potentially get a Zen 3 CPU on my B450 ITX board. Although I would be looking at what type of power consumption it has first...

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1 minute ago, maartendc said:

Wow, didnt see that one coming.

 

Pretty awesome, as this means I could potentially get a Zen 3 CPU on my B450 ITX board. Although I would be looking at what type of power consumption it has first...

The BETA Zen 3 bios for x470 and b450 will remove some Zen 2 and Zen1+ cpu off compatibility and support and no downgrade bios at all if you don't like Zen 3. This is really bad for people upgrade to something like used zen 2 cpu and used b450/x470 board in the future.

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12 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Why only blame AMD when board makers are to be blamed as well? They'll do everything to save a buck on any kind of board and sticking undersized BIOS/UEFI chips on them is one of them. They could use larger ones and spend 1 more dollar on each board and even if they charged freaking 5 dollars extra for it to us end users, would anyone seriously noticed it?

GamersNexus went over it, it's because the 32MB BIOS chips aren't as easy for board makers to buy as the much more common 16MB BIOS chips.

 

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That's neat. 


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1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

GamersNexus went over it, it's because the 32MB BIOS chips aren't as easy for board makers to buy as the much more common 16MB BIOS chips.

 

My board has 32MB bios chips. I hope ASUS not going to drop the ball and remove some Zen 2 and Zen1+ cpu off the compatibility and support on Zen 3 BETA Bios for x470/b450.

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Awesome move really. 


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"Flashing back to an older BIOS version will not be supported."

 

I'm sorry but what stops someone from simply using an EEPROM programmer and just flashing the EEPROM themselves to downgrade if they wanted to?


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2 minutes ago, Hakemon said:

"Flashing back to an older BIOS version will not be supported."

 

I'm sorry but what stops someone from simply using an EEPROM programmer and just flashing the EEPROM themselves to downgrade if they wanted to?

probably a disclaimer of service, just in case people encounter issues with the intent of downgrading their boards? 🤷‍♂️

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Quote

As the team weighted your feedback against the technical challenges we face, we decided to change course. As a result, we will enable an upgrade path for B450 and x470 customers that adds support for next gen AMD Ryzen Processors with the "zen 3" architecture.

So, its looking like AMD had enough of our shit on them because of lack of compatibility for their future AM4 cpus on existing motherboards. They will allow 1 way bios flash for future chips. Once done, it can't be undone, and will erase a lot of earlier gens of cpus from support. AMD will made a special security steps, to make sure people with 3k ryzen or earlier won't update their bios without cpu upgrade in mind and brick their motherboards.

 

 

 

This might be mess, but they at least gave us a chance to get zen 3 on b450 and x470 motherboards which is great. I hope it will work at least decent, to have more succesful than failed transitions from zen 2 to zen 3 on these 2 motherboards

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Should have stuck with Intel for the longer socket support.

Not forcing consumers to buy new mobos is pure greed on AMD's part


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This is great news. Hope AMD really learned from this. It shows that they still listen to their consumers even though we aren't their biggest bread winners anymore. I love that they watch youtube videos and that they read reddit and tweets. I always got the feeling from Intel that they ignore or disregard much of their enthusiast input.

 

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38 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

keep in mind this is A ONE-WAY UPGRADE, so flashing the new BIOS would prevent downgrading to an older version with the required support for initial CPUs

 

39 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

which begs the question: how would secondhand listings play out in the future?

Presumably, one could just dump their original BIOS with a CH341a or similar tool and keep the dump safe somewhere, then install the "one-way upgrade", then flash the dump back on the mobo with the CH341a or similar tool when one wishes to sell the mobo -- no more "one-way!"


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Oh come on AMD! Grow a spine!

 

Those people bitching about it last couple of weeks are enthusiasts and not your real customers. Your real customers needs you to protect them from some mumbo jumbo they can’t handle like this. -_-


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