[Update: Reinforcement has arrived] GPU sag is the least of your worries - Asetek announces PCIe mounted radiator

[justpoet]

5 hours ago, AsetekDennis said:

Hi guys,

 

Thought I'd join in and try to lend a helping hand

First of all, feel free to toss as many questions you want, my way. I'll do my best to answer as much as I possibly can.

 

For the Rad Card, we had a very specific request from Alienware who wanted to optimise on their current GPU Cooling setup, while still remaining true to their unique form-factor. To solve that we came up with the Rad Card.

The card itself (to my knowledge) is built by MSI and the cooler by us. 

 

As for performance the following is the result of Dell's in-house testing:

Noise reduced by up to 69%, Temperature reduced by up to 20%. Up to 6% performance uplift

 

You can read it over here: https://eu.alienwarearena.com/experiences/alienware-aurora-r11

 

Again, any questions (Rad Card or not) feel free to contact me, in thread, PM, Twitter - whatever suits you  )

 

Best,

AsetekDennis

Are there any plans to make the rad unit available outside of the Alienware system?  While it would be very niche, I can think of some custom case builds that could make use of items like this.

 

With that kind of noise reduction, what sorts of rpm limits are on the blower?

 

How effective have you found the new rad/blower when comparing to a single 120 or 140 rad, for example on the exhaust fan spot of a normal case?

[SpaceGhostC2C]

18 hours ago, RejZoR said:

I don't understand the design here. They basically split the cooler from the card and kept it... of exact same size. They are just relocating same capacity.

I see a point in watercooling purely for heat exchange relocation, even with no gains in capacity. But in this case it's being relocated... right next where a beefy air cooler would be anyway. And you give up expansion slots.

I don't know whether it makes sense for Dell specifically due to proprietary form factors or locked-down upgrade options, size/shape constraints, etc. For general use, though... it kind of reminds me of Corsair's H5 SF for ITX builds: technically, you are watercooling, but... what are you doing?

 

[AsetekDennis]

34 minutes ago, justpoet said:

Are there any plans to make the rad unit available outside of the Alienware system?  While it would be very niche, I can think of some custom case builds that could make use of items like this.

 

With that kind of noise reduction, what sorts of rpm limits are on the blower?

 

How effective have you found the new rad/blower when comparing to a single 120 or 140 rad, for example on the exhaust fan spot of a normal case?

Initially it's Alienware unique. However, we'll of course listen to AiBs and if we scope an interest in it as a stand-a-lone for DIY, we could probably figure out a way to make that happen (though it would require some sort of limitation, like FE only or similar).

 

Dell / Alienware's testing has showed them the following:

Up to 69% reduction in noise

Up to 20% temp drop

Up to 6% performance increase.

 

More info: https://eu.alienwarearena.com/experiences/alienware-aurora-r11

 

Speaking to the effectiveness, we've found, in-house, that it roughly compares to a 120mm in an open-air setup. Now this all comes down to fan-speeds, test suites etc.

So to be frank, it's hard to give a one-size-fits-all blanket style answer  

 

The RPM blower can scale as you (or the board) wants it to. I believe it ranges from something like a few hundred RPM to around 5000 at the top (which I haven't tried it at... because... 5000 RPM). It's practically not necessary but allows it to run, reasonably, quiet at lower RPM and for someone who just doesn't care about noise levels to go mental  

[DildorTheDecent]

So a RTX 2080 Super with the blower (which is what the R10 used) would run at around 84C load as per various postings on the Dell forums and wherever else tested blower RTX 2080 Supers. After all, it's a lot of GPU for a blower and blowers are generally garbage.

 

If this drops the temps by "up to 20%" Then that's still a load temp of around 67C. I hope the costs developing this product were low enough to justify this reduction of barely 20C. 67C for a liquid cooled GPU is unacceptable imo.

[Letgomyleghoe]

12 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Aurora R9 case looks really cool. I still wouldn't buy it though.

Look Arent everything, especially when there’s little airflow

[Letgomyleghoe]

11 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

The cooler is probably going to work better than the heat radiation from the card itself in to the case, non-issue..?

I was just saying, on a traditional radiator, the heat is exhausted out of the case, this one however is exhausting heat into the case, The cpu aio will suck up all that fun gpu heat getting blow straight up at it.

[AsetekDennis]

18 minutes ago, scuff gang said:

I was just saying, on a traditional radiator, the heat is exhausted out of the case, this one however is exhausting heat into the case, The cpu aio will suck up all that fun gpu heat getting blow straight up at it.

Well, actually this card exhausts the heat out of the case

[Letgomyleghoe]

5 minutes ago, AsetekDennis said:

Well, actually this card exhausts the heat out of the case

What about that massive radiator on top, I know that blowers exhaust heat out of the case, but what’s the point of making it a blower if there’s a radiator on top

[AsetekDennis]

1 minute ago, scuff gang said:

What about that massive radiator on top, I know that blowers exhaust heat out of the case, but what’s the point of making it a blower if there’s a radiator on top

Not exactly sure where you seem to imply the rad is?

But for clarification:

 

Top card is a "traditional" hybrid GPU build.

Tubes exit to bottom card along with a fan-control cable (that has been hidden in the sleeving)

Bottom card is a custom made radiator, that fits in the PCI form-factor (and is located at the "end" of the card - closest to the PCI slots on the back of the case) with a blower in the usual spot of blower cards  

[Letgomyleghoe]

4 minutes ago, AsetekDennis said:

Not exactly sure where you seem to imply the rad is?

But for clarification:

 

Top card is a "traditional" hybrid GPU build.

Tubes exit to bottom card along with a fan-control cable (that has been hidden in the sleeving)

Bottom card is a custom made radiator, that fits in the PCI form-factor (and is located at the "end" of the card - closest to the PCI slots on the back of the case) with a blower in the usual spot of blower cards  

There ya go, some clarification, it was assumed that that bottom card was the gpu earlier due to the blower, but that makes more sense.

[AsetekDennis]

1 minute ago, scuff gang said:

There ya go, some clarification, it was assumed that that bottom card was the gpu earlier due to the blower, but that makes more sense.

Ohh, well that just goes to show how pictures can screw everything up.

 

Having looked at it so much, I figured it was common sense - but now that you say it, I get why it isn't  

Again, any questions about this or other Asetek products, feel free to let me know. Happy to help  

[justpoet]

46 minutes ago, AsetekDennis said:

Ohh, well that just goes to show how pictures can screw everything up.

 

Having looked at it so much, I figured it was common sense - but now that you say it, I get why it isn't  

Again, any questions about this or other Asetek products, feel free to let me know. Happy to help  

Are you able to discuss weight of the rad/blower while full?

Have you done any reinforcing to help prevent sag of a metal and liquid block hanging on the PCI slot?

Does it actually connect electrically to the PCI slot for power at all, or just headers to plug in elsewhere as normal?

[AsetekDennis]

16 minutes ago, justpoet said:

Are you able to discuss weight of the rad/blower while full?

Have you done any reinforcing to help prevent sag of a metal and liquid block hanging on the PCI slot?

Does it actually connect electrically to the PCI slot for power at all, or just headers to plug in elsewhere as normal?

I'm actually getting a few cards to my desk within a few days, will be able to better comment on weight then  

 

So the main weight is carried by the PCI bracket and the inner structure of the card. Shouldn't sag to my knowledge.It's lighter than a normal 2 slot card.

 

It doesn't connect to the PCI slot electrically, but rather there's a PWM controller under the sleeving to the GPU that is then controlled by the onboard header on the GPU. However I could think of a thing or two to use the PCI for electrically 

[Bombastinator]

On 5/13/2020 at 5:27 PM, Dabombinable said:

Triple slot blower?

Looking at sizing more like a 5 slot.  With a 5 slot you get a square so you could do push pull fans front and back and get Mac Pro cooling and noise levels.  No stupid extra thin fans.  Do it right.  It would hang off the bottom of miniatx, there are miniatx cases it would fit though.  Itx off the table.  This is true of the current design though so nothing is lost.  Just better cheaper more reliable design.

[GOTSpectrum]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:45 PM, AsetekDennis said:

Again, any questions about this or other Asetek products, feel free to let me know. Happy to help  

My question is, not about the product, but why aren't you listed as an industry affiliate on the forum? 

[Trik'Stari]

facepalm

 

Please don't buy Dell products, they aren't worth what they charge. If you want a reason, try to find the Dell training video on how to apply thermal paste to a CPU.

 

Basically, according to Dell, for something the size of an LGA1150 CPU, you want to take an entire tube of thermal paste to it, in a spiraling pattern.

 

That's right, an entire tube, in a spiral. That's an official Dell training guide. Or at least it was 2 years ago.

[Trik'Stari]

And here I was designing a 3D printed GPU support that would contain the Phanteks Neon RGB strip, because I thought it would look hella kewl beyind some plastic with an industrial design or grill to shine through.

 

Also because I thought the GPU support brackets available on Thingiverse were lacking in the "awesome as hell" department.

[Dash Lambda]

You guys want an actual solution to GPU sag? Like, a real, systemic, non-patchwork solution? It's remarkably simple: Horizontal motherboard trays.

 

I have no idea why they aren't more common. It just makes so much more sense.

[Dabombinable]

3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

facepalm

 

Please don't buy Dell products, they aren't worth what they charge. If you want a reason, try to find the Dell training video on how to apply thermal paste to a CPU.

 

Basically, according to Dell, for something the size of an LGA1150 CPU, you want to take an entire tube of thermal paste to it, in a spiraling pattern.

 

That's right, an entire tube, in a spiral. That's an official Dell training guide. Or at least it was 2 years ago.

I do know that the school my Mum works at has started switching from Dell to HP machines, due to the plethora of hardware issues they've been having. At the same time though the school also refuses to allow teachers to connect their own laptops (or Windows tablets) that actually work more than 50% of the time (and in a lot of cases, are more secure).

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Dash Lambda said:

You guys want an actual solution to GPU sag? Like, a real, systemic, non-patchwork solution? It's remarkably simple: Horizontal motherboard trays.

 

I have no idea why they aren't more common. It just makes so much more sense.

They did used to be a thing and are how motherboards were originally designed.  They make for computers what take a heckuva lotta desk space though.  No one wants to build computers like that.

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

facepalm

 

Please don't buy Dell products, they aren't worth what they charge. If you want a reason, try to find the Dell training video on how to apply thermal paste to a CPU.

 

Basically, according to Dell, for something the size of an LGA1150 CPU, you want to take an entire tube of thermal paste to it, in a spiraling pattern.

 

That's right, an entire tube, in a spiral. That's an official Dell training guide. Or at least it was 2 years ago.

More facepalm.  How old is 1150? 15 years?

[Dash Lambda]

15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

They did used to be a thing and are how motherboards were originally designed.  They make for computers what take a heckuva lotta desk space though.  No one wants to build computers like that.

They don't really take up that much desk space. About double the footprint of a normal mid-tower.

I don't just want to build computers like that, I will not tolerate anything less for my personal rig.

EDIT: You also don't need to put it on your desk. You'd be surprised where you can fit a neat little cube.

[Trik'Stari]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

More facepalm.  How old is 1150? 15 years?

Like I said, the video was in use at least 2 years ago.

[Trik'Stari]

3 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

I do know that the school my Mum works at has started switching from Dell to HP machines, due to the plethora of hardware issues they've been having. At the same time though the school also refuses to allow teachers to connect their own laptops (or Windows tablets) that actually work more than 50% of the time (and in a lot of cases, are more secure).

School I.T. are usually handicapped by not being able to set policy themselves, at least the ones I've worked with. Usually the policy decisions are made by the idiotic school board who know nothing about technology, and pick the shiniest thing they see that meets their budget requirements.

 

Far too often that results in chromebooks, which are honestly the biggest piles of garbage imaginable. They're a pain to administrate and have little to no actual use beyond general browsing and data entry. Not to mention being so cheaply made that they'll end up spending 3x what they expected in repairs. Although that can vary a bit if the schools actually enforce policy and charge the parents for breakages. Some are afraid of being sued for some reason, despite requiring the parents to sign an agreement, wherein the parents agree to pay for all breakages past the first one, at the beginning of each school year.

 

Personally I like Lenovo machines. They're reasonably durable, can have good specs, and unlike HP, Lenovo doesn't constantly stand in the way of repairs.

[bcredeur97]

idk about you guys but I rather have my PCIe slot for... you know... PCIe things and not a freaking radiator