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COVID-19 - READ THE RULES BEFORE REPLYING

WkdPaul
5 hours ago, Sauron said:

No, because the seasonal flu doesn't overwhelm the healthcare system and it has a significantly lower death rate.

Amazingly, so many people can't see the difference between "you can't go mountain climbing" and "you can't go mountain climbing during a snow storm".

Mountain climbing is always a risk to you, sure. Now ask any rescue service worker why there are time when it's totatlly fined and times when it will get you a hefty fine...

 

 

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Honestly besides Italy and Spain, healthcare systems weren't overwhelmed at all because of this disease - and truth be told what happened in those two countries was mostly due to a bad initial response to the virus by the people governing. 

But by saying that, you are acknowledging the link between healthcare systems being overwhelmed and the response to the outbreak, said link implying that "doing nothing" ends up in healthcare collapse. Which I think it's the original point. None of the measures Italy or Spain could allegedly have taken would be necessary to prevent their healthcare systems from being overwhelmed by the flu.

 

2 hours ago, StDragon said:

 

Elon is truly a visionary. I'm frankly amazed he's gotten this far. If anything, he will be noted more for SpaceX as I believe that will be his long lasting legacy whereas Tesla will retain pop-culture.

I think his legacy will always be PayPal, but we'll see ^_^

 

2 hours ago, StDragon said:

Anyways, yeah, he definitely fits the mold of Howard Hughes. Hopefully he doesn't snap into pure insanity.

I think you got a glimpse of what I was hinting at :P 

 

45 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Yeah, and there was nothing remotely socialist about the German Nazi National Socialism either.

Exactly. I mean, there were some traces, but you could say the same about China.

 

45 minutes ago, StDragon said:

You stepped in it. Let me teach you something. Communism is fascism, and Fascism is fascism.

Wait, you forgot that Capitalism is communism, and communism is fascism. And you know what? Vegetarianism is capitalism, which is communism, which is fascism! Even more, liberalism is vegetarianism, which is... :D 

 

Now let me tell you a little secret: totalitarianism is totalitarianism. Two totalitarian regimes don't need to have anything in common other than being totalitarian. You know how we summarize some of those other characteristics? With words like communism, capitalism (there is no shortage of capitalist totalitarian regimes in history, starting with 90% of Latin American dictatorships)...

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1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Exactly. I mean, there were some traces, but you could say the same about China.

 

Wait, you forgot that Capitalism is communism, and communism is fascism. And you know what? Vegetarianism is capitalism, which is communism, which is fascism! Even more, liberalism is vegetarianism, which is... :D 

 

Now let me tell you a little secret: totalitarianism is totalitarianism. Two totalitarian regimes don't need to have anything in common other than being totalitarian. You know how we summarize some of those other characteristics? With words like communism, capitalism (there is no shortage of capitalist totalitarian regimes in history, starting with 90% of Latin American dictatorships)...

You know, it really comes down to an axiomatic truism. There are two types of people; those that wish to control the lives of others, and those that don't.

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18 hours ago, TempestCatto said:

with weather that's too hot to boot

The weather is not too bad IMO. I prefer a rather warm summer more than, for example, being stuck in a snowstorm in winter or something

 

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19 hours ago, SenKa said:

Necessary "Lets keep this civilized" comment here.

Losing Tesla, though impactful, wouldn't kill Cali. They still have all of silicon valley, and losing one wouldn't kill anybody. The losers would be Tesla's employees being unemployed.

Tesla’s employees would likely just move to the new location unless the factory were shipped overseas.

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1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Yeah, and there was nothing remotely socialist about the German Nazi National Socialism either.

There wasn't. Hitler specifically despised socialists and communists and some of the first people to be deported into death camps where socialists. He only used the word "socialist" in the party name to try and rack up a few more votes and to please the Strasserites (who he then murdered in the night of the long knives). Not that nazbols are actually socialist but they often believe they are.

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

You stepped in it. Let me teach you something. Communism is fascism, and Fascism is fascism.

I'm sorry but someone who unironically believes this cannot teach me or anyone else anything about politics. You have no idea what fascism or communism are if you think they are the same or even remotely close. They are by definition diametrically opposed. You cannot in the same breath assert that you want to abolish class divides and also that people should be divided into castes depending on their "race" or nationality.

1 hour ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Still, we have people elected in our countries to be able to soundly decide what's best, based on information provided by people like virologists. Unelected people making nationwide policies undermine fundamentals of democracy, so we should just be careful about what we do.

I literally never advocated for abolishing democracy in favor of a technocratic government of scientists... I'm attacking specific politicians here, not the concept of electoral politics.

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33 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

But by saying that, you are acknowledging the link between healthcare systems being overwhelmed and the response to the outbreak, said link implying that "doing nothing" ends up in healthcare collapse. Which I think it's the original point.

I don't think anyone disagreed that the response to the outbreak is important. I'm just starting to have questions about how exactly effective was/is mass quarantine and economic shutdown compared to other ways of mitigating the spread of the virus. Since this isn't a well-studied topic yet, because it's never been done, the answers to those questions aren't obvious. What already happened in the world will have long-term and far-reaching consequences to many millions of people in the world, and it's still not over.

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- Threads Merged -

Merged the discussion about Elon Musk's tweet in with the existing discussion on COVID-19 since discussion was purely focused on COVID-19.

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7 hours ago, Sauron said:

No, because the seasonal flu doesn't overwhelm the healthcare system and it has a significantly lower death rate.

But drunk driving increases the chance of killing someone by a few orders of magnitude.

Which is why, as I said, the "choice" you propose wouldn't really be a choice at all. It would just be sacrificing the lives of the poor and unemployed.

As I said, there should be safety nets from the government that don't involve risking your life and the lives of others in order to go to work.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. If someone goes out and works it's not like they are going to start rubbing their hands on everything and start rubbing peoples faces. They will still follow social distancing like they are supposed to just like people who go to the store to buy essentials do. You act like people going back to work is all of a sudden dramatically increase the spread when that really isn't the case. Also this hasn't overwhelmed the healthcare system and there are often cases where the opposite is true. Nobody wants to risk going to the hospital right now so alot of hospitals are particularly empty. Also the flu kills alot every year and this is basically a slightly more severe flu so I do not see what the difference is tbh. Also safety nets are cool and all but alot of people are not properly covered by the government safety net and it doesn't do much good when all of this is said and done and they now have no job because their place of work went under as a result of the prolonged shutdown. 

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11 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

This doesn't make sense to me at all. If someone goes out and works it's not like they are going to start rubbing their hands on everything and start rubbing peoples faces. They will still follow social distancing like they are supposed to just like people who go to the store to buy essentials do. You act like people going back to work is all of a sudden dramatically increase the spread when that really isn't the case.

You can't effectively follow social distancing if you have 50 people working side by side in a cramped open space office. People going back to work also means people using cramped public transport, people bumping each other in corridors, people sharing public toilets. If you reopen without slowing down the spread first then it's just going to accelerate almost as quickly as before. As I mentioned Italy is reopening and I'm going to work but we're taking turns to make sure offices aren't crowded and the spread is currently much lower than in the US.

15 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also this hasn't overwhelmed the healthcare system and there are often cases where the opposite is true. Nobody wants to risk going to the hospital right now so alot of hospitals are particularly empty.

It literally has here, for a brief period we didn't have enough beds and personnel to take care of everyone - it only got better thanks to the lockdown. And you'd better believe if you're coughing your lungs out and can't breathe you're going to need a hospital. If people can't afford it because the healthcare system in the US is fucked that's quite a different problem.

17 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also the flu kills alot every year and this is basically a slightly more severe flu so I do not see what the difference is tbh.

No. It's. Not. I already went over this, this is either orders of magnitude more contagious than the flu or much deadlier and in both cases it's significantly worse and a significant strain on the healthcare system if left unchecked. Not to mention we have flu shots but we don't have covid19 shots. You can sit in denial all you like but this isn't up for debate unless you want to contradict every virologist and every epidemiologist on the planet.

20 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also safety nets are cool and all but alot of people are not properly covered by the government safety net

Yeah, guess whose fault that is.

21 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

it doesn't do much good when all of this is said and done and they now have no job because their place of work went under as a result of the prolonged shutdown.

A safety net doesn't mean a bit of cash in case of a pandemic, it means that people without a job are supported by the government for as long as they need to find a job. Under normal circumstances unemployment isn't very high, especially in the US, so finding a new job when this is over should not be a huge problem. Also Tesla literally relies on government funding to stay afloat already so the very least they can do is keep their workers and pay them as usual for however long is needed. My place of work has done this and it's nowhere near as large or well funded as Tesla which literally has a billionaire as CEO and gets government subsidies.

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4 hours ago, willies leg said:

Spoken as a true follower, not a leader. To each his own.

I suggest you read the Community Standards and thread rules.

 

Being condescending is against the rules.

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3 hours ago, StDragon said:

 Then here, let me help you out.

Yes, having proper public policies against wet markets was totally beyond their control. Which BTW makes it all the more worrisome. It wasn't like they were trying to split atoms or anything complicated. Go to China and then tell me how clean it is (it's not).

 

There's a reason we have a CDC and FDA in America...

 

Yeah, and there was nothing remotely socialist about the German Nazi National Socialism either.

 

You stepped in it. Let me teach you something. Communism is fascism, and Fascism is fascism. The difference is one side hides their true intention whereas the other doesn't. Essentially, they're all sides of the same coin, totalitarianism. 

 

You got schooled!

so when is america going to get sanctioned for the spanish flu (started in america not spain btw) and swine flu. 

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16 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

so when is america going to get sanctioned for the spanish flu (started in america not spain btw) and swine flu. 

Probably around the same time Germany gets sanctioned for rubella and South Korea gets sanctioned for hantavirus.

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1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

so when is america going to get sanctioned for the spanish flu (started in america not spain btw) and swine flu. 

I dunno. Was there a concerted effort to obfuscate, cover up, and outright lie about it?

 

The issue isn't where it originated insomuch how it was sandbagged by an entire nation-state. That's the real travesty of it all! The WHO was bought out by Chinese influence to not call this a pandemic when it by any measure was, in fact, a pandemic! It was only through the blessing of the term ("pandemic") by the WHO where it was too late for most nations to take official pro-active measures. And that's another thing, nations shouldn't have to treat the WHO as gospel. Each nation has not only a right, but an obligation to protect its own citizens.

 

TL;DR, so much fail all around the world. Frankly, it's sad state of affairs; the cowardice and gross incompetence of the entire planet!

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21 minutes ago, StDragon said:

I dunno. Was there a concerted effort to obfuscate, cover up, and outright lie about it?

 

The issue isn't where it originated insomuch how it was sandbagged by an entire nation-state. That's the real travesty of it all! The WHO was bought out by Chinese influence to not call this a pandemic when it by any measure was, in fact, a pandemic! It was only through the blessing of the term ("pandemic") by the WHO where it was too late for most nations to take official pro-active measures. And that's another thing, nations shouldn't have to treat the WHO as gospel. Each nation has not only a right, but an obligation to protect its own citizens.

 

TL;DR, so much fail all around the world. Frankly, it's sad state of affairs; the cowardice and gross incompetence of the entire planet!

The Spanish Flu is called that because Spain, as a non-participant in WWI, was one of the few countries that wasn't censoring the news.  It became the scapegoat for a larger problem.

 

And I think we need real, tangible evidence that the Chinese forced the WHO to avoid calling it a pandemic.  So far, it seems like a lot of handwaving and wanting to (you guessed it) find a scapegoat when there's really an international string of failures involved.

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34 minutes ago, Commodus said:

And I think we need real, tangible evidence that the Chinese forced the WHO to avoid calling it a pandemic.  So far, it seems like a lot of handwaving and wanting to (you guessed it) find a scapegoat when there's really an international string of failures involved.

You're not going to get that official declaration as that requires Chinese cooperation, so forget about that fantasy. You can weigh the evidence, but that's it. But in short, nothing will come of this. There will not be some international condemnation. There way too much money involved. Even the EU allowed itself to be censored by China.

 

And that's what we currently know...

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8 minutes ago, StDragon said:

You're not going to get that official declaration as that requires Chinese cooperation, so forget about that fantasy. You can weigh the evidence, but that's it. But in short, nothing will come of this. There will not be some international condemnation. There way too much money involved. Even the EU allowed itself to be censored by China.

 

And that's what we currently know...

Couldn't find evidence of the WHO being corrupted by China on that fist link.

 

The second link talks about an editorial published in a Chinese new paper ... you're aware that all Chinese media outlet are run by the CCP right? How is that news ? "News being censored in China" was obviously a weak title, so the clickbait title of "The EU has admitted it let China censor an op-ed by the bloc's ambassadors". It's pretty sad to see but then again, not surprised.

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3 hours ago, Sauron said:

You can't effectively follow social distancing if you have 50 people working side by side in a cramped open space office. People going back to work also means people using cramped public transport, people bumping each other in corridors, people sharing public toilets. If you reopen without slowing down the spread first then it's just going to accelerate almost as quickly as before. As I mentioned Italy is reopening and I'm going to work but we're taking turns to make sure offices aren't crowded and the spread is currently much lower than in the US.

It literally has here, for a brief period we didn't have enough beds and personnel to take care of everyone - it only got better thanks to the lockdown. And you'd better believe if you're coughing your lungs out and can't breathe you're going to need a hospital. If people can't afford it because the healthcare system in the US is fucked that's quite a different problem.

No. It's. Not. I already went over this, this is either orders of magnitude more contagious than the flu or much deadlier and in both cases it's significantly worse and a significant strain on the healthcare system if left unchecked. Not to mention we have flu shots but we don't have covid19 shots. You can sit in denial all you like but this isn't up for debate unless you want to contradict every virologist and every epidemiologist on the planet.

Yeah, guess whose fault that is.

A safety net doesn't mean a bit of cash in case of a pandemic, it means that people without a job are supported by the government for as long as they need to find a job. Under normal circumstances unemployment isn't very high, especially in the US, so finding a new job when this is over should not be a huge problem. Also Tesla literally relies on government funding to stay afloat already so the very least they can do is keep their workers and pay them as usual for however long is needed. My place of work has done this and it's nowhere near as large or well funded as Tesla which literally has a billionaire as CEO and gets government subsidies.

Obviously if you can work from home than do so but for places like Tesla that isn't an option so that is why they should have the right to choose of they want to open up if they want. Also you we are talking about California in this case and they do not have a large public transportation system like say New York or Chicago so the issue of spread due to public transportation is not that bad. It should also be noted that the US while we have much higher healthcare cost we also have higher capacity as well so again not the same issue either and in Italy they were not properly doing social distancing and taking it seriously at the start which resulted in a surge. Also the statistics on the virus are pretty much all skewed because of lack of testing and lack of widespread antibody tests. It may look like it is deadly but that is because the amount of people who have gotten the virus is much larger than the amount of people tested so really the death rate is much lower than it is shown in statistics. Also if you take into account the majority of deaths is in the elderly then there really is no reason to worry if you are young and healthy especially now that they know the biggest cause of complications in younger people with the virus getting really sick is due to the immune system overreaction and they can combat this with drugs and prevent it from getting bad. And if the virus spreads in the people who can fight it off then you can reach herd immunity and actually have the vulnerable stay isolated until that happens and actually make them safe. And the flu shoot is sorta like Russian roulette as there are so many variants that often times the fou shot won't help at all with the variant that is prevalent during a flu season. Anyways I already had the virus and while it was bad I don't believe it is really any worse than pneumonia. And I didn't go to the hospital because the only people that go to the hospital are the ones in serious condition. 

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1 hour ago, StDragon said:

I dunno. Was there a concerted effort to obfuscate, cover up, and outright lie about it?

 

The issue isn't where it originated insomuch how it was sandbagged by an entire nation-state. That's the real travesty of it all! The WHO was bought out by Chinese influence to not call this a pandemic when it by any measure was, in fact, a pandemic! It was only through the blessing of the term ("pandemic") by the WHO where it was too late for most nations to take official pro-active measures. And that's another thing, nations shouldn't have to treat the WHO as gospel. Each nation has not only a right, but an obligation to protect its own citizens.

 

TL;DR, so much fail all around the world. Frankly, it's sad state of affairs; the cowardice and gross incompetence of the entire planet!

china tried to cover it up for like a week back in January. it didnt start picking up steam here in the US until march. i dont see how you can argue that the US didnt get ample warning. china was shutting down its economy and putting everyone in lockdown way before it started spreading in the US and people are calling it a hoax even now. and i doubt it was china's influence over whether to call it a pandemic its probably more the US influence in order not to scare the stock market 

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12 hours ago, Spotty said:

A car manufacturer complaining about local laws and Government orders relating to COVID-19 on twitter is not Tech News

Kind of is as it is a tech based car

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1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

Couldn't find evidence of the WHO being corrupted by China on that fist link.

 

The second link talks about an editorial published in a Chinese new paper ... you're aware that all Chinese media outlet are run by the CCP right? How is that news ? "News being censored in China" was obviously a weak title, so the clickbait title of "The EU has admitted it let China censor an op-ed by the bloc's ambassadors". It's pretty sad to see but then again, not surprised.

So there's no direct evidence per se. But the backpedaling of WHO in a chain of events looks to be anything but happenstance at this point. As for the original link to Wired, yeah, I mean that's just blatant censorship. Do you really think they wouldn't attempt censorship of the WHO? China is the second largest contributor after the US.

 

https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/the-world-health-organization-bows-china

 

And then there's Bill Gates whom contributes to the WHO as well (very large private contributor via BMGF). This is what he had to say...

Quote

"China did a lot of things right at the beginning, like any country where a virus first shows up"-Bill Gates

"Some countries did respond very quickly and get their testing in place and they avoided incredible economic pain and it’s sad that even the US, where you would expect to do this well, did this poorly" -Bill Gates

The criticism of the US is fair. But the boot-licking from Bill Gates is not unexpected.

 

I predict a lot more Chinese boot-licking in the years to come. That should worry you and everyone else that values freedom of expression and democracy. It's already apparent in Hollywood production and influence on US universities. If not already, expect there to be such covert censorship against games too published in the West.

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1 hour ago, Brooksie359 said:

Also if you take into account the majority of deaths is in the elderly then there really is no reason to worry if you are young and healthy especially now that they know the biggest cause of complications in younger people with the virus getting really sick is due to the immune system overreaction and they can combat this with drugs and prevent it from getting bad. And if the virus spreads in the people who can fight it off then you can reach herd immunity and actually have the vulnerable stay isolated until that happens and actually make them safe. And the flu shoot is sorta like Russian roulette as there are so many variants that often times the fou shot won't help at all with the variant that is prevalent during a flu season. Anyways I already had the virus and while it was bad I don't believe it is really any worse than pneumonia. And I didn't go to the hospital because the only people that go to the hospital are the ones in serious condition. 

Please stop repeating these attempts to downplay the virus.

 

Deaths are much higher than they are for the flu, no matter what the exact case fatality rate is.  And more importantly, deaths aren't the only concern.  There are many, many more people who've had to be hospitalized for it, some of them "young and healthy," and some of them with permanent damage to their lungs or other systems.  You talk about Russian roulette with the flu, but have you considered that many of us would rather not play Russian roulette with our ability to breathe just so we could say we went to the mall?

 

Herd immunity (through natural responses or vaccines) is fine, but only when it's achieved over a long period through, you guessed it, carefully managed lockdowns.  Scientific modelling shows that a laissez-faire approach not only leads to many more deaths owed directly to the virus (2.2 million in the US versus 100K-200K), but that it would overwhelm even high-capacity hospital systems at the height of infections.  That is, there would be a very real possibility that you would be forced to die at home from a serious medical condition (COVID-19 or otherwise) because none of your local hospitals would have room.  That peak might only last a few weeks, but that's a few weeks of seeing people hauled out in bodybags for conditions that could have been treated.

 

Also, did you really just claim that your individual experience with the virus is representative of what most non-hospitalized cases are like?  I'm glad to hear you recovered, but I will always trust aggregated medical data over one person's anecdote.  There's mountains of evidence that some survivors endure something "worse than pneumonia."

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3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Please stop repeating these attempts to downplay the virus.

 

Deaths are much higher than they are for the flu, no matter what the exact case fatality rate is.  And more importantly, deaths aren't the only concern.  There are many, many more people who've had to be hospitalized for it, some of them "young and healthy," and some of them with permanent damage to their lungs or other systems.  You talk about Russian roulette with the flu, but have you considered that many of us would rather not play Russian roulette with our ability to breathe just so we could say we went to the mall?

 

Herd immunity (through natural responses or vaccines) is fine, but only when it's achieved over a long period through, you guessed it, carefully managed lockdowns.  Scientific modelling shows that a laissez-faire approach not only leads to many more deaths owed directly to the virus (2.2 million in the US versus 100K-200K), but that it would overwhelm even high-capacity hospital systems at the height of infections.  That is, there would be a very real possibility that you would be forced to die at home from a serious medical condition (COVID-19 or otherwise) because none of your local hospitals would have room.  That peak might only last a few weeks, but that's a few weeks of seeing people hauled out in bodybags for conditions that could have been treated.

 

Also, did you really just claim that your individual experience with the virus is representative of what most non-hospitalized cases are like?  I'm glad to hear you recovered, but I will always trust aggregated medical data over one person's anecdote.  There's mountains of evidence that some survivors endure something "worse than pneumonia."

First off I am not downplaying the virus but rather curbing the fear mongering that is going on. If you look at the statistics it's pretty clear that if you are healthy and not part of a group that is at risk you are pretty unlikely to die of the virus. More often than not the cases where young people have died was because of an autoimmune overreaction and that is preventable by using steroids so not a huge deal as long as you get treatment. I am part of a vulnerable group as I have asthma and did have the overeating autoimmune response that typically happens about a week after mild symptoms and because I had steroids to suppress my immune system i ended up being fine. And yeah your lungs get scared a bit afterwards even when you recovered like it was for me but that heals over time just like the scarring that happens from pneumonia. Also those models you referenced have been mostly wrong up until this point so their accuracy is questionable at best especially with the limited data we have. Anyways the scarring part is irrelevant anyways as in all likelihood the shutdown won't stop the spread and most people will get it eventually regardless. Also fun fact hospitals have been attributing deaths to the corinova virus because they get subsidized by the government for it and because the hospitals are so empty they sorta have to do that to stop them from laying off nurses and doctors. So again our statistics are completely flawed and not really trustworthy. I mean look at my state for example they only test people who are hospitalized or work in certain industries like the healthcare industry. It wasn't like that at the beginning but that was when there were only a handful of cases in the entire state. Also we are not talking about going to the mall for fun but rather letting people get back to work. You may think that this is saving lives but unfortunately when the economy tanks and unemployment rises so does the suicide rate.

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3 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

First off I am not downplaying the virus but rather curbing the fear mongering that is going on. If you look at the statistics it's pretty clear that if you are healthy and not part of a group that is at risk you are pretty unlikely to die of the virus. More often than not the cases where young people have died was because of an autoimmune overreaction and that is preventable by using steroids so not a huge deal as long as you get treatment. I am part of a vulnerable group as I have asthma and did have the overeating autoimmune response that typically happens about a week after mild symptoms and because I had steroids to suppress my immune system i ended up being fine. And yeah your lungs get scared a bit afterwards even when you recovered like it was for me but that heals over time just like the scarring that happens from pneumonia. Also those models you referenced have been mostly wrong up until this point so their accuracy is questionable at best especially with the limited data we have. Anyways the scarring part is irrelevant anyways as in all likelihood the shutdown won't stop the spread and most people will get it eventually regardless. Also fun fact hospitals have been attributing deaths to the corinova virus because they get subsidized by the government for it and because the hospitals are so empty they sorta have to do that to stop them from laying off nurses and doctors. So again our statistics are completely flawed and not really trustworthy. I mean look at my state for example they only test people who are hospitalized or work in certain industries like the healthcare industry. It wasn't like that at the beginning but that was when there were only a handful of cases in the entire state. Also we are not talking about going to the mall for fun but rather letting people get back to work. You may think that this is saving lives but unfortunately when the economy tanks and unemployment rises so does the suicide rate.

Before anything else: please learn how to write paragraphs.  Your replies are hard to read because they're basically one long stream-of-consciousness dialogue.  Try organizing your responses into groups of a few sentences each, unified around a common thought.

 

Now, on to the main subject: "I am not downplaying the virus..." proceeds to downplay the virus.

 

It's not fearmongering to point out that the virus is much more dangerous than the flu.  And again, "pretty unlikely to die" and your personal anecdotes aren't very reassuring.  I'm not strictly worried that I'm going to die; I'm worried that I'll be a shut-in because I won't have the lung capacity to make it past my apartment parking lot.  Steroids worked for you, but that doesn't mean they'll work for everyone.  One of the very problems of COVID-19 is that it has wildly varying effects.  Some people feel no symptoms at all; some have the worst fever of their lives; some go to hospital with varying recovery levels; and of course, some die.  You may have only emerged with scarred lungs, but others have had serious, permanent (let me repeat that: permanent) damage to their lungs, heart or more.  One Broadway actor had a leg amputated due to complications from the virus.

 

The scientific models are just fine, by the way.  The whole point is that these models change based on our response to the disease -- a "do nothing" approach would no longer claim 2.2 million lives because lockdown measures have skewed that outcome.  Hospitals are below capacity precisely because the measures are working.  SciShow had a great video on this (shared earlier in the thread) that you really should watch:

 

 

And have you not been paying attention to this thread?  Shutdowns were never meant to completely stop the spread.  Repeat that in your head until you understand that it's completely true.  They're meant to minimize easily avoidable infections, keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and buy time until there are tested and readily available vaccines and/or treatments.  And you know what's worse than having the economy tank due to one long lockdown?  Having to implement another lockdown because the first ended prematurely.  Don't let impatience override reason; it's better to have one lockdown that lasts a while than to make people wonder how many weeks they have of pseudo-normalcy before they need to retreat again.

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1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Before anything else: please learn how to write paragraphs.  Your replies are hard to read because they're basically one long stream-of-consciousness dialogue.  Try organizing your responses into groups of a few sentences each, unified around a common thought.

 

Now, on to the main subject: "I am not downplaying the virus..." proceeds to downplay the virus.

 

It's not fearmongering to point out that the virus is much more dangerous than the flu.  And again, "pretty unlikely to die" and your personal anecdotes aren't very reassuring.  I'm not strictly worried that I'm going to die; I'm worried that I'll be a shut-in because I won't have the lung capacity to make it past my apartment parking lot.  Steroids worked for you, but that doesn't mean they'll work for everyone.  One of the very problems of COVID-19 is that it has wildly varying effects.  Some people feel no symptoms at all; some have the worst fever of their lives; some go to hospital with varying recovery levels; and of course, some die.  You may have only emerged with scarred lungs, but others have had serious, permanent (let me repeat that: permanent) damage to their lungs, heart or more.  One Broadway actor had a leg amputated due to complications from the virus.

 

The scientific models are just fine, by the way.  The whole point is that these models change based on our response to the disease -- a "do nothing" approach would no longer claim 2.2 million lives because lockdown measures have skewed that outcome.  Hospitals are below capacity precisely because the measures are working.  SciShow had a great video on this (shared earlier in the thread) that you really should watch:

 

 

And have you not been paying attention to this thread?  Shutdowns were never meant to completely stop the spread.  Repeat that in your head until you understand that it's completely true.  They're meant to minimize easily avoidable infections, keep hospitals from being overwhelmed and buy time until there are tested and readily available vaccines and/or treatments.  And you know what's worse than having the economy tank due to one long lockdown?  Having to implement another lockdown because the first ended prematurely.  Don't let impatience override reason; it's better to have one lockdown that lasts a while than to make people wonder how many weeks they have of pseudo-normalcy before they need to retreat again.

Just look at the number and don't say I am just going base off my experience. The stats clearly show that the people who are dying are overwhelmingly the people who are part of a vulnerable group. If you aren't apart of one then the likelyhood of you dying is low. I mean it's not like there isn't a country doing just what I am suggesting. Look at Sweden they have been just fine having their country open and functioning. If anything the places that are being heavily effected are nursing homes and someone going to work in a Tesla factory isn't going to suddenly spread it to the nursing home. The vast majority of deaths are people above 80 years old which is higher than the average person lives and the normal flu kills people in this demographic every year so what makes this any different? Should we shutdown the country every flu season just because old people die of the flu? I find it sorta ridiculous that people honestly believe that the death toll is going to be any different if we have it spread over the next 12 months vs having it all in the next three or so months. To make matters worse most predictions show that with the way things are going now with us all being on shutdown it will only make the resurgence in the fall worse. Then what are we going to do? Shutdown everything again? I mean the unemployment rate has reached the great depression level and supply lines are being stressed but I guess that doesn't matter because if you say that we should open things up you are now suddenly killing millions. I'm sorry but I don't buy it. Let the vulnerable stay home and let the people who can work remotely work remotely. Keep doing social distancing and other measures again the spread of the virus but don't shut everything down. Sure if we did nothing then it would spread like wildfire but if you keep measures like wearing face masks and social distancing and self quarantining of you are sick you can stop the spread without shutting everything down. Those numbers that say the death toll would be in the millions in the US are based off of incomplete statistics and also based on the assumption that nothing is done and people don't take precautions like social distancing and the like. 

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