280mm Rad in a 240mm space?

[Zack_Friedman]

I'm really in love with NZXT's new Kraken Z63 AIO. The LCD screen is much nicer looking than Asus's Ryuo 240 AIO. The issue I have is that the case I'm planning to upgrade to only supports a 240mm radiator, and the Kraken Z63 is 280. Is there any way to adapt the bracket to be able to hold the 280mm rad assuming that it will physically fit inside the case? The case I plan to use is the the Roswill Prism S-White which allows the AIO to be mounted on the case wall instead of the front panel so it looks like it will physically accommodate the 280mm rad assuming there is some way to get it in there. I suppose I could also spend a little more money on the Kraken Z73 at 360mm and mount it on the bottom but I've never heard of a bottom mounted radiator before - don't seem like the best option airflow wise. 

Thanks in advance.
)

[Bombastinator]

To do so it would make the thing much wider assuming it was possible at all.  Some cases aren’t made for 140mm fans and using them can be a bad idea.  They have less static pressure.

[For Science!]

3 hours ago, Zack_Friedman said:

 

LOL what is this case, there is literally no opening on the front panel side of it so mounting a fan or AIO would be a seriously pointless exercise.  

[Bombastinator]

19 minutes ago, For Science! said:

LOL what is this case, there is literally no opening on the front panel side of it so mounting a fan or AIO would be a seriously pointless exercise.  

Yeah, the whole give up either the case or the AIO is looking like the only viable solution.

[-rascal-]

22 minutes ago, For Science! said:

LOL what is this case, there is literally no opening on the front panel side of it so mounting a fan or AIO would be a seriously pointless exercise.  

Oh shit you are right!

There is basically ZERO airflow for the front intake fans...

Tech Gezus (Gamers Nexus) would rip this thing 3 new ---

 

@Zack_Friedman DO NOT GET THIS CASE.

This is a REALLY poorly designed case...

This could be worse than the HZXT H500 / H510....

[For Science!]

3 minutes ago, -rascal- said:

 

How stupid can the company be to even say that fans/radiators can be mounted against a solid wall. This time its not even a figurative solid wall with tiny slits for airflow, this is a literal wall....

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, For Science! said:

How stupid can the company be to even say that fans/radiators can be mounted against a solid wall. This time its not even a figurative solid wall with tiny slits for airflow, this is a literal wall....

Unless it isn’t.  I’d have to see a pic, and the one available in the thread doesn’t prove it one way or the other.  For purposes of this exact question though it’s irrelevant.  Assuming for the moment that there are 2 120 mm holes in the front of the case, and some sort of adaptor could be created (3dprinting?) to allow the space to turn into 2 140mm holes, such an adaptor wouldn’t fit because even if there was enough width, which has not been shown) there would still be a huge depth problem.  The rad and it’s fans will be effectively doubled at least in depth by any adaptor.  This is even assuming 140mm fans have the static pressure to pull air in through whatever is restricting the front and causing the requirement for 1 fans in the first place.

[For Science!]

7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 

The case supports 140 mm fans in that position (leaving aside the fact it is ultra stupid). No adapter necessary since you can just mount the radiator via the fans. The only real consideration is that some 280 mm AIOs are wider than 140mm and signifcantly taller than 280 mm. The height is find since there is able space either side of the 140 mm fans, and Z63 happens to be only 143 mm wide, so shouldn't have any issues.

 

Sometimes the screw holes don't match up exactly, but you can see that the holes are sleds and so the fan can be moved quite easily.

 

But of course, there is no point since it is a wall. It is very clear from the photo the OP supplied already. If you need even more help, here you go, look at that nice solid panel the fans rest against

[Bombastinator]

You’re talking about putting them on the bottom.  You were talking about putting them on the front.  There is only one pic supplied originally which was a side view.  This pic does say that there is in fact no front air at all.  It wasn’t the one supplied.  My statement was that even if they did exist (which according to your pic they don’t) it still wouldn’t work.  That there may be more than one reason is again irrelevant.

[For Science!]

Just now, Bombastinator said:

You’re talking about putting them on the bottom.  You were talking about putting them on the front.  There is only one pic supplied originally which was a side view.  This pic does say that there is in fact no front air at all.  It wasn’t the one supplied.  My statement was that even if they did exist (which according to your pic they don’t) it still wouldn’t work.  That there may be more than one reason is again irrelevant.

I think you're just a bit confused as usual, I wasn't talking about putting them on the bottom, neither was the OP. 

Quote

The case I plan to use is the the Roswill Prism S-White which allows the AIO to be mounted on the case wall 

 

OP if actually talking about mounting it to "case wall" which is either the literal wall that is the front (but not, since he then says not the "front panel" although, you never mount anything onto the front panel), or alternatively the HDD/SDD mounting area, which is equally a "wall" albeit with one slit that will no air through it anyway.

 

PS, even on the side view, you can still see that the front is blocked. You can even see the holes of the HDD cable management area reflecting on it.

 

[Bombastinator]

53 minutes ago, For Science! said:

I think you're just a bit confused as usual, I wasn't talking about putting them on the bottom, neither was the OP. 

 

OP if actually talking about mounting it to "case wall" which is either the literal wall that is the front (but not, since he then says not the "front panel" although, you never mount anything onto the front panel), or alternatively the HDD/SDD mounting area, which is equally a "wall" albeit with one slit that will no air through it anyway.

 

PS, even on the side view, you can still see that the front is blocked. You can even see the holes of the HDD cable management area reflecting on it.

 

“As usual”. Cute.  Right up there with “nicknames”.  Allows you to insinuate all sorts of personal stuff  without any basis at all and distract from reality.   
Actually you apparently were if that pic has anything to do with what you were claiming as you said it did.   So pick one.  Were you talking about front air, which everyone was talking about in the first place, or talking about the bottom fans which you did in your second post and then denied doing?

This whole thing is kind of weird since first you referenced a pic that didn’t show what you said it did, (the original OP pic) though didn’t not show it either, provided a different pic which showed a blank area and bottom fans, talked about the bottom fans, and then Claimed you didn’t.   It’s a pretty pointless thing to attack me about since the whole point is there apparently according to your pic any front fan spaces at all no matter what size though the OP had a pic that marked them if not showed them.  We both agree it can’t be done.  My claim was that if there were front fan holes (which there apparently aren’t though the OP claims there were) adapting them to 140mm still wouldn’t work.  You then claimed that there were 140mm fans- on the bottom, and claimed other things.  
 

it’s like your interest is not in the OP at all, but in attempting to attack me by denying your own statements.

 

  I dont care.  

 

This is about the OP’s problem with a case not about your problem with me, which seems kind of excessive if you’re willing to go to the lengths you seem to be willing to go to.  Why is that btw?

[For Science!]

I will address all points as much as I can. Hopefully @Zack_Friedman is satisfied and @Bombastinator can see that a good answer to a post can often go outside the scope of the question, and believe it or not, require use of information outside that is given as working material. The good answer (emphasis on good, not correct) to "Between Lysol and Dettol, which detergent should I inject my two year-old for protection?" is not "They're just as good as each other"; I hope I don't need to explain why.

 

Coming back on track. @Zack_Friedman clearly states in the opening lines that a case upgrade is in the planning. Emphasis on planning, the purchase may not have happened yet, and therefore suggestions for alternatives or suggesting to reconsider are valid, and helpful, if the case choice is not deemed to be ideal.

20 hours ago, Zack_Friedman said:

The issue I have is that the case I'm planning to upgrade to only supports a 240mm radiator

 

There are four radiator mounting positions in this case, labelled 1-4 in the picture above. Of which only two (#1 and #2) are 240 mm radiator mount points that the OP is concerned about.

 

You can immediately see in the picture that there is an issue, on the frontal wall of the chassis, there is a solid wall which displays clear reflections of the cable management holes, immediately rendering mount position #2 completely unusable. Although if it were to be meshed, since it actually has mounts for 140 mm fans, a 280 mm AIO could be mounted here without modification. This requires no explanation, If @Bombastinator can't see it, I would recommend getting your eyes checked.

15 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 I’d have to see a pic, and the one available in the thread doesn’t prove it one way or the other. 

 

This is of course utterly stupid of the manufacture where they even showing this mounting position in use in their own marketing material.

 

20 hours ago, Zack_Friedman said:

allows the AIO to be mounted on the case wall instead of the front panel so it looks like it will physically accommodate the 280mm rad assuming there is some way to get it in there

For future reference, @Zack_Friedman "Front panel" refers to the literal front panel of a chassis, in this case, the white "fractal design meshify-like, but not mesh" panel. Almost nothing is ever mounted to the front panel as it is often detachable. 

 

The other mounting point, mount point #1, is more complicated as on first glance, it looks like another solid wall with only four mounting screws. However it is more complicated than that since actually there is a removable shield revealing more standard 120 mm spaced screw rails.

This mount can be used for 280 mm as well if you compromise on the use of the GPU sag device and the total GPU length. There are many commercially available step down adapters for 120 to 140 mm fan adapters such as the NA-SFMA1 from Noctua or more generic adapters such as the Bitspower. Of course using such adapter may mean that you have to skip some screws such the 140 mm spacing will require the 120 mm fans to be further apart from each other. 

Bitspower

Noctua

 

20 hours ago, Zack_Friedman said:

 I suppose I could also spend a little more money on the Kraken Z73 at 360mm and mount it on the bottom but I've never heard of a bottom mounted radiator before - don't seem like the best option airflow wise. 

Finally, mounting a radiator in the bottom of the chassis is not a problem intrinsically. Exhausting the hot air directly from the bottom of the chassis or warming up the chassis internals slightly and then exhausting it out the side and back are fine either way.

 

The bigger problem here is that in AIOs, there is no intelligent way for the accumulate in a convenient place, air will migrate up to the highest point of the loop and stay there. In this layout, air will accumulate in the pump/cpu block over time and be the cause of a lot of unnecessary noise, and risk of potential failure since the pump will be operating drier than intended.

 

See the video below which are instructions for moving the air out of a pump by moving the radiator above it, it is easy to imagine that if the radiator is below the pump and kept there, air will migrate into the pump easily.

 

[Bombastinator]

Wow.  You do like to insult people don’t you.  3 more pics with blow ups and additional markings on them all required to show that I “need to get my eyes checked“.  Down from the accusation that I inject poison into children, so I guess there’s that.  I see you went through the trouble to find a pre made adaptor of the sort I described.  Are they still purchaceable?  I still don’t think it is likely to fit.  Both width wise as you stated in your original post before you revealed such things as removable panels and were busy calling everyone and everything names, and length wise if anything besides a shorty card is used.  There is also the issue that 140mm fans have less static pressure than 120mm fans the case was designed to use.  There have been several cases in the past that were designed for 120mm fans and worked well, but additional mounting holes for 140mm fans were added and the result was a poorly performing case rather than a good performing one.  The case has side edge air for the front of any which would require the additional static pressure of 120mm fans to work.  (Jury is still out on that one because the pic used has issues with contrast) The issue with bottom mounting an AIO is that is the space used by the gpu and a radiator placed there would either blow hot air from the cpu into the gpu or use hot air from the gpu to cool the cpu.  Fans aren’t a bad idea there but putting a radiator there might not work well.  Fluid dynamics is confusing though. It could possibly wind up working better than anything else.  Fluid dynamics is weird that way. 

[For Science!]

 

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 Down from the accusation that I inject poison into children, so I guess there’s that.

-facepalm- that was an analogy to show that when the question is misplaced, you may have to answer a question that wasn't asked in the first place...

 

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

3 more pics with blow ups and additional markings on them all required to show that I “need to get my eyes checked“.

 

Given that you had so much trouble seeing it in the original pictures, I thought I'd give you a helping hand. If you still genuinely cannot see it, my genuine suggestion is to get your eyes checked as there may be something wrong. Sincerely.

 

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 Are they still purchaceable? 

Yes, at least in Europe. and various versions from various companies seem to be in ample supply on Amazon.com and Ebay so I assume for US too.

 

8 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 and length wise if anything besides a shorty card is used. 

Well given at stock, the case can fit a 440 mm GPU (probably without using any AIO), mounting a 240mm AIO appears to accommodate a 30 cm GPU (Asus Strix) with room to spare. Reference GPUs are typically 26.7 cm so are even less of a concern. Going for a 240 mm radiator to a 280 mm radiator only bites in approx 1 cm in the direction of the GPU since you only need to add 10 mm on each side of a 120 fan to get to a 140 mm fan.  So in fact I would argue it is the opposite and unless you are running an extortionately long card such as the MSI Trio 2080 Ti (32.7 cm) then you will be fine (and the MSI Trio would probably have even struggled to fit with a 240 mm AIO, let alone 280mm).

 

17 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 The issue with bottom mounting an AIO is that is the space used by the gpu and a radiator placed there would either blow hot air from the cpu into the gpu or use hot air from the gpu to cool the cpu.  Fans aren’t a bad idea there but putting a radiator there might not work well.  Fluid dynamics is confusing though. It could possibly wind up working better than anything else.  Fluid dynamics is weird that way. 

This is a "non-issue" since it is an issue under any configuration. I am a strong advocate of using radiators exclusively as an exhaust since I find they heat the internals of the chassis too much (especially for a high quality radiator that is dissipating heat efficiently).

 

Since open shroud GPUs move the air from their bottom and out laterally, the air is more likely to affect a side mounted radiator in exhaust since it is more in plane in the Z-axis. A bottom mounted radiator on exhaust is less likely to see that air since it and the GPU fans would be contributing to a heavy local negative pressure area.

 

If used as a bottom intake radiator, yes, it would affect the GPU temperatures, and so I do not recommend this. Same applies for side intake radiator, it heats up the internal air just the same, albeit not pushing it directly onto the GPU.

 

Side exhaust has to feed off the hot GPU air coming right at it, and so bottom exhaust is technically "best" as it can pull air outside from the PCIe slot covers which are fed by the negative pressure. But for the reasons of the pump I mentioned above, this is not ideal for an AIO.

 

 

 

 

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, For Science! said:

 

-facepalm- that was an analogy to show that when the question is misplaced, you may have to answer a question that wasn't asked in the first place...

 

 

Given that you had so much trouble seeing it in the original pictures, I thought I'd give you a helping hand. If you still genuinely cannot see it, my genuine suggestion is to get your eyes checked as there may be something wrong. Sincerely.

 

Yes, at least in Europe. and various versions from various companies seem to be in ample supply on Amazon.com and Ebay so I assume for US too.

 

Well given at stock, the case can fit a 440 mm GPU (probably without using any AIO), mounting a 240mm AIO appears to accommodate a 30 cm GPU (Asus Strix) with room to spare. Reference GPUs are typically 26.7 cm so are even less of a concern. Going for a 240 mm radiator to a 280 mm radiator only bites in approx 1 cm in the direction of the GPU since you only need to add 10 mm on each side of a 120 fan to get to a 140 mm fan.  So in fact I would argue it is the opposite and unless you are running an extortionately long card such as the MSI Trio 2080 Ti (32.7 cm) then you will be fine (and the MSI Trio would probably have even struggled to fit with a 240 mm AIO, let alone 280mm).

 

This is a "non-issue" since it is an issue under any configuration. I am a strong advocate of using radiators exclusively as an exhaust since I find they heat the internals of the chassis too much (especially for a high quality radiator that is dissipating heat efficiently).

 

Since open shroud GPUs move the air from their bottom and out laterally, the air is more likely to affect a side mounted radiator in exhaust since it is more in plane in the Z-axis. A bottom mounted radiator on exhaust is less likely to see that air since it and the GPU fans would be contributing to a heavy local negative pressure area.

 

If used as a bottom intake radiator, yes, it would affect the GPU temperatures, and so I do not recommend this. Same applies for side intake radiator, it heats up the internal air just the same, albeit not pushing it directly onto the GPU.

 

Side exhaust has to feed off the hot GPU air coming right at it, and so bottom exhaust is technically "best" as it can pull air outside from the PCIe slot covers which are fed by the negative pressure. But for the reasons of the pump I mentioned above, this is not ideal for an AIO.

 

 

 

 

My problems seem to originate in taking your reporting at face value.  You claimed that spaces that turned out to be openable because of removable plates were solid. I believed you.  My mistake. 
 

there was one “ninja” issue in that I mistakenly omitted repetition of the problems inherent in converting 120mm cases to 140mm in the first place which I added between your posting of the replay and me reading it.  It may change part of that. Still seeing the same problem though.  We both seem to more or less agree on the issue but your prime motivator here does not seem to be solving the issue but attacking me personally.  Why is that?

[For Science!]

21 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

-

Sorry to fuel your persecution complex, it really isn't anything personal, you just fit a certain criteria in my mental list. Anyway, you can't like everybody and everybody cannot like you, so let's leave this for now, until another thread where we can fight it out again if necessary.

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Sorry to fuel your persecution complex, it really isn't anything personal, you just fit a certain criteria in my mental list. Anyway, you can't like everybody and everybody cannot like you, so let's leave this for now, until another thread where we can fight it out again if necessary.

More accusations.  Now I’m also crazy apparently according to you.  “You just fit a certain criteria on my mental list” is specifically personal.  And extremely vague.  The purpose of the forum is to help people with computer problems.  I am not interested in “fighting” I’m interested in doing that.  I don’t know if the whole hidden panel thing was performed as a troll or a later discovery by you.  It doesn’t matter I suppose.  The eventual revelation that they existed was the important bit for purposes of building the computer. 

[For Science!]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 

-facepalm- mental list, a mental list. A LIST IN MY HEAD.

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, For Science! said:

-facepalm- mental list, a mental list. A LIST IN MY HEAD.

Yes.  That was made clear.  You effectively stated you had reasons which you formulate as a mental “list” having to do with me, but were not interested in saying what they were.  A non answer.   In any case it doesn’t matter.