Dear LTT, please stop hating Apple

[RejZoR]

@Lord Vile

People can't seem to get out of the big numbers that we see with Androids. You have Android with 4500mAh battery and it'll make it through the day. And then you have iPhone with something like 3200mAh and it'll make it the same through the day. It's like the age old "but muh games on consoles run like X and hardware is of Y specs". It's the same level of nonsensical comparison. Just like consoles where hardware and software are tightly integrated and games are specifically designed to run superbly on that hardware, it's the same with iPhone. Hardware and software is specifically designed for those ~5 generations they currently support and they get superb results from that. Where Android is made to run on 50.000 variants of phones and then each vendor uses their own drivers and software, of course things can't operate the same. Just the same as Windows gaming can't be compared to console gaming. Windows needs to run on millions of different hardware configurations with billions of driver and other software configurations and games need to account for all that. There is no logical way they can run as fast as on consoles. Which is why I always find discussions of console hardware almost hilarious coz nothing from HW specs can tell you how a specially tailored game for that hardware will even run. People just make assumptions on what they know from PC and those assumptions are based on flawed input data. 56 core GPU on PC and in console are two totally different things.

[Lord Vile]

@RejZoR

 

Just think it’s a lack of knowledge and a “I hate Apple” attitude. Funnily enough it’s about 2/3 the size of a iPhone 11 screen with 2/3 the battery. But idk I’d like the reviews of Apple stuff to be written by someone who uses a MacBook vs someone who admits they know very little about MacOS. And I don’t get the position they have on the iPad Pro. When it debuted they complained about the file management, limited OS and no mouse support. Now it has better file management it’s own OS and real

mouse support they complain it had all of that 

[GDRRiley]

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

@RejZoR

 

Just think it’s a lack of knowledge and a “I hate Apple” attitude. Funnily enough it’s about 2/3 the size of a iPhone 11 screen with 2/3 the battery. But idk I’d like the reviews of Apple stuff to be written by someone who uses a MacBook vs someone who admits they know very little about MacOS. And I don’t get the position they have on the iPad Pro. When it debuted they complained about the file management, limited OS and no mouse support. Now it has better file management it’s own OS and real

mouse support they complain it had all of that 

it isn't a lack of knowledge. its about power draw and the a13 is a power hungry chip. if you want that go watch someone elses vidoes on Macs LTT has always been Macs from a PC guys perspective. Just cus it has them doesn't mean it is good. All are better but non of it is good enough to replace a proper laptop.

 

56 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

They seem to bash Apple products over a lack of understanding. For example the dual core MacBook Air saying you can’t multitask on a dual core. You can. Even in windows 10 it’s doable. In MacOS as long as you’re not rendering video or something similar a dual core with 8GB of RAM is more than enough. Secondly the iPhone SEs battery being 1800mah. It’s the same chassis as the 8. The 8 has a 1800mah battery, the 8 lasts all day, the 8 has a less efficient SoC. why would a 1800mah battery be an issue?

No it is from a high expectation given the price. My gf has edited 1080p off a DLSR on a 2015 macbook pro with a dual core, they can do it but good luck doing something else. 

apple could have stuck in a 2200mah there is the space. the a13 can be more power hungery than the old a11 at high usages. It maybe enough for launch but in 2 years you'll be closer to 1600mah. its about building in battery life degradation. a pixel 3a a very close phone in size has a 3000mah

[The Flying Sloth]

Okay, so let me put a different perspective on this,
I'm a music producer, it's what I do and honestly Apple drivers (conglomerate audio devices) are far beyond what windows is even close to achieving, it's really pathetic. But I will continue to use a Windows PC, why? because I'm a tinkerer, I like customisation and upgradability. I have absolutely 0 desire to purchase an overpriced computer that I cannot replace parts in myself and doesn't have support for whatever dodgey little .exe file (or registry edit) I need to make a small change to get my workload smoother. Sure, for some the Apple ecosystem is nice to have but honestly, I value choice in hardware far more than I value a blue text bubble.

I'll put it into an analogy to explain, imagine you want to buy a new car, the car is really sick but to drive the car you really have to be wearing clothes from the same brand otherwise the aircon doesn't work. The clothes cost double what normal clothed so and to button them up all the way you have to be wearing shoes from the same brand BUT I just wanna wear jeans and a printed T shirt. It forces you to buy more Apple s**t to get the most out of the apple s**t you already own. It's a brilliant marketing strategy and it makes things very easy to use but it also stops you from using 3rd party phone apps and makes you pay obscene amounts of money for extremely low-spec computers.

In my eyes LTT is about an enthusiasts viewpoint and enthusiasts tend to care about pesky things like pice/performance, customisation and upgrades (and warranties) that Apple frankly sucks at. 
Take that with as many grains of salt as you see fit

Sloth

[Lord Vile]

9 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

it isn't a lack of knowledge. its about power draw and the a13 is a power hungry chip. if you want that go watch someone elses vidoes on Macs LTT has always been Macs from a PC guys perspective. Just cus it has them doesn't mean it is good. All are better but non of it is good enough to replace a proper laptop.

 

No it is from a high expectation given the price. My gf has edited 1080p off a DLSR on a 2015 macbook pro with a dual core, they can do it but good luck doing something else. 

apple could have stuck in a 2200mah there is the space. the a13 can be more power hungery than the old a11 at high usages. It maybe enough for launch but in 2 years you'll be closer to 1600mah. its about building in battery life degradation. a pixel 3a a very close phone in size has a 3000mah

The A13 is more power efficient than the 11 in the iPhone 8 which lasts all day. I know it doesn’t make it good and I wouldn’t replace my MacBook with one but you can’t ask for proper mouse support and then moan that they did it. 
 

In 2 years the 3a won’t be supported so at least the iPhone will be  Camera in the SE is also amazing for the money, same as the main from the over $1000 11 Pro Max (and 11) which is arguably the best camera on the market between that and the Pixel 4. So to get that on a $400 phone is insane. 

[The Flying Sloth]

4 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

which is arguably the best camera on the market between that and the Pixel 4

DXOMARK disagrees quite strongly with you,
Benchmarks aside, phone cameras are phone cameras, none are perfect or anything close to a true DSLR (or whatever the correct term is, I know nothing about cameras) and it's up to the user to decide what they like the look of best.... like they did in the 2019 MKBHD blind camera test that the Iphone handily lost in the first round....

Anyway, point being Apple bad literally anything else good, K?

Sloth

[Curious Pineapple]

The only fully functional Apple product I have is a damn G3 iMac, everything else has shit the bed with common known faults. iPod mini died of a common logic board failure, iPhone 3G battery won't take a charge in the phone if it's left to drop to near zero (may not be common but it just power cycles). 2007 iMac with the column driver fault, then the PSU blew whilst trying to write a disc image to a USB drive. 1st gen iPod video, audio IC failure, this one had already been back to Apple for repair and what did I find inside, pieces of rubber wedging the offending IC down. Got a G5 PowerMac with a self-desoldering memory management controller, the fix for that is a piece of rubber jammed in the case too.

 

For comparison I have a pair of Pentium 3 Dell laptops and a pair of Toshiba P3's that are ex-DJ machines and they work perfectly. In fact I only have 2 dead machines made by crappy non-Apple substandard manufacturers. One is a Dell something or other with a dead PSU and the other is a Dell Precicion T5500 with severe water damage.

 

From my experience the only Apple product I can recommend is the G3 iMac as it is the only one that has given me no trouble at all. Everything else has been problematic, even a Mac Mini that I repaired needed a dremel to take a new HDD as Apple designed the frame to only take the 7mm drives. No reason for it at all apart from bumping up the price by forcing the use of single platter drives. Nothing at all to do with space requirements, the moulding was designed specifically to only take the thinner drive whilst the case could easily accommodate a 10mm or possibly a pair of 7mm thick drives.

 

Apple deserve all the bad reviews and criticism they get, just like any company that sells premium priced products and under-delivers. I'm looking at you BMW.

[Lord Vile]

15 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

DXOMARK disagrees quite strongly with you,
Benchmarks aside, phone cameras are phone cameras, none are perfect or anything close to a true DSLR (or whatever the correct term is, I know nothing about cameras) and it's up to the user to decide what they like the look of best.... like they did in the 2019 MKBHD blind camera test that the Iphone handily lost in the first round....

Anyway, point being Apple bad literally anything else good, K?

Sloth

DXOMARK is useless. They work in unrealistic terms and whereas the iPhone might not beat other cameras in photos when used in a studio with controlled lighting etc it never derps in real world usage. If you get 10 phones are take photos around a city throughout the day the iPhone will never be lower than 3rd. Plus there isn’t a better video camera out there. You can tune android cameras more and make them look better with 3rd party software that isn’t available on iOS but at that point you might as well just buy a camera. 
 

Personally if I’m on holiday or want to take a lot of photos I take a small digital camera because they’re better than phones and have real zoom.

[RejZoR]

54 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

it isn't a lack of knowledge. its about power draw and the a13 is a power hungry chip. if you want that go watch someone elses vidoes on Macs LTT has always been Macs from a PC guys perspective. Just cus it has them doesn't mean it is good. All are better but non of it is good enough to replace a proper laptop.

 

No it is from a high expectation given the price. My gf has edited 1080p off a DLSR on a 2015 macbook pro with a dual core, they can do it but good luck doing something else. 

apple could have stuck in a 2200mah there is the space. the a13 can be more power hungery than the old a11 at high usages. It maybe enough for launch but in 2 years you'll be closer to 1600mah. its about building in battery life degradation. a pixel 3a a very close phone in size has a 3000mah

A13 a power hungry chip. Then what does that make Snapdragon 865+ ? A coal furnace? A13 really isn't power hungry. It's very powerful and all iPhones have dramatically smaller batteries. If your logic actually applied, then all iPhones wouldn't survive even half a day. So, yeah, your claim that A13 is somehow extraordinarily power hungry is just absurd.

[The Flying Sloth]

51 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Personally if I’m on holiday or want to take a lot of photos I take a small digital camera because they’re better than phones and have real zoom.

Real zoom eh? you mean like the optical zoom available on androi...........
Anyway, you dodged one of my points (Iphone out in first round of blind test) and agreed with my other point, phone cameras are not a replacement for a proper camera. If even you admit that it's not a replacement why use it as the crux of your argument for the value proposition of the SE? iPhones are cool, sure but as with everything else apple does the value proposition just isn't there for an enthusiast who does anything beyond imessage and animoji.

Sloth

[AlwaysFSX]

11 hours ago, mr moose said:

Saudi Aramco, MS and Amazon are worth more.   As of today's market cap values.

11 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

Market cap and market value aren't the same thing. Regardless, that really has little to nothing to do with the point I was making.

I believe Standard Oil was still worth more.

[Fetzie]

13 hours ago, XR6 said:

They're Mac Pro only. But I wouldn't be surprised if they released a "Pro" version of the wheels at double the price.

The Pro wheels will have brakes on them, so your newly-mobile 10,000 dollar pride-and-joy doesn't one day decide that it wants to go walkies down the stairs.

[Inversion]

I'm not an Apple fan. I'm not going to beat around the bush on that one. And I'm not a fan not because I "hate" Apple. I don't really hate them, I will give them credit where credit is due, but I'm also not blind to their shortcomings. 

 

A lot of what I would say are Apple's shortcomings arise because they do not live in an isolated system. I have owned some Apple devices over the years (admittedly both different iterations of the iPod) and I had them because compared to everything else that was trying to do the same thing, nothing else compared. In fact when I had an iPod touch, nothing else really existed that was like it.

 

When the iPhone first came out it was revolutionary. I will not deny that. But the likes of Samsung now not only compete but in a lot of ways exceed the capabilities of the iPhone. For a lot of people, Android devices offer things Apple can't with their iPhones. Apple has made decisions with the iPhone that I find to be absolutely laughable. The continued use of the gigantic notch I personally find ugly. If I have to have a cut out of my screen for a selfie camera I would rather have something a little less intrusive like a holepunch or tear drop notch. Personally I'm gonna hold onto my Samsung Galaxy S8 as long as I can in hopes of getting a phone with no notch or hole punch. Taking out the headphone jack was STUPID and I hate that everyone followed them with that. Lacking expandable storage is also dumb and they should be using USB Type-C by now like they do on ALL THEIR OTHER DEVICES!!!!

 

Your point about the iPad being the best tablet. I would probably agree with you. But the product does not exist independent of its pricing. For £1000, you could have an iPad Pro as a computer replacement, or a Surface Pro which is a fully fledged computer. I also maintain that the base model iPad is also a really good tablet, but at £350 for the iPad, plus £90 for the Apple Pencil (total £440), for what is a secondary device (or to be honest tertiary device for me after my desktop and laptop), it's really pricey. I would argue that the difference in the experience I would get with an iPad is not £200 better that the experience I get with my £200 Huawei tablet and £40 Huawei M-Pen. I'm not trying to say that my Huawei is perfect, it's far from it, but it's not awful, and for a similar experience for about half the price I would rather have the extra money.

 

I see the same problem with the MacBooks. They're expensive, and their build quality is great, but for so many people, MacOS isn't something they can use because it means giving up Windows specific features. And at that point, the cost puts them out of the running because although the machines are great, the software turns people away. You may love MacOS, but I use some programs regularly that I need a windows PC for because they just don't run on MacOS. You might think I am just using MacOS as another way to hate on Apple, but I have long maintained it (and the pricing tbh) are what stop me having a Macbook. Personally I really like the look of the new MacBook Air, and if it was £200 cheaper and ran Windows I would probably have that over the HP laptop I carry around but it comes with the Apple tax, and MacOS.

 

Maybe one day I'll be tempted to Apple. But right now, Windows and Android have served me well for the last 16 years (I got a windows 98 PC hand me down when I was 4) and I don't see that changing soon.

[Lord Vile]

1 hour ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Real zoom eh? you mean like the optical zoom available on androi...........
Anyway, you dodged one of my points (Iphone out in first round of blind test) and agreed with my other point, phone cameras are not a replacement for a proper camera. If even you admit that it's not a replacement why use it as the crux of your argument for the value proposition of the SE? iPhones are cool, sure but as with everything else apple does the value proposition just isn't there for an enthusiast who does anything beyond imessage and animoji.

Sloth

Most phones have “optical zoom” the iPhone has 2x the S20 has 3x and the ultra has 5x. Not the 20x of a real cameras. 
 

Haven’t watched it, don’t like the guy and dunno how reliable he is. 
 

Why are you ignoring video and SoC performance then for “enthusiasts”? The A series demolishes the snapdragon chops to the point where the A11 from 2.5 years ago is trading blows with the 865 and the iPhone wipes the floor with anything for video. 

[PineyCreek]

I think Apple's great at certain things...they have great performance in the creative workspace and some Mac-only applications.  If my main profession was music creation or certain types of editing, I might get one (though I would pray my work would get one and pay for the warranty, because I think they're stupid overpriced for what you get and the company involved).  If you like them, great.

 

Just don't ask others to.  Harping on about the same thing is annoying, I agree, but sometimes you have to nag in the hopes that the situation will change.  Or you need a revolution...one or the other.

 

You're always going to have a debate between high pricing for the specs and anti-consumer behavior in terms of parts availability and repair policy along with taking forever to admit when certain designs have faults.  This can hold true for any company.  Apple's just particularly high-profile when it comes to these factors.

 

Ubuntu Studio's pretty neat by the way if we're talking creativity...and that's free...and you can run it portable...or in a VM...

 

DISCLAIMER: I think most OEMs are crap with being customer-repair friendly.  I think Apple has a particular level of viciousness in that regard however.

[The Flying Sloth]

2 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Haven’t watched it, don’t like the guy and dunno how reliable he is. 

He posted the photos online for the general public to vote on..... He's also an admitted Apple fanboy so you should like him, he's one of you......
 

[Lord Vile]

2 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

He posted the photos online for the general public to vote on..... He's also an admitted Apple fanboy so you should like him, he's one of you......
 

Not cared. Don’t know anything about it so don’t trust it.

[The Flying Sloth]

11 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Not cared. Don’t know anything about it so don’t trust it.

Let me get this straight
Fanboy - "Apple has arguably the best camera of any smartphone"
Me - "DXOMARK benchmarks disagree"
Fanboy - "Benchmarks silly"
Me - "Okay, MKBHD (11 mil subs) on youtube ran a blind test where it lost in the first round"
Fanboy - "MKBHD silly"
Me - "But it was a public poll, nobody knew what phones they were voting for and the Iphone lost straight away"
Fanboy - "Rigged, testing is silly"

What an intelligent argument you've come up with there that cannot be refuted in any way shape or form.......

[Lord Vile]

1 minute ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Let me get this straight
Fanboy - "Apple has arguably the best camera of any smartphone"
Me - "DXOMARK benchmarks disagree"
Fanboy - "Benchmarks silly"
Me - "Okay, MKBHD (11 mil subs) on youtube ran a blind test where it lost in the first round"
Fanboy - "MKBHD silly"
Me - "But it was a public poll, nobody knew what phones they were voting for and the Iphone lost straight away"
Fanboy - "Rigged, testing is silly"

What an intelligent argument you've come up with there that cannot be refuted in any way shape or form.......

Because subs = right...

 

Depends how the photos were taken, when and where they were taken etc plus iPhones generally don’t take the best photo vs every other phone they’re just always in the top 3. It’s about being consistent which I have already stated. So a public poll that counts what looks the best every time is a flawed methodology which is more of a reason not to trust that retard who tried to take a protective layer off the fold despite paperwork explicitly telling you not to. You’re trying to engineer an argument that doesn’t exist. 

[The Flying Sloth]

2 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

 iPhones generally don’t take the best photo vs every other phone they’re just always in the top 3.

Except that the iPhone came last..... In a blind poll where nobody could possible have known that it was the iPhone.....

Dear god, do you not hear yourself?

[Curious Pineapple]

5 minutes ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Except that the iPhone came last..... In a blind poll where nobody could possible have known that it was the iPhone.....

Dear god, do you not hear yourself?

Your argument is invalid, tthe photons were hitting the sensor wrong. Nothing more, it's just defective photons.

[The Flying Sloth]

Just now, Curious Pineapple said:

Your argument is invalid, tthe photons were hitting the sensor wrong. Nothing more, it's just defective photons.

My bad man, don't know how I missed that one.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

5 hours ago, Kilrah said:

No, I'd rather they didn't introduce new premium, top dollar products with known flaws.

Razer laptops are very unreliable, as LTT showed. do you hear daily complaining about them on LTT? no. do you hear forum members complaining about it? no. 

[Kilrah]

16 minutes ago, Twilight said:

Razer laptops are very unreliable, as LTT showed. do you hear daily complaining about them on LTT?

They do when they compare things that include a razer laptop. It just happens that Apple stuff is a common candidate for comparison, so they're mentioned more frequently...

 

17 minutes ago, Twilight said:

do you hear forum members complaining about it?

How many Razer laptop users on the forum vs Apple laptop users? Likely much fewer.

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

31 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

It just happens that Apple stuff is a common candidate for comparison, so they're mentioned more frequently...

why

 

31 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

How many Razer laptop users on the forum vs Apple laptop users? Likely much fewer.

that's not relevant. razer and apple are both companies that fuck up, but why is it always apple that's put in the spotlight.