Slow speeds from netgear router. (The saga continues)

[6KingSlayer9]

Ok so I have FIOS 500/500 plan. The modem is installed in my garage. From there the main internet line is in my office connected to my netgear x6s router.

Key: 500mbps = 59.6 MB/second download speeds

When I download games I get 25-30MB/second, which seemed off. So I unplugged my netgear router and tried the default router they gave me when they installed my service. All of sudden 50-60MB/seconds on BattleNet. Unplugged and replugged both router and did the test 3 times and same result. So went to the store bought and $300 netgear router (returned it today) and same result, slow speeds. So what the heck is going on?

 

Note: please don’t say it’s the game servers. The tests were done literally five minutes apart multiple times. 

[Falcon1986]

44 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

Ok so I have FIOS 500/500 plan. The modem is installed in my garage. From there the main internet line is in my office connected to my netgear x6s router.

Key: 500mbps = 59.6 MB/second download speeds

When I download games I get 25-30MB/second, which seemed off. So I unplugged my netgear router and tried the default router they gave me when they installed my service. All of sudden 50-60MB/seconds on BattleNet. Unplugged and replugged both router and did the test 3 times and same result. So went to the store bought and $300 netgear router (returned it today) and same result, slow speeds. So what the heck is going on?

 

Note: please don’t say it’s the game servers. The tests were done literally five minutes apart multiple times. 

1. Are these speed results obtained from the same speed testing source?
2. Are these speed tests done while directly plugged into the router?
3. Do you have any need for wireless at all?

I sense your frustration, but you have to be open to the diagnostic process here, especially when starting a new thread as a lot of things will be asked of you again.

 

If you're going to choose to follow only the advice that you want and brush aside what you feel is irrelevant, then you're free to do that. But we won't be able to be much help and the cycle will continue. At the end of the day, you'll be stuck with the same problem and become more frustrated than ever.

 

So I encourage you to bear with us and the process. The community here is made up of a variety of skill sets and experience who do their best to give recommendations (when they're available), and will try to work with you and what you have before sending you out to buy expensive gear that you may not actually need.

[BloodKnight7]

Has your X6s been updated to the latest and greatest firmware? I have an X6 myself, also make sure to disable all the extra crap netgear throws in there like parental controls and "security" package, etc... If you have the security features enabled it will diminish your speed as the router has to scan all the packets.

[6KingSlayer9]

9 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

1. Are these speed results obtained from the same speed testing source?
2. Are these speed tests done while directly plugged into the router?
3. Do you have any need for wireless at all?

I sense your frustration, but you have to be open to the diagnostic process here, especially when starting a new thread as a lot of things will be asked of you again.

 

If you're going to choose to follow only the advice that you want and brush aside what you feel is irrelevant, then you're free to do that. But we won't be able to be much help and the cycle will continue. At the end of the day, you'll be stuck with the same problem and become more frustrated than ever.

 

So I encourage you to bear with us and the process. The community here is made up of a variety of skill sets and experience who do their best to give recommendations (when they're available), and will try to work with you and what you have before sending you out to buy expensive gear that you may not actually need.

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes, but turned off when testing. All tests were done through hard wire. 
 

modem - https://ibb.co/cXg4TML

 

Modem - To netgear router - to computer = 25-30MB/second. 
 

Modem - To default router - to computer = 50-60MB/second. 

 

Edit: 

Ok I just had a long convo with my friend about this. This is what he told me. Because I have fiber the modem they installed is future proof, it is docsis 3.1. He said the problem is that most modern router's can't support docsis 3.1 and only support docsis 3.0. So the router frontier gives me is docsis 3.1 compatible and because of that I get the full speed. Does this hold any truth and if so what can I do?

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by 6KingSlayer9
new info

[6KingSlayer9]

4 hours ago, BloodKnight7 said:

Has your X6s been updated to the latest and greatest firmware? I have an X6 myself, also make sure to disable all the extra crap netgear throws in there like parental controls and "security" package, etc... If you have the security features enabled it will diminish your speed as the router has to scan all the packets.

Everything. I have tried everything. From hard reset to turning off every feature that slow it down. I have contacted netgear three times and they have no clue. 

[RAS_3885]

7 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes, but turned off when testing. All tests were done through hard wire. 
 

Modem - To netgear router - to computer = 25-30MB/second. 
 

Modem - To default router - to computer = 50-60MB/second. 

Did you run any speed tests from other sources besides Battle Net using the Netgear router (such as speedtest.net, dslreports, or fast.com)?

[6KingSlayer9]

4 minutes ago, RAS_3885 said:

Did you run any speed tests from other sources besides Battle Net using the Netgear router (such as speedtest.net, dslreports, or fast.com)?

BattleNet, EpicGameLauncher, and uplay. All the same result. The netgear router is half the speed every time. Also yes I did a speedtest everytime but, I’m not concerned with the the Speedtest because it always sits around 500/500. 

[RAS_3885]

35 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

BattleNet, EpicGameLauncher, and uplay. All the same result. The netgear router is half the speed every time. Also yes I did a speedtest everytime but, I’m not concerned with the the Speedtest because it always sits around 500/500. 

Okay, so speedtest showing full network speed means at least it's not a gross hardware fault or something like that with the Netgear router preventing it from supporting your 500/500 connection. Multiple game servers showing same behavior rules out issues with BattleNet (as does the fact that it works fine with the ISP's router).

 

It REALLY sounds like a QoS setting on your router is de-prioritizing game-related traffic. But you said you turned all that off so I'm not sure. Hopefully someone else has additional ideas.

[6KingSlayer9]

28 minutes ago, RAS_3885 said:

Okay, so speedtest showing full network speed means at least it's not a gross hardware fault or something like that with the Netgear router preventing it from supporting your 500/500 connection. Multiple game servers showing same behavior rules out issues with BattleNet (as does the fact that it works fine with the ISP's router).

 

It REALLY sounds like a QoS setting on your router is de-prioritizing game-related traffic. But you said you turned all that off so I'm not sure. Hopefully someone else has additional ideas.

Ok I just had a long convo with my friend about this. This is what he told me. Because I have fiber the modem they installed is future proof, it is docsis 3.1. He said the problem is that most modern router's can't support docsis 3.1 and only support docsis 3.0. So the router frontier gives me is docsis 3.1 compatible and because of that I get the full speed. Does this hold any truth and if so what can I do?

[Falcon1986]

1 hour ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

BattleNet, EpicGameLauncher, and uplay. All the same result. The netgear router is half the speed every time. Also yes I did a speedtest everytime but, I’m not concerned with the the Speedtest because it always sits around 500/500. 

Oh, wait! So your SpeedTest.net results reflect what you're supposed to be getting from your ISP but your game server speed tests are slower?

 

28 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

Ok I just had a long convo with my friend about this. This is what he told me. Because I have fiber the modem they installed is future proof, it is docsis 3.1. He said the problem is that most modern router's can't support docsis 3.1 and only support docsis 3.0. So the router frontier gives me is docsis 3.1 compatible and because of that I get the full speed. Does this hold any truth and if so what can I do?

This technology has to do with the connection between your ISP and modem, not your router. That fiber signal (or any other signal from your ISP for that matter) is then converted to electrical signals that can be carried over ethernet to your own router and vice versa. What I think you and your friend are getting confused about are the terms "modem", "router" and "gateway". Your ISP supplied you with a gateway device that supports DOCSIS 3.1. Gateways are a combination of a modem, router and sometimes a wireless access point in a single device. A simple modem only allows 1 device to connect to your ISP; you have to add a router to be able to share that connection with more than 1 device in your home. So, I don't think this has anything to do with your problem.

[Lurick]

39 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

Ok I just had a long convo with my friend about this. This is what he told me. Because I have fiber the modem they installed is future proof, it is docsis 3.1. He said the problem is that most modern router's can't support docsis 3.1 and only support docsis 3.0. So the router frontier gives me is docsis 3.1 compatible and because of that I get the full speed. Does this hold any truth and if so what can I do?

There are several problems with this that range from semi-basic to complex but I want to address them first just so we're on the same page.

1) FIOS does NOT in any way shape or form use the DOCSIS standard. The internet might come from a coax cable but it's not using DOCSIS to deliver that internet to your gateway. FIOS either uses fiber directly or MoCA, but in no way does it use DOCSIS.

 

2) Your gateway/"modem" is MoCA 2.0 most likely which is capable of roughly 1Gbps in good conditions, depending on line conditions from the cabinet to your home.

 

3) A router and a modem (as separate devices) do not dictate what the other can do, only a combo unit will have a "limit". If you have a DOCIS 3.0 modem (which is for cable internet not FIOS) then your speed is limited by two things. The first of which is the max service your ISP will provide based on that standard and the second is the limitation of the standard itself and in every case I've seen you hit the ISP limit well before you hit the theoretical limit because they don't want to push near the max and have people complain they don't get X speed. If your router can handle gigabit throughput and your modem can only deliver 400Mbps from your ISP, your limiting factor is the modem. DOCSIS 3.1 is generally reserved for anything around or above 500Mbps to deliver more channels to bond to deliver the speed to the end user. HOWEVER, see point #1 as this doesn't really come into play here.

 

4) Depending on the router there can be limits on how much actual LAN -> WAN and WAN -> LAN throughput it can handle since most of this is done, on a lot of consumer routers, in CPU (maybe a low end ASIC, depends) so they might not be able to handle a large number of connections or do a lot of NATing and thus will bottleneck by the CPU the throughput. I, however, don't believe the router you have is hitting this limit and you should easily be getting your advertised speeds.

 

==========================

 

Onto the problem at hand, I've skimmed over the thread and I definitely think it's as pointed out above, either QoS or some rate limiter or CPU issue. Poke around in the Netgear for anything QoS, counter, or anything related to these. There was an issue a buddy at work had where a packet counter was turned on by default and it basically hammered the CPU on the router and cut his throughput in half until it was flipped off. I can't remember what make it was though but it was either Netgear or Asus so I'd check around for that.

[6KingSlayer9]

42 minutes ago, Lurick said:

There are several problems with this that range from semi-basic to complex but I want to address them first just so we're on the same page.

1) FIOS does NOT in any way shape or form use the DOCSIS standard. The internet might come from a coax cable but it's not using DOCSIS to deliver that internet to your gateway. FIOS either uses fiber directly or MoCA, but in no way does it use DOCSIS.

 

2) Your gateway/"modem" is MoCA 2.0 most likely which is capable of roughly 1Gbps in good conditions, depending on line conditions from the cabinet to your home.

 

3) A router and a modem (as separate devices) do not dictate what the other can do, only a combo unit will have a "limit". If you have a DOCIS 3.0 modem (which is for cable internet not FIOS) then your speed is limited by two things. The first of which is the max service your ISP will provide based on that standard and the second is the limitation of the standard itself and in every case I've seen you hit the ISP limit well before you hit the theoretical limit because they don't want to push near the max and have people complain they don't get X speed. If your router can handle gigabit throughput and your modem can only deliver 400Mbps from your ISP, your limiting factor is the modem. DOCSIS 3.1 is generally reserved for anything around or above 500Mbps to deliver more channels to bond to deliver the speed to the end user. HOWEVER, see point #1 as this doesn't really come into play here.

 

4) Depending on the router there can be limits on how much actual LAN -> WAN and WAN -> LAN throughput it can handle since most of this is done, on a lot of consumer routers, in CPU (maybe a low end ASIC, depends) so they might not be able to handle a large number of connections or do a lot of NATing and thus will bottleneck by the CPU the throughput. I, however, don't believe the router you have is hitting this limit and you should easily be getting your advertised speeds.

 

==========================

 

Onto the problem at hand, I've skimmed over the thread and I definitely think it's as pointed out above, either QoS or some rate limiter or CPU issue. Poke around in the Netgear for anything QoS, counter, or anything related to these. There was an issue a buddy at work had where a packet counter was turned on by default and it basically hammered the CPU on the router and cut his throughput in half until it was flipped off. I can't remember what make it was though but it was either Netgear or Asus so I'd check around for that.

Thank you for clearing up DOCSIS question because I was just throwing out something that maybe would help solve the problem. So I double checked all the features that could be slowing down the downloads are turned off. If you want to to try a different settings on/off please let me know and I will give it a shot. Please look at screenshots below:

[6KingSlayer9]

Also this is the wireless result from the netgear router (if that helps): 

[Falcon1986]

8 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

 

 

Try enabling 'Dynamic QOS' and manually define your 500/500 Mbps download/upload speed. Apply and reboot router, then test again.

[6KingSlayer9]

12 minutes ago, Falcon1986 said:

Try enabling 'Dynamic QOS' and manually define your 500/500 Mbps download/upload speed. Apply and reboot router, then test again.

Done that, same result.

 

Edit: tried it again and still the same 

[Falcon1986]

6 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

Done that, same result.

OK, revert the settings.

 

Try deactivating the Netgear Armor if it's turned on.

 

Am wondering if setting up the Netgear router as an access point (which you can also wire in to) will change anything.

 

Seems like you've exhausted as much as you can from this router. Maybe just revert to the ISP's gateway device on which you can get full speed. I wouldn't recommend you get another Netgear device if you're looking for a replacement.

[6KingSlayer9]

12 minutes ago, Falcon1986 said:

OK, revert the settings.

 

Try deactivating the Netgear Armor if it's turned on.

 

Am wondering if setting up the Netgear router as an access point (which you can also wire in to) will change anything.

 

Seems like you've exhausted as much as you can from this router. Maybe just revert to the ISP's gateway device on which you can get full speed. I wouldn't recommend you get another Netgear device if you're looking for a replacement.

BROOOOO there is no fucking way. 

ok this is the chain right now:

modem - Frointer router - netgear router (AP mode) - my computer = 50-60MB/second. 

Seems like I am forced to use the Frointer router.

[Falcon1986]

1 hour ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

BROOOOO there is no fucking way. 

ok this is the chain right now:

modem - Frointer router - netgear router (AP mode) - my computer = 50-60MB/second. 

Seems like I am forced to use the Frointer router.

Just to clarify: setting the Netgear router in AP mode worked?

[6KingSlayer9]

13 minutes ago, Falcon1986 said:

Just to clarify: setting the Netgear router in AP mode worked?

YES

[Falcon1986]

11 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

YES

Lol! Good job! Will this setup work for you in it's current configuration?

 

So what you've essentially done is handed over routing and DHCP to the ISP gateway. The Netgear X6S is just acting as another access point for the gateway. By doing this, you've determined that the X6S as a basic router (no bandwidth optimization, extra security processing, etc.) is causing you to lose speed on your 500Mbps connection.

 

Believe it or not, your thread was the last nail in the coffin for me not to use/recommend Netgear devices as wireless routers anymore. I have two old R7000 routers that I simply use as gigabit switches now and to experiment with 3rd-party firmware. 

[Kilrah]

And not just the X6S, but also whatever 300$ Netgear router he said he bought.

 

Conclusion, netgear routers have terrible routing performance even for high end ones. 

That is actually a common thing that unfortunately nobody actually reviews or makes comparative lists about, but most "gigabit" home routers that usually advertise even faster speeds on wifi actually aren't able to route traffic anywhere that fast. All they quote is the interface speed standard, but nothing about actual performance and how they can make use of those interfaces.

 

[6KingSlayer9]

2 hours ago, Kilrah said:

And not just the X6S, but also whatever 300$ Netgear router he said he bought.

 

Conclusion, netgear routers have terrible routing performance even for high end ones. 

That is actually a common thing that unfortunately nobody actually reviews or makes comparative lists about, but most "gigabit" home routers that usually advertise even faster speeds on wifi actually aren't able to route traffic anywhere that fast. All they quote is the interface speed standard, but nothing about actual performance and how they can make use of those interfaces.

 

The odd part is that after putting it in AP mode I get full performance on wired. My best guess is that frointer forces you to use there router because they charge for it monthly. 

[6KingSlayer9]

5 hours ago, Falcon1986 said:

Lol! Good job! Will this setup work for you in it's current configuration?

 

So what you've essentially done is handed over routing and DHCP to the ISP gateway. The Netgear X6S is just acting as another access point for the gateway. By doing this, you've determined that the X6S as a basic router (no bandwidth optimization, extra security processing, etc.) is causing you to lose speed on your 500Mbps connection.

 

Believe it or not, your thread was the last nail in the coffin for me not to use/recommend Netgear devices as wireless routers anymore. I have two old R7000 routers that I simply use as gigabit switches now and to experiment with 3rd-party firmware. 

Alright this the current set up now: 

 

Modem: 

 

 

Main internet line: 

 

 

 

Frontier router: 

 

 

 

Netgear router used as AP:

 

 

 

Thank you for all your help, I really do appreciate it.  

[Kilrah]

13 minutes ago, 6KingSlayer9 said:

The odd part is that after putting it in AP mode I get full performance on wired. 

No it's totally expected, in AP mode it doesn't have to route anymore, so what's most "difficult" and most likely to cap performance is taken away.

[6KingSlayer9]

Just now, Kilrah said:

In AP mode it doesn't have to route anymore, so what's most "difficult" and most likely to cap performance is taken away.

ohh, that makes sense. In the future I'm going to get a different brand and see if it performs better just out of curiosity.