Apple screwed this up... - iPad Pro 2020 Review

[RILEYISMYNAME]

The 2020 iPad Pro from Apple is BASICALLY the same as the 2018 iPad Pro... but that's not why we're disappointed.

 

 

 

 

Buy 2020 iPad Pro:

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Buy 2020 iPad Pro Case on Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/KzCjTwi

[TempestCatto]

So they wanna create a touchscreen Macbook but without actually creating a touchscreen Macbook? Got it.

[RILEYISMYNAME]

 

On 4/16/2020 at 3:20 PM, TempestCatto said:

So they wanna create a touchscreen Macbook but without actually creating a touchscreen Macbook? Got it.

Yeeeeep. Doesn't make any got-dang sense

Edited September 17, 2020 by wkdpaul

[TempestCatto]

Just now, RILEYISMYNAME said:

YOU DID IT! 

Yeeeeep. Doesn't make any got-dang sense

Like Linus said in the video (or the script writer that is) Apple doesn't want to admit that Microsoft was right all along. A touchscreen laptop is something people would buy. I can see it honestly creating a lot of extra competition and extra reasons to consider a touchscreen Macbook over another 2 in 1 option. It seems like it'd be easy money - but I guess Apple wants to play hard to get.

[RILEYISMYNAME]

15 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

 

Yeah it's weird. It kind of seems like Apple resisted the Microsoft approach of making ONE OS friendly to both desktops and touch devices, and now they're stuck in the position of having multiple well-fleshed out ecosystems instead of one. WHOOPSIES! 
...
LIDAR tho!! 

[SenKa]

Looks like the iPad Pro is VERY near the perfect college kid device for anybody other than engineering majors (or any other compute-heavy field)

 

The apple pencil is STILL hailed as the best of its breed, so taking notes hand written for things such as law or math classes where there are lots of special symbols and notations will be a treat in tablet mode, and for that 8AM lit class you got fucked taking the keyboard (which i pray is the same magic keyboard on the new air/16" pro) should prove great for writing that research paper due to the much improved maturity of Office 365 on iOS and multi-app support

 

Honestly, if the trackpad doesnt suck and the gestures include 3 finger swipe to swap between apps... i might buy one.

[WillMidgley]

I use an ipad for work constantly, I mix musicals as my day job and the ipad has replaced my paper script. After a couple of hundred shows it has never let me down once. 

 

I have never used the camera on the ipad like other users are saying, I would be perfectly happy to not have one

 

The apple pencil is a dream to work with in a fast paced rehearsal 

[Koitsu]

Hello, I am the guy.

 

I use my ipad pro all the time. But not for the reasons you think of in the video, which I think is why you can't see the kinds of people that would use one. Ignore apple's marketing for a minute because yeah, the ipad pro isn't a macbook replacement.

 

I am a designer, and I work on macos on a macbook pro (I also have a gaming and workstation windows pc as well) primarily. The ipad pro is an amazing companion to that, it would never replace my actual setup, but it works in tandem with it beautifully. I actually replaced my wacom tablet with the ipad pro, and that is its primary function for me.

 

It is a drawing tablet. It's just like a wacom tablet, though you can get bigger wacoms, it's about the same size as the one I was using previously. It's also like less than HALF the price of a similar cintiq. The apple pencil is amazing, it's not as good as a wacom stylus, no, but it's 93% as good. For my work as an art director, as opposed to someone like a digital painter, that is more than enough.

 

I love my workstation setup with 3 monitors and a 34" UW display, and hate working without them, but sometimes I have to. Bringing my ipad pro and using sidecar to basically double my macbook pro's display capabilities and have a super super portable, very fast wireless display is fantastic.

 

When I'm not using it to draw I have it off to the side and use it a a tertiary control device for stuff that isn't directly my work on my monitors, so like what's playing on spotify, or a video conference screen.

 

And at the end of the day it's not just a drawing tablet, you can take it to bed and watch some youtube or browse the web, it's still an ipad and does all the cool ipad stuff.

 

The ipad pro is a tool among many for macos powerusers like myself, it's not and will never be a laptop replacement, not unless they put full macos on it. The guy you think this is for, or that others have mentioned in this thread, like a kid taking notes or a college student who doesn't need much processing power is honestly not even good. I love my ipad pro but like even for those people I would NEVER recommend it over something like a surface, a macbook air, or even like some shitty chromebook. The ipad pro is like $1400 fuckin dollars, you can get a lot of laptop for that, and a real operating system.

 

edit:

 

also fuck apple stop putting rear cameras on the ipad???? This is not a feature that should exist, especially not these weird crazy thick modules. Lidar is cool and stuff but it's a gimmick on the ipad, put it on the iphone! I ask this of all the other ipad pro, professional users (or not professional users even), have you ever used the rear camera? WHO IS THIS ACTUALLY FOR?? The karens using their ipads to take wedding photos or shots of their grandkids are not buying the pro model.

[TempestCatto]

39 minutes ago, WillMidgley said:

I use an ipad for work constantly, I mix musicals as my day job and the ipad has replaced my paper script. After a couple of hundred shows it has never let me down once. 

 

I have never used the camera on the ipad like other users are saying, I would be perfectly happy to not have one

 

The apple pencil is a dream to work with in a fast paced rehearsal 

 

What mixer is that? I do live sound as a side kinda gig. I personally own a Yamaha LS9-32, and hopefully soon a Yamaha M7CL-48. Old bears but I know them very well. I've used Yamaha's TF series - which I'm not a fan of, I've also used a CL1. I quite liked the CL1, and the CL series as a whole. But I've used countless shite tier boards, as I usually use whatever in-house mixer they have. I mostly mix for churches and within those same churches things like weddings, musicals, and so on. I don't get to use nicer consoles much.

On the Yamaha consoles I use an iPad to mix remotely, getting my mixing in during rehearsals as I walk around where the crowd would sit. But for scripts I've been sticking to the ol' fashioned paper and #2 pencil (works okay I guess).

[WillMidgley]

8 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

What mixer is that? I do live sound as a side kinda gig. I personally own a Yamaha LS9-32, and hopefully soon a Yamaha M7CL-48. Old bears but I know them very well. I've used Yamaha's TF series - which I'm not a fan of, I've also used a CL1. I quite liked the CL1, and the CL series as a whole. But I've used countless shite tier boards, as I usually use whatever in-house mixer they have. I mostly mix for churches and within those same churches things like weddings, musicals, and so on. I don't get to use nicer consoles much.

On the Yamaha consoles I use an iPad to mix remotely, getting my mixing in during rehearsals as I walk around where the crowd would sit. But for scripts I've been sticking to the ol' fashioned paper and #2 pencil (works okay I guess).

Its a DIGICO SD7T Quantum, its a crazy expensive desk and needless to say an absolute joy to use. 

 

The old yamaha kit is great, every one knows how to use them which is a huge plus, their CL desk are also pretty solid. I have to admit i'm not a huge fan of their latest desks tho!

 

I had paper scripts for years, one thing I always find hard in a busy mix is when the paper is full of hand written notes and looks a mess I find it a lot harder to read the lines as fast as I need to, so I really like the ipad for being able to scribble down notes and changes very quickly and then later when I have time to go though and tidy it all up, of course you can do that with pen and paper. One other factor I also don't need any additional light to see the script makes it much easier to see amongst everything else 

[Guest]

I really don’t see them marketing it as a MacBook replacement.

[Umberto]

1 hour ago, Koitsu said:

...

it's not and will never be a laptop replacement, not unless they put full macos on it.

...

The ipad pro is like $1400 fuckin dollars, you can get a lot of laptop for that, and a real operating system.

I see this opinion a lot that iOS/iPadOS is not a "real" operating system and that it's just a stripped down version of macOS. But the reality is actually the opposite: Apple hasn't removed features from macOS to make iPadOS -- they have added features on top of macOS to make iPadOS. Just like the last generation of operating systems created "restrictions" like memory protection and preemptive multitasking, this new generation of operating systems expanded on those ideas with sandboxing and more restrictions on running processes' access to system resources. It's a further improvement on the same ideas. It's extra work. More code. 

 

So, iPadOS is not a lesser "toy" system but a more feature rich and more advanced system than its predecessor macOS. It's just not features in the same sense that youtube tech reviewers think. However, if users feel that they are too restricted on an iPad then obviously the available APIs are not enough and need improvement. And as a heavy macOS user I look to the iPad with envy of the features that I'm missing out on. But! Next generation or not, there are things I just can't do on an iPad so I'll just have to wait. 

[Koitsu]

1 minute ago, Umberto said:

So, iPadOS is not a lesser "toy" system but a more feature rich and more advanced system than its predecessor macOS.

This is probably the worst take I've ever heard about the ipad pro. You are absolutely nuts if you think ipados is anywhere near usable as a main operating system. It can't do 10% of what macos can. Even if you were the absolute casualist of all the casual users, as in you only use it for emails, browsing social media and watching youtube, it is STILL way worse than macos.

 

I cannot stress enough how much this is just simply not the case. There is MAYBE the argument to be had that macos is "good enough" for general computing, but there is no chance it is 'more feature rich and more advanced'--that is absolutely laughable.

[Umberto]

2 minutes ago, Koitsu said:

This is probably the worst take I've ever heard about the ipad pro. You are absolutely nuts if you think ipados is anywhere near usable as a main operating system. It can't do 10% of what macos can. Even if you were the absolute casualist of all the casual users, as in you only use it for emails, browsing social media and watching youtube, it is STILL way worse than macos.

 

I cannot stress enough how much this is just simply not the case. There is MAYBE the argument to be had that macos is "good enough" for general computing, but there is no chance it is 'more feature rich and more advanced'--that is absolutely laughable.

You missed my point completely. 

[amckern]

Linus, what happened to your hair?

[SenKa]

2 hours ago, Umberto said:

I see this opinion a lot that iOS/iPadOS is not a "real" operating system and that it's just a stripped down version of macOS. But the reality is actually the opposite: Apple hasn't removed features from macOS to make iPadOS -- they have added features on top of macOS to make iPadOS

?? The only feature im aware of that isnt in macOS that is present is window snapping, which is a necessity... They added features on top of *iOS* to make iPadOS

 

2 hours ago, Umberto said:

 Just like the last generation of operating systems created "restrictions" like memory protection and preemptive multitasking, this new generation of operating systems expanded on those ideas with sandboxing and more restrictions on running processes' access to system resources. It's a further improvement on the same ideas. It's extra work. More code.

This isnt special to iPad OS whatsoever,  even within apples ecosystem.

 

2 hours ago, Umberto said:

So, iPadOS is not a lesser "toy" system but a more feature rich and more advanced system than its predecessor macOS. 

iPad OS is not a desktop operating system whatsoever, stop calling it one and stop comparing it to one.

 

2 hours ago, Umberto said:

However, if users feel that they are too restricted on an iPad then obviously the available APIs are not enough and need improvement. And as a heavy macOS user I look to the iPad with envy of the features that I'm missing out on. But! Next generation or not, there are things I just can't do on an iPad so I'll just have to wait. 

Contradicts the point above. You started that it is more feature rich and advanced than macOS, but there are things you cant do on an iPad that you can on macOS???

Also, what features are you missing out on that arent requisite of a tablet (rear facing cameras)? Actually curious

 

I am a very heavy macOS user myself, and do just about everything i could imagine doing on the go with my 2014 air. I would LOVE to know what im supposedly missing out on. But in no particular order iPad OS is missing-

• Something similar to 2 finger swipe on macOS where i can cycle between full screen windows
• Proper handling of background app management, on apples mobile devices it will simply shut down an app in the background if you are near RAM capacity. This is especially annoying with youtube where you will just lose whatever video you were on.
• Remote Desktop

Those are just three random features i cannot live without on my main device, which is why my main device is not an iPad. Though, there are others that are honestly unrealistic such as wired internet support that I would kill for but know will not happen.

 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Gee, it's almost like it's a hardware refresh to go with a far more interesting software update for, we will note, a larger array of devices

[Jet_ski]

11 hours ago, Koitsu said:

edit:

 

also fuck apple stop putting rear cameras on the ipad???? This is not a feature that should exist, especially not these weird crazy thick modules. Lidar is cool and stuff but it's a gimmick on the ipad, put it on the iphone! I ask this of all the other ipad pro, professional users (or not professional users even), have you ever used the rear camera? WHO IS THIS ACTUALLY FOR?? The karens using their ipads to take wedding photos or shots of their grandkids are not buying the pro model.

I am constantly handed papers that I don’t want to carry, so I just scan it in the Files app using the back camera which automatically detects the edges and saves it as a pdf. It’s an awesome feature. Also engineers and interior decorators use the camera and the sensors to show AR before/after. And in seminars and lectures I use the back camera to record the presentation without a tripod.

 

I don’t know why LTT reviews of the iPad Pro are the way they are, maybe they’ll appreciate the iPad Pro for what it is when they see how it is being used.

 

Here’s why the iPad Pro is very different, and better imo, than the Microsoft Surface lineup. (I have owned the Surface Pro and Surface 2)

1. Reliability: over the last 4 years I have owned both 12.9” iPad Pro generations and not once did my device fail to unlock and let me get to work. I cannot tell you how much time I have lost with Windows tablets.

2. iPad has some truly magnificent apps that are years beyond anything I could find on Windows. A prime example is the LiquidText app. The way it lets you read, mind map, and annotate large documents is amazing. I have included some videos.

3. I absolutely need a stylus for note taking because keyboards are very inefficient when a lot of symbols are involved. Note taking on the iPad is great because you have so many note taking options. I don’t bother with OneNote, it has lost so much of my data that I will never use it; it doesn’t sync correctly across devices and is horrendously unreliable (even on a windows device).

4. Split screen and floating apps are very useful. Sometimes you have to look at a document while taking notes that go beyond a simple annotation. And often I need to lookup something else too. I guess this is standard multitasking but unless you have a larger screen like the 12.9” iPad Pro, it’s quite difficult to read things in split screen.

5. The keyboard accessory isn’t supposed to replace a laptop. It’s for people who sometimes need to type on the go and prefer physical keys.

On average I spend 30 hours per week taking notes or reading on the iPad Pro. While I could do it with the smaller iPads or other tablets, all together it is a much better experience.

 

I have had multiple discussions with people who end up liking the iPad Pro more once they see non-traditional workflows. So here are some screen recordings of how I use the iPad and my favorite apps. Excuse my bad handwriting. Also, the interface is actually very smooth but the screen recorder isn’t capturing it.

Final words on the iPad Pro refresh: I think the logic behind this refresh is that if you are buying an iPad Pro today which was released 2 years ago, then the one that you’re getting should have moderately better hardware. Whereas other manufacturers discount their older designs. I prefer Apple’s way because it doesn’t hurt the people who already own the device as much in terms of residual device value.

 

update: the site won’t let me upload the other clips  .

 

[Umberto]

To clarify, the feature-richness of iOS/iPadOS I talk about are not features like "window-snapping" but specifically security and reliability features. System features. It's not something a regular user would notice or care about, but they are important and they do affect the user experience.

 

Talking about macOS specifically, the last generational leap from Classic Mac OS to Mac OS X gave us, as I mentioned earlier, protected memory and preemptive multitasking.

 

Protected memory is not a feature like "window-snapping", but it's very important nonetheless. Without protected memory, a process can access other processes' memory, which obviously isn't very secure. It could potentially corrupt memory belonging to other processes, which would cause crashes which obviously affects the reliability of a system. However, while having protected memory is more restrictive, more locked down, having it also makes for a more secure and reliable system. It's a feature. The next generational leap from Mac OS X to iPhoneOS (that became iOS and iPadOS) puts even more restrictions on apps. Not only are they restricted to what memory they can access, they are also restricted to which files they can access thanks to the strictly enforced sandboxing on iOS. Just like before we had protected memory and no restrictions on memory access, the desktop app has few restrictions on file acees and can read other apps' files, which isn't very secure, and potentially corrupt them, which isn't very reliable. Some apps use files for inter-process communication which can cause race conditions and all sorts of problems, just like some apps before protected memory would pass pointers between them for the same purpose. Sandboxing is more restrictive, just like protected memory, but it also makes the system more reliable and more secure. It's a feature. 

 

On Classic Mac OS, preemptive multitasking didn't really exist and a process could greedily hog all system resources and prevent other processes from doing work. With Mac OS X and preemptive multitasking, the system decides how resources are shared between processes. This is more restrictive, more locked down, but it also increases reliability. It's a feature. The next iteration on this idea is present in iOS. The app lifecycle in iOS can be simplified in the following states: Foreground -> Background -> Suspended. When an app is in the foreground it has "full" access to system resources but once you hit the home button or switch to a different app, the first app will enter a background state. In the background state the app has limited time to finish up whatever it was doing and unless it explicitly calls any of the provided background APIs (like audio playback, location service etc) the app will be suspended and the system can reclaim it's resources at any time. So the game you opened on your iPhone last week that you still can see in the app switcher, is not running or doing anything, but on the mac the app would just continue to run for a week unless I quit it and if after a week the app hits a bug that makes it use 100% cpu it will ramp up my fans and drain my battery. This scenario is obviously worse in terms of reliability. Restrictive management of app states is a feature, a reliability feature, just not a "window-snapping" feature. 

 

9 hours ago, SenKa said:

?? The only feature im aware of that isnt in macOS that is present is window snapping, which is a necessity... They added features on top of *iOS* to make iPadOS

And they added features on top of macOS to make iOS. That's my point. iOS is macOS with new added things to replace the old (cocoa touch instead of cocoa), removal of old legacy stuff (like carbon) and new security and reliability features. 

 

9 hours ago, SenKa said:

This isnt special to iPad OS whatsoever,  even within apples ecosystem.

iOS launched in 2007 with all these features already in place, and slowly over time they have added new capabilities and new APIs without breaking the security model. The model never changed. It is special to iOS/iPadOS, macOS has been playing catch up ever since and slowly added features like sandboxing, notarization, file access restrictions etc but the fundamental model is different. The mac might get there at some point though but there is a big challenge to migrate the mac app ecosystem to this new model. It might be easier to replace it with apps from the iOS ecosystem (which could be one explanation for mac catalyst). 

 

9 hours ago, SenKa said:

iPad OS is not a desktop operating system whatsoever, stop calling it one and stop comparing it to one.

 

I have never called it a desktop operating. Desktop doesn't mean better necessarily, it just means old. 

 

9 hours ago, SenKa said:

Contradicts the point above. You started that it is more feature rich and advanced than macOS, but there are things you cant do on an iPad that you can on macOS???

Also, what features are you missing out on that arent requisite of a tablet (rear facing cameras)? Actually curious

The underlying technologies are more feature rich, yes. The security model is clearly the future as evident by the fact that the mac is slowly implementing similar features. I need xcode and it doesn't exist for the iPad. That doesn't mean that it can't exist without breaking the security model, it just doesn't yet. The features I'm missing out on on the mac are the security and reliability features that I mentioned. 

 

10 hours ago, SenKa said:

Proper handling of background app management, on apples mobile devices it will simply shut down an app in the background if you are near RAM capacity. This is especially annoying with youtube where you will just lose whatever video you were on.

That's not how it works. There are APIs for persistent state preservation so that's an app-problem, not a system problem. 

[Jet_ski]

@Umberto also what's impressive with iPadOS having these features is how well they work. You can find these features in other non-Apple devices but the implementation in hardware software are usually half assed.

 

Also Microsoft is becoming the IBM of personal computing. They don't care about making things for consumers, everything they do is in the service of enterprise level and corporate clients like backwards compatibility so gov agencies can keep running the same garbage software from 30 years ago. Yes they are making new products like the Surface.... but until they fix all the things that are wrong with Windows 10, they aren't serious. If I want to change the audio settings, why do I have to go to Control Panel, device manager, and the Preferences in the MetroUI to get all the options?! My Microsoft Surface still can't switch between the audio between the headphone jack and the built-in speakers.

 

If you have a Microsoft tablet, please count how many times you've unlocked the device to get some sort of software update prompt or some annoying message that prevented you from doing work.

[xnamkcor]

Are you sure the LiDAR sensor isn't just for detecting speed traps?

[DemMortzz]

lmao @  d-brand's affiliate link (LinusDropTips)

[hishnash]

On 4/17/2020 at 7:47 AM, RILEYISMYNAME said:

Yeah it's weird. It kind of seems like Apple resisted the Microsoft approach of making ONE OS friendly to both desktops and touch devices, and now they're stuck in the position of having multiple well-fleshed out ecosystems instead of one. WHOOPSIES! 
...
LIDAR tho!! 

True however what they have done is focused developers, apples on iPAD even through you can use a mouse will all work well with touch. You cant say that for third party windows applications. So while you can say you can run photoshop in a windows tablet you cant use it in tablet mode, but you can use photoshop on the iPad in tablet mode and with the pencile and with a keyboard and mouse.

(also the compute power of these iPads, even through its a mini bump this year, massively out-performs even medium sized laptops)

[Jet_ski]

On 4/16/2020 at 3:47 PM, RILEYISMYNAME said:

Yeah it's weird. It kind of seems like Apple resisted the Microsoft approach of making ONE OS friendly to both desktops and touch devices, and now they're stuck in the position of having multiple well-fleshed out ecosystems instead of one. WHOOPSIES! 
...
LIDAR tho!! 

I disagree. Apple has implemented the same features on all the different OSs, more or less. But the UI is optimized for the device type which makes for a much better experience. Why would you use touch input on a UI optimized for mouse and keyboard or vice versa?! Effectively the end user is experiencing the same OS on different devices with UIs that are optimized for the device hardware.

 

Whereas with Microsoft’s approach, one OS is made for completely different devices. In Windows 10 the UI is not optimized for any particular kind of input. The result is that you don’t get a solid experience using the OS on any type of device. In Windows 7 everything was made for mouse and keyboard input. You could quickly navigate the start menu. But in Windows 10 some of it is optimized for mouse and keyboard and some of it is optimized for touch input. Navigating the control panel in Windows 10 using a touch screen is atrocious. At the same time navigating the “preferences“ using mouse is just weird, all the buttons are too big and everything is in this monotone color which makes it harder to recognize things.  I remember when Microsoft was transitioning to Edge from IE in order to make it touch screen friendly. They removed so many features that took them years to bring back. Like I mentioned before, this multi input friendly approach has ended up making things messy: some settings can only be accessed in control panel which is optimized for mouse input, other settings are in the “preferences” which is optimized for touch input. And it’s unclear which setting are where in the OS.
 

Another point on why MacBook users doesn’t feel like they are missing a touch input. The trackpad is so large and great to use that it takes longer to reach your hands and touch the screen than it does to just move the cursor. 

[Ashley MLP Fangirl]

On 4/16/2020 at 9:20 PM, TempestCatto said:

So they wanna create a touchscreen Macbook but without actually creating a touchscreen Macbook? Got it.

On 4/16/2020 at 9:27 PM, RILEYISMYNAME said:

Yeeeeep. Doesn't make any got-dang sense

it does make sense, at least to me. macOS isn't optimised for touch input. the buttons are super tiny, etc etc. it's optimised for trackpads and mice. you can use macOS with a touchscreen if you use Sidecar with an iPad, and you've clearly never tried that because it's stupid. 

 

iOS is much better for touch input. it makes sense to me what they're doing. if you want touch input, you can use it with a much better interface made for it. I'm a bit confused by the weird cursor they used for the trackpad on iPadOS, but regardless, it makes sense to me why this exists and a MacBook with a touchscreen doesn't.