Posted February 18, 2014 So since the R9 280X is GCN 1.0, What kind of performance increases can I expect with my stock i5 4670k? Or since it's a beta driver, it'll be all over the place? Asus MAXIMUS VII Gene 2 x 8GB G.Skill 16GB 1600 Mhz Intel 4670k @ 4.3 Ghz Corsair H100i w/ stock fans EVGA GTX 770 SC Intel 750 Series SSD 240GB, Samsung 840 SSD 240GB WD Caviar Green 2TB Seasonic X-650 V3 2 x 140 mm Noctua A14 PPC, 120mm LED Corsair AF120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 so they say. also i know the likeliness of nvidia using mantle is slim but still possible. Well, they have to change architecture of GPU to GCN and that will be a huge problem, as they have GPU tech in research for next 5 to 7 years and all of it is with Nvidia architecture. I hope Mantle will give a huge boost for Pro applications and workstation GPUs and in a year or two we could feel benefit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 So since the R9 280X is GCN 1.0, What kind of performance increases can I expect with my stock i5 4670k? Or since it's a beta driver, it'll be all over the place? Well, on average it`s about 5-15%, depends on level and graphical settings. I think from Mantle the most increase will be if you use two or three cards in CF with a very strong CPU. That would be next thing for Linus to test, 3960X with 2x 290X and 3x 290X and same with lower end cards like 280X and 270X in CF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Well, they have to change architecture of GPU to GCN and that will be a huge problem, as they have GPU tech in research for next 5 to 7 years and all of it is with Nvidia architecture. I hope Mantle will give a huge boost for Pro applications and workstation GPUs and in a year or two we could feel benefit from it. no they would just have to change mantle from using gcn to whatever nvidia uses and its not going to be that amd wont make it open the reason why it will most likely never happen is because nvidia has to much pride to use the competitions technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Author yeah, hopefully we get some great RTS games and games with heavy CPU usage in the near future. At this point, having had experience with both technologies which do you think is better for the gamer, mantle or g-sync ? Hard to say to be honest. G-SYNC requires a fancy new monitor that isn't available yet. Mantle requires a fancy new graphics card or APU (to really get the most of it), a shoddy CPU, and games that aren't available yet. My enthusiasm for both has been damped significantly since my initial excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 dont really care much for mantle until they "apparently" can fix the lower graphics and it becomes available on nvidia. Yeah, right, because a company as conceited as nvidia would concede to the idea of a rival company's innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 no they would just have to change mantle from using gcn to whatever nvidia uses and its not going to be that amd wont make it open the reason why it will most likely never happen is because nvidia has to much pride to use the competitions technology. Unfortunately that will not happen, as Nvidia has to give all info about architecture of their GPUs, so by doing that Nvidia will lose any advantage in research that they have. Not without a reason it is a low level API and only working with GCN. We can hope that Mantle will push DX optimization, it wont be as good as Mantle but a lot better then it is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Hard to say to be honest. G-SYNC requires a fancy new monitor that isn't available yet. Mantle requires a fancy new graphics card or APU (to really get the most of it), a shoddy CPU, and games that aren't available yet. My enthusiasm for both has been damped significantly since my initial excitement. To be fair your initial excitement is always quite high, it's one of the reasons your videos are so popular. Has slick done tests with 290/290 crossfire through quad crossfire in mantel yet? it would be killer to see how it scales at the ultra high end. System CPU : Ryzen 9 5950 doing whatever PBO lets it. Motherboard : Asus B550 Wifi II RAM 80GB 3600 CL 18 2x 32GB 2x 8GB GPUs Vega 56 & Tesla M40 Corsair 4000D Storage: many and varied small (512GB-1TB) SSD + 5TB WD Green PSU 1000W EVGA GOLD You can trust me, I'm from the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 We thought about showing the results, but the issue was that they looked so wrong to us that we figured "those number must be f***ed" so we re-ran and re-ran and re-ran and they're fine. But they still looked horrible, so we figured the only conclusion a viewer could draw looking at those number is the same one we did. There must be something wrong. Except that we don't' think there is. So we looked at what other review sites are doing and ran the same scenarios they did, and we were able to produce those same numbers. The only conclusion we can draw is that everyone *wants* to show what Mantle is capable of, but because it's BETA they are avoiding the scenarios where it just plain doesn't make ANY sense... Yooo Linus mate, your results may have been screwed up (I assume mainly for everything other than the 290 Series) because AMD said in the beta notes that they are yet to optimise the game for 7000 Series, 270/X's and 280X's and will do so in future driver releases. As a result, I saw my Mantle performance with my 7870 was actually considerably worse and I saw lots of frame rate drops but yeah. This is exactly what it says Known Issues Mantle performance for the AMD Radeon™ HD 7000/HD 8000 Series GPUs and AMD Radeon™ R9 280X and R9 270X GPUs will be optimized for BattleField 4™ in future AMD Catalyst™ releases. These products will see limited gains in BattleField 4™ and AMD is currently investigating optimizations for them. I'm not sure if you already knew that so if you did, sorry haha. THE BEAST - Motherboard: MSI B350 Tomahawk CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700 GPU: Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X OC RAM: 16GB G.Skill FlareX DDR4 PSU: Corsair CX650M Case: Corsair 200R SSD: Kingston 240GB SSD Plus HDD: 1TB WD Green Drive and Seagate Barracuda 2TB Media Drive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Mickey Mantle > AMD's Mantle As for AMD's Mantle while I am happy AMD is making strides and making things more difficult for Nvidia creating competition in the marketplace I am still going to go Green Team when I can because of physX. Too many ****ing games! Back log 4 life! :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Arma 3 and Planetside 2 should adopt mantle, two games we'd say major improvements in and be a proof of concept. (at least until Star Citizen since I doubt Thief will benefit much) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Nice work guys, but there something I don't get. Why is a CPU heavy game good to test Mental? Wouldn't that mean that the CPU is the bottleneck and the GPU isn't working at 100%? Wouldn't a game that stresses the GPU and makes it the bottleneck be a better representation of how well it performs? What am I missing here? CPU: Intel i7 950 | GPU: MSI GTX 970 4GB | SSD: 256GB 840 Pro | HDD 1: SAMSUNG HD103SJ 1TB | HDD 2: WD 320GB | RAM: Crucial XMS3 12GB (6x 2GB) | Case: Corsair R200 | PSU: LCPower 650W | Cooling: Cooler Master 212 Evo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Nice work guys, but there something I don't get. Why is a CPU heavy game good to test Mental? Wouldn't that mean that the CPU is the bottleneck and the GPU isn't working at 100%? Wouldn't a game that stresses the GPU and makes it the bottleneck be a better representation of how well it performs? What am I missing here? Mantel is an API built to reduce the required interactions with the CPU meaning the CPU can be working with other things and you will still get killer frames, if the CPU had more than enough time to respond to everything the video card was asking for in the first place you will see no improvement. In theory It allows CPU to focus on tasks that they couldn't before because they needed to be ready to tell the GPU what to do or your frame rate would crash. System CPU : Ryzen 9 5950 doing whatever PBO lets it. Motherboard : Asus B550 Wifi II RAM 80GB 3600 CL 18 2x 32GB 2x 8GB GPUs Vega 56 & Tesla M40 Corsair 4000D Storage: many and varied small (512GB-1TB) SSD + 5TB WD Green PSU 1000W EVGA GOLD You can trust me, I'm from the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Linus just started a new topic. 'Geforce 750ti' interesting... Motherboard - Gigabyte P67A-UD5 Processor - Intel Core i7-2600K RAM - G.Skill Ripjaws @1600 8GB Graphics Cards - MSI and EVGA GeForce GTX 580 SLI PSU - Cooler Master Silent Pro 1,000w SSD - OCZ Vertex 3 120GB x2 HDD - WD Caviar Black 1TB Case - Corsair Obsidian 600D Audio - Asus Xonar DG Hail Sithis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Linus just started a new topic. 'Geforce 750ti' interesting... Either your lying or I'm blind ... but it's hard to believe someone with Barrowman as their avatar would lie. System CPU : Ryzen 9 5950 doing whatever PBO lets it. Motherboard : Asus B550 Wifi II RAM 80GB 3600 CL 18 2x 32GB 2x 8GB GPUs Vega 56 & Tesla M40 Corsair 4000D Storage: many and varied small (512GB-1TB) SSD + 5TB WD Green PSU 1000W EVGA GOLD You can trust me, I'm from the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Either your lying or I'm blind ... but it's hard to believe someone with Barrowman as their avatar would lie. Motherboard - Gigabyte P67A-UD5 Processor - Intel Core i7-2600K RAM - G.Skill Ripjaws @1600 8GB Graphics Cards - MSI and EVGA GeForce GTX 580 SLI PSU - Cooler Master Silent Pro 1,000w SSD - OCZ Vertex 3 120GB x2 HDD - WD Caviar Black 1TB Case - Corsair Obsidian 600D Audio - Asus Xonar DG Hail Sithis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Well this means I'm blind but i still cant find it in his post feed. System CPU : Ryzen 9 5950 doing whatever PBO lets it. Motherboard : Asus B550 Wifi II RAM 80GB 3600 CL 18 2x 32GB 2x 8GB GPUs Vega 56 & Tesla M40 Corsair 4000D Storage: many and varied small (512GB-1TB) SSD + 5TB WD Green PSU 1000W EVGA GOLD You can trust me, I'm from the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Well this means I'm blind but i still cant find it in his post feed.probably for taken down. I can't click it. I don't have permission.... Sneaky Linus :-PBarrowman never lies btw. He's too sexy Motherboard - Gigabyte P67A-UD5 Processor - Intel Core i7-2600K RAM - G.Skill Ripjaws @1600 8GB Graphics Cards - MSI and EVGA GeForce GTX 580 SLI PSU - Cooler Master Silent Pro 1,000w SSD - OCZ Vertex 3 120GB x2 HDD - WD Caviar Black 1TB Case - Corsair Obsidian 600D Audio - Asus Xonar DG Hail Sithis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Damn it Barrowman always a tease . System CPU : Ryzen 9 5950 doing whatever PBO lets it. Motherboard : Asus B550 Wifi II RAM 80GB 3600 CL 18 2x 32GB 2x 8GB GPUs Vega 56 & Tesla M40 Corsair 4000D Storage: many and varied small (512GB-1TB) SSD + 5TB WD Green PSU 1000W EVGA GOLD You can trust me, I'm from the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 So we looked at what other review sites are doing and ran the same scenarios they did, and we were able to produce those same numbers. The only conclusion we can draw is that everyone *wants* to show what Mantle is capable of, but because it's BETA they are avoiding the scenarios where it just plain doesn't make ANY sense... Linus, I felt like this was a good video, Mantle was explained really well, but after watching it, it felt a bit short and nothing was really presented apart from the few graphs which showed better performance with Mantle in BF4. I guess it would have been nice to have had some other things explained such as all the rumours about the graphics quality being better with DirectX as opposed to Mantle and weird things about colours and shadows. On top of that, I felt as if it was too focused on saying that Mantle was incomplete. I like how Slick talked about the future possibilities for Mantle, but the two key things missing (IMHO) is that there was no discussion as to the gaming experience with Mantle (like the experience is more than just FPS, are the minimums better, is the image quality better/worse...etc.) and the other thing was a discussion into whether Mantle actually delivers better performance on an 8350 as opposed to a 4670K, which is what everyone seems to be saying, but is contradictory to AMD's own graphs and presentations. On top of that, I'm just curious as to why you guys chose the 3960X as the processor. I know it's a good chip, I use SB-E myself, but why not something more in-tune with what an average gamer would use, e.g. a 4670K. Either way, an entertaining watch as usual! My Personal Rig - AMD 3970X | ASUS sTRX4-Pro | RTX 2080 Super | 64GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB DDR4 | CoolerMaster H500P Mesh My Wife's Rig - AMD 3900X | MSI B450I Gaming | 5500 XT 4GB | 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3200 | Silverstone SG13 White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Damn it Barrowman always a tease . *flips hair you know it Motherboard - Gigabyte P67A-UD5 Processor - Intel Core i7-2600K RAM - G.Skill Ripjaws @1600 8GB Graphics Cards - MSI and EVGA GeForce GTX 580 SLI PSU - Cooler Master Silent Pro 1,000w SSD - OCZ Vertex 3 120GB x2 HDD - WD Caviar Black 1TB Case - Corsair Obsidian 600D Audio - Asus Xonar DG Hail Sithis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Unfortunately that will not happen, as Nvidia has to give all info about architecture of their GPUs, so by doing that Nvidia will lose any advantage in research that they have. Not without a reason it is a low level API and only working with GCN. We can hope that Mantle will push DX optimization, it wont be as good as Mantle but a lot better then it is right now. if amd made it open source couldnt nvidia make there own version that works with there cards just credit amd for the base code? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 if amd made it open source couldnt nvidia make there own version that works with there cards just credit amd for the base code? i doubt AMD would even require them to credit them they can only gain by more developers adopting an API that makes their CPUs relevant for gaming. System CPU : Ryzen 9 5950 doing whatever PBO lets it. Motherboard : Asus B550 Wifi II RAM 80GB 3600 CL 18 2x 32GB 2x 8GB GPUs Vega 56 & Tesla M40 Corsair 4000D Storage: many and varied small (512GB-1TB) SSD + 5TB WD Green PSU 1000W EVGA GOLD You can trust me, I'm from the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 AMD may or may not be fixing the issues you found. Everyone else has mostly shown that everything is OK but all over the forums are people having problems and weird performance using it, a lot of people are turning it off. I get why it might be representative of the future to show the issues, but based on how AMD handled the crossfire frame pacing issue the press needs to show the problems to get them to fix it. It was well known for the 1.5 years before that frame pacing fix came out that SLI was superior despite the FPS shown and yet it took pcper.com and the FCAT results to get AMD to finally admit there was a problem despite all the bugs their customers raised with them. I think you guys have a duty to raise the concerns so that AMD can go about addressing them, if you don't they might never bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah, right, because a company as conceited as nvidia would concede to the idea of a rival company's innovation. read my other comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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