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Chris_Hend0712

Linus missing the mark

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Don't hate me but I play on console but I do it because it is a lot cheaper of an initial buy in than PC Gaming. However, I feel like this is never addressed by LTT when they make a PC and compare it to a console. An example of this would be the video that came out today with the NZXT H1 case that has a 2070 Super in it with beefed up specs. With the new generation of consoles coming out, I would consider the upgrade since I'm gonna have to spend around $500 anyways. Obviously with the H1 costing $350 I'd have to spend more but thats okay with me. I've got no allegiance to the red or blue teams so I'm up for suggestions. I've never built a system but I think I've watched enough LTT to be able to manage on my own.

 

What does the LTT fan base think would make the H1 build more competitive/attractive to a console buyer?

 

Thanks! :D

 

(This is also my first forum post so I hope I've done this correct.)

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it isn't really aimed at a console killer in any way other than size. you'd be much better served by a 50$ case, PSU, and a 50$ air cooler. even then you likely don't need the added cooler.

150$vs350$

if your after a PC we can guide you in parts selection.


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In my opinion the most ignored factor in comparisons between consoles and PCs is time.

New console releases don't happen as often as PC hardware releases. So there is a large value difference between the beginning and the end of a console lifecycle.

 

When the XBox One came out it was a very competitive system and very hard to beat with a PC at a similar price point.

Now it's easier for a PC to have a better value, but when the new XBox Series X has launched this will most likely change again.

 

I think it is also important to measure value not only by performance and price, but also by subjective aspects.

Some people might just like the very streamlined experience of a console or the very simple user interface or clean design.

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2 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

In my opinion the most ignored factor in comparisons between consoles and PCs is time.

I'm going to say it is cost over ownership.

Games cost more and have to be re bought, paying for online costs. a 500$ console that works for 10 years easily costs another 1K in higher game costs and internet access. that same money could constantly upgrade a PC with better budget parts or get more games if you are happy with how it runs.

 

clean design? I think the current PS4 and xbox look closer to a 2006 HP SFF than anything decent looking. They sound like one also


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

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9 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

I'm going to say it is cost over ownership.

Games cost more and have to be re bought, paying for online costs. a 500$ console that works for 10 years easily costs another 1K in higher game costs and internet access. that same money could constantly upgrade a PC with better budget parts or get more games if you are happy with how it runs.

 

clean design? I think the current PS4 and xbox look closer to a 2006 HP SFF than anything decent looking. They sound like one also

Yes, games do cost more a lot of the time and yes there are online-fees associated with owning a console.

But the upfront cost of owning a console is very low.

 

I don't want to go into detail about costs tho. They depend so much on time of purchase and location. In Germany (where I live) the $500 console basically doesn't exist. I've seen Playstation 4s being sold for 249€. The prices are like wild rollercosters.

 

Design is subjective. If someone likes the design, what are you going to argue with? That your taste is simply better? ;) 

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4 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

I'm going to say it is cost over ownership.

Games cost more and have to be re bought, paying for online costs. a 500$ console that works for 10 years easily costs another 1K in higher game costs and internet access. that same money could constantly upgrade a PC with better budget parts or get more games if you are happy with how it runs.

 

clean design? I think the current PS4 and xbox look closer to a 2006 HP SFF than anything decent looking. They sound like one also

The TCO (Total cost of ownership) for a Counsle is Lower If you only end up playing like 5 games on it ever, because counsle games pretty much always cost $60.

 

But if you buy ton's of games, the steam sales can easily outweigh the initial cost of a Gaming PC. 

 

Not to mention you can piece together some Dell Optiplex and chuck a GTX 1050 ti in it for $300. But very few people do that. 

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The H1 itself is just a case. The H1 PC sold by NZXT is $2000

The 2070 Super alone is $500+

You can however build a decent mid range pc new for around $700

and a decent used budget mid range for around $300

 

In my personal opinion. a PC is a better value considering it can be used for more than gaming.

However if you want to focus on the Gaming aspect alone. If you plan to Game a lot, you can usually get PC Games quite a bit cheaper. So you could save more money in the long run, especially if you like older titles. Now if you think you are only going to play 3 or 4 Games a year on average and you don't need a PC, the console is obviously your better choice.

 

For a happy median though, you could pick up a somewhat outdated 4th gen i7 pc for around $150 and a used 1060 6GB for around $100. If you don't care about max settings and can live with 1080p its a good value for the casual gamer. Of courses prices vary by area.

 


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17 hours ago, CircleTech said:

But if you buy ton's of games, the steam sales can easily outweigh the initial cost of a Gaming PC.

But if you buy ton's of games, the second hand games stores can easily outweigh the initial cost of a Gaming Console. 🤗


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To my mind, consoles and PCs aren't comparable. I love both, but nothing a PC offers will compare to a Nintendo Switch experience. Or even a PS4. If someone loves their console gaming, no PC will tempt them to the master race side.

 


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18 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

I'm going to say it is cost over ownership.

Games cost more and have to be re bought, paying for online costs. a 500$ console that works for 10 years easily costs another 1K in higher game costs and internet access. that same money could constantly upgrade a PC with better budget parts or get more games if you are happy with how it runs.

 

clean design? I think the current PS4 and xbox look closer to a 2006 HP SFF than anything decent looking. They sound like one also

Disagree on the game cost point. Game costs are about the same these days. 

 

And since consoles have the advantage of having a used game market its alot easier to find better deals then pc games. Theres been plenty of older games ive ended up buying for xbox instead of pc because i could find it used for less then half the cost of what pc has it.

 

 

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The point of consoles is they are plug and play experience. Literally. You just buy the thing and it's guaranteed that games will just work and they'll work at expected performance through entire life of the device.

 

Where on PC, you'll always have drivers fiddling, updates fiddling, platform specific problems because you run this GPU and not the other and because your motherboard X has problems with Y and it barely runs at 30fps because you have Z graphic card. Sure, it also has beneficial perks like more multipurpose device and ability to use custom mods or long term compatibility (I can play 25+ years old games on my PC, good luck with that on any console).

 

I'm more of a PC guy and the furthest my console experience went is PS2 that I still own, but I can understand the appeal of the consoles. I just hate the gamepads, especially for FPS games. They are just so clumsy. But if I'll be able to play games using mouse and keyboard (which apparently will be a thing next generation), I might be tempted to buy a console again.

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Both MS and Sony have always positioned their consoles as loss leaders, because platform licensing fees, subscriptions & microtransactions are where they make it all back and then some, particualrly as these elements are almost pure profit for them. Nintendo is the only one who doesn't tend to flog their hardware at below-cost.

 

How do people not even know this?

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Consoles and PCs aren't even really comparable as one works within a STRICT environment of rules, and thus its components (console) can work super efficiently compared to a PC. 

 

Whereas a PC has an OS, and deals with compatibility requirements across many...many...many years.  


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In my analysis, the choice between PC and console should not be made solely by financial concerns, but by first considering the personal concerns. That is to say, someone who is considering switching from console to PC must first convince themselves that they want to switch to PC for reasons other than money before moving on to the financial aspect of PC ownership.

Acquiring and owning a PC is more work than acquiring and owning a console, during both phases.

 

During the acquisition phase a PC requires researching the specifications of individual components and generating an overall specification describing the computer that you want to end up with. You then either have to purchase those parts separately and build it yourself, increasing both mental and physical labor over consoles, or have someone build it for you, still increasing mental labor over consoles.

During the acquisition phase a console requires going to the store, online or brick and mortar, and buying the most expensive model you can justify.

During the ownership phase, a PC requires periodic cleaning, both of the filesystem and the physical machine. This increases both physical and mental labor over consoles. Additionally, the PC requires the owner/administrator be responsible for keeping software up to date while being cognizant of compatibility issues between different software, and adjusting software settings, including game settings, to take best advantage of the specific components in the machine. This increases mental labor over consoles as well.

During the ownership phase a console requires being impatient while your console fixes it's own compatibility issues and maintains itself. If you are an above average console owner, it may require periodic physical cleaning.

However, in my opinion, the payoffs associated with each scale well with the costs of ownership: You can do much more with a PC than you can with a console. A console can play games, some minor applications like streaming services, and can browse the web. On the other hand, a PC can do anything that a computer can do. To go vintage Commodore a computer can "help you do your taxes, manage your business, and keep your kids busy. As you grow with it, it grows with you".


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23 hours ago, CircleTech said:

The TCO (Total cost of ownership) for a Counsle is Lower If you only end up playing like 5 games on it ever, because counsle games pretty much always cost $60.

 

But if you buy ton's of games, the steam sales can easily outweigh the initial cost of a Gaming PC. 

 

Not to mention you can piece together some Dell Optiplex and chuck a GTX 1050 ti in it for $300. But very few people do that. 

Also you can easily pirate games on PC. Or even just play free games. When I played on console, I had nowhere near the game library that I do on PC. I could afford to buy maybe 6 games in total, and the ones that were bad (Looking at you Star Wars Battlefront), never got any playtime. I played like GTA5 and Overwatch back then. $360 of games and I only played 2 of them. And then I had to pay 10 dollars a month to even access multiplayer.


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 Not every PC is supposed to be cheap.

They do make console comparative videos.


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O boy someone opened the PC vs Console door....Just play on whatever you enjoy and enjoy videos for entertainment. If your thinking there is some weird agenda then your thinking too hard about some videos. 

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I've saved so much money since I switched to PC. Especially since I was pretty Nintendo oriented before, and their games don't drop in price. It's definitely true that the upfront cost was a lot higher (especially since I made some terrible choices on my original build, and ended up having to replace almost everything), but I rarely pay more than $10 for a game now. I am happy to just be a couple years behind on releases and save a crazy amount of money. It's not like console where you have a very limited library at the start of every generation.

 


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Honestly as someone who switched from console to pc I would say that the experience is simply different. I could not switch back at this point because I am way to use to being able to control how I want to play my games. I have a 1080p 240hz monitor and a 4k 144hz monitor and neither can be used properly by a console and both require some tinkering with video settings in games to make them play how I want them. Consoles you just dont have that kind of control like fov sliders and choosable frame caps. Also keyboard and mouse are so much better IMO and it is impossible for me to go back to controller for any fps game. Some games controllers make sense like dark souls but for the most part I can't handle play on a controller anymore. 

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I have recently gotten into PC gaming.  I had taken a OptiPlex and put a 1070 in it about a year ago.  I just upgraded the MOBO and a Ryzen 3700x.  My first build with the OptiPlex cost about $300 the money I saved on games was enough to upgrade the Mobo and CPU.  Humble Bundle is a great way to get a lot of good games for dirt cheap.   I still have my switch, but I do not see a need to get a PS5 or Xbox X.

 

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On 3/31/2020 at 10:16 PM, GDRRiley said:

I'm going to say it is cost over ownership.

Games cost more and have to be re bought, paying for online costs. a 500$ console that works for 10 years easily costs another 1K in higher game costs and internet access. that same money could constantly upgrade a PC with better budget parts or get more games if you are happy with how it runs.

 

clean design? I think the current PS4 and xbox look closer to a 2006 HP SFF than anything decent looking. They sound like one also

Not really, you can always get game pass which is the same cost as a couple of Full price games a year. If you want to buy games on PC at launch it’s the same price and games like CoD are on Battle.net now and don’t drop in price often and by very little if they do.

 

Take Borderlands 3 for example, just come onto steam and was on a 50% sale for the first few days, I bought the GoTY edition or whatever they’re calling it for £40, the base game was £25. I can get the base game for £23 all the time on amazon for console or £25 at game new. £15 preowned. 
 

 

And if you don’t want to play online then why pay the fee? You get free games with it anyway. 


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@Lord Vile while this happens rarely if you're building a new pc some expensive components come bundled with those games. Also has anybody mentioned that you actually don't have to pay for your games if you're a total jerk and could care less about the devs with torrents. One of my friends try games that way. He gets it for free using a torrent and try's it and if he likes the game he actually buys it. So technically you can get all of your games for free or have an unlimited test period for that game which you just can't do on ps4/xbox.

 

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2 hours ago, Gundar said:

@Lord Vile while this happens rarely if you're building a new pc some expensive components come bundled with those games. Also has anybody mentioned that you actually don't have to pay for your games if you're a total jerk and could care less about the devs with torrents. One of my friends try games that way. He gets it for free using a torrent and try's it and if he likes the game he actually buys it. So technically you can get all of your games for free or have an unlimited test period for that game which you just can't do on ps4/xbox.

 

Expensive components make the cost higher though. 
 

Torrenting is ILLEGAL. Also through steam if you want to try it you can for 2 weeks or 2 hours and refund it. I get older games that you can’t actually buy anymore but If you’re getting ones that are freely available to purchase then you deserve your computer or bank account imploding through malware. 


Dirty Windows Peasants :P ?

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Depends on why you'd be buying a console. If money isn't a problem and you just want a system to play games on your living room TV then size, noise and looks come into play.

 

In my opinion if you're tight on money you have no business buying new hardware in general, be it console or PC - always go used. Electronics barely deteriorate with use unless they're abused (except for storage drives but those are cheap).

12 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Torrenting is ILLEGAL.

Torrenting is not illegal. Piracy is illegal. You can legally torrent as much as you want so long as the copyright holder of what you're downloading allows redistribution of the software or art piece.

16 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

I get older games that you can’t actually buy anymore but If you’re getting ones that are freely available to purchase then you deserve your computer or bank account imploding through malware. 

That sounds like a pretty arbitrary distinction - if you have a problem with copyright why do you consider some instances of breaking it morally acceptable and not others?


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-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

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-OnePlus X - [7/10]

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-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

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-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

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Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Sauron said:

Depends on why you'd be buying a console. If money isn't a problem and you just want a system to play games on your living room TV then size, noise and looks come into play.

 

In my opinion if you're tight on money you have no business buying new hardware in general, be it console or PC - always go used. Electronics barely deteriorate with use unless they're abused (except for storage drives but those are cheap).

Torrenting is not illegal. Piracy is illegal. You can legally torrent as much as you want so long as the copyright holder of what you're downloading allows redistribution of the software or art piece.

That sounds like a pretty arbitrary distinction - if you have a problem with copyright why do you consider some instances of breaking it morally acceptable and not others?

What else is torrenting used for exactly? For the most part it’s piracy and it always had been. 

 

Easy, if you can’t buy something new you can only buy it used, a lot of older games therefore are stupidly expensive and are not being sold by the devs, ergo the devs aren’t making any money from it. 


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