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williamcll

Faster than the standards (update: and your CPU clock) - 2020 is the year of DDR5 (but not for the most of us)

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Update: It seems like SK Hynix has also began manufacturing DDR5 chips, claiming speeds of up to 8400Mhz, shocking but it will be awhile before we see any real life applications

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So, what kind of advantages will DDR5 offer over its predecessor? Well, SK Hynix is claiming that DDR5 will ultimately offer twice the bandwidth currently available with DDR4 modules. With processor core counts increasingly skyrocketing on modern processors (consumer desktop processors can hit 16 cores and 32 threads, with prosumer platforms hitting the 64-core/128-thread), SK Hynix says that the next-generation DDR5 is poised to help satisfy these bandwidth needs. Current DDR4 modules top out at a JEDEC-certified DDR4-3200, although we've definitely seen some modules "boosted" to DDR4-4866 speeds (we're looking at you, Corsair). DDR5 will provide at least a 50 percent boost in bandwidth, meaning that DDR5-4800 should commonplace once the first modules start hitting the market. But speeds will ramp up from there, with SK Hynix claiming that JEDEC speeds will reach DDR5-8400 in the future. All of this will come with modules that have an operating voltage of just 1.1V, compared to 1.2V for DDR4. There will also be on-die error correction for "more reliable technology node scaling by correcting single bit errors internally". DDR5 also adheres to a 32banks structure, featuring 8 bank groups, which is an upgrade from the 16banks/4 bank groups used in DDR4. Burst length has also been doubled to 16 versus 8 for DDR4. In addition, DDR5 takes advantage of Same Bank Refresh, which allows it to perform additional operations during refresh timing. SK Hynix says this feature along provides better memory access availability. “In the 4th Industrial Revolution, which is represented by 5G, autonomous vehicle, AI, augmented reality (AR), virtual reality (VR), big data, and other applications, DDR5 DRAM can be utilized for next-gen high performance computing (HPC) and AI-based data analysis,” said Sungsoo Ryu, who is SK Hynix's Head of DRAM Product Planning. “DDR5 will also offer a wider range of density based on 16Gb and even 24Gb monolithic die, in order to meet the needs of cloud service customers. By supporting higher density and performance scalability compared to its predecessor, DDR5 has set a firm foothold to lead the era of big data and AI."  IDC is forecasting that DDR5 will capture 22 percent of the overall DRAM market in 2020, with that figure nearly doubling to 43 percent in 2022. For its part, SK Hynix says that it will begin DDR5 mass production later this year.

big_sk_hynix_ddr5_infographic.png

Source: https://hothardware.com/news/sk-hynix-ddr5-dram-mass-production-starts-this-year-ddr5-8400

 

While previously someone from chiphell.com managed to test a DDR5-5000 CL22 RAM from micron, another company seems to be taking a more aggressive approach to push the new memory in to the market, starting with a slower DDR5-4800 and aiming for the server/enterprise systems.

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JEDEC still has not published the DDR5 specification officially, yet it looks like DRAM makers and SoC designers are preparing for the DDR5 launch at full steam. Cadence, which was vocal about the new technology back in 2018, and has since released provisional DDR5 IP (the DDR5 controller and PHY) commercially, this week presented some additional information about the upcoming DDR5 market release as well as the technology's progress.

Cadence is confident that its DDR5 controller and PHY are compliant to the formal JEDEC specification, so SoCs that use its IP will be compatible with upcoming DDR5 memory modules.

cadence-ddr5-678_575px.jpg

Cadence's DDR5 testboard with a module on it

Here is what Marc Greenberg, director of DRAM IP marketing at Cadence, said:

“Close participation in the JEDEC working groups is an advantage. We get insight into how the standard will develop. We are a controller and PHY vendor and can anticipate any potential changes on the way to final standardization. In the early days of the standardization, we were able to adopt standard elements under development and work together with our partners to get very early working silicon. As we approach the release of the standard, we get more proof points to indicate that our IP will support DDR5 devices compliant to the standard.”

For Starters: 16 Gb DDR5-4800

Transition to DDR5 represents a major challenge for DRAM makers because the chips are set to increase capacity, rise data transfer rates, increase effective performance (per clock and per channel), and lower power consumption all at the same time (read more here and here). In addition, DDR5 is expected to make it easier to stack multiple DRAM devices, which will allow to increase DRAM capacity in servers (from what we have today).

will certainly be faster than those used in servers.

Mr. Greenberg, said the following:

“DDR4 went to 3200 just this year. Adoption of DDR speed grades happens quite slowly. DDR5 is the next step. It is a big leap in bit rate performance. But it will then hang there for 12-18 months, then go up to 5200, and 5600 after that. We are back on the treadmill of one speed grade every 12-18 months.”

In fact, the step from DDR4-3200 to DDR5-4800 will bring a huge performance bump, but it does not end there for servers. Because of 16 Gb chips, internal DDR5 architecture optimizations, new server architectures, and usage of RDIMMs instead of LRDIMMs, single-socket systems with 256 GB DDR5 modules will get a nice performance increase in terms of latency (vs. today’s LRDIMMs).

Here is what Mr. Greenberg said:

“A lot of these machines have 8 channels on a processor [socket], each [channel] with 512 GB, making a 4 TB memory machine where you can access any byte in under 100 ns. If a database index is 4 TB, you can imagine how big a database could be supported. Quite a beast.”

Keeping in mind that AMD’s EPYC ‘Rome’ CPUs already have eight memory channels and support up to 4 TB of DDR4 DRAM per socket using 256 GB RDIMMs, one can take advantage of low latency (vs. LRDIMMs) even today, but not at DDR5’s speeds. Meanwhile, systems with LRDIMM support can have up to 4.5 TB per socket, but at a cost of additional latency.

DDR5 Shipping This Year?

As noted above, AMD’s Genoa and Intel’s Sapphire Rapids are not due until very late 2021, or rather early 2022, but Cadence seems to be optimistic and believes that ‘2020 will be the year of DDR5’. From Cadence’s perspective, this might mean tapeouts of actual DDR5-supporting SoCs (which is about time), but the company’s internal analysis shows that it expects DRAM vendors to actually start shipments of DDR5 memory this year.

cadence-ddr5-prediction-2020_575px.png

Memory makers tend to start volume shipments of new types of DRAM ahead of general availability of platforms. Meanwhile, shipping a year before AMD’s Genoa and Intel’s Sapphire Rapids seems a bit early, but has several reasonable explanations: AMD’s and Intel’s DDR5-supporting processors are closer than communicated by the two companies, there are DDR5-supporting SoCs that are coming to market well ahead of those from AMD and Intel, system makers need time to test DDR5 modules and stock them ahead of major product launches.

In any case, if the DDR5 specification is at the Final Draft stage, it is possible for major DRAM makers to kick off volume production even without a published standard. Theoretically, SoC developers can also send their designs to manufacturing at this stage. Meanwhile, it is hard to imagine DDR5 to capture any sizeable market share in 2020 – 2021 timeframe without support from the major CPU vendors.

 

Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/15671/cadence-ddr5-update-launching-at-4800-mbps-over-12-ddr5-socs-in-development

Thoughts: I do wonder what current processors or motherboards are able to manage DDR5, but having the DDR3 prices go down even further would be great, maybe someone should make a Hard drive adaptor that adds DDR3 cache.


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I'm still running DDR3 so more drops in DDR3 prices will be welcomed.


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16 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

I'm still running DDR3 so more drops in DDR3 prices will be welcomed.

I thought that when ddr4 came out "oh nice cheap prices" but no, DDR2 GOT MORE EXPENSIVE


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17 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

I'm still running DDR3 so more drops in DDR3 prices will be welcomed.

good luck with that 

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17 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

I'm still running DDR3 so more drops in DDR3 prices will be welcomed.

stockpile it now man, it's only gonna get worse


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4TB of RAM tables for database that would be great but it's also crazy expensive. Not forgetting those server in enterprise world need at least 1 DR spec'd exactly the same way

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18 hours ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

I'm still running DDR3 so more drops in DDR3 prices will be welcomed.

amazes me how long I've been able to rock this Intel 3960X

It's literally been long enough that AMD has come out with a chip called the "3960X"

xD


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I am colorblind and this chart is impossible to read without some photoshop dropper tool.

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11 hours ago, Vanderburg said:

I am colorblind and this chart is impossible to read without some photoshop dropper tool.

 

image.thumb.png.41e95fbd16deb84da87ec4ef83707b0d.png

 

[EDIT] for those without colourblind ness this is a simulation of how it might look to someone with it (that said there are many types of colour bind ness so this is jus one of them)image.thumb.png.0a9c60c79f03631eeffe6a7b96fc7d3f.png
[EDIT] and this is how it might look if you add the textures to it for a colour blind person

image.thumb.png.96458e5ff52bf70a477bbfdc5baa6e66.png
 

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2 hours ago, hishnash said:

*snip*

Hold cow, stripes made a huge difference, thanks.

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It will be a great improvement for next gen. 


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Posted · Original PosterOP

Updated to include @Tootsie XD's news


Specs: Motherboard: Asus X470-PLUS TUF gaming (Yes I know it's poor but I wasn't informed) RAM: Corsair VENGEANCE® LPX DDR4 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-36 2x8GB

            CPU: Ryzen 7 2700X @ 4.2Ghz          Case: Antec P8     PSU: G.Storm GS850                        Cooler: Antec K240 with two Noctura Industrial PPC 3000 PWM

            Drives: Samsung 970 EVO plus 250GB, Micron 1100 2TB, Seagate ST4000DM000/1F2168 GPU: EVGA RTX 2080 ti Black edition @ 2Ghz

                                                                                                                             

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