4900HSlow - 4900HS laptop has a new competitor

[rcmaehl]

Update from XMG:

 

Summary:

In typical gaming laptop fashion, the 4900HS has already been dethroned by a more powerful laptop, the XMG Apex 15 featuring a full desktop Ryzen 9 3950X.
 

Media:

 

Quotes/Excerpts:

On 3/31/2020 at 11:19 AM, Tom's Hardware said:

German manufacturer Schenker has revealed the company's latest XMG Apex 15. The system aims to be one of the best gaming laptops by offering desktop-type performance in a mobile format. The XMG Apex 15 utilizes AMD's B450 chipset to house the flagship AMD Ryzen 9 3950X desktop CPU. The XMG Apex 15 operates the Ryzen 9 3950X in its Eco-Mode, which forces to chip to stick to a 2.6 GHz base clock and 4.2 GHz boost clock to run within the 65W envelope. [The] laptop features a 15.6-inch IPS panel at 1080p resolution and a 144 Hz refresh rate. To push the high-refresh rate display, the company allows you to choose between the an RTX 2060 or RTX 2070. These aren't the mobile or Max-Q variants either. The laptop comes with two SODIMM DDR4 RAM slots and can hold up to 64GB of memory total.  The machine has two M.2 2280 ports. One utilizes the PCIe 3.0 x4 interface, and the other uses PCIe 2.0 x4. There's also space for a 2.5-inch hard drive or SSD. One USB 2.0 Type-A port, two USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-A ports, one USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C port, one headphone out and one microphone-in jack, one Mini DisplayPort 1.4 output with support for Nvidia G-Sync and one HDMI 2.0 port with HDCP 2.2, a Realtek Gigabit Ethernet port...as well as Wi-Fi 6 and Bluetooth 5 functionality. Other features consist of a backlit keyboard with a numeric keypad that offers 15 different color options, stereo speakers, Microsoft Precision Touchpad with two buttons, integrated microSD card reader, HD webcam that's compatible with Windows Hello and a fingerprint reader. Being the powerhouse that it is, the gaming laptop draws power through a 230W power brick. The base configuration...starts at €1,337 (~$1,470). 

 

My Thoughts:
STOP STOP. THEY'RE ALREADY DEAD. It looks like high-end laptops are getting extremely competitive this year and I am more than happy. Per derbauer's own graphs, the R9 3900X is 44% faster than the 4900HS, it'll be interesting to watch the gaming and professional laptop space the rest of the year and onwards.

[5x5]

I wonder if Intel are currently trying to figure out how to fit a water chiller onto a laptop

[TempestCatto]

My question is, is like the Alienware where you can actually replace the CPU? If so, I see value in this - and good competition.

[SavageNeo]

Thermalthrottling intensifies

[Guest]

Yes it is faster, but I'd say that calling this beast a "laptop" is a little far fetched. Yes, technically it is a laptop but it's way to big and to be comfortable to carry in a backpack and the battery life is most probably awful, and the large power adapter is probably as heavy as a modern thin and light. 

[rcmaehl]

7 minutes ago, Konrad_K said:

Yes it is faster, but I'd say that calling this beast a "laptop" is a little far fetched.

Intel started it

[5x5]

Just now, rcmaehl said:

Intel started it

Actually MSI did. Remember the GT80 Titan - the 10kg laptop with 5kg power adapters?

[Vishera]

They down-clocked the 3950X to 2.6GHz...

 

Edit:

The laptop: 2.6GHz base clock,up to 4.2GHz boost.

Stock 3950X:  3.5GHz base clock,up to 4.7GHz boost.

[rcmaehl]

11 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

I wonder if Intel are currently trying to figure out how to fit a water chiller onto a laptop

 

 

[SkyHound0202]

God I wish Ryzen 9 3900 (non-X) was released to retail. Even better, a lower binned 16-core 65-watt "3950".

 

It make more sense to put a 65-watt chip in a laptop than a 105-watt 16-core monstrosity (or the same chip with hefty downclocking or significant power limit)

[SavageNeo]

For gaming the ryzen 9 3950x has huge amount of cache. I would disable 8 cores and try to get stable all core clock of over 4ghz. If you can do this, this would be a beast for gaming.

[5x5]

1 minute ago, rcmaehl said:

 

But no chiller

Intel marketing would not approve

[DildorTheDecent]

10 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

My question is, is like the Alienware where you can actually replace the CPU? If so, I see value in this - and good competition.

It is. All XMG have done here is take the existing R9 3900 equipped model and replaced it with a 3950X.

[Techstorm970]

I honestly think we should stop calling this style of "laptop" a laptop and start calling it a "portable desktop."  I mean, who really wants to lug that frigging thing around???

 

A laptop is a computer that's small and/or light enough that you can carry it around in a backpack or some other bag without breaking your back or dying of exhaustion.  That's not what this is.

 

A laptop should also should be something that you can use for a few hours to do light work on battery power.  That's also not what this is.

 

XMG, nice portable desktop!   Stop calling it a laptop!

[TechyBen]

16 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

I honestly think we should stop calling this style of "laptop" a laptop and start calling it a "portable desktop."  I mean, who really wants to lug that frigging thing around???

 

A laptop is a computer that's small and/or light enough that you can carry it around in a backpack or some other bag without breaking your back or dying of exhaustion.  That's not what this is.

 

A laptop should also should be something that you can use for a few hours to do light work on battery power.  That's also not what this is.

 

XMG, nice portable desktop!   Stop calling it a laptop!

I had to check one of these out last year, as it was left in the shed and had rusted (not even the case worth salvaging ) 

 

AND it is heavier than it looks.

[Vishera]

4 minutes ago, Techstorm970 said:

I honestly think we should stop calling this style of "laptop" a laptop and start calling it a "portable desktop."  I mean, who really wants to lug that frigging thing around???

 

A laptop is a computer that's small and/or light enough that you can carry it around in a backpack or some other bag without breaking your back or dying of exhaustion.  That's not what this is.

 

A laptop should also should be something that you can use for a few hours to do light work on battery power.  That's also not what this is.

 

XMG, nice portable desktop!   Stop calling it a laptop!

Then you should take a look at laptops from the early 2000s:

[williamcll]

Oh yeah I've posted about the 3900X model back at the time of CES, good to know they are still working on it.

 

Mind you, AMD Desktop CPU on laptops already existed back in Zen+ (and even further maybe, I need a good source)

[Techstorm970]

Just now, Vishera said:

Then you should take a look at laptops from the early 2000s:

That is A LOT smaller than this XMG behemoth, man...

[XMG Support]

Hi, this is the official XMG Support, here to answer all of your questions!

 

11 hours ago, TempestCatto said:

My question is, is like the Alienware where you can actually replace the CPU? If so, I see value in this - and good competition.

 

Yes. We will upload the service manual for CPU upgrades before the end of April. Here are two pictures of XMG APEX 15 from the inside:

 

 

 

   

11 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Actually MSI did. Remember the GT80 Titan - the 10kg laptop with 5kg power adapters?

Remember the P570WM?

  

11 hours ago, SavageNeo said:

Thermalthrottling intensifies

 

Actually no. After 15min of Prime95 (Small FTT's), the R9 3900 is still running at 3.5GHz on all 12 Cores with only ~82°C CCD1 temperature.

 

In Furmark+Prime with R9 3950X, the CPU Temperature rises to only 90°C which is still below throttling point.

 

Or to put this into performance results:

 

 

  

11 hours ago, Vishera said:

They down-clocked the 3950X to 2.6GHz...

 

Edit:

The laptop: 2.6GHz base clock,up to 4.2GHz boost.

Stock 3950X:  3.5GHz base clock,up to 4.7GHz boost.

 

"Base Clock" here means that we are at ~2.66GHz on all cores after 15min in Prime95 on R9 3950X.

 

Taken from the FAQ on Reddit:

 

Q: What do I need to know about the 16-core AMD Ryzen 9 3950X, running at 65W?

A: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X is originally specified as a CPU with a TDP of 105W. Running it at only 65W does indeed limit its performance potential. Thanks to the law of diminishing returns, the loss is not linear: even though you cut the power by about 40%, the multi-threaded performance is only down by about 19% and single-core performance by only 10%.

The 65W TDP-limit is achieved through BIOS settings and cannot be altered.

At 65W, the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X beats the 65W 12-core CPU AMD Ryzen 9 3900 by a margin of about 15% in multi-threaded benchmarks. Single-threaded benchmarks remain at the same level between these two. So if you can afford the premium price and if you want the fastest CPU money can buy in a system of this size, the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X is a very good choice.

This is similar to running the CPU in what most desktop mainboards call “Eco-Mode”.

 

  

10 hours ago, Techstorm970 said:

XMG, nice portable desktop!   Stop calling it a laptop!

 

OK!

 

But a desktop does not have monitor and keyboard attached. Can we call it portable All-in-One? Or maybe a Porttop?

 

  

11 hours ago, SkyHound0202 said:

God I wish Ryzen 9 3900 (non-X) was released to retail. Even better, a lower binned 16-core 65-watt "3950".

I can currently find 18 different e-tail listings for 3900 (non-X) in Germany and Austria.

 

 

If you have any more comments, questions, concerns - please let me know!

 

Cheers,

Tom

[Vishera]

4 hours ago, XMG Support said:

"Base Clock" here means that we are at ~2.66GHz on all cores after 15min in Prime95 on R9 3950X.

 

Taken from the FAQ on Reddit:

 

Q: What do I need to know about the 16-core AMD Ryzen 9 3950X, running at 65W?

A: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X is originally specified as a CPU with a TDP of 105W. Running it at only 65W does indeed limit its performance potential. Thanks to the law of diminishing returns, the loss is not linear: even though you cut the power by about 40%, the multi-threaded performance is only down by about 19% and single-core performance by only 10%.

The 65W TDP-limit is achieved through BIOS settings and cannot be altered.

At 65W, the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X beats the 65W 12-core CPU AMD Ryzen 9 3900 by a margin of about 15% in multi-threaded benchmarks. Single-threaded benchmarks remain at the same level between these two. So if you can afford the premium price and if you want the fastest CPU money can buy in a system of this size, the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X is a very good choice.

This is similar to running the CPU in what most desktop mainboards call “Eco-Mode”.

Using TDP is misleading - Every manufacturer tests TDP differently,and the manipulation of values to get a certain TDP is very common in the industry,for example you can manipulate the ambient temperature to get lower TDP.

Therefore TDP is unreliable to use and rely on,I prefer to use a reliable method like the power consumption of the CPU package.

 

And of course that the 3950X will beat a 3900...

[leadeater]

 

 

1 hour ago, Vishera said:

Using TDP is misleading - Every manufacturer tests TDP differently,and the manipulation of values to get a certain TDP is very common in the industry,for example you can manipulate the ambient temperature to get lower TDP.

Therefore TDP is unreliable to use and rely on,I prefer to use a reliable method like the power consumption of the CPU package.

 

And of course that the 3950X will beat a 3900...

 

 

They don't actually use TDP, it's just the easiest term to use to communicate to customers asking about it, even though it's entirely wrong. PPT, TDC & EDC is what is being limited in the BIOS, similar story on the Intel side. When doing power limits and custom power profiles TDP values aren't being changed or set at all.

 

Slight difference in AMD's case is they don't have boost duration or single core boost.

 

 

[Vishera]

37 minutes ago, leadeater said:

They don't actually use TDP, it's just the easiest term to use to communicate to customers asking about it, even though it's entirely wrong. PPT, TDC & EDC is what is being limited in the BIOS, similar story on the Intel side. When doing power limits and custom power profiles TDP values aren't being changed or set at all.

 

Slight difference in AMD's case is they don't have boost duration or single core boost.

I don't know what exactly they did with the 3950X but the 3900 in their laptops is stock and has a TDP of 65W from AMD,

I think that XMG lowered the base clock and boost clock of the 3950X to lower power consumption and heat output to fit the thermal and power constraints of their cooling solution and power supply/battery - and called it "65W TDP" since it fits under the same power and cooling constraints as the 3900.

 

Edit:

Also the RTX 2070 that runs at 1440 MHz boost is inadequate considering the cost of the machine and the CPU in there,

Those mobile RTX 2070 perform less than a desktop RTX 2060...

And the Max-Q version performs less than my overclocked 1660...

[leadeater]

 

 

9 minutes ago, Vishera said:

I don't know what exactly they did with the 3950X but the 3900 in their laptops is stock and has a TDP of 65W from AMD,

I think that XMG lowered the base clock and boost clock of the 3950X to lower power consumption and heat output to fit the thermal and power constraints of their cooling solution and power supply/battery - and called it "65W TDP" since it fits under the same power and cooling constraints as the 3900.

 

 

Not sure what you mean by the 3900X as being stock, as that is 105W part. Eco Mode is actually an AMD feature in Ryzen 3000.

 

 

 

You kind find reviews that have tested it e.g. https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-3950x-zen-2-review?page=2 (might not be a good review not actually read it).

 

Eco Mode really is just setting the base multipler and the PPT, TDC & EDC it's just a predefined setting that encapsulates those settings, anyone with a Ryzen 3000 system can enable Eco Mode.

 

 

[Vishera]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

 

 

 

 

Not sure what you mean by the 3900X as being stock, as that is 105W part. Eco mode is actually an AMD feature in Ryzen 3000.

 

 

 

You kind find reviews that have tested it e.g. https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-3950x-zen-2-review?page=2 (might not be a good review not actually read it).

 

Eco Mode really is just setting the base multipler and the PPT, TDC & EDC it's just a predefined setting that encapsulates those settings, anyone with a Ryzen 3000 system can enable Eco Mode.

 

 

AMD quietly released the 3900 non X,Look it up

[leadeater]

 

 

1 minute ago, Vishera said:

AMD quietly released the 3900 non X,Look it up

 

 

 

I know, just the OP post mentioned the 3900X, basically missed that was wrong.