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EARN It Act Threatens to End End-to-End Encryption [US]

Shreyas1

Slightly old, but I don't see this anywhere else and I think its pretty important to get out there
 

Bipartisan members of the US Senate ( Blumenthal, Graham, Feinstein, Hawley )  have introduced the EARN IT Act, ( which stands for Eliminating Abusive and Rampant Neglect of Interactive Technology act ) that if passed, would allow the government to force businesses to provide " Lawful access " to encrypted messages. The reasoning behind this is that it would help prevent exploitation of minors ( IMO emotional pandering ), and the government would set up a committee made up of members of the justice department ( who have been very vocal against encryption before ), department of homeland security, federal trade commission, and members appointed by congress that would set up standards for businesses to comply to

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At a Senate hearing in December, Graham and Blumenthal warned tech companies, including Apple and Facebook, that they would introduce legislation on encryption if they couldn't find a compromise.  

 

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The Justice Department has argued for years that end-to-end encryption prevents investigators from gathering evidence that would help police catch online criminals. 

 

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A draft of the bill first published in January doesn't specifically mention encryption or what the established standards would be, but the Justice Department and the DHS have long called for "lawful access" to encrypted messages. 

 

If the businesses do not comply, they lose section 230 protections. Section 230 protections basically allow online platforms to not take responsibility for what is posted on their site, the liability falls on the user. If this is removed, IMO it would basically end sites like YouTube as we know it, as they will be unable to moderate every bit of content on their site. 

 

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To earn Section 230 protections, as the bill suggests, tech companies would have to meet standards established by a new National Commission on Online Child Sexual Exploitation Prevention

IMO this is a clear attempt for the government to place backdoors and such in any program they see fit, under the veil of " protecting children". Due to their track record ( I'm not going to mention anything due to it being unrelated ) I highly doubt they're going to use this to actually catch people who exploit children, but rather just spy on law abiding citizens.

 

source:https://www.cnet.com/news/why-your-privacy-could-be-threatened-by-a-bill-to-protect-children/

 

Edit: Bill - https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3398/text

 

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This is what the Nazis did 80 years ago. They had "lawful access" to open private lettters, which is sort of the same as a encryptet end-to-end message, with the difference being, that your encryption key was basically nothing but trust. And now that we can't even trust the government and companies to handle our information with care, we're supposed to give up the last wall that was protecting our data. Funny...

 

I'd say that I'm lucky to live in Europe and that this doesn't affect me, but bullsh*t like this will sooner or later swim over to our continent.

 

 

 

 

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This needs to die. Ideas and agendas of this sort are disastrous.

Also it violates constitution rights to privacy. (I'll have to take time later to find the specifics as to what Constitutional amendment and court cases that supports this)

 

*edit:

My biggest question is why is it called "Earn It Act" ... maybe because certain party members believe that privacy needs to be earned? (at the risk of sounding political here) /s

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34 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

This needs to die. Ideas and agendas of this sort are disastrous.

Also it violates constitution rights to privacy. (I'll have to take time later to find the specifics as to what Constitutional amendment and court cases that supports this)

 

*edit:

My biggest question is why is it called "Earn It Act" ... maybe because certain party members believe that privacy needs to be earned? (at the risk of sounding political here)

It's an acronym, I forgot to add it to the post 

12 minutes ago, SlimyPython said:

Maybe to make it sound better?

Edit: added - it stands for Eliminating Abusive and Rampant Neglect of Interactive Technology, which really pisses me off on how they worded the title of the bill, seeing as they honestly aren't trying to fix " Rampant Neglect of Interactive Technology "

 

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15 minutes ago, SlimyPython said:

Maybe to make it sound better?

7 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

It's an acronym, I forgot to add it to the post 

I added and /s to my post... I got the acronym part, its very common for that part's members/representatives to play games of this sort.

 

Also you forgot to mention that  Lindsey Graham (R-SC) helped to introduce the bill. He is is in some ways bit of a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing.

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39 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

This is what the Nazis did 80 years ago. They had "lawful access" to open private lettters, which is sort of the same as a encryptet end-to-end message, with the difference being, that your encryption key was basically nothing but trust. And now that we can't even trust the government and companies to handle our information with care, we're supposed to give up the last wall that was protecting our data. Funny...

 

I'd say that I'm lucky to live in Europe and that this doesn't affect me, but bullsh*t like this will sooner or later swim over to our continent.

I think something similar happened in Australia some time ago, unless I'm mistaken. This really is a worldwide issue or at least will be soon

 

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Interesting Snippets:

(Sponsors vs Critics)

Quote

The EARN IT Act's sponsors believe that the bill will push companies to act more aggressively to stop child predators using their platforms, which could include weakening encryption to follow the established guidelines.

 

The bill's critics say providing access to encrypted messages wouldn't necessarily mean more children are protected. It would give investigators more tools to work with, but enforcement is an entirely different concern, experts said.

Quote

The concern with the bill is that if it uproots end-to-end encryption, it could well end up putting children in more danger, as their sensitive information could be stolen and eavesdropped on by malicious attackers. But that message may not get through, given the way the EARN IT Act is being pitched.

 

Out of Context but Relevant Danganronpa:

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DanganronpaOutOfContext.thumb.png.0f0f4ad034fac35f444e33cd44156d28.png

I'm disappointed and disgusted that legislators would use "pitiful children" as an excuse to enact a bill infringing on people's privacy. Also, I'm confused just how weakening end-to-end encryption would protect children from predators on social media.

 

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

Also it violates constitution rights to privacy. (I'll have to take time later to find the specifics as to what Constitutional amendment and court cases that supports this)

Would you be referring to the Bill of Rights, Amendment VI?

Quote

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

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1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

This needs to die. Ideas and agendas of this sort are disastrous.

Also it violates constitution rights to privacy. (I'll have to take time later to find the specifics as to what Constitutional amendment and court cases that supports this)

 

*edit:

My biggest question is why is it called "Earn It Act" ... maybe because certain party members believe that privacy needs to be earned? (at the risk of sounding political here) /s

Because both parties push the idea of "if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide". 

 

This bill had better get shot down. This kind of right/center-right bullshit is what led to us having less freedoms post-9/11. 

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The EARN IT Act's sponsors believe that the bill will push companies to act more aggressively to stop child predators using their platforms, which could include weakening encryption to follow the established guidelines.

 

The bill's critics say providing access to encrypted messages wouldn't necessarily mean more children are protected. It would give investigators more tools to work with, but enforcement is an entirely different concern, experts said.

This is a really stupid argument. I hate hearing it. This is the biggest double edge sword argument that can be brought up and can be equally counter argued, I wish they would stop using it.

10 minutes ago, Eschew said:

Interesting Snippets:

(Sponsors vs Critics)

 

Out of Context but Relevant Danganronpa:

I'm disappointed and disgusted that legislators would use "pitiful children" as an excuse to enact a bill infringing on people's privacy.

 

Disappointed but honestly not surprised.

10 minutes ago, Eschew said:

Would you be referring to the Bill of Rights, Amendment VI?

That is one yes.

I could also say/argue that the 1st amendment applies but honestly it doesn't unless you subscribe to the ruling of the supreme court about free speech and it protections, then it would.

 

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Because both parties push the idea of "if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide". 

 

This bill had better get shot down. This kind of right/center-right bullshit is what led to us having less freedoms post-9/11. 

100% agree. 

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Just now, SansVarnic said:

That is one yes.

I could also say/argue that the 1st amendment applies but honestly it doesn't unless you subscribe to the ruling of the supreme court about free speech and it protections, then it would.

Unfortunately, we've been stopped from trying to call the internet access a right for many years. So long as the internet is not a right, there is no BoR or Constitutional protection for it. 

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9 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Because both parties push the idea of "if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide". 

 

This bill had better get shot down. This kind of right/center-right bullshit is what led to us having less freedoms post-9/11. 

The democrats sponsoring this bill are anything but Right wing. Regardless, this isn't, or at least shouldn't be about left vs right, this is about us trying to keep our freedoms vs the government taking them away

 

6 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

 

Unfortunately, we've been stopped from trying to call the internet access a right for many years. So long as the internet is not a right, there is no BoR or Constitutional protection for it. 

For some reason I doubt they would care even if it was a right that was protected 

 

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1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

 

Unfortunately, we've been stopped from trying to call the internet access a right for many years. So long as the internet is not a right, there is no BoR or Constitutional protection for it. 

Personally I wouldn't argue the internet is a right, its is essentially a perk or privilege to use since it is a product we pay for.

Access to the internet from any source we don't pay for would better suit the definition of privilege I guess.... but you see my point.

 

For what I was saying though, the right to privacy does have a correct application as it is the same as say.... post mail, its private and protected under Federal law [at least in the US] and it doesn't matter how the letter, or data in this case, by method or way it is still a private thing that should be recognized. Privacy is already granted under the Constitution. The Data is created by the user not the carrier. Now I get this is a similar argument made for the Internet Freedom Act made by the FCA a while back but thye did it the wrong way and well this is not that conversation.

 

2 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

The democrats sponsoring this bill are anything but Right wing.

Lets stop here with that before we get pollical .... we can all agree that both left and right have their ..... views.

 

6 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

<snip> this is about us trying to keep our freedoms vs the government taking them away

 

For some reason I doubt they would care even if it was a right that was protected 

agreed.

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5 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

The democrats sponsoring this bill are anything but Right wing. Regardless, this isn't, or at least shouldn't be about left vs right, this is about us trying to keep our freedoms vs the government taking them away

 

For some reason I doubt they would care even if it was a right that was protected 

Blumenthal and Feinstein are about as moderate/centrist as it gets. I don't trust those D's as far as I'd like to throw them. 

 

Could you add the bill to your OP? https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3398/text

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5 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Blumenthal and Feinstein are about as moderate/centrist as it gets. I don't trust those D's as far as I'd like to throw them. 

 

Could you add the bill to your OP? https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3398/text

Added bill to OP

 

I suppose it depends on your perspective of who's left or right, but that's not the point I was trying to make, more that we shouldn't cast this as a left or right issue but a people vs government one.
 

Also, I feel that if we make this into a left vs right issue, we will end up with a group on either side either greatly supporting or against this issue and I feel that making this into a partisan issue is the last thing we want.

 

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There has always been a giant push for this in government.  Big government wants more power, and quite frankly, big government needs to know who to silence in order to protect itself and allow it to remain big government.

 

Let's be honest though.  The government already knows people won't do jack.  Freedom of speech, freedom to bear arms, freedom to assemble, etc…have all been trampled on like a cheap stripper's dress…so has privacy and tracking already with things like license plate readers all over the place to go with cameras and facial recognition.

 

There's also no technical reason to not be able to do this.  Encryption does all kinds of cool things, depending on how you implement and architect it.  People who argue that it can't technically be done are uninformed and don't understand that end to end encryption can have multiple ends.  Even something as simple as FaceTime or Messages can already handle this (multiple people in a call or chat), so really it is just the legislation and that it really shouldn't be there.

 

Lastly…this really won't protect children at all.  Actual child predators are generally either stupid and putting things in public places already, in order to attract or lure kids in, or are more security and privacy focused than me (which isn't an easy task).  The majority of cases are dealt with via metadata anyway, which they already have access to.

 

Bonus: Also, good luck from keeping cryptographic algorithms from being researched or found online.

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42 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

Added bill to OP

 

I suppose it depends on your perspective of who's left or right, but that's not the point I was trying to make, more that we shouldn't cast this as a left or right issue but a people vs government one.
 

Also, I feel that if we make this into a left vs right issue, we will end up with a group on either side either greatly supporting or against this issue and I feel that making this into a partisan issue is the last thing we want.

My only hope is that the R's and D's that are ardent advocates for privacy will speak out against this. I'm willing to guess that they might be shuffling this through while the senate and house members that would argue against would be absent or unable to convene due to coronavirus. 

 

It really makes you wonder why we can't fund M4A which includes psych and substance help, which is proactive, rather than trying a reactive approach. 

 

This also begs the question of why we're tying everyone's hands when criminals won't listen to the laws anyways. 

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1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

Blumenthal and Feinstein are about as moderate/centrist as it gets. I don't trust those D's as far as I'd like to throw them. 

The problem with stuff like this isn't party related, so much as it is a lack of understanding in these areas. There's too many geriatrics in places of power. Yes, older people have experience and from that comes wisdom. But at the same time, also comes with ignorance to new things - such as technologies. At the very least, I wish when it came down to issues like this, a decision could not be made until enough people were educated about what it is, how it works, why it's essential (or not essential), who and what it affects, etc.

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3 hours ago, Senzelian said:

I'd say that I'm lucky to live in Europe and that this doesn't affect me, but bullsh*t like this will sooner or later swim over to our continent.

Actually, your continent started it. GCHQ was founded 40 years before the NSA was. Even older than that, look into the Porthcurno Beach. As soon as there were wires to tap, the British government was wiretapping them.

 

And, believe it or not, GCHQ is an active partner in the western worlds largest "bulk collection" programs. In fact, it was an alliance between the US and the UK, known as the UKUSA Agreement, that really kicked off these kind of programs.

And the UK isn't the only European one, it's just one of the most widely known about. The German BND is well known for being very good at that kind of thing, and I'm sure there are many other European countries doing the same things and I'm just not up to speed on them.

 

Just because your governments aren't as, accidentally transparent... as the United States government sometimes is doesn't mean that they aren't doing all the same stuff, or even that it wasn't their idea in the first place.

ENCRYPTION IS NOT A CRIME

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37 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

The problem with stuff like this isn't party related, so much as it is a lack of understanding in these areas. There's too many geriatrics in places of power. Yes, older people have experience and from that comes wisdom. But at the same time, also comes with ignorance to new things - such as technologies. At the very least, I wish when it came down to issues like this, a decision could not be made until enough people were educated about what it is, how it works, why it's essential (or not essential), who and what it affects, etc.

You can say that about the average person who reads the title of the bill and assumes that it's intention is to protect children, but the people in power that are pushing this definitely know what they're doing 

 

the only real thing we can do at this point is to educate people around us the actual nature of this bill and spread awareness to the average person who probably doesn't even understand what encryption is 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Shreyas1 said:

I think something similar happened in Australia some time ago, unless I'm mistaken. This really is a worldwide issue or at least will be soon

They didn't, they can't request a backdoor or weakening of any security system,  which is why they are still asking for it 3 years later.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Quote

Bipartisan members of the US Senate

So much for California bills to enforce privacy.

The DNC sure is struggling to unite these days.

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Highly unlikely that the Senate is going to be passing any bills anytime soon. Hell, Congress is probably going to be suspended relatively soon since Congresspersons are not going to be able to get to D.C. as airports start to close and flights are canceled. 

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24 minutes ago, williamcll said:

The DNC sure is struggling to unite these days.

So is the GOP, at least with regards to this issue. Don't make this into a partisan issue, it affects all of us, Democrat and Republican 

 

25 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Highly unlikely that the Senate is going to be passing any bills anytime soon. Hell, Congress is probably going to be suspended relatively soon since Congresspersons are not going to be able to get to D.C. as airports start to close and flights are canceled. 

Interestingly, I've seen theories that they're using the current outbreak as a cover to get this passed so that they can get it done quickly without much attention. At any rate, even if this specific bill dies due to COVID-19 or a shutdown, the idea won't, and will keep coming back

 

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3 minutes ago, Shreyas1 said:

nterestingly, I've seen theories that they're using the current outbreak as a cover to get this passed so that they can get it done quickly without much attention

Well there is a Senator from Texas holding up that very bill so they can read all the changes that were made to the bill. Even if the bill gets to be voted on, there is no guarantee it would even pass. I don't think Mitch McConnell could pass a bill stating that gravity exists. 

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