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LTT: 320 terabytes in a normal PC case!! The DIY 4k editing NAS

NickHeavy
By NickHeavy
in LTT Releases
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Posted
On 3/7/2020 at 6:06 PM, Egg-Roll said:

Never crossed your mined that they couldn't justify buying one because it's cheaper to just buy the said equipment for every user you just called them mad for owning because they likely needed to anyways, now did it? Server racks like that should be left for companies that can push out at least the servers initial costs in additional income a month by using said server(in other words the server would bring in it's costs in additional sales every month, not profit but sales), which aren't the people you are calling mad. The $6000 additional costs just to get to 24 cores on the 24 bay server variant would easily buy 1 potentially 2 Epyc computers, which brings it down to what's more useful a worker or 2 that have the power right now as needed w/o waiting or bottlenecks and a server that you could do the way Linus did for far less or your choice? If I was one of those "mad" people I would chose Linus's route, because it's cheaper.

I beg to differ. A typical Supermicro or Tyan GPU heavy workstation runs around $40k, give or take another $10-20 grand depending on your RAM, SSD and CPU selection. Just FIVE of those in a production space can run you an easy $200k, not including the $750-$1500 minimum you would need for a quality UPS on each box, the cost of 5-10 professional monitors for those five people and a quality 10 gigabit switch. The math is easy!!! So spending another $8-10K on an expandable purpose-built rackmount NAS becomes not only a requirement at that point but a no-brainer investment.

 

Keep in mind as well I only mention one use case. Many deployments with storage servers already in place will opt for a JBOD enclosure, especially if they already have the SAS cards necessary to run these boxes.

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Posted
On 3/9/2020 at 1:57 AM, mariushm said:

The cards above are controllers used in dedicated servers, all over the world, they were designed to run 24/7 ...

They're spare parts for servers, new old stock etc

The Gigabyte cards were bundled with Opteron (socket G34) servers and motherboards, the servers were decomissioned because everyone upgraded to more power efficient servers and now they're sold cheap because the controller chip can only do sata2 (3 gbps or ~250 MB/s ) not sata3 (6gbps or ~550MB/s ) ... so that's why those cards are 10$, because most people are willing to pay double (20-30$) for a sata 3 (6gbps) card.

 

The LSI card I linked to is plain boring LSI controller, very common, well known, datacenter card ... good for 24/7 use and all that.

i need SATA3 6GBPS

they parts but suitable 24/7 wont problem right

why LSI Boring what problem

 

how about brand Intel controller

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 3/7/2020 at 12:01 PM, NickHeavy said:

 

Fractal's new Define 7 XL has an enormous capacity for hard drives, so it only makes sense to build and deploy a 4K editing NAS to compliment our recently built 4K editing workstation.

For about $1000(not including the drives) you can build up this system and add up to 20 drives, like Segate's Iron Wolf Pro line. Using Unraid or ProxMox you'll be able to manage your data effectively.

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Linus, you guys forgot to add the direct link for the Fractal Design HDD Tray kit – Type-B (2-pack). The case only comes with 6 HDD trays and I cannot find them anywhere, please share it, thanks!

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

So when you power up this case, how much did the lights dip?

Real question, what is the power situation like when powering up & in general usage with 20 HDD's ??

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Posted

One hdd averages around 6-8 watts... if you reserve 10w per drive, 20 drives will be 200 watts.

 

With 50w for the rest, you're looking at 250w  or 6kWh per day or 180 kWh per month ... at around 0.2$ per kWh in US, that's 36$ a month in electricity.

However, keep in mind that you can configure the drives or operating system to put drives to sleep after let's say 15-30m of inactivity, so you if your nas is not accessed, it will only use less than 1w per drive in sleep mode plus the base power usage of the system.

 

The system will consume a much larger amount right at boot, where each drive fights friction and spins up .. typically a hard drive could consume as much as 20-30 watts for a few seconds as it spins up then it goes to average power consumption. 

There are hba controllers and raid/storage controllers which support staggered spinup which basically means the controller keeps all drives in sleep/standby mode and powers one drive at a time and waits a few seconds between each drive or small groups of drives before starting up other drive or small group of drives, this way reducing the initial burst of power.

 

If your lights are affected, you either have a lousy circuit in your house (bad wires, thin wires) or your lights are on same phase with your outlets (they shouldn't be)

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

Does anyone know where you can buy more of the 3.5 HDD brackets?

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  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
On 4/19/2020 at 3:06 PM, GOW2 said:

Does anyone know where you can buy more of the 3.5 HDD brackets?

So I pretty much went all out and got the same setup and I am also looking for those hhd tray kit type-b brackets. I cant seem to find not one of them in all the stores fractal says they resell for. ( I wonder if China has some lol)

 

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Posted

For the motherboard did you make any changes to the setting after post and prior to running unraid? I'm curious because I want to make sure that my plex/nas server is getting the correct speeds (ram, cpu and such) Right now I got it all built, posted, and still waiting on hhd's to mount to then get unraid setup. I dont want to mess this up. thanks.

 

my rig: Define 7 XL | Ryzen 1600 AF | G. Skill Ripjaws DDR4 3600 16gb kit | Asus ROG Strix B450-F | HP Quadro P2200 | EVGA 850W Plus Gold | 2- WD  Blue 500gb M.2 NVMe
 

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Posted
On 5/4/2020 at 4:37 PM, shadow_evillink said:

So I pretty much went all out and got the same setup and I am also looking for those hhd tray kit type-b brackets. I cant seem to find not one of them in all the stores fractal says they resell for. ( I wonder if China has some lol)

 

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Yep still can't find them i got this case a week ago. Still waiting for other parts to show.

 

I've read that the type a will work if you do some cutting but they are missing the hook at the end.

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Posted
15 hours ago, GOW2 said:

Yep still can't find them i got this case a week ago. Still waiting for other parts to show.

 

I've read that the type a will work if you do some cutting but they are missing the hook at the end.

I ordered 1 type A kit to test it out. I'll post later to let you know how it works out. 

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Posted
On 5/6/2020 at 11:26 AM, shadow_evillink said:

I ordered 1 type A kit to test it out. I'll post later to let you know how it works out. 

Please do.

 

Thanks!

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Posted
On 5/7/2020 at 6:47 PM, GOW2 said:

Please do.

 

Thanks!

Ok so the type A's came in and after removing a little plastic part on them they Do fit but since they are missing the little hook in the left side of them they are a little unstable. I started looking at them a little closer and with the supplied ssd screws that come with the kit I put one in a slot right where the hook would go and it gave it great stability. If you put the screw in then add a hard drive to it the screw shouldn't come off. I uploaded some pics so you can see the difference between the two and the quick fix to make it stable. All in all I think I'll start buying these if the other ones don't come in stock.

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Posted

Thanks for all the pictures!

 

Do you think doing it that way would hold a 3.5 HDD? SSD i would not worry about to much.

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Posted
On 5/9/2020 at 3:08 PM, GOW2 said:

Thanks for all the pictures!

 

Do you think doing it that way would hold a 3.5 HDD? SSD i would not worry about to much.

yes, I dont have my drives yet to test that out but it was just as sturdy as the Type B ones.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted
On 3/8/2020 at 3:56 PM, gopala said:

 

Hi guys,

In the video Linus is using 2 hba cards.

I come across with this LTT video pretty recently. Because I've decided a while ago to build a NAS, I've thought to expand the number of SATA ports on my mother board, to use 2 x PCI-E to SATA3.0 Expansion Card Adapter (PCE8SAT-M01 8-Port PCI-E to SATA3.0 Expansion Card Adapter 6Gps PCI-E16X for Win).

Now my question is: In a NAS, should we use SATA3.0 exapanson cards or HBA cards? Why should is choose one over the other. 

In what way the NAS effectiveness it will change?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

On 3/8/2020 at 3:56 PM, gopala said:

 

KYCMFHD.png

 

Lsi Logic 9201-16i  and small size card different model i think

 

so what model you using help

 

 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, boy2litle said:

Hi guys,

In the video Linus is using 2 hba cards.

I come across with this LTT video pretty recently. Because I've decided a while ago to build a NAS, I've thought to expand the number of SATA ports on my mother board, to use 2 x PCI-E to SATA3.0 Expansion Card Adapter (PCE8SAT-M01 8-Port PCI-E to SATA3.0 Expansion Card Adapter 6Gps PCI-E16X for Win).

Now my question is: In a NAS, should we use SATA3.0 exapanson cards or HBA cards? Why should is choose one over the other. 

In what way the NAS effectiveness it will change?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

You're better off asking in the relevant section of the forum than asking on an ageing thread. I've linked the section below for your convenience;

 

https://linustechtips.com/main/forum/38-storage-devices/

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Please put as much effort into your question as you expect me to put into answering it. 

 

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Posted
24 minutes ago, GOTSpectrum said:

You're better off asking in the relevant section of the forum than asking on an ageing thread. I've linked the section below for your convenience;

 

https://linustechtips.com/main/forum/38-storage-devices/

@GOTSpectrum thanks for your help and understanding.

I'm new in here, and I'm still learning what, where and how things are working in here.

Regards!

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Posted
1 minute ago, boy2litle said:

@GOTSpectrum thanks for your help and understanding.

I'm new in here, and I'm still learning what, where and how things are working in here.

Regards!

No worries, 

 

I'm glad to be of assistance! 

 

Happy folding, 

 

Spec.

My Folding Stats - Join the fight against COVID-19 with FOLDING! - If someone has helped you out on the forum don't forget to give them a reaction to say thank you!

 

The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing. - Socrates
 

Please put as much effort into your question as you expect me to put into answering it. 

 

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  • 1 month later...
Posted

How all 20 HHDs are powered if this PSU only have Max 16 SATA Connectors? And this Case dont have space for two PSUs?

 

 

 

And second questions about LSI HBA cards with 4 SAS to 16 SATA. What is the speed of each SATA connector? Each of these 16 has full speed of SATA III? 

These SAS ports have spped 6.0 Gbit/s or 12.0 Gbit/s? If so:

 

6.0 Gbit/s / 4 = 1.5 Gbit/s

12.0 Gbit/s / 4 = 3.0 Gbit/s

 

So every HDD on SATA connected to this card has speed of 1.5 Gbit/s or 3.0 Gbit/s or 6.0 Gbit/s?

 

 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, LateralusArt said:

How all 20 HHDs are powered if this PSU only have Max 16 SATA Connectors? And this Case dont have space for two PSUs?

Timestamp at 6:24, they grabbed another modular PSU cable they had laying around

21 minutes ago, LateralusArt said:

And second questions about LSI HBA cards with 4 SAS to 16 SATA. What is the speed of each SATA connector? Each of these 16 has full speed of SATA III? 

These SAS ports have spped 6.0 Gbit/s or 12.0 Gbit/s? If so:

6.0 Gbit/s / 4 = 1.5 Gbit/s

12.0 Gbit/s / 4 = 3.0 Gbit/s

 

So every HDD on SATA connected to this card has speed of 1.5 Gbit/s or 3.0 Gbit/s or 6.0 Gbit/s?

Looks like the card can do 4GB/s, over 4 SAS ports;

so 1GB/s per SAS port, going from 1 SAS port to 4 SATA ports,

so 250MB/s per SATA port,

which would be 2Gb/s

 

In theory of course, that i how it would work out I think.

But I am really not sure if that is all correct :P 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, minibois said:

Timestamp at 6:24, they grabbed another modular PSU cable they had laying around

 

 

But this PSU is able to coonect more SATA connectors? After connecting 4 SATA cables (each with 4 SATA) it has still free socket to plug another SATA cable? 

 

It is impossible to use molex adpaters to SATA to power HDD/SSD?

 

Thanks for help!

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Posted
5 minutes ago, LateralusArt said:

But this PSU is able to coonect more SATA connectors? After connecting 4 SATA cables (each with 4 SATA) it has still free socket to plug another SATA cable? 

It is impossible to use molex adpaters to SATA to power HDD/SSD?

Thanks for help!

They might have ended up using certain adapters, as can be seen here:

image.png.b8163f77ff176586b86645ebe65febbb.png

 

Checking the PSU manual, it comes with 20 SATA connectors and 8 molex connectors, because it comes with cables that have 4 SATA or 4 Molex connectors on it.

You can only use up to 5 cables though, so if you need ANY molex connectors, that means the PSU's cables are: 1 cable molex (4x molex), 4 cable sata (16 SATA).

So I'm not sure what cables they used in the end :P

 

Plus, I am not really sure if this is a practical setup; considering Linus had to install a HDD to the fan position.

"We're all in this together, might as well be friends" Tom, Toonami.

 

mini eLiXiVy: my open source 65% mechanical PCB, a build log, PCB anatomy and discussing open source licenses: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1366493-elixivy-a-65-mechanical-keyboard-build-log-pcb-anatomy-and-how-i-open-sourced-this-project/

 

mini_cardboard: a 4% keyboard build log and how keyboards work: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1328547-mini_cardboard-a-4-keyboard-build-log-and-how-keyboards-work/

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  • 1 month later...
Posted

can anyone point out what molex or sata splitter use in video? i got confuse because my power supply only have 4 sata, but i have 6 hard drive? thank you. sorry i just wanted to make my own nas and i kinda new for this stuff. thank you

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  • 5 months later...
Posted

What changes would I need to make to turn this into a plex server? I already have the case and the extra hdd trays. I want to have at least 20 drives in there. Thanks 

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  • 1 year later...
Posted

Hi guys, I'm trying to recreate this build, any idea how i can power this many harddrives?  The psu comes with 4 6pin sata power ports that can give me 3*4=12 sata 12pin power. i heard bad things about using spliters. any safe way to do it? 

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