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Cavscout19D

current tech vs vehicle computer modules

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Posted · Original PosterOP

I've always been fast with learning some of these concepts with computers although i have a few questions and ideas.  Why do we need an expensive "Tech II" device for tuning and diagnosing issues with cars. My 2005 Corvette uses its old ecm module and needs this big overpriced tech II device for tuning and diagnostics and my phone and gaming pc are so capable... cant we just bluetooth adapter link to the obdII and run/ emulate the same programs? The supposed "uncrackable"  remote tuners should be usable too if the values are downloaded.  just a thought thank you

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The thing is, manufacturers don't want you, a normal person, to read some random manual or watch some random YT video on "how to make your car faster!" and easily access to the computer of the vehicle. It could be hard to detect changes in the computer of a vehicle as the cause of an engine failure, even more if you changed your ECU. So, to prevent people with 0 knowledge (or to prevent anyone) to change the vehicle software (which is the manufacturers' property) they make it as hard as possible.

Obviously, almost all ECUs can be changed sooner or later... And, if not, you can get a piggyback to trick your sensors.

But yeah, they could make it more accessible but to prevent people to fuck it up (like bricking phones), and because you could make your engine a ticking bomb, they are forced to make it harder.

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11 hours ago, Cavscout19D said:

I've always been fast with learning some of these concepts with computers although i have a few questions and ideas.  Why do we need an expensive "Tech II" device for tuning and diagnosing issues with cars. My 2005 Corvette uses its old ecm module and needs this big overpriced tech II device for tuning and diagnostics and my phone and gaming pc are so capable... cant we just bluetooth adapter link to the obdII and run/ emulate the same programs? The supposed "uncrackable"  remote tuners should be usable too if the values are downloaded.  just a thought thank you

First: No, you wouldn't want bluetooth in there. You want a wired link with a real time performance so you don't overshoot any adjustments.

 

Second: You can find off-the-shelf OBDII modules. 

 

https://hackaday.com/tag/obd-ii/

 

Third: Vehicle manufacturers have always been anti-consumer in the worst way. Acquiring service manuals for any vehicle either requires:

a) someone to dismantle your model of vehicle and produce a manual (the legal way)

or

b) someone to steal the service manual and post it to the internet (which is where the vast majority of people get them from.)

 

Quite frankly I find it amusing that the motor vehicle industry thinks they prevent the service manuals from leaking. It used to be harder when they were only available in print, so someone would have to sit there and photocopy/scan one. But now they're just PDF files that someone can slip on to a thumbdrive and walk out the door with. Post it on eBay, big money. (I used to take a lot of these down when I worked for eBay as well, but they're generally of the "stolen Haynes manual" more often than stolen Ford/GM manuals.)

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You need to have a friend who will write off the mandatory safety inspection for a case of beer. Same friend will have diagnostic tools for a friendly hello and a Tim Hortons double double.

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Don't even get me started on this!! LoL

 The manufacturers software is way more powerful than what's available to the aftermarket. A manufacturer can't stop the aftermarket from servicing the vehicles but they aren't going to help or make it easy. Especially now that vehicles have multiple boxes that have to see one another. The Dodge Hellcat ecu gave the industry a hard time to crack but eventually it was cracked.

I can see where the it becomes a plug and play for more make and models instead of the high performance models. But with the CAN bus systems and anti theft everything seems to have a brain. AEM, Haltec, Motec and Holley are selling plug and play ecu's for the older cars. 

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I have a 2011 Polaris Ranger 800 sxs that I could really benefit from getting into the factory ecu This year model had issues with breaking wires and excessive heat from being too lean. I have a PowerCommander V Piggy back unit that shows me some information but it doesn't allow me to adjust the actual fuel and timing tables. It's using the AFR to modify the injector pulses to meet my table demands. Which this is like driving a car while blindfolded and bouncing off the guardrails, I'm doing it but it ain't pretty!! 

I have found two companies that offer the hardware and software that will now allow me to do what I want but it's 2020. Polaris has had a "digital wrench" since creation but they aren't about to sell or share it. 

I have been building ATV, SXS and car engines since I was a child. Why would I want to take my SXS to someone else? People wonder why so many love carburetors to this day!

 

MegaSquirt is a externally cheap alternative for someone that has time. You can pretty much make it control anything, you just have to take the time to do it.

https://www.diyautotune.com/shop/megasquirt-kits-components/

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Cars are rapidly approaching a point where normal people will barely be able to service them 


The Daily Driver:
AMD Ryzen 7 3700x  |  EVGA GTX 1080 ti Hybrid  |  32GB Crucial Ballistix Elite DDR4-3600  |  Corsair Air 540 case

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1 hour ago, vukos said:

Cars are rapidly approaching a point where normal people will barely be able to service them 

Which is how they want it so you'll PAY at the dealer.

Did a repair to my little 09 Versa hatchback that was due to a common problem they have about the back hatch not opening, it has one of those little electronic buttons you more or less touch/press lightly and it pops open.... Normally.

One day it just quit working.

There is a module in the passenger door that controls it, get's it power to work from and so on and like many others it went bad one day. The dealer here after letting them take a peek gave us a quote of the fix of over $1100, with at least $700 being just for the replacement module.

Luckily it was just over 10 years old at the time so getting another module from the local autoparts store wasn't a big deal.

 

I did the replacement myself, part was around $150 and only took about 40 minutes, start to finish.

 

They wanted us to leave it with them and would get to it when they could..... You know how that goes. They'll go by the book which probrably says about 2-3 hours labor and we all know that alone will jack a repair bill up.

Since I used to work for a dealer I have to admit there are some jobs/repairs that's actually worth the $$ just to do over the fact you can be in a situation as the tech/mech where it's a royal PITA just to do the job because not everything is just E-Z-P-Z to do.

However in this case you can see how much I saved just doing it myself.

 

If they can make it so you cannot fix or even determine WHAT the problem is that's good for them and they know it. It's also beyond (To me) comical that now it seems EVERYTHING is hooked to a computer module/control of some kind, making fixing them way more complicated than it should be. It's also something the gov is involved with to keep you from tuning/adjusting things due to emission regs in place, making doing most anything yourself a pain or impossible.

 

At one time they even tried to pass a law requiring owners to take the vehicle to the dealer if the vehicle was under 10 years old, effectively making it illegal for you, the owner to do ANYTHING to it if it was under 10 years old and also would have crushed the aftermarket parts industry.

This push is still going on even today (Silently of course) and other things similar to this like Apple making it a pain to do more or less the same with your stuff from them is just another segment of it.

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GM ASE master tech here.... you don't need a tech II... I haven't used mine in years. Buy a MDI or MDI2 and use tech2win with a laptop.  they make china copies of the MDIs that work flawlessly. youtube it to figure out what one to buy but honestly the true blue GM MDI2 wasn't that expensive. A hell of a lot cheaper then that tech II pos was in the 90s. However if your going to be flashing the vehicle with any NON OEM programs, your gonna want to get 3rd part software like EFI live and use a laptop. You have to buy credits for each vehicle in order to flash them but that's the only way around it.im not aware of any software that allows you to use a MDI or tech 2 to flash non OEM software.  If you are just looking to read and delete codes.....then yeah those cheapo Bluetooth ebay adapters work ok,

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