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LaFemmeEnVert

Corporate live broadcast setup

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Posted · Original PosterOP

no question in this post other then wandering if anyone is interested to see how a "professional" live broadcast setup can look...

a media company I collaborate with wanted to improve their event coverage services, on a budget, so i am building a pcakage for them.  they want to be able to live stream video with multiple audio tracks and the package have to be something portable with easy to set up in different locations.  it is almost finished, only missing piece is a audio mixer and hope it will arrive next week.

this setup can input up to 10 camera or video sources (maximum input on the video router is 12 but 2 inputs are reserved for routing video from audio embedder and vision mixer)

stream up to 1080p60

up to 16 individual audio tracks for multiple languages or different purpose like music, ambient, commentary

and distribute to multiple destinations at the same time

 

total cost: just below $20,000.00

 

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13 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

total cost: just below $20,000.00

I want your job


So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

I want your job

hahaha I am not making a big profit from this.  helping out friends.

the most expensive item in that setup is the small dell mini computer that is the video encoder and streaming box.  cost $7000.00. it has linux and above linux a proprietary software that controls encoding and different streaming protocols

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Posted · Original PosterOP
57 minutes ago, The Electroclassic said:

I want to know too. Following.

what do you want to know?

like why this setup instead or is there a way to do a setup of multi channel audio live streaming for cheaper?

 

the answer yes if you are savvy with ffmpeg setting up nginx and obs studio or as alternate you can send out multiple RTMP streams.  one stream for each language.  but the company wants a "box" that can support many different protocols like Apple HLS, SRT, UDP and not just RTMP.   if you stream to youtube or facebook, you need to create one youtube or facebook live event for each language you want to stream.  that means multiple video players.  but if you want to let the audiance see only 1 video player and they can have a button to select the language they want to listen you need a special setup.

 

IBM Watson live streaming has a method for multi language streaming but you need to pay annual enterprise level costs

Livestream studio now owned by Vimeo has a Windows and MacOS encoder software that lets you set up streaming multi language audio if you have access to a streaming engine/server that supports UDP, but you pay at least $10000.00 in annual fees and you only get this in the enterprise level package.

Amazon Media Live package lets you do multi language live streaming, but we tested and it is only easy to set up if you have the Elemental Live encoder appliance.  The appliance costs $9000 for the small model.  they sent us one unit for testing, we found it was complex and only works best with amazon's services.  but if we had to use another streaming engine or server like Wowza or Limelight or Akamai, it was not always easy to configure.

 

we called NewTek, Teradek, and other companies that make software and hardware encoders to demo their encoders.  We didn't get a reply back from Teradek, NewTek said they had one possible solution but they didn't respond when we ask if they can send us a demo.  we got word from a software developer team in russia for their software encoder, they send us the demo and we tested it but it wasn't compatible and reliable with our video camera devices.  the software keep crashing.  with some other software encoders we found many of them unreliable and decided not to build a computer dedicated just for running the software.

 

finally we settled on a company that produces encoder appliances similar to Elemental Live and they sent us the demo unit which we tested for a month.  it was the ideal solution for us that supported all requirements we have

  1. easy to use
  2. reliable
  3. does not require programming or complicated technical configurations
  4. plug and play with all our cameras, video switchers, capture devices
  5. supported the key streaming protocols that are in use
  6. has build in encoder for h264 and h265

 

so now that the encoder appliance was purchased, we build a portable box around it to support the workflow.

 

what you see in the photos;

  1. video monitor to monitor different inputs coming from cameras or pre-recorded video sources
    1. the monitor also has hdmi input to act as computer monitor for loging into the encoder appliance and setting up network configurations and other things
    2. it has two SDI inputs each support up to 16 channels of audio so we can monitor two different video input feeds
  2. above the video monitor we have audio monitor that lets us listen to the audio of the embedded audio in the SDI inputs and we can select which audio channel we are listening so we don't get everything mixed.
  3. below the video monitor is a video router, 12 input 12 output.  this router allow us to have multiple video to be input from multiple sources, some from live cameras and others from playback boxes that have prerecorded video footage
  4. and we can use the video router to send 1 source to many destinations.  so one destination will be the encoder (dell mini pc at the bottom), another to a recording device so we can backup everything we stream, two outputs to the video monitor, and other outputs if at the production location we want to send the video to projectors or tv screens or lets other members of the crew monitor video
  5. in the back of the big rack box, we have the power distribution, the network switch to connect all devices that can be monitored and controlled by a network
  6. we ordered connectors and patch panels from a supplier to build our own patch panels for SDI, XLR and some HDMI so that we do not need to reach inside the box to fiddle with cables and connections
  7. the bottom photo shows the rack box that has the audio embedders and patch panels for audio connection. right now there are 2 audio embedders that will take audio from a audio mixer and embed the audio into the SDI video feed.  each embedder can handle 4 channel balanced analog audio or 8 channel AES/EBU audio.  since a lot of times the audio we get at the locations are balanced analog audio, we use two embedders in daisy chain.  first group embeds audio to channels 1-4, second group embeds audio to channel 5-8.  we daisy chain the 2 embedders with SDI out of embedder 1 going into SDI in of embedder 2.

 

later when we get our audio mixer, we will have another 3U rack case for the mixer.  we need a special type of audio mixer that can add audio delay.  because when combined audio and video exit the embedders, the video is slower than the audio by 5 frames.  this is because the audio arrives directly to the embedders from the source but the video arrives after only going through some processing from the cameras, video router, video switcher, so on.  so we will have an audio mixer to add about 5 frames of delay to the audio before going into the embedders.  this way when the signal exits the embedders, video and audio will be in sync.

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17 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

I want your job

I've done work like this it can be a real pain especially if your coming in to already done work.

 

I helped the engineer who rebuilt this.

85106921_10156814243181471_5151030981913739264_o.thumb.jpg.f934a339878d0239d011261aa0de706b.jpg

 

there is a super bad picture of my schools rack. I got a quick pan shot on my phone which sucks


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

NightHawk 2.0: R7 2700 @4.0ghz, B450m Steel Legends, H105, 2x8gb Gell EVO 3200, XFX RX 580 8GB, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 500gb 850 pro and 5tb Toshiba x300

Skunkworks: R5 3500U, 16gb, 250 intel 750, 500gb Adata XPG 6000 lite, Vega 8. HP probook G455R G6

Condor (MC server): 6600K, z170m plus, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, samsung 750 evo, EVGA BR 450.

Bearcat (F@H box) core 2 duo, 1x4gb EEC DDR2, 250gb WD blue, 9800GTX+, STRIX 660ti, supermicro PSU, dell T3400.

Compute server Rappter(remember to add link) HP DL380G6 2xE5520 24GB ram with 4x146gb 10k drives and 4x300gb 10K drives, running NOTHING can't get anything to work

WIP NAS Spirt Cisco Security Multiservices Platform server e5420 12gb ram, 1x6 1tb raid 6 for plex + Need funding 16+1 2tb raid 6 for mass storage.

PSU Tier List      Motherboard Tier List      How to get PC parts cheap    HP probook 445R G6 review

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

I've done work like this it can be a real pain especially if your coming in to already done work.

 

I helped the engineer who rebuilt this.

85106921_10156814243181471_5151030981913739264_o.thumb.jpg.f934a339878d0239d011261aa0de706b.jpg

 

there is a super bad picture of my schools rack. I got a quick pan shot on my phone which sucks

 

thats a nice setup

 

too bad for the setup I am building it's meant to be compact and portable so that the crew can go to any location like corporate office, conference center, other places and be able to broadcast from there.  othewrwise I would put everything in a tower rack like that and use larger displays.

 

some of my other friends work at big studios with sound stages, the control rooms are like this but bigger and with more equipment.

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9 minutes ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

thats a nice setup

 

too bad for the setup I am building it's meant to be compact and portable so that the crew can go to any location like corporate office, conference center, other places and be able to broadcast from there.  othewrwise I would put everything in a tower rack like that and use larger displays.

 

some of my other friends work at big studios with sound stages, the control rooms are like this but bigger and with more equipment.

its a okay setup in some ways but others it is a pain, most of the gear is from 2010, we did get a new tricaster and some black magic video gear but the cameras should be tossed.

They are JVCs that don't have good colors, horrible iris

I dug around some and found a shot of the sudio with the lights off.

 

What can't be seen is a green screen along with a section of the set designed for walking shots or a demo table.

IMG_0025.thumb.JPG.0a2121cd1663729c410df1744b726ccb.JPG


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

NightHawk 2.0: R7 2700 @4.0ghz, B450m Steel Legends, H105, 2x8gb Gell EVO 3200, XFX RX 580 8GB, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 500gb 850 pro and 5tb Toshiba x300

Skunkworks: R5 3500U, 16gb, 250 intel 750, 500gb Adata XPG 6000 lite, Vega 8. HP probook G455R G6

Condor (MC server): 6600K, z170m plus, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, samsung 750 evo, EVGA BR 450.

Bearcat (F@H box) core 2 duo, 1x4gb EEC DDR2, 250gb WD blue, 9800GTX+, STRIX 660ti, supermicro PSU, dell T3400.

Compute server Rappter(remember to add link) HP DL380G6 2xE5520 24GB ram with 4x146gb 10k drives and 4x300gb 10K drives, running NOTHING can't get anything to work

WIP NAS Spirt Cisco Security Multiservices Platform server e5420 12gb ram, 1x6 1tb raid 6 for plex + Need funding 16+1 2tb raid 6 for mass storage.

PSU Tier List      Motherboard Tier List      How to get PC parts cheap    HP probook 445R G6 review

 

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What digital mixers have you looked at? I belive the QSC touch mix, bheringer Xair line along with most digital mixers include delay on outs as its an important feature for live event mixing.

 

My only other question is why did you go with a video matrix rather than a proper switcher? Is there no need for transitions or lowerthirds in your livestream?

 

I would love too know what software you ended up with as i have a project where multiple audio track streaming would be healpfull.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Thanatopsis said:

What digital mixers have you looked at? I belive the QSC touch mix, bheringer Xair line along with most digital mixers include delay on outs as its an important feature for live event mixing.

 

My only other question is why did you go with a video matrix rather than a proper switcher? Is there no need for transitions or lowerthirds in your livestream?

 

I would love too know what software you ended up with as i have a project where multiple audio track streaming would be healpfull.

you ask two good questions.  the mixer is a behringer x32 rack mount.  we will add delay to audio before arriving at embedder, and it gives us option to delay each individual audio channel or track.
devices and options to delay after embedding are usually more expenive

we have a video switcher, it is not in the photo. but it only has 4 sdi and 2 hdmi input.  so if we want to add more sources we need a new mixer, so we diecided to use a matrix to support the video switcher.  and matrix will also provide routing  outputs to multiple destinations without need to buy or use a video distribution device.

the software is designed by the same company that makes the encoder appliance.  it is a complete package we purchased.

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2 hours ago, LaFemmeEnVert said:

we have a video switcher, it is not in the photo. but it only has 4 sdi and 2 hdmi input.  so if we want to add more sources we need a new mixer, so we diecided to use a matrix to support the video switcher.  and matrix will also provide routing  outputs to multiple destinations without need to buy or use a video distribution device.

I would have assumed you would have Gone with something like an ATEM 4M/E which gives  20 inputs and 6 aux out along with 2 strait program outs and 1 scaled program out. 

 

 

But Newtek is not my favorite after having used and maintained an tricaster XD300  that system was using standard gaming gear for graphics and MoBO and then had a custom capture card but it was packed so tight that to replace the PSU you had to take out half the system and wiggle wires everywhere.  The Airflow was adequate only because of how many holes were in the case not because their was good airflow. Along with all that as you needed to upgrade software to keep it working with YouTube and Facebook it would lose stability because NewTek would release updates to the software and tell you which version of Adobe flash Live encoder you needed to install but because NewTek had custom registry edit it was never quite as stable after you updated the system software.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 hours ago, Thanatopsis said:

I would have assumed you would have Gone with something like an ATEM 4M/E which gives  20 inputs and 6 aux out along with 2 strait program outs and 1 scaled program out. 

 

 

But Newtek is not my favorite after having used and maintained an tricaster XD300  that system was using standard gaming gear for graphics and MoBO and then had a custom capture card but it was packed so tight that to replace the PSU you had to take out half the system and wiggle wires everywhere.  The Airflow was adequate only because of how many holes were in the case not because their was good airflow. Along with all that as you needed to upgrade software to keep it working with YouTube and Facebook it would lose stability because NewTek would release updates to the software and tell you which version of Adobe flash Live encoder you needed to install but because NewTek had custom registry edit it was never quite as stable after you updated the system software.

the 4M/E is out of the budget and we wanted a video matrix.

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On 2/26/2020 at 8:32 AM, Thanatopsis said:

Newtek is not my favorite after having used and maintained an tricaster XD300  that system was using standard gaming gear for graphics and MoBO and then had a custom capture card but it was packed so tight that to replace the PSU you had to take out half the system and wiggle wires everywhere.  The Airflow was adequate only because of how many holes were in the case not because their was good airflow. Along with all that as you needed to upgrade software to keep it working with YouTube and Facebook it would lose stability because NewTek would release updates to the software and tell you which version of Adobe flash Live encoder you needed to install but because NewTek had custom registry edit it was never quite as stable after you updated the system software.

I hate them too. I've worked on a 460 and its stupid. I also had a little time with the mini.

I can't stand their sparks or NDI cameras ether. I don't get why anyone would use them.

 

its just a 14K DRM box. Why the hell are you shipping an i7 on an asrock board with an MSI low profile 1050ti card. with 8gb of ram too.

don't get me started on the dumpster fire that was V3 of the software we went back to the last release of V2 really quick .


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

NightHawk 2.0: R7 2700 @4.0ghz, B450m Steel Legends, H105, 2x8gb Gell EVO 3200, XFX RX 580 8GB, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 500gb 850 pro and 5tb Toshiba x300

Skunkworks: R5 3500U, 16gb, 250 intel 750, 500gb Adata XPG 6000 lite, Vega 8. HP probook G455R G6

Condor (MC server): 6600K, z170m plus, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, samsung 750 evo, EVGA BR 450.

Bearcat (F@H box) core 2 duo, 1x4gb EEC DDR2, 250gb WD blue, 9800GTX+, STRIX 660ti, supermicro PSU, dell T3400.

Compute server Rappter(remember to add link) HP DL380G6 2xE5520 24GB ram with 4x146gb 10k drives and 4x300gb 10K drives, running NOTHING can't get anything to work

WIP NAS Spirt Cisco Security Multiservices Platform server e5420 12gb ram, 1x6 1tb raid 6 for plex + Need funding 16+1 2tb raid 6 for mass storage.

PSU Tier List      Motherboard Tier List      How to get PC parts cheap    HP probook 445R G6 review

 

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On 2/23/2020 at 7:32 AM, LaFemmeEnVert said:

we called NewTek, Teradek, and other companies that make software and hardware encoders to demo their encoders.  We didn't get a reply back from Teradek, NewTek said they had one possible solution but they didn't respond when we ask if they can send us a demo. 

As a person from the industry, I can tell you that in the broadcast market usually people know each other because it is a niche industry. If you are first time customer, my company would also be reluctant to send you a demo unit. Usually when companies which have long history with us make request for demo units, we basically give those units to them immediately. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 hours ago, Niksa said:

As a person from the industry, I can tell you that in the broadcast market usually people know each other because it is a niche industry. If you are first time customer, my company would also be reluctant to send you a demo unit. Usually when companies which have long history with us make request for demo units, we basically give those units to them immediately. 

newtek came back to us after we already made the desicion on what to purchase

teradek never replied to any message but we already have one teradek encoder and trasnmission device and we had friends who were using teradek encoders who let us borrow their unit.  the teradek encoders need the sputnik server or core platform to work and we would need multiple encoders as they cannot embed more than 2 channels of audio in each encoder.

 

the current company was only started a few years ago but we have people who have been working in broadcast and media production for more then 30 years and we used our contacts and suppliers.  Wowza, Amazon, Haivision, Niagara, Marshall, LiveU, Datavideo, Kramer all sent us hardware units to test and companies that made software encoders sent us trail licenses to test.

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