Hanging on for dear life - Windows 7 won't let you shut it down

[mr moose]

7 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Is your router updated? Is your car? Your wifi adapter? Your phone? Your smart watch/bluetooth headphones/mouse/etc? As I bet we could find an exploit on any or all of them you have not patched. But fine, say other people need to stop using their products or buy new ones. "I'm alright Jack" right?

 

Yes that's clearly the best way to excuse intentionally doing something silly by those who should know better.

 

Yes, my router and modem is all up to date.  My car is 20 years old and doesn't connect to the internet so I doubt it can be used as in a botnet.   My phone is a close to updated as it can be.   

 

So I'll say it again, because not only is it true, but its inexcusable if you know better:   running an outdated OS increases the risk of becoming part of bot nets.

 

 

[TechyBen]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Yes that's clearly the best way to excuse intentionally doing something silly by those who should know better.

 

Yes, my router and modem is all up to date.  My car is 20 years old and doesn't connect to the internet so I doubt it can be used as in a botnet.   My phone is a close to updated as it can be.   

 

So I'll say it again, because not only is it true, but its inexcusable if you know better:   running an outdated OS increases the risk of becoming part of bot nets.

 

 

Who supplies your router? I guess your ISP lets you use a third party one then?

They can try to make my pc a botnet if they wish. Quite frankly I'd give them 50/50 over this or Win 10 getting hacked first *that* way.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Who supplies your router? I guess your ISP lets you use a third party one then?

Yes it does,  because the way the NBN is structured everyone gets to BYO modem.

8 hours ago, TechyBen said:

They can try to make my pc a botnet if they wish. Quite frankly I'd give them 50/50 over this or Win 10 getting hacked first *that* way.

And they will,  Botnets are very carefully built and targeted.

[LAwLz]

14 hours ago, mr moose said:

So I'll say it again, because not only is it true, but its inexcusable if you know better:   running an outdated OS increases the risk of becoming part of bot nets.

I don't think "it increases your risk of becoming part of a botnet" is a good argument. It's way too broad and can apply to basically anything.

Using email? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Running Windows over GNU/Linux? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Having your computer connected to the Internet? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Owning and using a computer? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

[Beerzerker]

If it ever happens here and I can't fix it, that's what Linux is for.

[Mooshi]

Imagine still using Windows 7 in 2020

[ADM-Ntek]

2 hours ago, Mooshi said:

Imagine still using Windows 7 in 2020

what do you mean imagine? i still do and have no plan to update anytime soon. 

[piemadd]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:08 PM, rcmaehl said:

aaaaaa the nostalgia is too muchhh!

[Killing-time-itself]

This isnt as bad as the win 10 october update was but that's over now... hopefully.

[TechyBen]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think "it increases your risk of becoming part of a botnet" is a good argument. It's way too broad and can apply to basically anything.

Using email? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Running Windows over GNU/Linux? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Having your computer connected to the Internet? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Owning and using a computer? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Clouds services, ISP modems (There is a massive one recently) and IOT devices (smart speakers/headphones/cctvs etc) are all also connected things that can easily be turned into botnets. So I totally agree there.

 

It's both the users and the manufacturer responsibility. But assuming I take none, and have no mitigations, as a user is offensive.

[redbread123]

you could just hold down the power button...

[Commodus]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think "it increases your risk of becoming part of a botnet" is a good argument. It's way too broad and can apply to basically anything.

Using email? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Running Windows over GNU/Linux? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Having your computer connected to the Internet? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Owning and using a computer? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

What I'd say is that running an outdated OS unnecessarily increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.  Driving a car increases the chances of injuring yourself, but you don't have to worsen your odds by driving a car that's running on balding tires.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, redbread123 said:

you could just hold down the power button...

could you update your computer if you shut it down that way though

[Retro_R]

Person trying to shut off thier computer: Ok, see you tomorrow!

Computer: no, please.

[porina]

 

I got hit by it on a system at work today. A short press of the power button made it shut down gracefully. This is not the long press forced shutdown.

[BigDamn]

22 hours ago, mr moose said:

So I'll say it again, because not only is it true, but its inexcusable if you know better:   running an outdated OS increases the risk of becoming part of bot nets.

Being an idiot increases your risk of becoming part of a botnet. You can safely run Windows XP if you desire, but the second you go to sketchy sites, run unverified code, and/or allow anyone on to your network you'll be at risk. My grandparents on Windows 10 are more dangerous than me on Windows 7. To claim that running Windows 7 is somehow a threat to other users of the internet is a baseless, uneducated accusation. People like you, who apparently feel secure on Windows 10, are the real threat to the internet.

[redbread123]

On 2/10/2020 at 7:39 PM, spartaman64 said:

could you update your computer if you shut it down that way though

yes

 

On 2/10/2020 at 3:11 PM, ADM-Ntek said:

what do you mean imagine? i still do and have no plan to update anytime soon. 

woah, make sure to preserve that relic, it's an important part of the history of the origins of the computer. might sell for millions down the line

[LAwLz]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

What I'd say is that running an outdated OS unnecessarily increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.  Driving a car increases the chances of injuring yourself, but you don't have to worsen your odds by driving a car that's running on balding tires.

Saying that it unnecessarily increases the risk is a better argument, but where do you draw the line?

Like I said, running Windows at all "unnecessarily increases the risk" as well. Windows 10 users are significantly more likely to become part of a botnet than OpenBSD users for example.

[mr moose]

On 2/10/2020 at 12:15 PM, LAwLz said:

I don't think "it increases your risk of becoming part of a botnet" is a good argument. It's way too broad and can apply to basically anything.

It's a legitimate problem of running an unsupported OS, just because you can think of other problems doesn't change this one.

Quote

Using email? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Of course, but you can't avoid using email like you can windows 7

Quote

Running Windows over GNU/Linux? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Bit of a stretch for context and applicability to the issue.  but if you have a reason to do that be careful,  that's still not a reason to unnecessarily run an outdated OS and still doesn't change the fact that it is more likely to become part of a botnet.

 

Quote

Having your computer connected to the Internet? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

Owning and using a computer? Increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet.

 

None of that makes windows 7 less of a risk.   It is a risk and every time someone takes a risk they increase the probability of infection.

 

 

 

On 2/10/2020 at 10:50 PM, LAwLz said:

Saying that it unnecessarily increases the risk is a better argument, but where do you draw the line?

Like I said, running Windows at all "unnecessarily increases the risk" as well. Windows 10 users are significantly more likely to become part of a botnet than OpenBSD users for example.

 

Are you intentionally being dishonest with defining what is necessary and what isn't?  how many people even know about OpenBSD let alone are able to use it as a windows replacement?  Come one!!!!

 

On 2/10/2020 at 8:38 PM, BigDamn said:

Being an idiot increases your risk of becoming part of a botnet. You can safely run Windows XP if you desire, but the second you go to sketchy sites, run unverified code, and/or allow anyone on to your network you'll be at risk. My grandparents on Windows 10 are more dangerous than me on Windows 7. To claim that running Windows 7 is somehow a threat to other users of the internet is a baseless, uneducated accusation. People like you, who apparently feel secure on Windows 10, are the real threat to the internet.

 

Even the most skilled can become victims of botnet.   The fact you think it is uneducated to "KNOW" an outdated OS is a bigger risk, says more about your understanding than mine.

 

Quote

 

More complex botnets can even self-propagate, finding and infecting devices automatically. Such autonomous bots carry out seek-and-infect missions, constantly searching the web for vulnerable internet-connected devices lacking operating system updates or antivirus software.

Botnets are difficult to detect. They use only small amounts of computing power to avoid disrupting normal device functions and alerting the user. More advanced botnets are even designed to update their behavior so as to thwart detection by cybersecurity software. Users are unaware they’re connected device is being controlled by cyber criminals. What’s worse, botnet design continues to evolve, making newer versions harder to find.

 

 

https://www.pandasecurity.com/mediacenter/security/what-is-a-botnet/

 

[Commodus]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Saying that it unnecessarily increases the risk is a better argument, but where do you draw the line?

Like I said, running Windows at all "unnecessarily increases the risk" as well. Windows 10 users are significantly more likely to become part of a botnet than OpenBSD users for example.

I don't think it's too difficult.  Basically, anywhere the risks clearly outweigh the benefits.  Yeah, Windows is more of a risk than other platforms, but you're not about to ditch a common platform or the apps you use on it when you can take reasonable steps to secure it.  But running an outdated version with known exploits for no other reason than stubbornness or fear of change?  Yeah, that's introducing unnecessary risk.

[BigDamn]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

Even the most skilled can become victims of botnet.   The fact you think it is uneducated to "KNOW" an outdated OS is a bigger risk, says more about your understanding than mine.

I didn't claim it wasn't a bigger risk, I claimed that in the right hands it's not a threat to the internet. In the hands of uneducated users any OS can be a threat.

 

Saying the most skilled can become victims doesn't make it so. There's a difference between most skilled, and those who think they're skilled.

[SpikeSpiegel]

Well my Windows 7 Laptop hasn't had that error/hack yet.  However I always keep it online but I did get some Windows 7 updates last night for the Black Wallpaper issue and some kind of new 2020 security update.  Not sure if that security update has that patch fix yet.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, BigDamn said:

I didn't claim it wasn't a bigger risk, I claimed that in the right hands it's not a threat to the internet. In the hands of uneducated users any OS can be a threat.

 

You are trying to argue that a user can mitigate an bot infection.  Hate to break it to you but the people who are working to mitigate becoming part of a bot net are the ones who won't be using windows 7.  

1 hour ago, BigDamn said:

Saying the most skilled can become victims doesn't make it so. There's a difference between most skilled, and those who think they're skilled.

  I'm not saying something to make it true, I am pointing out a truth.  There is a big difference.   I don;t care who you think is skilled or not, but as I said before the skilled who know their shit won't be using 7 without updates.

 

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

On 2/9/2020 at 8:45 AM, givingtnt said:

I.. I have a solution : 

how long have you been waiting to use that one

[LAwLz]

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

It's a legitimate problem of running an unsupported OS, just because you can think of other problems doesn't change this one.

That's not what I said. What I said was that "it increases the risk of becoming part of a botnet" is not a valid argument because it applies to basically everything.

 

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

Of course, but you can't avoid using email like you can windows 7

Using Windows 10 puts me at risk as well, and I'd say avoiding Windows is about as easy as avoiding email.

 

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

Bit of a stretch for context and applicability to the issue.  but if you have a reason to do that be careful,  that's still not a reason to unnecessarily run an outdated OS and still doesn't change the fact that it is more likely to become part of a botnet.

Again, "increases risk of becoming part of a botnet" is extremely broad and applies just as much to running Windows altogether as it does apply to just running Windows 7.

I'd say that move away from Windows altogether brings a bigger protection against botnet infections than moving from Windows 7 to Windows 10. If we are supposedly advocating for security here, then we should not recommend people upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. We should recommend people upgrade from Windows 7 to GNU/Linux or some BSD distro.

 

 

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

None of that makes windows 7 less of a risk.   It is a risk and every time someone takes a risk they increase the probability of infection.

Yes, and running Windows 10 is a risk too.

 

My point is that security is a spectrum and right now you're basically just going "everyone should do exactly as I do because I think that's the sweet spot". Well, a lot of people have drawn the line at other spots in the spectrum and are thinking just like you are.

 

You draw the line at "install Windows 10 because it is more secure than Windows 7" and think that's the sweet spot. Some people would argue that that's still considered a great risk and would draw the line at "install OpenBSD because it is more secure than Windows 10".

 

Do you understand my point? Your entire argument for why people should upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 is based on a rather unfounded idea that they need to increase the security of their computers, but not take it further than you have.

 

 

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

Are you intentionally being dishonest with defining what is necessary and what isn't?  how many people even know about OpenBSD let alone are able to use it as a windows replacement?  Come one!!!!

I genuinely believe that around 70% of people currently on Windows would manage just fine on OpenBSD, since they pretty much only need a web browser.

Most would need help installing it and configuring it on their computers, but the same can be said for Windows 7 -> 10.