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Phill104

Xbox says Sony and Nintendo are no longer their competition

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5 minutes ago, Beerzerker said:

snip

That's why we need to fight to uphold and enhance first sale doctrine and digital ownership for the individual. There's too much power in digital products that does not exist as it does for physical, i.e. Adobe's old rule that you could only download your products 3 times total (it was done away with quickly from what I remember in HS, but the issue remains looming). 


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Part of the problem here is that "gaming" isn't just one thing. It is a complicated mix of very different areas. If MS decide, let's call it "traditional console gaming" is on the way out, that's their choice. If they think cloud is the future, and keep in mind they have Azure, it's their business decision. Only the future will tell us if they made the right decision, or if the Xbox name will be relegated to history like many other MS attempts in other areas.

 

I also wonder if there will be parallels with the music industry if there is a shift from a sale to sub model, although that wont be limited to MS.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
19 minutes ago, porina said:

 

 

I also wonder if there will be parallels with the music industry if there is a shift from a sale to sub model, although that wont be limited to MS.

While Subs are good for many things, I fear there will for a while at least be just too many. We already have IMO too many TV/Film subscription options. At least with music we can get almost everything on one, that will certainly not be the case with gaming. With computer software it is already becoming a burden, add gaming to that and it will push some over the limit.

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besides subscription and backwards compatibility

 

i have wondered if they designed the new xbox closer to laptop with mxm like gpu

doubt it but imagine if was just pop in another gpu later for even better graphics

cpu really doesnt matter as much for 4k so that should be great for yrs

plus they prolly have mixer

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Not a console player by any means. I do understand why some people likes consoles because they're simple stupid and hard to mess up the OS. But I still believe that having a remote server for rendering textures and running games is a terrible idea. The latency involved and also what about the people who have terrible internet. I know a lot of people where I live who would love to trade their DSL for a better service but can't because no better service is offered in their area.

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1 hour ago, porina said:

Part of the problem here is that "gaming" isn't just one thing. It is a complicated mix of very different areas. If MS decide, let's call it "traditional console gaming" is on the way out, that's their choice. If they think cloud is the future, and keep in mind they have Azure, it's their business decision. Only the future will tell us if they made the right decision, or if the Xbox name will be relegated to history like many other MS attempts in other areas.

 

I also wonder if there will be parallels with the music industry if there is a shift from a sale to sub model, although that wont be limited to MS.

The article is about cloud-based aspects of Big Tech in gaming, so the initial post is off-base, at best. Xbox already has a large deal with Sony and they already work with Nintendo on a number of things. Phil (being apparently the only person at MS that gets the fact they have a 800+ million unit install base for Windows) has converted Xbox into a platform that'll keep expanding.  They still have a ways to go to get there, as a full platform, but the next areas (cloud-based feature sets) is where the money is currently going and MS is in a position that no one else actually is.

 

So, for the next field of gaming, MS isn't in competition with Sony or Nintendo, and all of the console makers actually get that. Phil has started to make something of a Console Alliance against the coming storm of the other Big Tech companies.

 

The other thing is that "Cloud-based gaming" isn't just "Game Streaming". There's a lot of hybrid models where a lot more is done remotely without being a full video stream. This is where Mobile Gaming is likely to go. Right now the models for gaming are either "everything local to the device" or "everything done on the Cloud and only a video is sent". There's a hybrid model that looks like a much more refined version of MMO servers that is likely to take hold over time. Basically, it's a lot like Game Streaming but you end up with enough processed locally that you drop down the bandwidth usage, thus opening up the ability to make Cloud-based gaming work. Expect stuff like this especially from Amazon, as they want to sell AWS instances. 

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2 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

It will be the future, but we simply dont have the infrastructure to support the bandwidth needed for even casual games. And ISP's seem to be slow to adopt fiber cables over copper Ethernet. Hell, even getting speeds above 25mb/s in non-city areas has been a struggle in my area. It was only like a year or two ago I got 100mbps, living in a county with an over 200k population. 

also my isp went down 3 times last year it would be really annoying if you cant use your could pc every time that happens and if you have critical work protects or school work then it would be even more than a mild annoyance 

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Hmm how I Interpret this statement is that they are planning on pricing the new Xbox in a completely different bracket above the PS5 and way more expensive than the switch or their next Gen and this is partially how they justify it. 

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22 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Phil (being apparently the only person at MS that gets the fact they have a 800+ million unit install base for Windows) has converted Xbox into a platform that'll keep expanding.

The windows connection was a possible advantage they have, if they can sufficiently blur the lines between console and Windows gaming, and give a unified platform under the Xbox brand. 

 

22 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The other thing is that "Cloud-based gaming" isn't just "Game Streaming". There's a lot of hybrid models where a lot more is done remotely without being a full video stream. This is where Mobile Gaming is likely to go. Right now the models for gaming are either "everything local to the device" or "everything done on the Cloud and only a video is sent". There's a hybrid model that looks like a much more refined version of MMO servers that is likely to take hold over time. Basically, it's a lot like Game Streaming but you end up with enough processed locally that you drop down the bandwidth usage, thus opening up the ability to make Cloud-based gaming work. Expect stuff like this especially from Amazon, as they want to sell AWS instances. 

Right now my timesinks are all online games, FFXIV, WOWS, Azur Lane. Without a net connection, they are nothing. In all these cases, the server is nothing more than keeping tabs of who's doing what, nothing to do with what's displayed locally.

 

I'm struggling to imagine what a hybrid model as hinted at actually looks like. Please do elaborate if possible. At first impression, as soon as you do any significant local processing you lose much of the cloud value, and you have to significantly increase complexity in the process.


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3 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Not to mention there comes the day with most if not all titles you simply can't play it anymore when the server(s) for it shuts down. Yeah - You may lose interest one day in any given game but that would be on your own timetable to lose it, not theirs to just cut you off after having paid and played so much for so long.

 

When you buy a game cartridge or disk(s), you pay once and it's yours forever - With a subscription you have to pay a fee every month too, which can easily over the course of playing a game exceed what it would have sold for is simply bought like they used to be.

I totally agree with you, and you are not wrong. But I hate to break it to you: we are already there. The days of buying game discs and cartridges are long gone.

 

Even games that came out over a decade ago, such as Battlefield 1942, are no longer playable, because the servers, which were run by Gamespy, no longer exist. Sure, you can play singleplayer against bots, but that is not really what the game is about.

 

Same thing with a lot of MMO's and multiplayer games that have shut their doors. Other games might require you to be always online as a DRM function, and once those servers shut down, you cannot play.

 

On the other hand, even single player games these days for PC, you cannot buy a disc for. If you buy a disc copy of most games, it just comes with a Steam or Origin or whatever download code. Everything is already digital only on PC. It is just a matter of time before the same is true on consoles, and I think already over 50% of people buy their games digitally versus on disc, out of convenience.

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I nearly laughed myself off the chair with this one. Wow, I can already see Microsoft failing hard again like how they entered the console market touting "superior hardware" nonsense. 

 

They are in the game business, not streaming service, get that through their heads already

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The article is about cloud-based aspects of Big Tech in gaming, so the initial post is off-base, at best. Xbox already has a large deal with Sony and they already work with Nintendo on a number of things. Phil (being apparently the only person at MS that gets the fact they have a 800+ million unit install base for Windows) has converted Xbox into a platform that'll keep expanding.  They still have a ways to go to get there, as a full platform, but the next areas (cloud-based feature sets) is where the money is currently going and MS is in a position that no one else actually is.

 

So, for the next field of gaming, MS isn't in competition with Sony or Nintendo, and all of the console makers actually get that. Phil has started to make something of a Console Alliance against the coming storm of the other Big Tech companies.

 

The other thing is that "Cloud-based gaming" isn't just "Game Streaming". There's a lot of hybrid models where a lot more is done remotely without being a full video stream. This is where Mobile Gaming is likely to go. Right now the models for gaming are either "everything local to the device" or "everything done on the Cloud and only a video is sent". There's a hybrid model that looks like a much more refined version of MMO servers that is likely to take hold over time. Basically, it's a lot like Game Streaming but you end up with enough processed locally that you drop down the bandwidth usage, thus opening up the ability to make Cloud-based gaming work. Expect stuff like this especially from Amazon, as they want to sell AWS instances. 

While I agree with some of that, I felt my namesake could and should have worded things a little differently.

 

Maybe - “With an estimated 800million plus estimated install base, the Xbox platform has a unique place in the gaming sphere.  Moving forward we will be leveraging the power of out Microsoft Azure platform to further enhance the gaming experience and bring it to an even larger audience. Xbox in collaboration with both Sony and Nintendo will utilise the power of Microsoft Azure Cloud promises to become the go to gaming environment. Our new Xbox console is only the start of the future.”

 

Obviously I am no marketing mogul, but I think you can see where I am coming from. Promote the brand, and include those other brands that will be also using your services. Have gaming experiences on Azure and change your competition into a profit generating alliance as part of that. We all know the money is in services, not hardware. Apple show just that with their revenue model. Microsoft do indeed have a unique opportunity here and I do hope they do now blow it. If they can be part of a big three gaming alliance on Azure it could be great for customers. 

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16 minutes ago, Bcat00 said:

I nearly laughed myself off the chair with this one. Wow, I can already see Microsoft failing hard again like how they entered the console market touting "superior hardware" nonsense. 

 

They are in the game business, not streaming service, get that through their heads already

streaming is the future

hence hulu,netflix,vudu,disney, etc etc

why arent they failing

media streaming seems to be preferred over owning these days

and considering next gen of people they dont care to own things

 

 

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

 

 

 

First off, you are comparing a video streaming service to a game service that can live or die based on the latency of ones connection. 

Try telling that to a gamer that just got shot dead because of a delay in their gunfire, let's see how that will sit with them. I'm pretty sure they will tell you to get lost and stuff that service down your throat for getting them killed.

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9 minutes ago, pas008 said:

streaming is the future

hence hulu,netflix,vudu,disney, etc etc

why arent they failing

media streaming seems to be preferred over owning these days

and considering next gen of people they dont care to own things

 

 

if you get a large library of games with the sub then maybe but otherwise no. theres a reason why those gpu renting services didn't take off and this is a similar thing

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1 hour ago, porina said:

The windows connection was a possible advantage they have, if they can sufficiently blur the lines between console and Windows gaming, and give a unified platform under the Xbox brand. 

 

Right now my timesinks are all online games, FFXIV, WOWS, Azur Lane. Without a net connection, they are nothing. In all these cases, the server is nothing more than keeping tabs of who's doing what, nothing to do with what's displayed locally.

 

I'm struggling to imagine what a hybrid model as hinted at actually looks like. Please do elaborate if possible. At first impression, as soon as you do any significant local processing you lose much of the cloud value, and you have to significantly increase complexity in the process.

The point of the article was the Big Tech's approach, highly focused on "Cloud-based" services. This is really about expanding Mobile Gaming. Yeah, they care a little about Console & PC gaming, a little, but what they care about is what was mentioned in the article: Apple having one of the highest revenues in Gaming without actually being involved. Everything is about find new experiences they can fleece more micro-transaction payments from.

 

For as much of the jokes about MMO servers running on potatoes, a MMO server cluster is pretty staunch, but it's really just a high-speed network access point more than really doing much beyond database tracking. Actually being able to offload significant resources into the server opens up new ways of interacting with "thin clients" like mobile devices. They all want the next Minecraft, but they want the platform for it on Mobile. And, in Amazon's case, they want everyone paying for their web services.

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Benefits of game streaming to developers/publishers...

Kills Piracy

Kills Modding

Kills buyers actually owning a product

Kills the second hand game market

Generates a steady and guaranteed income stream

Means they can sell a cheap dumb box instead of an expensive one

 

Benefits of game streaming to consumers...

Means users with less powerful hardware can still play

 

OFC they're pushing this, its literally everything they've ever wanted rolled in bank notes.


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7 hours ago, leadeater said:

Yea good luck with that, sticking with Sony.

yea good luck sticking with sony, im staying with pc.

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1 hour ago, Bcat00 said:

First off, you are comparing a video streaming service to a game service that can live or die based on the latency of ones connection. 

Try telling that to a gamer that just got shot dead because of a delay in their gunfire, let's see how that will sit with them. I'm pretty sure they will tell you to get lost and stuff that service down your throat for getting them killed.

 

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

if you get a large library of games with the sub then maybe but otherwise no. theres a reason why those gpu renting services didn't take off and this is a similar thing

 

this doesnt necessarily mean you dont need hardware depends on your needs

not everyone games competitively and if they do its all about bare min graphics for those frames

some care more about graphics

some want more games period, also everyone has buyers remorse on more than 1 game which they would gladly trade that 120 bucks in that yr to have more options

 

xbox pc pass(beta) and geforce now(now released)

has shown many people would love to have access to games and also hardware for games but never really own them

not to mention other subscription things that seem to be working like ea and humble

 

yes ofc there will be issues but it is the future

 

they will soon find the happy medium eventually

if its more servers strategically place or what not, its about figuring it out

hence why some things arent available in certain areas and/or with connection requirements

 

 

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2 hours ago, John_Trollinski said:

They don't make video games they make overpriced computers and phones.

1. They offer a very popular gaming service(Apple Arcade).

2. Their keynote is dedicating more and more time to video games every year.

3. They’re poised to buy Sony.


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1 hour ago, leadeater said:

True masters have both ?

True masters choose Nintendo and PC. 


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18 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

True masters choose Nintendo and PC. 

So what if I own a Nintendo pro controller but not the console?

For when I go round to people's places to play Mario Kart so I can crush them

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6 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

Having it as a subscription service rather than one being able to have the game "In Hand" empowers them to do as they please as Steam and others have been doing already.

 

I knew years ago when it all started it was nothing but trouble and knew right away I'd never do that. Folks paying for and then getting banned from a game server for cheating is one thing, getting banned for no apparent reason is another and such seems to happen all the time.

 

Not to mention there comes the day with most if not all titles you simply can't play it anymore when the server(s) for it shuts down. Yeah - You may lose interest one day in any given game but that would be on your own timetable to lose it, not theirs to just cut you off after having paid and played so much for so long.

 

When you buy a game cartridge or disk(s), you pay once and it's yours forever - With a subscription you have to pay a fee every month too, which can easily over the course of playing a game exceed what it would have sold for is simply bought like they used to be.

 

It takes control out of your hands and places it right into theirs.

 

I voted with my wallet and said "No" a very long time ago - Too bad others didn't and well..... Here we are with what we've got.

 

 

What's the point of a physical medium if all studios cant be arsed to release the game in a playable state and requires day one patches as large as the game itself?


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