GN: How AMD Sabotages Itself & Its Partners

[Mira Yurizaki]

53 minutes ago, Rancidpunk said:

I know we aren't allowed to criticize AMD in any way, ever

Nah, go right ahead and criticize them.

 

Anyone who foams at the mouth at this obviously drank too much red Kool-Aid.

[Dabombinable]

9 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

On average they ran quite cool. Were you overclocking it?

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/6025/radeon-hd-7970-ghz-edition-review-catching-up-to-gtx-680/16

Idle temps are 4th best out of tested GPU's at 34C

 

Load temps (Gaming) are in the middle upper range at 81C - that's certainly warm, but for a GPU running full load, that's not crazy at all.

 

Load temps using synthetics are smack dab in the middle at 83C. Comparison to Fermi is 88, 90, and 95C (580, 590, 470 respectively).

I'm not talking about its under-load temps. Those were fantastic after being re-pasted with MX-4 (and the 2x faulty fans swapped with those on my 650ti), just as they were with my GTX 970 (Windforce x3 7970GHz, G1 Gaming GTX 970).

My point is that both noticeably warmed my room, because both managed to pull well over 200W (the 970 was running with an effective 200MHz overclock, GHz at stock).

Both cards stayed below 70^oC under load (though that is in my Xpredator with its phenomenal airflow).

[suicidalfranco]

and here i am waiting for something that might be branded as 5800 or 5900

[Crowbar]

As much as I respect GN, this is just virtue signalling a nothing burger.

 

So some board partners had to run their validation machines a little longer, big deal...

 

At the end of the day the consumer got a higher performance card for the same price. That's a win in my book.

 

For those users that can't figure out how to run an EXE to update the firmware of the card, I consider those a lost cause or more than likely wouldn't care to do so in the first place.

[thechinchinsong]

19 hours ago, JITADIA said:

actually can't they just remove the upper limits of frequency adjustments and call it a day? Not like cards known for large OC headrooms hasn't sold well before.

 

I'm not sure why AMD doesn't just do that. Two possible reasons are that the lower tier cards might not all be able to hit a certain threshold reliably and secondly (more likely imo) is that they don't want to eat into their own higher tier cards.

[Mira Yurizaki]

20 hours ago, JITADIA said:

actually can't they just remove the upper limits of frequency adjustments and call it a day? Not like cards known for large OC headrooms hasn't sold well before.

Practically all GPUs don't have a upper limit of frequency. They'll boost until one of the following is hit:

• A soft cap on the voltage, which is what the GPU won't exceed by default
• A hard cap on the voltage, which is what the GPU won't exceed ever, because going beyond this will damage the GPU
• A cap on power dissipation

AMD simply raised the power dissipation cap on the new vBIOS. However this means that the VRM may have to be re-validated and cooling profiles have to be tweaked to cover for this.

 

If we're talking base clock frequencies, I'd argue raising it is a moot point unless you're trying to keep the GPU at a set frequency.

[Bombastinator]

12 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Practically all GPUs don't have a upper limit of frequency. They'll boost until one of the following is hit:

• A soft cap on the voltage, which is what the GPU won't exceed by default
• A hard cap on the voltage, which is what the GPU won't exceed ever, because going beyond this will damage the GPU
• A cap on power dissipation

AMD simply raised the power dissipation cap on the new vBIOS. However this means that the VRM may have to be re-validated and cooling profiles have to be tweaked to cover for this.

 

If we're talking base clock frequencies, I'd argue raising it is a moot point unless you're trying to keep the GPU at a set frequency.

So they lifted a limit on overclocking beyond what some types of memory (which were apparently put in some cards) can handle.  So basically there’s more than one type of 5600xt and they’re not differentiated by label.

[Blademaster91]

21 hours ago, Crowbar said:

As much as I respect GN, this is just virtue signalling a nothing burger.

 

So some board partners had to run their validation machines a little longer, big deal...

 

At the end of the day the consumer got a higher performance card for the same price. That's a win in my book.

 

For those users that can't figure out how to run an EXE to update the firmware of the card, I consider those a lost cause or more than likely wouldn't care to do so in the first place.

Except most users aren't going to want to or don't know how to run a firmware update on their card, and it's something people shouldn't really have to do on a brand new card.

And even with the update the 5600XT is still limited in software to not compete with the 5700, GN, and others pointing out the issue are simply trying to inform consumers, but I get it we aren't allowed to criticize AMD at all.

[Bombastinator]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Except most users aren't going to want to or don't know how to run a firmware update on their card, and it's something people shouldn't really have to do on a brand new card.

And even with the update the 5600XT is still limited in software to not compete with the 5700, GN, and others pointing out the issue are simply trying to inform consumers, but I get it we aren't allowed to criticize AMD at all.

I’ve seen this “we aren’t allowed to criticize AMD at all” thing repeated several times.  I’ve yet to see evidence of that being the case though it may well mean I just haven’t seen it. 

[thechinchinsong]

5 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Except most users aren't going to want to or don't know how to run a firmware update on their card, and it's something people shouldn't really have to do on a brand new card.

And even with the update the 5600XT is still limited in software to not compete with the 5700, GN, and others pointing out the issue are simply trying to inform consumers, but I get it we aren't allowed to criticize AMD at all.

I mean this whole thread's purpose is to criticize AMD and your comment here is about criticizing AMD so I fail to see your last point. Updating card firmware is a good point though. It's unprofessional of AMD to need to push that kind of change after their product has already shipped.

[Mira Yurizaki]

13 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

I mean this whole thread's purpose is to criticize AMD and your comment here is about criticizing AMD so I fail to see your last point. Updating card firmware is a good point though. It's unprofessional of AMD to need to push that kind of change after their product has already shipped.

Or at least the AIBs need to offer an "upgrade program"

 

People need to remember not everyone is on their level. If they can even install a new graphics card on their own, that's like a freakin life-time achievement to some people.

[Arika]

47 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Or at least the AIBs need to offer an "upgrade program"

even if they do, there's a chance the upgrade could just make the card more unstable since they were made to be validated with 12GB/S which (if i remember correctly) is what the memory modules were rated for, so bumping it up to 14 could just ruin the reliability of the card

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, thechinchinsong said:

I mean this whole thread's purpose is to criticize AMD and your comment here is about criticizing AMD so I fail to see your last point. Updating card firmware is a good point though. It's unprofessional of AMD to need to push that kind of change after their product has already shipped.

I'm just saying I don't see the point of the 5600XT,except for in OEM pre-built machines, not when the RX5700 is very close in pricing and Nvidia lowered the RTX2060 price.

Getting more performance for free is great, but if AMD can't push out an update in time I think the AIB's should be partnering up and push out the update before releasing their cards.

[Derangel]

56 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'm just saying I don't see the point of the 5600XT,except for in OEM pre-built machines, not when the RX5700 is very close in pricing and Nvidia lowered the RTX2060 price.

Getting more performance for free is great, but if AMD can't push out an update in time I think the AIB's should be partnering up and push out the update before releasing their cards.

Exactly how many 2060s can you find at around $300 that aren’t the KO edition? The FE has been on “backorder” since the price drop was announced.

[mr moose]

On 2/1/2020 at 6:10 AM, Bombastinator said:

I’ve seen this “we aren’t allowed to criticize AMD at all” thing repeated several times.  I’ve yet to see evidence of that being the case though it may well mean I just haven’t seen it. 

Of late it's been better, some of the more vocal fanboys have gone quiet and some have been banned.   But it was really bad at one stage, you couldn't even say you personally had a bad experience with their drivers and you would have at least 2 people telling you were doing something wrong because AMD drivers where stable or some shit.   As soon as there was anything even remotely average posted about nvidia we'd get a torrent of the usual childish name calling like Nvidiot and gimpworks. links to obviously biased youtube channels irrelevant ramblings about things that either didn't happen or couldn't be evidenced.

 

A quick dig through old threads from 2013 should show how bad it got.  But who has time for that?

[thechinchinsong]

18 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'm just saying I don't see the point of the 5600XT,except for in OEM pre-built machines, not when the RX5700 is very close in pricing and Nvidia lowered the RTX2060 price.

Getting more performance for free is great, but if AMD can't push out an update in time I think the AIB's should be partnering up and push out the update before releasing their cards.

Great, I don't agree with your first point about it being pointless, but I agree with the other stuff that you said. Saying that you can't criticize AMD (which you did previously) isn't really relevant to this thread though, unlike the other points you have made, which make sense.

[thechinchinsong]

12 hours ago, mr moose said:

Of late it's been better, some of the more vocal fanboys have gone quiet and some have been banned.   But it was really bad at one stage, you couldn't even say you personal had a bad experience with their drivers and you would have at least 2 people telling you were doing something wrong because AMD drivers where stable or some shit.   As soon as there was anything even remotely average posted about nvidia we'd get a torrent of the usual childish name calling like Nvidiot and gimpworks. links to obviously biased youtube channels irrelevant ramblings about things that either didn't happen or couldn't be evidenced.

 

A quick dig through old threads from 2013 should show how bad it got.  But who has time for that?

That makes sense to me, since anybody that was defending AMD CPUs in that time period had to either have some screws loose and/or really wanted to justify their own decisions (graphics are another story, but those are certainly still full of their own issues too). I just don't understand why people are now bringing this "can't criticize AMD" stuff up now, when it has been the least relevant in this past decade. Instead of complaining about how you can't criticize AMD (which any sane person can find plenty of reasons to do so), just spend that time to actually criticize AMD, like what 95% of this thread is doing.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

 I just don't understand why people are now bringing this "can't criticize AMD" stuff up now, when it has been the least relevant in this past decade.

Once bitten twice shy,  I know I am guilty of it every now and then.   

 

EDIT: I suppose the introduction of RTX and pronounced lack of competition from AMD brought a few out of the woodwork over the last year.  Trying to be reasonable about RTX was difficult when several members would argue for pages about it.  And there was one member that wouldn't let a single Intel TDP mention go without adding an entire argument about them lying, and how it's all marketing. It was very difficult to actual discuss real issues like the macbook throttling one with those guys clogging up the thread with what may as well have been outright trolling.

 

So it's something that may take a little while longer to die off.

[thechinchinsong]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Once bitten twice shy,  I know I am guilty of it every now and then.   

 

EDIT: I suppose the introduction of RTX and pronounced lack of competition from AMD brought a few out of the woodwork over the last year.  Trying to be reasonable about RTX was difficult when several members would argue for pages about it.  And there was one member that wouldn't let a single Intel TDP mention go without adding an entire argument about them lying, and how it's all marketing. It was very difficult to actual discuss real issues like the macbook throttling one with those guys clogging up the thread with what may as well have been outright trolling.

 

So it's something that may take a little while longer to die off.

I'm sure there are people that would do the same for Intel and Nvidia as well, but fans of Intel and Nvidia haven't had to so blindly defend anything that either company did, simply because Nvidia and Intel haven't ever been in AMD's position.

[Bombastinator]

44 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

I'm sure there are people that would do the same for Intel and Nvidia as well, but fans of Intel and Nvidia haven't had to so blindly defend anything that either company did, simply because Nvidia and Intel haven't ever been in AMD's position.

Not for a long time anyway.  It’s happened though it was a long time ago.

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Not for a long time anyway.  It’s happened though it was a long time ago.

 

5 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

I'm sure there are people that would do the same for Intel and Nvidia as well, but fans of Intel and Nvidia haven't had to so blindly defend anything that either company did, simply because Nvidia and Intel haven't ever been in AMD's position.

 

I have to admit during the 939 days  I was a bit of an AMD fanboy, I mean who'd put up with a p4 thermonuclear device in their case when they could have the cool performance of a Winchester or Newcastle for a not insignificant saving?

[Mira Yurizaki]

On 2/1/2020 at 1:45 PM, mr moose said:

EDIT: I suppose the introduction of RTX and pronounced lack of competition from AMD brought a few out of the woodwork over the last year.  Trying to be reasonable about RTX was difficult when several members would argue for pages about it. 

While I won't argue the high price (except in cases where people insist no card is being sold for the base MSRP), it's been a struggle trying to get out what I'd argue is basic graphics history to some people. No GPU that was the first to implement a brand new GPU feature was able to use said feature without a large performance hit. And it took years before said GPU feature was more or less mainstream. Or heck, it doesn't have to be a GPU feature, but some other feature. And yet people think the GeForce 20 series should be an exception.

 

On 2/1/2020 at 4:35 PM, thechinchinsong said:

I'm sure there are people that would do the same for Intel and Nvidia as well, but fans of Intel and Nvidia haven't had to so blindly defend anything that either company did, simply because Nvidia and Intel haven't ever been in AMD's position.

They were in that position, but I was too naive (or smart?) back then to visit computer forums so I don't know the bickering that went on back then.

[thechinchinsong]

1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

While I won't argue the high price (except in cases where people insist no card is being sold for the base MSRP), it's been a struggle trying to get out what I'd argue is basic graphics history to some people. No GPU that was the first to implement a brand new GPU feature was able to use said feature without a large performance hit. And it took years before said GPU feature was more or less mainstream. Or heck, it doesn't have to be a GPU feature, but some other feature. And yet people think the GeForce 20 series should be an exception.

 

They were in that position, but I was too naive (or smart?) back then to visit computer forums so I don't know the bickering that went on back then.

When were Intel or Nvidia ever in AMD's position of being drastically smaller than any of their competitors (in mindshare, marketshare, and/or capital)?

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

When were Intel or Nvidia ever in AMD's position of being drastically smaller than any of their competitors (in mindshare, marketshare, and/or capital)?

A very long time ago.  Before windows.

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

When were Intel or Nvidia ever in AMD's position of being drastically smaller than any of their competitors (in mindshare, marketshare, and/or capital)?

Oh, you wanted those specific attributes.