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Derangel

GN: How AMD Sabotages Itself & Its Partners

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Posted · Original PosterOP

 

Gamer's Nexus takes a deeper look into the 5600 XT's messy launch. Talking about why AMD made the decisions they did and the effects it has on AIBs.

 

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AMD's Radeon division keeps sabotaging itself and its partners, and to help illustrate how the VBIOS change does that, we've recapped the manufacturing process.

 

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They really need to step up their GPU game. Bring back the days of the 7970!


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actually can't they just remove the upper limits of frequency adjustments and call it a day? Not like cards known for large OC headrooms hasn't sold well before.


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Again with decent silicon but lackluster support/launch. The Navi is decent overall, but that is more of an exception than a rule in RTG land, which is a shame cause we could all certainly use more competition in the GPU department. Nvidia is still pretty dominate despite the recent Navi launches.

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4 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Not like cards known for large OC headrooms

brings back memories 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

actually can't they just remove the upper limits of frequency adjustments and call it a day? Not like cards known for large OC headrooms hasn't sold well before.

So it doesn't compete with 5700, AMD is trying to get you to upgrade to a 5700.

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3 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

actually can't they just remove the upper limits of frequency adjustments and call it a day? Not like cards known for large OC headrooms hasn't sold well before.

Yea seems weird to just not raise the upper limit of the natural GPU boost curves, must not be possible through drivers alone I guess. I mean with all the hints about how good it can OC that shows the higher clocks were possible without the bios change, must be more to it but didn't turn out well.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Yea seems weird to just not raise the upper limit of the natural GPU boost curves, must not be possible through drivers alone I guess. I mean with all the hints about how good it can OC that shows the higher clocks were possible without the bios change, must be more to it but didn't turn out well.

Boost limits are defined by vBIOS I believe.

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msi explains why not all excited 5600xt can reach 14gbps

https://videocardz.com/newz/msi-explains-why-not-all-radeon-rx-5600-xt-can-get-14-gbps-memory

 

in other news and has quietly release their latest driver that patches up 4 vulnerabilities. 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/263237/amd-quietly-patched-four-major-gpu-security-vulnerabilities-with-radeon-20-1-1-drivers


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8 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

So it doesn't compete with 5700, AMD is trying to get you to upgrade to a 5700.

we're doing powerplay tables to do the same already, so why not make it official? 5600XT does have the cut down memory bus, so any memory intensive game will have it stuck in the mud.

 

8 minutes ago, Derangel said:

Boost limits are defined by vBIOS I believe.

even if this also needs vbios update, it's still better than allowing board partners to change stock performance for all their factory overclocked cards. Not only do the reviewers not need to redo all their testing (instead just adding OC'd results), the board partners don't need to do validation either since manual overclocks are never guaranteed.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Jurrunio said:

we're doing powerplay tables to do the same already, so why not make it official? 5600XT does have the cut down memory bus, so any memory intensive game will have it stuck in the mud.

 

even if this also needs vbios update, it's still better than allowing board partners to change stock performance for all their factory overclocked cards. Not only do the reviewers not need to redo all their testing (instead just adding OC'd results), the board partners don't need to do validation either since manual overclocks are never guaranteed.

It will still need validated. Every change has to be validated. So a new vBIOS would need validated regardless.

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This whole thing makes me kind of glad I’m not in the GPU market right now.   For productivity only the choice is easy though: evga 2060KO.

 

I suspect unscrewing this mess and figuring out which versions of what cards are going to need what or be able to do what is going to take some time. There 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

This whole thing makes me kind of glad I’m not in the GPU market right now.   For productivity only the choice is easy though: evga 2060KO.

 

I suspect unscrewing this mess and figuring out which versions of what cards are going to need what or be able to do what is going to take some time. There 

Shouldn't take too long. As soon as launch models run through the channel everything getting the update will come with it and everything not will be listed with the lower specs on their boxes and etail pages. Within a couple months everything should be sorted out. It just makes the launch/launch window a mess.

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So does this mean they intentionally held back on releasing this vBIOS at launch? I wonder if Nvidia hadn't priced their 2060 down so much if AMD would have bothered with it and left us with a GPU that was not even being properly utilized to its full extent.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
36 minutes ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

So does this mean they intentionally held back on releasing this vBIOS at launch? I wonder if Nvidia hadn't priced their 2060 down so much if AMD would have bothered with it and left us with a GPU that was not even being properly utilized to its full extent.

Nah. The old vBIOS was designed with the base specs in mind. Pre-OC'd cards would likely have been around the updated specs, especially those already using GDRR6 validated at 14Ghz. It would have been up to AIBs to set limits in their own custom vBIOS. AMD panicked and used the fact that a lot of AIBs were already overbuilding their 5600's to push this out. They really should have expected Nvidia to counter by lowering prices.

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3 hours ago, IrshaadH said:

They really need to step up their GPU game. Bring back the days of the 7970!

*minus the heat


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3 hours ago, IrshaadH said:

They really need to step up their GPU game. Bring back the days of the 7970!

I remember they did alright during the R9 290(x) Hawaii cards which were competitive, forced Nvidia to come out with the 780Ti which was cool. Unfortunately the first big boon in mining killed the supply for ordinary folks who just want to game using Radeon cards.

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10 minutes ago, Derangel said:

Nah. The old vBIOS was designed with the base specs in mind. Pre-OC'd cards would likely have been around the updated specs, especially those already using GDRR6 validated at 14Ghz. It would have been up to AIBs to set limits in their own custom vBIOS. AMD panicked and used the fact that a lot of AIBs were already overbuilding their 5600's to push this out. They really should have expected Nvidia to counter by lowering prices.

Just a slight heads up, it is 14 Gb/s per pin, not 14Ghz.

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"Tin, formerly of EVGA"

TiN moved to the US to be closer to his family. We hope to work with him on some projects at our studio now that he's close!

oh nuts o_o hope he's doing well. also can't wait for another series of 2 LN2 people 1 bench! (maybe even zombie-modding 101?)

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While this situation wasn’t ideal it was a knee jerk response to NVIDIA dropping 2060 prices. If they hadn’t rushed out a vBIOS everyone would lose. The card would be dead on arrival and no one would buy it, and consumers would lose because there’s less competition at that tier.

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3 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

While this situation wasn’t ideal it was a knee jerk response to NVIDIA dropping 2060 prices. If they hadn’t rushed out a vBIOS everyone would lose. The card would be dead on arrival and no one would buy it, and consumers would lose because there’s less competition at that tier.

Actually, it barely would have mattered. The main place people buy dGPUs aren't seeing discounts. And the cards would still have all of that headroom for OC, which would be the standard advice for anyone buying them. They'd still have been a chunk faster than the same priced 1660 Ti.

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The AIB partners need to form some sort of alliance to prevent this from happening.   I can think of many industries where a companies profit margin and reputation is made or destroyed at the whim of a supplier.  Let alone the risk of false advertising lawsuits that could follow on from this.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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2 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Actually, it barely would have mattered. The main place people buy dGPUs aren't seeing discounts. And the cards would still have all of that headroom for OC, which would be the standard advice for anyone buying them. They'd still have been a chunk faster than the same priced 1660 Ti.

The headlines still matter, not everyone is an enthusiast and understands what is going nor is capable of overclocking. Most people don’t even look at reviews, but if they did and AMD didn’t release the vBIOS the results would’ve looked poor.

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1 minute ago, schwellmo92 said:

The headlines still matter, not everyone is an enthusiast and understands what is going nor is capable of overclocking. Most people don’t even look at reviews, but if they did and AMD didn’t release the vBIOS the results would’ve looked poor.

Actually, as we've found out with how sticky the dGPU market share is, it really doesn't matter. It only matters if Nvidia is overpriced or not.

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1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Actually, as we've found out with how sticky the dGPU market share is, it really doesn't matter. It only matters if Nvidia is overpriced or not.

It also doesn't matter how bad AMD behave, It only matters how controlling Nvidia are with AIB, false advertising, GPP etc.  I wonder how many people will conveniently forget all about this when they are next shitting on NVIDIA because they have the audacity to release a highly priced GPU that the market is happy to pay for.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

It also doesn't matter how bad AMD behave, It only matters how controlling Nvidia are with AIB, false advertising, GPP etc.  I wonder how many people will conveniently forget all about this when they are next shitting on NVIDIA because they have the audacity to release a highly priced GPU that the market is happy to pay for.

Well, Turing sales point to most of the market not being happy to pay what Nvidia is selling. At least until the Super cards showed up, which seem to be selling pretty well compared to where they were at.

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