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Letgomyleghoe
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ATTENTION: there is a covid 19 F@H event happening, you can find it HERE.

 

this is a good opportunity to help with research!

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Due to the nature of this topic, please keep cool heads and conversation On Topic.

Intentional Derailing, Political Rhetoric, or Arguing will result in removal of comments/replies and warnings issued.

 

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Posting news about what governments in your parts of world do in order to act on this crisis is fine, but will be looked case-by-case. (Updated 03/19/2020)

 

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

I linked to two sufficient sources to explain who mercola is and who tenpenny is and I linked to another article showing the there is a number of Doctors in the US who advocate anti vaccine nonsense.  The fact you actively refuse to acknowledge they exist means in absolute terms that you refuse to accept that you could even be wrong let alone discover that you are wrong.

 

That type of loud ignorance is what gives the US a bad name, lets not even broach the topic of pompous boasting and bragging about shit no one cares about (or dare I say it better educated about).

I doubted their existence? No, I said I've never heard of them. Maybe it's you that has the problem with reading. Don't be such a drama queen when you can't successfully impose your will on someone else, I'm not honor-bound to care about or read anything you specifically have linked to. Combine that with your apparent attitude towards people from where I live, and it's pretty obvious why I'm not going to bother.

 

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4 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The Europeans started it. Just saying. 

Aww Dick waving is fun.  It’s not like they’re good for anything else anymore.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

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On 2/1/2020 at 6:41 AM, atxcyclist said:

I doubted their existence? No, I said I've never heard of them.

 

I have pointed you to them and you refuse to acknowledge that.

Quote

Maybe it's you that has the problem with reading. Don't be such a drama queen when you can't successfully impose your will on someone else, I'm not honor-bound to care about or read anything you specifically have linked to. Combine that with your apparent attitude towards people from where I live, and it's pretty obvious why I'm not going to bother.

 

 

You just keep repeating things that are irrelevant or ad hominum attacks.   I gave you evidence that doctors in your country are spreading antivaccine nonsense and you refuse to accept it, I explained to you that criticizing china when your own country is no better is hypocritical and you simply want to say I can't read.  And that's before we even get into the dick measuring rhetoric that has absolutely zero bearing on the problem.

 

On 2/1/2020 at 6:45 AM, Bombastinator said:

Aww Dick waving is fun.  It’s not like they’re good for anything else anymore.

speak for yourself.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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5 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I have pointed you to them and you refuse to acknowledge that.

 

You just keep repeating things that are irrelevant or ad hominum attacks.   I gave you evidence that doctors in your country are spreading antivaccine nonsense and you refuse to accept it, I explained to you that criticizing china when your own country is no better is hypocritical and you simply want to say I can't read.  And that's before we even get into the dick measuring rhetoric that has absolutely zero bearing on the problem.

 

I said several pages ago that those doctors represent a small portion of doctors here, never that they don't exist or these two people you specifically called out don't exist.

 

And you keep talking down to me and claiming I don't acknowledge things I've acknowledged, which I'm clearly not going to thank you for. Want to be respected? Show respect. You act like I'm inferior to you, and you shouldn't expect me to accept it kindly.

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Just now, atxcyclist said:

 

I said several pages ago that those doctors represent a small portion of doctors here, never that they don't exist or these two people you specifically called out don't exist.

 

And you keep talking down to me, which I'm clearly not going to thank you for.

 

And you keep trying to insinuate that the instigating problems in China are not also that small.   What makes you so sure that there is a huge discrepancy between the number of morons in china and the number of morons in any other country.  What makes you think china is more backwards or dangerous in its approach to public health?  You keep going on about wet markets, but the existence of something means nothing when you can't link it to an effect size.   People dying of measles in the US is directly linked to the anti-vaccine movement,  this outbreak of corona-virus "might" be Linked to a similar sized group of idiots in china, or it might just be something else.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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14 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The Europeans started it. Just saying. 

I didn't go back to see what page it started on, but the attitude doesn't surprise me. The US was a critical ally in WW2, the Europeans needed the power of the American manufacturing assembly line and shipping logistics. The world relies on inventions the US either came up with or had a very important contribution in, like refrigeration, air conditioning, and microwaves.

13 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

 

And my argument is that it's exactly like that in China, most people don't fall for the woo medicine and old wives tales.  

I don't think the medicine is a problem, not if China can put up a hospital in 7 days or less. But you were putting up an idea that the US health system is bad because of a few sites that push fake crap so that must mean most people in the US must advocate for it as well.

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4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

power of the American manufacturing

Hope they never need that again. We killed our manufacturing. I guess the new trade deal with China is really going to screw our manufacturing sector pretty hardcore. 

I just want to sit back and watch the world burn. 

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17 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

 

I don't think the medicine is a problem, not if China can put up a hospital in 7 days or less. But you were putting up an idea that the US health system is bad because of a few sites that push fake crap so that must mean most people in the US must advocate for it as well.

Not my intention.  I was simply pointing out the country as a whole isn't without flaws and that trying to insinuate another country is shit while blatantly ignoring the realities about your own is hypocritical.  I am not throwing shade at china over this because I know full well we have crackpots in Australia causing just as much harm by advocating for things like not vaccinating and recommend people use black salve instead of seeing a doctor.   The world is full of morons, so pointing the finger at china and trying to single them out is the point of my contention.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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52 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

And you keep trying to insinuate that the instigating problems in China are not also that small.   What makes you so sure that there is a huge discrepancy between the number of morons in china and the number of morons in any other country.  What makes you think china is more backwards or dangerous in its approach to public health?  You keep going on about wet markets, but the existence of something means nothing when you can't link it to an effect size.   People dying of measles in the US is directly linked to the anti-vaccine movement,  this outbreak of corona-virus "might" be Linked to a similar sized group of idiots in china, or it might just be something else.

 

Because China created a possible second pandemic in just twenty years, that's why. SARS and this coronavirus have spread from those wet markets, so their existence and/or how they're operated are direct problems. China refuses to change their ways regarding these markets and they'll spawn another likely pandemic in the future because of it.

 

Measles is a worldwide problem and the US is far from the worst offender, but there are vaccinations and the vast majority of the US has gotten them. The Orthodox Jewish community in New York is apparently causing the biggest problem here, so take your grievances about vaccination up with them.

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1 hour ago, mr moose said:

speak for yourself.

I was actually thinking really really generally.  Western countries have negative birth rates.  Basically all of them.

 

that too though I suppose.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

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7 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

 

Because China created a possible second pandemic in just twenty years, that's why. SARS and this coronavirus have spread from those wet markets, so their existence and/or how they're operated are direct problems. China refuses to change their ways regarding these markets and they'll spawn another likely pandemic in the future because of it.

 

Measles is a worldwide problem and the US is far from the worst offender, but there are vaccinations and the vast majority of the US has gotten them. The Orthodox Jewish community in New York is apparently causing the biggest problem here, so take your grievances about vaccination up with them.

And in circles we go.   The next step is to pretend that because you haven't heard of the anti vaccine doctors that they don't exist and are like the boogy man,  then you claim your country saved the world and gave us everything, then you claim I am just someone with an axe to grind all the time ignoring the simple fact that there is no real difference between the minority fuckwits in china who don't cook their meat properly and the fuckwits in the US who sell patients woo science for a buck.

 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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52 minutes ago, mr moose said:

And in circles we go.   The next step is to pretend that because you haven't heard of the anti vaccine doctors that they don't exist and are like the boogy man,  then you claim your country saved the world and gave us everything, then you claim I am just someone with an axe to grind all the time ignoring the simple fact that there is no real difference between the minority fuckwits in china who don't cook their meat properly and the fuckwits in the US who sell patients woo science for a buck.

 

 

 

Seems a bit over done.  There’s hyperbole on both sides perhaps.  America is overweight, under educated, over entitled, and way too impressed with itself, but it’s got its good points.  Used to have more of than it does now of course a lot of them got sold to rich people for peanuts or to other places so the country could hold on to its titles a bit longer.  This whole thing was predicted in the 1970’s.  America would have to slowly deflate or it would collapse.  Regan opted for hollowing out and collapsing like the Ottoman Empire. Gigantic army, selling its assets one by one, doing anything for the continued illusion of strength.  It was grotesquely stupid in my opinion.  It’s also not working.   We saw the biggest “stimulus” in the history of the nation a few years ago and it did nearly nothing.  Everyone was afraid it would overdo it.  Adrenaline doesn’t work if there’s nothing left in the tank.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

 

Because China created a possible second pandemic in just twenty years, that's why. SARS and this coronavirus have spread from those wet markets, so their existence and/or how they're operated are direct problems. China refuses to change their ways regarding these markets and they'll spawn another likely pandemic in the future because of it.

Somewhat correct. It was the ingestion of bats that lead to the coronavirus strain regarding human infection, not the markets. Bats are a well-known reservoir of many viruses, including the SARS coronavirus. Due to their lifestyle and innate susceptibility to viruses, you should always cook your bat properly before ingestion. Viruses do not live very long without a reservoir, so it was ingestion of bats, then human-human transmission. Nothing to do with markets simply eating culture and improper food preparation. Eating bats is probably the grossest thing ever. 

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9 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Seems a bit over done.  There’s hyperbole on both sides perhaps.  America is overweight, under educated, over entitled, and way too impressed with itself, but it’s got its good points.  Used to have more of than it does now of course a lot of them got sold to rich people for peanuts or to other places so the country could hold on to its titles a bit longer.  This whole thing was predicted in the 1970’s.  America would have to slowly deflate or it would collapse.  Regan opted for hollowing out and collapsing like the Ottoman Empire. Gigantic army, selling its assets one by one, doing anything for the continued illusion of strength.  It was grotesquely stupid in my opinion.  It’s also not working.   We saw the biggest “stimulus” in the history of the nation a few years ago and it did nearly nothing.  Everyone was afraid it would overdo it.  Adrenaline doesn’t work if there’s nothing left in the tank.

 

I don't really care that much to debate the state of America, to me most perceptions of  another country are tainted through a cultural lens.  The reality is that somethings are objective and somethings are subjective.  We all know the woo is in every country, that is not subjective.  There are people selling detox diets/products, organic foods and non GMO products all over the world.  That is as big of a scam ( which can be a dangerous thing if a naturapath diagnosis a toxin problem and thinks a detox is going to help when you actually have a failing liver) as any of the dangerous woo in china.   My problem is when people ignore the fact that all countries are riddled with it and literally start pontificating how good their countries while lambasting china for what is ostensibly  a similar problem.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

And in circles we go.   The next step is to pretend that because you haven't heard of the anti vaccine doctors that they don't exist and are like the boogy man,  then you claim your country saved the world and gave us everything, then you claim I am just someone with an axe to grind all the time ignoring the simple fact that there is no real difference between the minority fuckwits in china who don't cook their meat properly and the fuckwits in the US who sell patients woo science for a buck.

 

 

 

I never claimed that dude, that's in your mind. I said an American guy that I've never heard of but you have such strong opinions about, must have been elevated in importance and made out as a boogeyman by your media, that's not a denial of their existence. I never claimed there were not a few anti-vax doctors either, only that they make up an extremely small percentage of doctors here. I don't know who the prominent daytime drama actor in Australia is, but that doesn't mean I deny the existence of that person and daytime drama programming, do you understand that analogy? 

 

My country did turn the tide at the end of WWII, you're welcome. And we did invent a bunch of stuff that you gladly use every day, so you're welcome again. 

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1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

I never claimed that dude, that's in your mind. I said an American guy that I've never heard of but you have such strong opinions about, must have been elevated in importance and made out as a boogeyman by your media, that's not a denial of their existence. I never claimed there were not a few anti-vax doctors either, only that they make up an extremely small percentage of doctors here. I don't know who the prominent daytime drama actor in Australia is, but that doesn't mean I deny the existence of that person and daytime drama programming, do you understand that analogy? 

the thread is here for all to read. 

 

1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

My country did turn the tide at the end of WWII, you're welcome. And we did invent a bunch of stuff that you gladly use every day, so you're welcome again. 

So what?  I really don't care, The Scottish invented shit you use every day, the Chinese invented shit you use every day.  Australians invented shit you use every day.  No one cares.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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9 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I never claimed that dude, that's in your mind. I said an American guy that I've never heard of but you have such strong opinions about, must have been elevated in importance and made out as a boogeyman by your media, that's not a denial of their existence. I never claimed there were not a few anti-vax doctors either, only that they make up an extremely small percentage of doctors here. I don't know who the prominent daytime drama actor in Australia is, but that doesn't mean I deny the existence of that person and daytime drama programming, do you understand that analogy? 

 

My country did turn the tide at the end of WWII, you're welcome. And we did invent a bunch of stuff that you gladly use every day, so you're welcome again. 

Repeating already failed arguments doesn’t help.  Lots of countries have been dominant at one time or another.  Britain had its empire, France had its.  I personally am quite worried that America is going to refuse to fade gracefully, and there’s only ever one thing that happens to countries who try that.  They fall and they do it hard.  I’m even afraid the time to start doing that may be past.  That’s my thing though and it doesn’t have a lot to do with the topic.  The topic is not the United States, or Europe, or Australia. 

 

 @mr moose’s best point I think is that no matter what state a given country’s people thinks it is in, belittling the state of another is not productive.  Everyone has their issues.  

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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23 minutes ago, mr moose said:

the thread is here for all to read. 

 

So what?  I really don't care, The Scottish invented shit you use every day, the Chinese invented shit you use every day.  Australians invented shit you use every day.  No one cares.

 

 

My point was, you guys get a real kick out of calling Americans loud, hypocritical, or whatever, until we need to step in during a world war or produce something significant for you to use. Absolutely zero respect, and even your edit apology in that Twitter post is junk, "But you get the implication." What implication? That Americans are all part of this group, even though it's a tiny fraction of our population? You do color all Americans with one brush, even if you don't want to admit it, you have underlying bigotry toward us. It's either that or you dislike someone that would dare reject your thoughts on anything, because you believe you're infallible.

 

And yeah, you clearly do care since you've been responding for multiple pages.

 

 

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1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

 

 

My point was, you guys get a real kick out of calling Americans loud, hypocritical, or whatever, until we need to step in during a world war or produce something significant for you to use. Absolutely zero respect, and even your edit apology in that Twitter post is junk, "But you get the implication." What implication? That Americans are all part of this group, even though it's a tiny fraction of our population? You do color all Americans with one brush, even if you don't want to admit it, you have underlying bigotry toward us.

 

And yeah, you clearly do care since you've been responding for multiple pages.

 

 

Your point adds nothing to the act of unfairly criticizing another country/culture.   You are still beating your chest as if it changes things.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, atxcyclist said:

 

 

My point was, you guys get a real kick out of calling Americans loud, hypocritical, or whatever, until we need to step in during a world war or produce something significant for you to use. Absolutely zero respect, and even your edit apology in that Twitter post is junk, "But you get the implication." What implication? That Americans are all part of this group, even though it's a tiny fraction of our population? You do color all Americans with one brush, even if you don't want to admit it, you have underlying bigotry toward us.

 

And yeah, you clearly do care since you've been responding for multiple pages.

 

 

I actually am an American.  I just don’t think pretending does any good.  The French are famous for making these exact same sorts of noises and are made fun of for it for the exact same reasons.  The American thing is irrelevant.   The original issue was inaccurately badmouthing the Chinese response to the epidemic situation.  I think the epidemic situation is not a nationalist issue.  It’s a world issue.  These things are becoming more prevelant.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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2 hours ago, mr moose said:

Not my intention.  I was simply pointing out the country as a whole isn't without flaws and that trying to insinuate another country is shit while blatantly ignoring the realities about your own is hypocritical.  I am not throwing shade at china over this because I know full well we have crackpots in Australia causing just as much harm by advocating for things like not vaccinating and recommend people use black salve instead of seeing a doctor.   The world is full of morons, so pointing the finger at china and trying to single them out is the point of my contention.

Well I apologize to be blaming you,and I agree with you there, every country has its problems. I won't go pointing at what China is doing wrong while the US has a lot wrong with its healthcare system, I don't know what the healthcare is like in China either. Although there is mention of eating stuff like bats, sounds gross and maybe they need to regulate that more if it could be causing people to get ill.

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6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Well I apologize to be blaming you,and I agree with you there, every country has its problems. I won't go pointing at what China is doing wrong while the US has a lot wrong with its healthcare system, I don't know what the healthcare is like in China either. Although there is mention of eating stuff like bats, sounds gross and maybe they need to regulate that more if it could be causing people to get ill.

My memory is there was and they did.  I would not be surprised if we see even more of it in the future.  It’s water under the bridge though.  The swine flu came from domestic pigs.   Mad cow was domestic cows.  Bird flu was domestic chickens.  None of the diseases are new.  What is new is mobility.   It used to be it took two days to reach another town.  Now it takes half that long to reach another continent.  We’re all neighbors now.

im very close to the exact center of North America.  @mr moose is in fricking Australia, and we’re having what amounts to a back of the fence conversation not really any different from one I had with my next door neighbor earlier today.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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11 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Well I apologize to be blaming you,and I agree with you there, every country has its problems. I won't go pointing at what China is doing wrong while the US has a lot wrong with its healthcare system, I don't know what the healthcare is like in China either. Although there is mention of eating stuff like bats, sounds gross and maybe they need to regulate that more if it could be causing people to get ill.

 

I wanted to weave an ozzy osbourne joke in there.    I couldn't think of one...

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

I wanted weave an ozzy osbourne joke in there.    I couldn't think of one...

For what it’s worth he has repetitively claimed it wasn’t actually a real bat.  Personally I tend to believe it.  The man is still british.  He would have boiled it first.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

For what it’s worth he has repetitively claimed it wasn’t actually a real bat.  Personally I tend to believe it.  The man is still british.  He would have boiled it first.

I saw an interview were he said he thought it was fake and that's why he bit into it.   Sharon said they had to take him to the hospital for shots.   Either way I think the story is worth it's weight in gold, if it was real he's lucky he didn't end up really sick and if it was fake he's got plenty of miles out of it. 

 

And yes, boiled with pheasant eggs and spotted dick for dessert. 

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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