corona virus

[PhantomJaguarr]

My workplace now has informative fliers about the virus that the public and employees can take and read over. Also my county has a dedicated section on our website to help shed further insight.

 

https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/coronavirus/

 

It’s so integrated in part of our lives at this point.

[WkdPaul]

2 minutes ago, PhantomJaguar77 said:

 

https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/coronavirus/

 

 

Quote

Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://www.sandiegocounty.gov/coronavirus/" on this server.

 

[NumLock21]

White paper on the coronavirus and actual photos of the virus itself extracted from a patient.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.02.972927v1.full.pdf

[FakeCIA]

1 hour ago, wkdpaul said:

 

 

 

Just use a VPN connected to United States, sometimes that happens with county websites.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Yep, saw it. Depressing. Not as depressing as the visit to CDC I just watched.

But in many ways VERY enlightening...

An american, in the UK, having a very clear sighted view of the situation in the US...

 

I think one thing is very clear, and I've read it several times, but strangely I've never seen it repeated or written about it: Covid-19 moves more and more to become endemic. Meaning it will stay with us, we'll need to learn to live with it.

 

Another thing that, I know it will be controversial, but everyone puts their eggs in the vaccine basket.

I'm not saying that a vaccine is a bad thing, on the contrary...

But the tendency I see becoming the norm is to fight everything with a vaccine.

The same thing happened with antibiotics. And I don't want to hear the "But it's not the same thing!!" It is exactly the same thing.

We overused antibiotics, and now we have bacterias and viruses antibioresistant. And we don't have new antibiotics...

 

Now we are doing the same thing with vaccines. And no I'm not an anti-vax ( I can see the remark coming from the other side of the known world   ).

I will stop this subject here as it is not the purpose of this thread.

[WkdPaul]

4 minutes ago, FakeCIA said:

Just use a VPN connected to United States, sometimes that happens with county websites.

Who TF geolocks a government website???

[Guest]

Just now, wkdpaul said:

Who TF geolocks a government website???

< APPARTE MODE ON >

An incompetent webdevelopper?

< APPARTE MODE OFF >

[Mister Woof]

9 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

But in many ways VERY enlightening...

An american, in the UK, having a very clear sighted view of the situation in the US...

 

I think one thing is very clear, and I've read it several times, but strangely I've never seen it repeated or written about it: Covid-19 moves more and more to become endemic. Meaning it will stay with us, we'll need to learn to live with it.

 

Another thing that, I know it will be controversial, but everyone puts their eggs in the vaccine basket.

I'm not saying that a vaccine is a bad thing, on the contrary...

But the tendency I see becoming the norm is to fight everything with a vaccine.

The same thing happened with antibiotics. And I don't want to hear the "But it's not the same thing!!" It is exactly the same thing.

We overused antibiotics, and now we have bacterias and viruses antibioresistant. And we don't have new antibiotics...

 

Now we are doing the same thing with vaccines. And no I'm not an anti-vax ( I can see the remark coming from the other side of the known world   ).

I will stop this subject here as it is not the purpose of this thread.

Vaccine is a preventative measure and will probably need to be updated annually like flu vaccine.

 

After a few generations, we'll probably develop better natural immunity.

 

Antivirals are probably the only meaningful hope in the immediate future.

[FakeCIA]

5 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Who TF geolocks a government website???

For city and county websites, they are sometimes geolocked. For state and federal sites, they are not. For example, you may not be able to access the website for the Washington D.C. Police Department, but you may be able to access the website for Secret Service because they are federal law enforcement.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Vaccine is a preventative measure and will probably need to be updated annually like flu vaccine.

 

After a few generations, we'll probably develop better natural immunity.

 

Antivirals are probably the only meaningful hope in the immediate future.

That's the thing! We won't...

But as I said I won't talk about that here as it's not the thread for it and it's way too controversial.

[Mister Woof]

6 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

That's the thing! We won't...

But as I said I won't talk about that here as it's not the thread for it and it's way too controversial.

Why is that? I am not a virus expert. But we are generally adapted with other human coronaviruses over some period of time (via propagation), and eventually through survival of those who are immune, don't we generally bolster defenses against these types of diseases?

 

If it's too controversial to openly discuss, feel free to PM me. I'm curious to be educated.

[Deli]

50 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Even in the US, if things were that bad, we have martial law.

 

If it was that bad, it would be declared.

 

But it isn't, so it won't. Imo the response has been, "just deal with it"

We are dealing with something as contagious as flu, but 10 -20 times more deadly. CDC estimates the 2019-2020 flu season kills 20,000 people in the US. If COVID-19 gains a foothold like flu. There will be 200,000 - 400,000 death.

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, Deli said:

We are dealing with something as contagious as flu, but 10 -20 times more deadly. CDC estimates the 2019-2020 flu season kills 20,000 people in the US. If COVID-19 gains a foothold like flu. There will be 200,000 - 400,000 death.

I'm not arguing that it's bad. But it's not bad enough in the eyes of our leaders for them to care enough.

[PurplDrank]

8 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Why is that? I am not a virus expert. But we are generally adapted with other human coronaviruses over some period of time (via propagation), and eventually through survival of those who are immune, don't we generally bolster defenses against these types of diseases?

 

If it's too controversial to openly discuss, feel free to PM me. I'm curious to be educated.

The Corona virus is a respiratory virus. Much like other viruses it can mutate. We can and might develop some sort of naturally immunity to it or might need to develop a vaccine to bolster defenses. Everything will be okay in the end...hopefully.

 

Now as far as i know This is also Chinas 2nd disease coming out of its country. The first being the bird flu. They need to do something over there to contain these viruses and diseases. 

 

Also this is a corona virus discussion. Meaning the corona virus can and should be openly discuessed. As long as its related to corona virus it should be discussed. 

[Andreas Lilja]

So how much does the U.S. spends in defense against disease out of the 748 billions?

 

 

[Mister Woof]

4 minutes ago, PurplDrank said:

The Corona virus is a respiratory virus. Much like other viruses it can mutate. We can and might develop some sort of naturally immunity to it or might need to develop a vaccine to bolster defenses. Everything will be okay in the end...hopefully.

 

Now as far as i know This is also Chinas 2nd disease coming out of its country. The first being the bird flu. They need to do something over there to contain these viruses and diseases. 

 

Also this is a corona virus discussion. Meaning the corona virus can and should be openly discuessed. As long as its related to corona virus it should be discussed. 

This is pretty much what I was saying. Just trying to understand why it would not go that way as the other person said.

 

It might take 10 generations and many many deaths, but you would think humanity would eventually come to some adaptation to coronaviruses as we have for flu.

 

Of course mutations and new zootonic strains will always be on the horizon.

[PurplDrank]

42 minutes ago, Andreas Lilja said:

So how much does the U.S. spends in defense against disease out of the 748 billions?

 

 

well they just signed a bill for 8.3 billion in corona funding? add that to the ebola,SARS, AIDS/HIV, bird flu spending the United States has put towards research and treatments. 

[RonnieOP]

On 3/5/2020 at 2:21 AM, Deli said:

Pardon my ignorance, how unsafe is tap water in the US?

Its safe.

 

Even if they dont drink it at home they are drinking it anytime they eat/drink anything outside of home.

 

Also a lot of bottle water sold in stores is literally tap water put in a bottle.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Mister Woof said:

This is pretty much what I was saying. Just trying to understand why it would not go that way as the other person said.

 

It might take 10 generations and many many deaths, but you would think humanity would eventually come to some adaptation to coronaviruses as we have for flu.

 

Of course mutations and new zootonic strains will always be on the horizon.

The problem is now, even if over generations immunity builds (which is unlikely, explain later) we have to care about the now. Why we care about these particular outbreaks is that it is not a typical mutation of a seasonal virus that generally stays localized to the region of mutation i.e. Seasonal Influenza. Influenza world wide causes around 300,000-600,000 deaths per year and are mostly respiratory related, you need oxygen entering your system to live and without that you will die.

 

This is why even H1N1/09 "Swine Flu" was a global concern, even with a mortality rate lower than seasonal influenza. It was a mutation of a virus that was spreading globally not regionally and no single region was exhibiting any resistance to the virus. Even with all the global commerce and travel we have now and at the time the preventative measures taken kept the global infection rate to around 11%-21%. Typical flu season is between 5%-15% but as alluded to each region actually have there own mutations of influenza and global spread of any particular strain is rare, this is also due to influenza vaccines designed choices on which strains to cover and those choices are also regional.

 

Looking at mortality rates doesn't give a proper picture of the issue. There are other important factors that need consideration like how is the virus spreading (localized vs globally), the infection rate (how quickly), required treatment and finally mortality rates with considerations for demographics.

 

So we have established we are dealing with a virus that is being or has the capability to be contracted globally, the infection rate is reasonably rapid and the required treatment is much more than seasonal influenza.

 

In countries with pretty good general health and health care systems about 1% of people with influenza develop symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization, COVID-19 is around 16%-18%. This is not the current hospitalization rate but people with symptoms equivalent to those that get hospitalized with influenza, actual rates are higher. It should be apparent that from this the economic impacts from a much greater amount of people off work is much larger than the flu and the even greater costs of the hospitalizations. Failure to adequately manage an outbreak like this could lead to hospitals being incapable of handling the required number of patients and that impacts more than just the infected but everyone in or requiring hospitalization for any reason. Nobody should die who otherwise wouldn't from an unrelated viral outbreak to their condition.

 

Mortality rate is also very different to that of influenza.

Even with a lack of statistical evidence globally and over a long time frame this above graphic should illustrate just how sever the impact would be without a global effort to slow or contain the spread of the virus. Do you potentially want ~20%+ of the 'grandparents' of the country to die? What about 2%-3% of senior executives and business operators, managers etc?

 

It's usually a good idea to keep in mind that disease control and health experts don't generally panic over nothing, we might not have the full understanding of why something is important but that is why they are in the position they are in giving us the advice.

[Mister Woof]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:22 AM, leadeater said:

Spoiler

 

The problem is now, even if over generations immunity builds (which is unlikely, explain later) we have to care about the now. Why we care about these particular outbreaks is that it is not a typical mutation of a seasonal virus that generally stays localized to the region of mutation i.e. Seasonal Influenza. Influenza world wide causes around 300,000-600,000 deaths per year and are mostly repertory related, you need oxygen entering your system to live and without that you will die.

 

This is why even H1N1/09 "Swine Flu" was a global concern, even with a mortality rate lower than seasonal influenza. It was a mutation of a virus that was spreading globally not regionally and no single region was exhibiting any resistance to the virus. Even with all the global commerce and travel we have now and at the time the preventative measures taken kept the global infection rate to around 11%-21%. Typical flu season is between 5%-15% but as alluded to each region actually have there own mutations of influenza and global spread of any particular strain is rare, this is also due to influenza vaccines designed choices on which strains to cover and those choices are also regional.

 

Looking at mortality rates doesn't give a proper picture of the issue. There are other important factors that need consideration like how is the virus spreading (localized vs globally), the infection rate (how quickly), required treatment and finally mortality rates with considerations for demographics.

 

So we have established we are dealing with a virus that is being or has the capability to be contracted globally, the infection rate is reasonably rapid and the required treatment is much more than seasonal influenza.

 

In countries with pretty good general health and health care systems about 1% of people with influenza develop symptoms severe enough to require hospitalization, COVID-19 is around 16%-18%. This is not the current hospitalization rate but people with symptoms equivalent to those that get hospitalized with influenza, actual rates are higher. It should be apparent that from this the economic impacts from a much greater amount of people off work is much larger than the flu and the even greater costs of the hospitalizations. Failure to adequately manage an outbreak like this could lead to hospitals being incapable of handling the required number of patients and that impacts more than just the infected but everyone in or requiring hospitalization for any reason. Nobody should die who otherwise wouldn't from an unrelated viral outbreak to their condition.

 

Mortality rate is also very different to that of influenza.

Even with a lack of statistical evidence globally and over a long time frame this above graphic should illustrate just have sever the impact would be without a global effort to slow or contain the spread of the virus. Do you potentially want ~20%+ of the 'grandparents' of the country to die? What about 2%-3% of senior executives and business operators, managers etc?

 

It's usually a good idea to keep in mind that disease control and health experts don't generally panic over nothing, we might not have the full understanding of why something is important but that is why they are in the position they are in giving us the advice.

 

 

Oh, I know it's bad and we need to work on it now. It's just that my government doesn't seem to really care much about it because reasons.

Edited March 19, 2020 by LogicalDrm
Added spoiler

[SpikeSpiegel]

6 hours ago, Deli said:

Don't use the example Black Death. 1/3 to half of the human population perished during that pandemic.

 

There is much we don't know about this particular virus. Don't panic and stay alert. Everyone does their part to mitigate the risk.

 

More develop countries have more resources to deal with the disease. However, you sound like even though there are outbreaks in less developed countries. There is nothing to worry about. Wow.

Before the Corona virus hit China.  Northern China had a extreme case of the Bubonic Plague.  Chinese people would hunt for wild rabbits and rats back in Nov 2019.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/16/china-bubonic-plague-outbreak-pandemic/

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, Mister Woof said:

Oh, I know it's bad and we need to work on it now. It's just that my government doesn't seem to really care much about it because reasons.

Well I'd probably word it along the lines of those that are responsible for this type of thing do care but those of which get more publicity don't or care more about image/perception.

[PhantomJaguarr]

#toiletpapergate has affected me locally. A fight over toilet paper broke out at the Costco I shop at sometimes. Haven’t found a source that reported it yet though. It’s only going to get worse in my State because now we have our own Diamond Princess situation on the Grand Princess Cruise ship right off the coast by San Francisco.

 

Quote

Of the 21 people who tested positive, he added, 19 are crew members and two are passengers. Pence said health officials tested only 46 people aboard the ship.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/vp-pence-says-21-people-on-the-grand-princess-cruise-ship-off-california-coast-have-tested-positive-for-coronavirus.html

 

The panic is spreading as fast as the virus.

[PurplDrank]

2 hours ago, CalintzJerevinan said:

Before the Corona virus hit China.  Northern China had a extreme case of the Bubonic Plague.  Chinese people would hunt for wild rabbits and rats back in Nov 2019.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/11/16/china-bubonic-plague-outbreak-pandemic/

I thought rats is where Coronavirus came from? Eating rats is a cultural delicacy in China I thought? 

[SpikeSpiegel]

5 minutes ago, PurplDrank said:

I thought rats is where Coronavirus came from? Eating rats is a cultural delicacy in China I thought? 

There is a Cantonese saying: "Any animal whose back faces the sun can be eaten" , and in Northern Chinese areas such as Beijing, it is said "The Cantonese will eat anything that swims, except the submarine. Everything that flies, except the airplane, and everything that has legs, except the table.".

 

https://www.ibiblio.org/chineseculture/contents/food/p-food-c01s03.html