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I'm Returning my Mac Pro

Emily Young
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We finally got our hands on Apple’s first new proper desktop computer in over a decade – And their most expensive computer EVER. Could it possibly justify its price tag?
 

 

Buy a Mac Pro:
From Apple: https://lmg.gg/vplG8

 

Buy Pro Display XDR:
On Amazon (PAID LINK): https://geni.us/swe7rle
From Apple: https://lmg.gg/U0rL0

 

Purchases made through some store links may provide some compensation to Linus Media Group.

Emily @ LINUS MEDIA GROUP                                  

congratulations on breaking absolutely zero stereotypes - @cs_deathmatch

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That title makes me want to retire too

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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But, but, but, what about the inevitable setup flex videos?  Its good for that right?

 

You can build a PC that competes with their highest level model for close to the cost of the entry model.  There will always be people with money to burn though.

El Zoido:  9900k + RTX 4090 / 32 gb 3600mHz RAM / z390 Aorus Master 

 

The Box:  3900x + RTX 3080 /  32 gb 3000mHz RAM / B550 MSI mortar 

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I really loved that LTT took the standpoint to pricing from the professional use. Like when put like that it's no different from camera and lighting gear pricing that goes from mildly crazy (RED) to completely insane (there is a reason why movie productions rent their gear and still then they are expensive). And I mean really insane, like some simple IO-cards go for thousands easily (I once talked with a guy from YLE and it costed them around 1M€ to upgrade one of their mobile multi-camera live broadcast gears from analog to digital output and they basicly just slapped A/D converter and hardware to it, probably building completely new all digital set would have been a bit cheaper but when there's extra in the budget and the amount of budget next year depends on how much they can go to red earlier year, it's probably completely logical move to upgrade the existing gear).

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I totally agree with your conclusions and have said similar things when the Mac Pro was announced. Do not agree with the price markup thing. For example Apple is asking 18k euro's for the 1,5TB RAM upgrade and if you were to buy 1,5TB ECC RAM from Samsung it would cost you (surprise surprise) 18K euro's. Same for the rest of the hardware, this is workstation grade hardware. If you do a apple's to apple's comparison similar hardware from (say) Supermicro would cost you the same.

Same goes for the display, alot of money for consumer applications but a pro display with the same specs would easily run you 2 to 4 times the price Apple is asking.

"Yeah but upgrade options suck, an RTX 2080 wouldn't cost nearly as much". Yeah but the people/companies buying these do not care about what's inside. They want a device for a very specific purpose and they want that device to perform that task without any problems. If they want to upgrade, they won't run out to a store and buy an extra GPU. They'll have an all-in enterprise support agreement which covers upgrades and such.

The problem isn't the hardware or the price Apple is asking. It is the support and Apple is seriously lacking. As a consumer buying one of there, you are paying for enterprise level hardware but you do not get the enterprise level support associated with the cost. Unless you known what you are doing and really need such a device so you can work at home, there really is no need to buy such a device.

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Being in the post production industry in LA I can safely say that I don't see this thing making headway. All the studios that I've been or know people at are all PC based, alternating between Windows and Linux. The only place I ever see mac workstations is in editing bays or at a production house in Chicago that specializes in commercials. Hollywood doesn't really care about this thing, outright buying it just doesn't make sense for large outfits especially if it'll be outdated soon enough. I can't think of any MAC specific tools that we'd use as everything is covered between Windows and Linux. The GPU with massive HBM2 memory is the only thing I could see being somewhat interesting, but considering it's a MAC exclusive I'm certain that leasing a Dell machine with a Quadro is a lot cheaper in the long run.

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The ridiculous thing is that this is priced way out of the ball park for a high-end desktop (user), yet still cannot compete with modern 2P workstations or even servers. A casual browse on thinkmate dot com's workstation offerings shows that for under $50K you can get a system with 8 hot swap drive bays, a 5 year advanced part replacement with next business day onsite warranty and a pair of the top end proper workstation Quadro 8000 cards.

 

Go to the top end and you can get 2x what Apple can stuff in this thing (dual 28 core, 3TB RAM etc...) for well under $100K. The ONLY thing Apple is "laser focused on" is marketing this towards those who value form over function... or are just stupid with deep wallets LOL

 

Because the smart guys with deep wallets will move away from Mac OS on the workstation and server side, and those who just need more cores can get a 3990 threadripper, toss a pair of Titans in there and still get better performance per dollar. There is no way a server or system admin worth his paycheck will allow deployment of an encrypted system drive, system board and OS tied to a proprietary soldered chip in an environment where every hour of down time can cost $$$ in triple digits, if not thousands.

 

And no, serious users won't be paying $1000 for a monitor stand and $400 for a set of casters (only hipsters call them wheels). But I am also curious why exactly does Apple charge $500 more for the rackmount version when a set of rails can be had for $17, or $40 for the heavy duty ones.

 

Incidentally a dual Rome system with 128 total cores, 4TB RAM, 8TB of NVMe goodness and stacked with EIGHT Radeon Instinct cards will set you back a cool $120K. With a few VM's running whatever OS you want you'll be running circles around the Mac.

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While it's great that the mac pro is user upgradeable, I wonder how many actual users would upgrade it themselves.

 

Let's be fair. Most ACTUAL users who are buying and using this thing probably don't understand how to swap a GPU in the first place. Most of them would be creative professionals.

 

BUT, while most people are going to say "smh, apple sheep", it's important to understand that these people have used macOS exclusively and their workflow might be quite exclusive to it. The amount of downtime for companies to re-educate their employees to use windows or linux at times would be not worth the money, especially if they are big companies working on high-value projects.

 

Many creative software are also usually better optimized on macOS and usually receive the big updates first. Also macOS gets all its update from the OS update. Windows and linux would require you to update drivers separately at times, which could cause major issues from bad updates.

 

Mac pro is absolutely over-priced for customers, but it's not a customer product in the first place. It's an actual pro device and IMO right now, apple has all the range covered for mac, from mac mini all the way to mac pro.

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With respect to the base GPU its place in this machine is there not for the video or 2d graphics market but for the audio industry. All they need to gpu for is running a few large screens and playing back some video they do not need more of a GPU.

also as to quite AMD are just not ready to get into this is TB3 while one can `hack` TB3 style connection with a Threadripper what you cant do is get the TB3 certification, if your connecting audio/video equipment (that costs more than the compute fully speced out) you will not be doing that with hacky solutions. TB2 and now TB3 are very dominent in the audio industry as the prefured way to connect to an external DAC.

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haha apple bad right guys??????

 

giv karma.

Brands I wholeheartedly reccomend (though do have flawed products): Apple, Razer, Corsair, Asus, Gigabyte, bequiet!, Noctua, Fractal, GSkill (RAM only)

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How To Make Your Own Cloud Storage

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Laptop: 2020 iPad Pro 12.9" with Magic Keyboard

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PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gKh8zN

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core OEM/Tray Processor  (Purchased For $419.99) 
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Formula ATX AM4 Motherboard  (Purchased For $356.99) 
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  (Purchased For $130.00) 
Storage: Kingston Predator 240 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $40.00) 
Storage: Crucial MX300 1.05 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Storage: Western Digital Red 8 TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $180.00) 
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Case: Fractal Design Define R6 USB-C ATX Mid Tower Case  (Purchased For $100.00) 
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $120.00) 
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $75.00) 
Total: $1891.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-04-02 19:59 EDT-0400

身のなわたしはる果てぞ  悲しわたしはかりけるわたしは

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The video was good, but I don't understand the video title. I apologize if I've missed the memo, but I last recall hearing that titles with claims that aren't supported by the video wouldn't be used. I was looking forward to hearing why it was going to be returned.

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7 hours ago, Zberg said:

But, but, but, what about the inevitable setup flex videos?  Its good for that right?

 

You can build a PC that competes with their highest level model for close to the cost of the entry model.  There will always be people with money to burn though.

Does it matter though? 

 

A Mac User is more likely to use Final Cut Pro over adobe premiere, meaning that any hardware advantages a windows desktop build may have over an equivalently-priced Mac Pro is largely moot when it can't run the same software. And software like FCP help to alleviate the lack of raw specs to some extent because it's so much better optimised for the OS. 

 

At the end of the day, it feels like apples to oranges. 

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Quote

Linus: Check out the latest part of our hackpro build where we try to take this thing on with a hackintosh

 

 

Do i miss something? Because i didnt find that video ...

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Does the gap near the front allow for the front grill to double as a cheese grater?

 

 

 

 

cheese.jpg

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1 hour ago, abazigal said:

Does it matter though? 

 

A Mac User is more likely to use Final Cut Pro over adobe premiere, meaning that any hardware advantages a windows desktop build may have over an equivalently-priced Mac Pro is largely moot when it can't run the same software. And software like FCP help to alleviate the lack of raw specs to some extent because it's so much better optimised for the OS. 

 

At the end of the day, it feels like apples to oranges. 

Add to that the fact that many studios will also want to be able to pick up existing projects so will expect to be able to run all the common editing tools on there workstations so that they don't turn away clients.

Even Adobe products and Hudina run better on macOS (thank windows). Not talking about render times but rather HDR, scaling and other system integrations these things can matter more in the day to day than 5% faster render times.

In general this pushing developers to integrate with the system features is something apple have done a lot better than MS.

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No benchmarks?

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59 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

No benchmarks?

There's benchmarks in the video 

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Posted
8 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

And here I was thinking you guys were going away from click-bait titles...

nod....as returning it didn't come up, AND Linus said in a WAN Show they missed te deadline to return it.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Video Beagle said:

nod....as returning it didn't come up, AND Linus said in a WAN Show they missed te deadline to return it.

So they are stuck with it? Seems like a pretty expensive piece of gear to just have around collecting dust. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, abazigal said:

So they are stuck with it? Seems like a pretty expensive piece of gear to just have around collecting dust. 

I won't be surprised if they kept it up for sale on their merch store.

Things they sold before: phone(s) and a motherboard.

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Posted

Hello, 

Can someone please let me know what are the diff between 3275m and without m version ? 

Also will 3175x work on mac pro ? 

 

Thanks.
LEO

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Posted

"Backed up by IBM's Global Technology Services."

 

 

Annnnnd were done here.

I had a pair of IBM $10k (and this was back in the early 2000s) servers that went bad, being brand new, they came out and did some "troubleshooting" determining the mainboard had gone bad, and were replaced with a pair of "FRU" mainboards.

 

FRU meant "Field Replaceable Unit", AKA used parts.

With a 90 day warranty

So our $10k servers we bought, with 5 year warranty, just got reduced to 90 days.

 

FU IBM. FU hard. 

NOTE: I no longer frequent this site. If you really need help, PM/DM me and my e.mail will alert me. 

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Posted

Just a quick question/comment about this video. Linus point out the CPU pricing for Xeon w-3275 is around $4300, but wouldn't the CPU in question have to be a Xeon W-3275M which would make apples price for CPU pretty fair since Intel's suggested price for that is just shy of $7500?

 

Reason I think this is because of Apple's 1.5TB RAM spec and according to Intel Ark, Xeon W-3275 only supports up to 1TB of RAM, while Xeon W-3275M supports of to 2TB. Not defending apple pricing overall or anything, but on this one point it seems like the pricing is fair unless I'm missing something.

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Posted
7 hours ago, abazigal said:

So they are stuck with it? Seems like a pretty expensive piece of gear to just have around collecting dust. 

Yep, and they totally deserve that, too.  They pretty much announced to the world they had no intentions of keeping it, and were just purchasing it to review it and then send it back.  That's a dick move, if ever there was one, IMHO.  So, now that they've missed the return window, they can eat it.

 

Karma's a bitch sometimes.  And this is one of those times.

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