Electricity is haywire in my building, whats the worst that can happen to my components.

[OnlyAxolotl]

I have serious power issues in the flat that I live in. it has been going on for over a year now and the landlord has sent professional company electricians to fix it over 5 times.

 

The same thing happens again. My lights flicker and things like fans slow down or go off for seconds.

 

My expensive 144hz monitor has defiantly been damaged. It has lost a considerable amount of NITS, and I now need max brightness to match what was about half before.

 

God knows what has happened to my other components. I get stuttering loads of games. My PSU has been making electrical arcing noises multiple times when I woke up.

 

Today there was a massive outage in my flat where the lights and fans where turning off all around (ceiling extractor, air purifier etc). My monitor doesn't dip which I find strange and the PC doesn't turn off.

 

I have no idea what is broken or not now, and whether the performance issues i have in games are the result of "grey area" damage, where it isns't balck and white and works or not.

 

I know the PSU has a large capacitor in the back that stops damage from outages like these but I don't know how long that lasts. Also if there was a full power outage, which hasn't happened lately, the PC would turn off immediately.

 

I know components draw more current to compensate for lower voltage.

 

Someone with experience please help me. Even my peripherals are expensive and I don't want them broken too. Johnny GURU Psu literally told me himself that a UPS won't solve the issue.

 

Help.

 

 

[Akira Shimazu]

dont use the pc.

[Alex Atkin UK]

That sounds downright dangerous, I'd be worried about what is causing such huge voltage drop and is whatever it is going to set the place on fire.

Capacitors are NOT designed for that kind of duty cycle, they WILL fail.

[OnlyAxolotl]

8 minutes ago, Wolfycapt said:

dont use the pc.

Too late for that

[Akira Shimazu]

1 minute ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

That sounds downright dangerous, I'd be worried about WHY its happening.

Capacitors are NOT designed for that kind of duty cycle, they WILL fail.

once is okay. multiple occasion tend to burst.

[Alex Atkin UK]

1 minute ago, Wolfycapt said:

once is okay. multiple occasion tend to burst.

Its what I meant by duty cycle, as in constantly being subjected to it.

[dalekphalm]

47 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

I have serious power issues in the flat that I live in. it has been going on for over a year now and the landlord has sent professional company electricians to fix it over 5 times.

 

The same thing happens again. My lights flicker and things like fans slow down or go off for seconds.

 

My expensive 144hz monitor has defiantly been damaged. It has lost a considerable amount of NITS, and I now need max brightness to match what was about half before.

 

God knows what has happened to my other components. I get stuttering loads of games. My PSU has been making electrical arcing noises multiple times when I woke up.

 

Today there was a massive outage in my flat where the lights and fans where turning off all around (ceiling extractor, air purifier etc). My monitor doesn't dip which I find strange and the PC doesn't turn off.

 

I have no idea what is broken or not now, and whether the performance issues i have in games are the result of "grey area" damage, where it isns't balck and white and works or not.

 

I know the PSU has a large capacitor in the back that stops damage from outages like these but I don't know how long that lasts. Also if there was a full power outage, which hasn't happened lately, the PC would turn off immediately.

 

I know components draw more current to compensate for lower voltage.

 

Someone with experience please help me. Even my peripherals are expensive and I don't want them broken too. Johnny GURU Psu literally told me himself that a UPS won't solve the issue.

 

Help.

 

 

You need to buy a UPS, my friend.

 

First question:

1. On average, how long do the power outages/spikes happen?

2. What's the longest it's happened? How frequently has it been this long?

3. What is the load (in Watts) of your system (full PC plus monitor and anything else that must be protected)? If you don't know, list the full specs, including model numbers for your system plus monitor plus other critical things you want protected?

 

Basically, you need to get a UPS that can handle the load of your PC (worst case would be take the max wattage of your PSU and add in the power consumption of your monitor) - and you need the battery to be big enough to last through the spike.

 

A good UPS will clean the power too, so your PC will be getting better electricity.

[OnlyAxolotl]

17 minutes ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

Its what I meant by duty cycle, as in constantly being subjected to it.

 

17 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You need to buy a UPS, my friend.

 

First question:

1. On average, how long do the power outages/spikes happen?

2. What's the longest it's happened? How frequently has it been this long?

3. What is the load (in Watts) of your system (full PC plus monitor and anything else that must be protected)? If you don't know, list the full specs, including model numbers for your system plus monitor plus other critical things you want protected?

 

Basically, you need to get a UPS that can handle the load of your PC (worst case would be take the max wattage of your PSU and add in the power consumption of your monitor) - and you need the battery to be big enough to last through the spike.

 

A good UPS will clean the power too, so your PC will be getting better electricity.

1. I've been lucky in that my PC has been off most of the times that it has happened. It is random. For a few days it was flicking like crazy turning things off. I didn't turn anything on then.

 

2. Today the power had issues twice. My fans in the room dipped and came back along with two long spikes in the lights flickering for say 2-3 seconds. The PC didn't turn off nor did the monitor

 

3. My system likely consumes about 500-550w

 

6700k

1070 Strix

2x SSD 250gb Samusng evo

650w Evga Gold

16gb RAM

 

Monitor: Benq 144hz

 

I was told that a UPS wouldn't really help the situation as its the spikes in current that do the damage. 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

A UPS should detect any instability and continue operating until all dips/spikes have stopped.  However if its happening as frequently as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if it killed the UPS itself.

 

Also, highly unlikely your system consumes anything near 500W.

What country are you in?  Because I know in neither the UK or US what is happening would be considered safe, let alone acceptable.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, johndole25 said:

 

1. I've been lucky in that my PC has been off most of the times that it has happened. It is random. For a few days it was flicking like crazy turning things off. I didn't turn anything on then.

 

2. Today the power had issues twice. My fans in the room dipped and came back along with two long spikes in the lights flickering for say 2-3 seconds. The PC didn't turn off nor did the monitor

Okay so if we're dealing mostly with flicker, you're in good shape because the individual fluctuations/spikes/drops will be seconds or even milliseconds, so the battery really only needs to kick in for short durations.

Quote

3. My system likely consumes about 500-550w

 

6700k

1070 Strix

2x SSD 250gb Samusng evo

650w Evga Gold

16gb RAM

 

Monitor: Benq 144hz

Okay so let's just ballpark 700W total system draw (including spikes, such as when the system powers on, and when you're stressing the CPU/GPU to the max via games or benchmarks).

 

If you get actual hard measurements, this number can be tweaked.

 

As Alex says, your actual system draw is unlikely actually as high as 500W. I punched in your PC's specs into a PSU calculator, set it to 100% CPU utilization w/ both a moderate CPU and GPU overclock, and it estimated just under 400W. Most monitors consume about 30W or so - some as high as 60W.

 

So let's assume worst case 460W - round it to 500W and be done.

Quote

I was told that a UPS wouldn't really help the situation as its the spikes in current that do the damage. 

A UPS would definitely still help - a good UPS will actually take your line voltage and use it to charge the battery, and will actually condition the power and output a cleaner power signal.

 

1 hour ago, Alex Atkin UK said:

A UPS should detect any instability and continue operating until all dips/spikes have stopped.  However if its happening as frequently as it sounds, I wouldn't be surprised if it killed the UPS itself.

If it's happening all day long? Yeah - that UPS will only last so long. But at least it'll be the UPS killing itself instead of everything else.

 

It should still help in the short term while the electrical is sorted.

Quote

Also, highly unlikely your system consumes anything near 500W.

All true.

 

@johndole25 what voltage does your home operate at? 120V? 230V? Something else?

Basically I would recommend a 500W UPS of decent build quality.

 

Now there are different types of UPS's. There are two main specifications to look at:

1. Overall type

A. Line Interactive

These will power your equipment directly from your mains electricity, and if it detects voltage drops or spikes, it'll use a transformer to bring the voltage back in line. They are less accurate and less protecting though - they have an average "accuracy" of about 15% (So if the target is 120V, it could be + or - 15% - that means anywhere from 102V to 138V).

B. On-line

These are higher end units and will take the incoming voltage, convert it to DC, then convert it back to AC at the target voltage - they have an accuracy of about 2-3% of target voltage. These will be much better suited for you.

 

2. Sinewave output

A. Pure sine

Most people will say these are best, and that they are recommended for computers.

B. Stepped "approximate" sine

Some say these are garbage, others say they are fine.

 

I've ran plenty of computers off of Stepped sinewave UPS's (most low end ones are stepped) and never had an issue - I wouldn't run a server off of it though.

 

A basic Line interactive UPS will still help, but it'll be much more susceptible to dying with lots of voltage flicker. But they're also significantly cheaper.

 

here's a comparison:

APC BX1300G

1300VA / 780W

Line-Interactive / Stepped approximate sinewave

https://www.apc.com/shop/ca/en/products/Power-Saving-Back-UPS-XS-1300VA-120V-Canada/P-BX1300G-CA

Retail: ~$200

 

APC SRT 1000VA

1000VA / 900W

On-Line double conversion (AC -> DC -> AC) / Pure sinewave

https://www.apc.com/shop/ca/en/products/APC-Smart-UPS-SRT-1000VA-120V/P-SRT1000XLA

Retail: ~$1000

 

Granted, if you do your research you can likely find an on-line/pure sine UPS for a lot cheaper. Plus there are plenty of good used deals (just buy a new battery).

 

Even a shitty UPS will help a bit.

 

But ultimately you need to get an electrician to solve the problem long term.

 

Edit: Some reading material

https://blog.tripplite.com/line-interactive-vs-on-line-network-ups-systems-and-which-should-you-choose/

[Artcurus]

Alex brought me here. I dont know if you are on the US, but it sounds like  the connection to the grid is failing and/or you have a bad master ground for the entire system. Here, the connection to the grid is handled by a different company, mine is Oncore, but the actual billing is handled by TXU (Texas). Oncore is responsible for the actual connection to the grid.If this is the case, the landlord needs to call the one responsible for the connection to the grid.

 

Single phase residental power here is done by splitting 120v between two legs (two large wires) of a larger wire , with a common neutral and a master ground. If one of those legs is breaking down, it can cause low power/no power to one side of the house, While the other side is working fine.  If the master ground or  common neutral comes loose, it's going to find any way path  it can, whether it be through your cooking stove, refrigerator,  furnace blower, anywhere it can. If this is the case, and it really does sound that's what the problem is, this is a  highly, highly dangerous situation that in the US, it  would get the power turned off and "red tagged" meaning that the house could be disconnected from the grid until it's fixed.

 

Large commercial buildings often run 3 phase 440 volt, splitting the phases and voltage between all three legs of the main wire. It's then distributed to the smaller distribution panels within the building. However, the same basic issue still apply.

 

[OnlyAxolotl]

15 hours ago, Artcurus said:

Alex brought me here. I dont know if you are on the US, but it sounds like  the connection to the grid is failing and/or you have a bad master ground for the entire system. Here, the connection to the grid is handled by a different company, mine is Oncore, but the actual billing is handled by TXU (Texas). Oncore is responsible for the actual connection to the grid.If this is the case, the landlord needs to call the one responsible for the connection to the grid.

 

Single phase residental power here is done by splitting 120v between two legs (two large wires) of a larger wire , with a common neutral and a master ground. If one of those legs is breaking down, it can cause low power/no power to one side of the house, While the other side is working fine.  If the master ground or  common neutral comes loose, it's going to find any way path  it can, whether it be through your cooking stove, refrigerator,  furnace blower, anywhere it can. If this is the case, and it really does sound that's what the problem is, this is a  highly, highly dangerous situation that in the US, it  would get the power turned off and "red tagged" meaning that the house could be disconnected from the grid until it's fixed.

 

Large commercial buildings often run 3 phase 440 volt, splitting the phases and voltage between all three legs of the main wire. It's then distributed to the smaller distribution panels within the building. However, the same basic issue still apply.

 

Thanks for the info much appreciated!

[OnlyAxolotl]

15 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Okay so if we're dealing mostly with flicker, you're in good shape because the individual fluctuations/spikes/drops will be seconds or even milliseconds, so the battery really only needs to kick in for short durations.

Okay so let's just ballpark 700W total system draw (including spikes, such as when the system powers on, and when you're stressing the CPU/GPU to the max via games or benchmarks).

 

If you get actual hard measurements, this number can be tweaked.

 

As Alex says, your actual system draw is unlikely actually as high as 500W. I punched in your PC's specs into a PSU calculator, set it to 100% CPU utilization w/ both a moderate CPU and GPU overclock, and it estimated just under 400W. Most monitors consume about 30W or so - some as high as 60W.

 

So let's assume worst case 460W - round it to 500W and be done.

A UPS would definitely still help - a good UPS will actually take your line voltage and use it to charge the battery, and will actually condition the power and output a cleaner power signal.

 

If it's happening all day long? Yeah - that UPS will only last so long. But at least it'll be the UPS killing itself instead of everything else.

 

It should still help in the short term while the electrical is sorted.

All true.

 

@johndole25 what voltage does your home operate at? 120V? 230V? Something else?

Basically I would recommend a 500W UPS of decent build quality.

 

Now there are different types of UPS's. There are two main specifications to look at:

1. Overall type

A. Line Interactive

These will power your equipment directly from your mains electricity, and if it detects voltage drops or spikes, it'll use a transformer to bring the voltage back in line. They are less accurate and less protecting though - they have an average "accuracy" of about 15% (So if the target is 120V, it could be + or - 15% - that means anywhere from 102V to 138V).

B. On-line

These are higher end units and will take the incoming voltage, convert it to DC, then convert it back to AC at the target voltage - they have an accuracy of about 2-3% of target voltage. These will be much better suited for you.

 

2. Sinewave output

A. Pure sine

Most people will say these are best, and that they are recommended for computers.

B. Stepped "approximate" sine

Some say these are garbage, others say they are fine.

 

I've ran plenty of computers off of Stepped sinewave UPS's (most low end ones are stepped) and never had an issue - I wouldn't run a server off of it though.

 

A basic Line interactive UPS will still help, but it'll be much more susceptible to dying with lots of voltage flicker. But they're also significantly cheaper.

 

here's a comparison:

APC BX1300G

1300VA / 780W

Line-Interactive / Stepped approximate sinewave

https://www.apc.com/shop/ca/en/products/Power-Saving-Back-UPS-XS-1300VA-120V-Canada/P-BX1300G-CA

Retail: ~$200

 

APC SRT 1000VA

1000VA / 900W

On-Line double conversion (AC -> DC -> AC) / Pure sinewave

https://www.apc.com/shop/ca/en/products/APC-Smart-UPS-SRT-1000VA-120V/P-SRT1000XLA

Retail: ~$1000

 

Granted, if you do your research you can likely find an on-line/pure sine UPS for a lot cheaper. Plus there are plenty of good used deals (just buy a new battery).

 

Even a shitty UPS will help a bit.

 

But ultimately you need to get an electrician to solve the problem long term.

 

Edit: Some reading material

https://blog.tripplite.com/line-interactive-vs-on-line-network-ups-systems-and-which-should-you-choose/

Thanks for the detailed information, I will be getitng UPS, much obliged!

 

Is there any way I can test my system now for stuttering, as I am getting a lot of that, and want tobe clea my GPU isn't broken.

 

Is there a stutter free test I can run?

[Artcurus]

6 hours ago, johndole25 said:

Thanks for the info much appreciated!

John,

The problem is, and that I can't stress enough. THIS COULD CATCH FIRE AT ANY TIME and burn the flat and/or building down. The UPS is the least of your problems, Your landlord  must get a competent  electrician to find out exactly what is going on. Show the electrician/landlord my post, the electrician will know what I"m talking about. Barring that, MOVE before a tragedy happens.This is a ticking time bomb. it's not a matter of if, but when.

[OnlyAxolotl]

14 hours ago, Artcurus said:

John,

The problem is, and that I can't stress enough. THIS COULD CATCH FIRE AT ANY TIME and burn the flat and/or building down. The UPS is the least of your problems, Your landlord  must get a competent  electrician to find out exactly what is going on. Show the electrician/landlord my post, the electrician will know what I"m talking about. Barring that, MOVE before a tragedy happens.This is a ticking time bomb. it's not a matter of if, but when.

I appreciate the help. 

 

They have sent the electrical company four times now. The landlord has said it's a fuse issue the last time, is that still dangerous. Woudln't they have mentioned if something seriously dangerous was happening?

 

I am thinking of claiming compensation now this has got silly, it's been a whole year. I can't move right now

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, johndole25 said:

I appreciate the help. 

 

They have sent the electrical company four times now. The landlord has said it's a fuse issue the last time, is that still dangerous. Woudln't they have mentioned if something seriously dangerous was happening?

Is that what the electrical company told him? Or does he (the landlord) think it's a fuse issue?

1 minute ago, johndole25 said:

I am thinking of claiming compensation now this has got silly, it's been a whole year. I can't move right now

If your country has some kind of tenant/rental protection act, then yes, you should be getting compensation for each month it's been like this. It'll likely be a negotiation between what you think is fair compensation for each month (eg: 10% of rent returned).

 

In Ontario (Canada) we have what's called the Landlord and Tenant Board - this is an independent government sanctioned review board that hears cases about landlord and tenant issues. With the Board, I could easily apply for partial rent refunds for electrical issues like that - especially if it's determined that there is a clear safety hazard (and in the case of a safety hazard, I might even end up winning a shitload of money from the Landlord if it's clear that they knew about the risk and put my life in danger by not fixing it).

 

So what you can do specifically will depend on where you live and what laws you have.

 

But either way, you need to get that fixed immediately. If it's still happening, the landlord needs to call in a different expert. If it was as simple as a fuse issue, it would have been sorted out long ago.

[Artcurus]

1 minute ago, johndole25 said:

I appreciate the help. 

 

They have sent the electrical company four times now. The landlord has said it's a fuse issue the last time, is that still dangerous. Woudln't they have mentioned if something seriously dangerous was happening?

 

I am thinking of claiming compensation now this has got silly, it's been a whole year. I can't move right now

Not necessarily. In the US, there was a brand of electrical boxes called Federal Pacific, they were used in millions of homes from the 1940's to about 1990 when they were sued out of existence. The breakers in these boxes do not trip, and suffer from serious design flaws. Federal Pacific lied about the safety of their breakers, and there's been hundreds of anecdotes about house fires started by these boxes. Here's the kicker, in some states, they don't have to mention the safety issues with these boxes, even though some insurance companies have stopped covering houses with them.

 

My own parents dodged two bullets with their 1950's Federal Pacific box when the breakers didn't trip after plugs flamed out. They finally had the electric box replaced.

[Intergalacticbits]

25 minutes ago, johndole25 said:

They have sent the electrical company four times now. The landlord has said it's a fuse issue the last time, is that still dangerous. Woudln't they have mentioned if something seriously dangerous was happening?

Dude if you don't already have one get a battery operated smoke detector for your place right away.

Then think in advance about what would be the fastest and best way to get out of the building in case of a fire.

If it isn't your normal way then you might even want to walk it though once. Just so it is set in your mind in advance.

The last thing you want is to be trying to find your way out half asleep in a smoke filled building. A lot of people die that way.

 

I don't know what country you live in but by the way you say flat. I'm guessing you might not be in the US but across the ocean.

I'm not an electrician but usually when you see flickering that is because stuff is overloaded.

The wiring in that building could possibly be overloaded.

 

If the Landlord is not getting it taken care of fast enough for you and you do live in the USA. You said it has been going on for a year.

Maybe you could call the Code Enforcement Officer where you live and tell him how it is dragging out. Maybe ask him if he would come and take a look at things in general in the building?

 

Oh, I'd definitely get a ups for the pc too.

Stay safe.