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Slayerking92

WTF Microsoft

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Posted · Original PosterOP

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/microsoft-search-bing

 

 

Starting with Version 2002 of Office 365 ProPlus, an extension for Microsoft Search in Bing will be installed that makes Bing the default search engine for the Google Chrome web browser. This extension will be installed with new installations of Office 365 ProPlus or when existing installations of Office 365 ProPlus are updated. If Bing is already the default search engine, the extension doesn't get installed.

By making Bing the default search engine, users in your organization with Google Chrome will be able to take advantage of Microsoft Search, including being able to access relevant workplace information directly from the browser address bar. Microsoft Search is part of Microsoft 365 and is turned on by default for all Microsoft apps that support it.


Now that microsoft has the chrome source code,  they are changing the default search in CHROME to use BING when you install the new O365 updates.

(I wasn't sure if this was news worthy)


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7 minutes ago, Slayerking92 said:

Now that microsoft has the chrome source code,  they are changing the default search in CHROME to use BING when you install the new O365 updates.

They've done this before with various browsers.

 

Also the source code for Chrome has always been available under Chromium.

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There used to be this thing called Scroogle that I liked a lot.  It was google but with all the data mining stripped out.  Now there is startpage which does more or less the same thing.


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This is almost certainly an optional feature (whether it's opt-in or opt-out) that you can decide not to do during install. Though not having ProPlus for 365, I can't say for certain.


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WTF indeed. 


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36 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

This is almost certainly an optional feature (whether it's opt-in or opt-out) that you can decide not to do during install. Though not having ProPlus for 365, I can't say for certain.

Imho opt out almost always means “this thing sucks so incredibly badly that we were legally forced to give you an option to not do it.  We’re hoping you’re stupid enough to not click the opt out button though”

 

I personally think opt out should be illegal.


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6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Imho opt out almost always means “this thing sucks so incredibly badly that we were legally forced to give you an option to not do it.  We’re hoping you’re stupid enough to not click the opt out button though”

Don't disagree with that.

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I personally think opt out should be illegal.

Agreed for things like this - but not universally. There are many things that should be opt-out by default (Eg: organ donations).

 

But in the case of underhanded tactics like this, yes, opt-in should be the default.


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49 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

This is almost certainly an optional feature (whether it's opt-in or opt-out) that you can decide not to do during install. Though not having ProPlus for 365, I can't say for certain.

 

Maybe not ;

 

2 hours ago, Slayerking92 said:

or when existing installations of Office 365 ProPlus are updated.

 

 

 

Unless they have different KBs for that, a sys admin might not have the choice but to push the update when it shows up in his WSUS :(


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10 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Don't disagree with that.

Agreed for things like this - but not universally. There are many things that should be opt-out by default (Eg: organ donations).

 

But in the case of underhanded tactics like this, yes, opt-in should be the default.

I was speaking specifically of web site stuff. 


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This has been a thing since the early 2000's. If I'm not mistaken, many new browsers and softwares would do whatever they could to trick you into using more of their products. remember the toolbar-pocalypse that killed IE? The thing is, unless the software repeatedly checks for settings and replaces your search engine every time you change it back, I doubt this will be an issue. I actually do like Bing a lot, as Google has gotten overzealous with their ads. Still, it's the morality of the matter, and this is a dirty business tactic which should be below Microsoft. 

 

I'd actually recommend Ecosia as your search engine if you don't mind the ads. It's google, but every search contributes to planting a tree, and clicking an ad result helps even more than a regular search.

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51 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I personally think opt out should be illegal.

 

43 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

But in the case of underhanded tactics like this, yes, opt-in should be the default.

Then it becomes a contention of what defines "software components" that should be opt-in by default.

 

I think half the things on NVIDIA's driver suite (GeForce Experience, HDMI audio driver, the 3D driver when it was around, and the USB-C driver that I can now install because my card comes with one) are pointless and/or annoying, just like people think these toolbars are such. Should those things I don't want also be opt-in only?

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19 minutes ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Then it becomes a contention of what defines "software components" that should be opt-in by default.

 

I think half the things on NVIDIA's driver suite (GeForce Experience, HDMI audio driver, the 3D driver when it was around, and the USB-C driver that I can now install because my card comes with one) are pointless and/or annoying, just like people think these toolbars are such. Should those things I don't want also be opt-in only?

I think it's hard to make a blanket statement, and each scenario needs to be considered.

 

But, as long as the installer asks you about each thing - and makes it easy enough to understand that your average user could make an informed decision, then some of those could definitely be made opt-in.

 

I think anything that affects core functionality that people expect should be part of the default install though - particularly the HDMI Audio Driver (Not sure what the USB-C driver even is, so can't comment on that).

 

But I think it should come down to "will this setting affect how other things work? - particularly other programs that aren't part of this software".


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Dependent on which things.  I personally think it would probably be worth the trade.  What I could then see happening is either tying or obfuscation.  Tying google does already.  “If you want to do this thing you will almost certainly need to do, we have arranged it so you must also do this other thing which actually has almost nothing to do with the thing you need to do and is something that almost no one I. Their right mind would want to do”. This is the one that causes me to uninstall a lot of google stuff.

Obfuscation would be to make as much as possible a setting and then hide the awful stuff amongst a forest of things that do need to be turned on.  Perhaps with a single “turn it all on” switch as well. (Thus creating tying)


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Microsoft mentality: We can do anything. If someone isn't using Linux already.. they aren't going to switch no matter what we do.

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I've read about this, but haven't read if there is an option to uninstall or redo the search engine change.  Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if once you install it, it's non-removable/changable because of some EULA with MS Office.

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In this thread: A bunch of people that don't understand software deployment in the enterprise world.

 

  • No, this isn't getting pushed to consumers against their will. This has nothing to do with consumer versions of office.
  • No, this isn't being forced on anyone, even in the enterprise sector where this is targeted. 

This is an optional extension that can be deployed by administrators if they so choose. If the administrator doesn't want it, they can simply disable the option in the deployment kit or via group policy.

 

Literally the first link in the page posted by OP explains this: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/microsoft-search-bing#which-locations-will-receive-microsoft-search-in-bing-with-office-365-proplus

 

Edit: Everyone has access to Chromium source code. You can download it directly from Google, it's open source.

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15 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

In this thread: A bunch of people that don't understand software deployment in the enterprise world.

 

B-b-but muh outrage!!!!

 

Totally agree this is not some sort of huge plot to make everyone use Bing. 

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6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Don't disagree with that.

Agreed for things like this - but not universally. There are many things that should be opt-out by default (Eg: organ donations).

 

But in the case of underhanded tactics like this, yes, opt-in should be the default.

 

Hmm, it really depends. "Opt-in only" should apply to things that do not materially affect your experience (eg with the computer, or life), like blood donation. You don't have to do it, but it benefits the greater good if you do. We've largely only seen this kind of thing with "would you like to report crashes back to (company) ?".

 

"Opt-out only" as the default should be for things that have a net-benefit to the user normally. Like asking a Restaurant to not put tomatoes or ketchup on something due to a Tomato allergy. In software this would be like opting out of various software integrations (like Adobe, Microsoft, and Autodesk software sometimes stomp on competitors plugins to their own software) that would normally work in a vacuum.

 

Where the conflict arises is when there is no opportunity to opt-in or opt-out and the software. An example of this was being forced to adopt HTTPS-only*, WASM, Canvas, WebGL, Javascript and plugins (like Flash and Java) and such in web browsers. There are good intentions behind this, and that feature won't be adopted unless everyone is forced to accept it, but these features are released not even half-baked, and as a result it's a race to close all the security holes in them.

 

*I will still argue that HTTPS-everywhere as Firefox and Google pushed it, was incredibly poorly organized and ham-handed, as now we are down to less than 3 "strong" ciphers, and absolutely nothing supports TLS1.3. So if you operate a site that has nothing that needs to be secured, the only way someone with an older browser or device (eg An Android or iPhone older than 2015) can see a site is by visiting the non-HTTPS version of the site, if it still exists and the server does not enforce HSTS. If HSTS is turned on, now large parts of the internet are impossible to reach without a device that is less than 5 years old.

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6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

Hmm, it really depends. "Opt-in only" should apply to things that do not materially affect your experience (eg with the computer, or life), like blood donation. You don't have to do it, but it benefits the greater good if you do. We've largely only seen this kind of thing with "would you like to report crashes back to (company) ?".

 

"Opt-out only" as the default should be for things that have a net-benefit to the user normally. Like asking a Restaurant to not put tomatoes or ketchup on something due to a Tomato allergy. In software this would be like opting out of various software integrations (like Adobe, Microsoft, and Autodesk software sometimes stomp on competitors plugins to their own software) that would normally work in a vacuum.

 

Where the conflict arises is when there is no opportunity to opt-in or opt-out and the software. An example of this was being forced to adopt HTTPS-only*, WASM, Canvas, WebGL, Javascript and plugins (like Flash and Java) and such in web browsers. There are good intentions behind this, and that feature won't be adopted unless everyone is forced to accept it, but these features are released not even half-baked, and as a result it's a race to close all the security holes in them.

 

*I will still argue that HTTPS-everywhere as Firefox and Google pushed it, was incredibly poorly organized and ham-handed, as now we are down to less than 3 "strong" ciphers, and absolutely nothing supports TLS1.3. So if you operate a site that has nothing that needs to be secured, the only way someone with an older browser or device (eg An Android or iPhone older than 2015) can see a site is by visiting the non-HTTPS version of the site, if it still exists and the server does not enforce HSTS. If HSTS is turned on, now large parts of the internet are impossible to reach without a device that is less than 5 years old.

My temptation is to almost completely reverse that, though I basically agree in principle.  The problem is the system gets gamed.  Blood/organ donation should be opt out because it benefits large numbers of people, and the detriment to the donor is near zero to zero.  There is advantage and detriment and they are difficult to weigh by themselves let alone against one another.

What annoys me is far too often a nebulous and minor “advantage” will be tied to a massive issue that benefits the seller, and discomforts the use but because there is an “advantage” it is opt out.  “We are providing this connection because it allows this thing”. The thing is it also allows six or 8 other things as well, all of which are not in the interests of the user, and all of them are going to be done.  


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9 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

There used to be this thing called Scroogle that I liked a lot.  It was google but with all the data mining stripped out.  Now there is startpage which does more or less the same thing.

or just use duckduckgo like all sensible people... and drop chrome and install firefox... I don't know why people still keep drinking from the rancid chrome/google/microsoft trough.


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2 hours ago, danomicar said:

 

 

Totally agree this is not some sort of huge plot to make everyone use Bing. 

You mean I have been using Bing and I don't have to?   but...   I...    it's actually not that bad.


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Searching on Bing.. One year later "None of the answers i wanted.." Searching on Google "My privacy got abused the moment i opened the browser, i guess my soul is digital and i'll live forever. And holy shit so many ads!" Searchin DuckDuckGo "WTF is up with all these russians? Isn't Yandex good enough?"

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