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ImNotNeko

(rant) Ryzen is good but some people need to stop...

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Long story short, Intel is a requirement for me, for now, and people keep recommending me to get a Ryzen.

People in this forum are less aggressive, but it still happened here too; even when I clearly stated that I need an Intel CPU.

Oh boy, but when I ask in some other platform, everyone is like "Intel 2020 is for losers" or basically same Intel roast over and over. (especially in unmoderated pages)

 

it's just that some programs I run are "kinda old" and it straight up refuses to use some cores in Ryzen.

Also, some of my programs really like AVX-512 and only Intel offers it as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking for options).

 

I have no favoritism, I use Ryzen 2600X for my gaming set up but my workstation literally requires an Intel CPU and sooooo many of these "techie" or "PC Master Race" people don't seem to understand how CPU works. 

Just because a CPU has raw processing power does not mean it's the best in every case. Please stop going around and recommending Ryzen to people who clearly states they absolutely need an Intel CPU.

 

 

btw, Ryzen 3000 series is amazing, y'all should get it unless you're stuck in a weird software situation like me... lol

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ranting about people ranting... oooookkkkkkkkkk 📢🎻🙉


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10 minutes ago, ImNotNeko said:

Also, some of my programs really like AVX-512 and only Intel offers it as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking for options).

you should probably look at Cascade Lake X. 

 

AVX 512 isnt excluse to intel, you can do it on AMD aswell as they have AVX instructions. but AMD goes to AVX2 and not AVX 512, which means they are slower at doing that job. 

 

you can brute force to go faster, but its rather unneccary when you can just go with Cascade Lake X (also known as 10th gen skylake X (its different in that it has more AVX stuff)). 

 

afaik you dont get AVX 512 for consumer plattforms, could be wrong on that one. 

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Just now, GoldenLag said:

Cascade Lake X (also known as 10th gen skylake X (its different in that it has more AVX stuff)). 

And you've pretty much just summed up why Intel isn't getting much love these days.


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Just now, aisle9 said:

And you've pretty much just summed up why Intel isn't getting much love these days.

hey, its different silicon at least. more expencive silicon, but hey, you get it for cheaper.

 

and one cant deny that the hardware has its AVX512 usecase. other AVX workloads id probably look at that or look elsewhere, but sometimes you dont have an option. 

 

its one of the few exceptions to rule 2 .

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If you're referring to your more recent post inquiring about Cascade Lake X CPUs, you didn't say anywhere that you require/need an Intel CPU all you said is you would like to re-use your motherboard because it was expensive, you even then said that your current CPU is having a run for it's money by your friends 3600x. In this post you make it sound as if you specifically typed out in the post in question that you absolutely have to have an Intel CPU, which you did not. If you don't want Ryzen/platform change recommends specifically type that out in your posts, i.e. "This build has to be Intel for what I use the system for, please no Ryzen platform recommends." it's as simple as that. LMAO, I don't know if you're trolling or not but then you go and recommend the 3000 Ryzen CPUs at the end of this post to everyone who reads it...


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Posted · Original PosterOP

 

7 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

you should probably look at Cascade Lake X. 

 

AVX 512 isnt excluse to intel, you can do it on AMD aswell as they have AVX instructions. but AMD goes to AVX2 and not AVX 512, which means they are slower at doing that job. 

 

you can brute force to go faster, but its rather unneccary when you can just go with Cascade Lake X (also known as 10th gen skylake X (its different in that it has more AVX stuff)). 

 

afaik you dont get AVX 512 for consumer plattforms, could be wrong on that one. 

 

Basically I am trying to get 10920X.

But since the "launch" it's not available anywhere. absolutely 0 stock everywhere lol.

 

 

3 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

And you've pretty much just summed up why Intel isn't getting much love these days.

 

basically... If they cut the price 70% instead of 50% it would have been a lot better and peopl probably would have said better things about it.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, SpookyCitrus said:

If you're referring to your more recent post inquiring about Cascade Lake X CPUs, you didn't say anywhere that you require/need an Intel CPU all you said is you would like to re-use your motherboard because it was expensive, you even then said that your current CPU is having a run for it's money by your friends 3600x. In this post you make it sound as if you specifically typed out in the post in question that you absolutely have to have an Intel CPU, which you did not. If you don't want Ryzen/platform change recommends specifically type that out in your posts, i.e. "This build has to be Intel for what I use the system for, please no Ryzen platform recommends." it's as simple as that. LMAO, I don't know if you're trolling or not but then you go and recommend the 3000 Ryzen CPUs at the end of this post to everyone who reads it...

 

That one is nothing... As I mentioned in post people here are more sensible.
I asked the same question in some facebook pages and I got roasted so hard for wanting, or rather needing, an Intel...

 

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7 minutes ago, ImNotNeko said:

probably would have said better things about it.

no, people would be pretty mad the charged a 130% premium on a product for 2 generation without any real change. 

 

atm people are pretty salty they charged 90% premium on it. 

 

7 minutes ago, ImNotNeko said:

Basically I am trying to get 10920X.

But since the "launch" it's not available anywhere. absolutely 0 stock everywhere lol.

you would get fairly close performance with the 3950x compared to that chip. 

 

it would be lower iirc, but not all that much. (i havent doublechecked that tho, ill have a look at it)

 

 

edit: that would be a secondary option tho. if you ever get tired of waiting for a product to get in stock

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2 minutes ago, ImNotNeko said:

That one is nothing... As I mentioned in post people here are more sensible.
I asked the same question in some facebook pages and I got roasted so hard for wanting, or rather needing, an Intel...

Even so, my point still stands. You said you are clearly stating that you have to have an Intel CPU and are getting "roasted" for it, and going back through your posts I see no such thing on here. If it's on Facebook or another forum then that's on them and not us. 


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28 minutes ago, ImNotNeko said:

Also, some of my programs really like AVX-512 and only Intel offers it as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking for options).

I am curious what you run, since AVX-512 software seems rather scarce still. I only run Prime95-like software routinely, and y-cruncher for competitive overclocking fun.

 

13 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

AVX 512 isnt excluse to intel, you can do it on AMD aswell as they have AVX instructions. but AMD goes to AVX2 and not AVX 512, which means they are slower at doing that job. 

You can't say AMD can do it except they don't have it... I'm only aware of two companies making AVX-512 enabled CPUs, and AMD is not one of them. One is Intel, the other is... I forgot the name, some obscure offshoot from Via. Don't expect to see the latter in consumer circles any time soon.

 

If the workload allows, you might be able to brute force that deficit by literally throwing more cores at it. Also note that AVX-512 is a large group of instructions. Different use cases may see different levels of acceleration from using it.

 

13 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

afaik you dont get AVX 512 for consumer plattforms, could be wrong on that one. 

It is included in Ice Lake and will also be included in more (consumer) CPUs going forward.

 

2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

you would get fairly close performance with the 3950x compared to that chip. 

Only if you don't care about AVX-512 or ram bandwidth. Those are some pretty major differences. I don't know the OP's use case, but the CCX segmentation can also be a pretty big roadblock compared to monolithic CPUs.


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11 minutes ago, ImNotNeko said:

Basically I am trying to get 10920X.

what software suite?

 

because not all avx 512 workloads will favor cascadelake all that much. 

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1 hour ago, ImNotNeko said:

Long story short, Intel is a requirement for me, for now, and people keep recommending me to get a Ryzen.

People in this forum are less aggressive, but it still happened here too; even when I clearly stated that I need an Intel CPU.

Oh boy, but when I ask in some other platform, everyone is like "Intel 2020 is for losers" or basically same Intel roast over and over. (especially in unmoderated pages)

 

it's just that some programs I run are "kinda old" and it straight up refuses to use some cores in Ryzen.

Also, some of my programs really like AVX-512 and only Intel offers it as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking for options).

 

I have no favoritism, I use Ryzen 2600X for my gaming set up but my workstation literally requires an Intel CPU and sooooo many of these "techie" or "PC Master Race" people don't seem to understand how CPU works. 

Just because a CPU has raw processing power does not mean it's the best in every case. Please stop going around and recommending Ryzen to people who clearly states they absolutely need an Intel CPU.

 

 

btw, Ryzen 3000 series is amazing, y'all should get it unless you're stuck in a weird software situation like me... lol

I can relate - Once at another place I had asked for suggestions about a new AMD build and specifically stated in the opening post AMD suggestions only since I wanted to do an AMD build that time.
And of course there was an Intel-shill still tossing Intel suggestions and even copping an attitude when I rejected those.

 

I have no real preference, both can do the job but do have different strengths between them.

If someone asks for a suggestion about an Intel, I give them what they ask for and vice-versa about AMD so there won't be any problems.

If there is a real reason to suggest the other, at the very least I will say why to that end and have something to back it up with.

 


 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

you would get fairly close performance with the 3950x compared to that chip. 

 

it would be lower iirc, but not all that much. (i havent doublechecked that tho, ill have a look at it)

 

 

edit: that would be a secondary option tho. if you ever get tired of waiting for a product to get in stock

I'm pretty sure the raw performance will be lower than 3900X.

oh, I wish software catches up and I can use w/e CPU I want.

 

I am going to wait for cascade lake X.

99x0 X cpu kinda sucks.

 

4 minutes ago, SpookyCitrus said:

Even so, my point still stands. You said you are clearly stating that you have to have an Intel CPU and are getting "roasted" for it, and going back through your posts I see no such thing on here. If it's on Facebook or another forum then that's on them and not us. 

never said it's on people here.

It's just that talking to people there is worse than talking to a wall.

So I'm just ranting here to see  if people here get it or it's just a "internet thing" where no one understands.

 

Also some "IT technicians": you want a new ultrabook for your work?
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2 minutes ago, porina said:

You can't say AMD can do it except they don't have it... I'm only aware of two companies making AVX-512 enabled CPUs, and AMD is not one of them. One is Intel, the other is... I forgot the name, some obscure offshoot from Via. Don't expect to see the latter in consumer circles any time soon.

yeah i mistook there from word ive heard earlier. thats on me. 

2 minutes ago, porina said:

If the workload allows, you might be able to brute force that deficit by literally throwing more cores at it. Also note that AVX-512 is a large group of instructions. Different use cases may see different levels of acceleration from using it.

yeah, looking through the few benchmarks i can find atm, it seems throwing cores at it is working in some scenarios. 

4 minutes ago, porina said:

It is included in Ice Lake and will also be included in more (consumer) CPUs going forward.

yeah, tho i was mostly refering to consumer socketable CPUs. did see icelake had it. 

 

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43 minutes ago, ImNotNeko said:

Please stop going around and recommending Ryzen to people who clearly states they absolutely need an Intel CPU.

A major problem I see with tech forums is they don't have any empathy. That is, they think their use case is the only use case and therefore, you're wrong if you don't line up with their use case. They try to steer people towards how they would want to tackle the system rather than work with what OP wants. I mean, there are times and places for that, but it seems like few people know when to actually do that.

 

People's use cases and experiences are their own and only their own. The sooner others understand this, the better off we'll all be.

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2 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

yeah, tho i was mostly refering to consumer socketable CPUs. did see icelake had it. 

We're all looking forward to something radically different from Intel on consumer desktop. Not holding my breath given the next gen is not expected to be that.


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Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

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Just now, porina said:

We're all looking forward to something radically different from Intel on consumer desktop. Not holding my breath given the next gen is not expected to be that.

they have cool stuff comming, but it all seems like stuff for mobile or server. 

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Just now, GoldenLag said:

they have cool stuff comming, but it all seems like stuff for mobile or server. 

Maybe we're getting off topic for this thread, but agree they seem to be putting their priority elsewhere. I'm hoping they'll do a bigger HEDT refresh based off the 10nm server parts later this year.


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Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, Corsair 600C, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

Ryzen rig: Asrock B450 ITX, R5 3600, Noctua D9L, G.SKill TridentZ 3000C14 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, WD Green 240GB SSD, LG OLED55B9PLA

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-8086k, i3-8350k, i7-7920X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700T, i5-6600k, i3-6100, i7-5930k, i7-5820k, i7-5775C, i5-5675C, 2x i7-4590, i5-4570S, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, E5-2667, R7 3700X, R5 3600, R5 2600, R7 1700

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As a long time Intel user (just look at my signature) am pleased with what AMD has accomplished these past few years.

 

I try to be objective as possible and I don't really have any brand loyalty.

 

I have a lot of BOTH Intel and AMD products (again look at my signature) but I am also keenly aware of how rabid and outright belligerent AMD fanboys are at present. They are worse than Intel fanboys have ever been. Almost like a cult.

 

That said, it doesn't speak for everyone obviously, and there are good and bad people in both camps and any excessive loyalty without analysis is dumb.

 

Edit: fun fact, not counting wireless adapters and motherboard choosers I have more discrete AMD products than Intel products. Hmm


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Maybe you should be more clear on the feature sets you are looking for? 


I refuse to read threads whose author does not know how to remove the caps lock! 

— Grumpy old man

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Alot of fanboys like to post "I need X build because I don't like Y." If you don't clearly state that your programs don't work well with AMD, you're gonna get frustrated real quick. The fact is that AMD is beating the pants off of Intel right now and everyone would want to see you get the best performance for you're dollar. Clear communication is key.


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4 minutes ago, asand1 said:

Alot of fanboys like to post "I need X build because I don't like Y." If you don't clearly state that your programs don't work well with AMD, you're gonna get frustrated real quick. The fact is that AMD is beating the pants off of Intel right now and everyone would want to see you get the best performance for you're dollar. Clear communication is key.

 

1 hour ago, miagisan said:

Maybe you should be more clear on the feature sets you are looking for? 

While OP does have a duty to do this, people who respond also have a duty to make sure to get things clarified before jumping into a recommendation. Communication is a two way street after all.

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5 hours ago, ImNotNeko said:

Long story short, Intel is a requirement for me, for now, and people keep recommending me to get a Ryzen.

People in this forum are less aggressive, but it still happened here too; even when I clearly stated that I need an Intel CPU.

Oh boy, but when I ask in some other platform, everyone is like "Intel 2020 is for losers" or basically same Intel roast over and over. (especially in unmoderated pages)

 

it's just that some programs I run are "kinda old" and it straight up refuses to use some cores in Ryzen.

Also, some of my programs really like AVX-512 and only Intel offers it as far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking for options).

 

I have no favoritism, I use Ryzen 2600X for my gaming set up but my workstation literally requires an Intel CPU and sooooo many of these "techie" or "PC Master Race" people don't seem to understand how CPU works. 

Just because a CPU has raw processing power does not mean it's the best in every case. Please stop going around and recommending Ryzen to people who clearly states they absolutely need an Intel CPU.

 

 

btw, Ryzen 3000 series is amazing, y'all should get it unless you're stuck in a weird software situation like me... lol

I hear you, if you don't benefit from Ryzen 3000 then who cares?  I personally do so the cost to performance is great.  For me Intel simply is a tough sell right now since whatever you buy is most likely not supported next gen and the power requirements probably will be massive 

Listen I got on the Ryzen train with gen two Threadripper 2950X because people on here wouldn't stop barking about the value and it was the wrong choice...  But a year or so later AMD isn't just a value proposition but a real performance option.  But again if you personally can't benefit from it do what you want 


NCase M1 V6 - ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Impact X570 - AMD Ryzen 9 3950X - EVGA RTX 2080 Ti XC Ultra - Alienware AW3418DW 34" UW Monitor - Alienware AW2518HF 240Hz

 

 

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