Phones without GApps?

[dabockster]

Hey all,
 

Is there a mainstream-ish phone that ships without GApps (Amazon doesn't count)? I'm looking for all the privacy benefits of custom roms but with actual OEM support (rather than sniffing around XDA for updates and patches).

[Arika]

Just find any phone with an unlockable bootloader and that has an official LineageOS branch 

[dabockster]

14 minutes ago, NZgamer said:

Good luck with your mission there. Manufacturers won't be uninstalling Gapps on their phones. Although with the Huawei situation they could be shipping phones without Gapps but getting a Huawei would just be ironic. You might be interested in the Liberm 5 when it comes out. I don't know much about it but it's not going to be based on Android, rather Linux. It is a privacy based phone too, but at this point it's not ready for the market. So yeah, if you really want privacy you will need to flash a ROM. Try to get a ROM that is super popular so that it has a lot of support, and try to get a phone that they reccommend so that it works best.

I figured as much. And I just read the officially supported list at LineageOS (the CyanogenMod continuation) that shows them dropping device support like dead flies.

Seriously, we either have to sign up for Apple or Google's cloud? And we can't run our devices with no cloud? I didn't sign up for this.

 

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Just find any phone with an unlockable bootloader and that has an official LineageOS branch 

The whole point of this post was that I shouldn't have to do this. There should be at least one non-Chinese OEM that's selling a non-Googled device.

[dizmo]

14 minutes ago, dabockster said:

I figured as much. And I just read the officially supported list at LineageOS (the CyanogenMod continuation) that shows them dropping device support like dead flies.

Seriously, we either have to sign up for Apple or Google's cloud? And we can't run our devices with no cloud? I didn't sign up for this.

 

The whole point of this post was that I shouldn't have to do this. There should be at least one non-Chinese OEM that's selling a non-Googled device.

You are in a very, very small potion of people that would want such a thing. That's why no one offers it. It's not financially viable.

You're more than welcome to buy a phone that doesn't have smartphone features. No one's forcing you to.

People like you have always confused me. I'm sure whatever you're doing in private isn't that interesting that they'd be combing through it all. If you're that worried about someone else finding out what you do, it's probably something you shouldn't be doing in the first place.

[Roswell]

Using Android without play services would be a nightmare. You'd basically be unable to use most mainstream apps.

[Commodus]

Buy a Huawei Mate 30 and you'll go without Google apps as a matter of course!  After that,  you're more likely to go without Google on China-oriented phone models (not just a Huawei/Xiaomi/etc. phone, but one meant for the China market), but that brings its own complications with network support.

[dabockster]

On 1/21/2020 at 7:42 PM, dizmo said:

You are in a very, very small potion of people that would want such a thing. That's why no one offers it. It's not financially viable.

Excuse me? I know a ton of people in my community who would be interested in a phone like that. They want privacy but no one will take the risk and offer it.

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You're more than welcome to buy a phone that doesn't have smartphone features. No one's forcing you to.

Tell that to my boss, community members, volunteers, union organizers, etc. who all insist on using smartphone apps instead of calling and texting people.

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People like you have always confused me. I'm sure whatever you're doing in private isn't that interesting that they'd be combing through it all. If you're that worried about someone else finding out what you do, it's probably something you shouldn't be doing in the first place.

I don't want to start the whole "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" argument. I just want to find a phone that doesn't have a bunch of hands up in my private business.

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I'm sure whatever you're doing in private isn't that interesting that they'd be combing through it all.

Taking the bait for a second, those circumstances can change very fast.

[dizmo]

16 minutes ago, dabockster said:

Excuse me? I know a ton of people in my community who would be interested in a phone like that. They want privacy but no one will take the risk and offer it.

Tell that to my boss, community members, volunteers, union organizers, etc. who all insist on using smartphone apps instead of calling and texting people.

I don't want to start the whole "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" argument. I just want to find a phone that doesn't have a bunch of hands up in my private business.

Taking the bait for a second, those circumstances can change very fast.

You know the saying. Birds of a feather flock together. It's not surprising that you've managed to find people with similar views to you. That's what most people do.

However, you are in a very small niche, and simple numbers prove that; the millions upon millions upon millions of people that buy phones with GApps and simply don't care.

Yes, those people use those apps. Surprise. That just shows you're in the minority, no? You also don't have to put your personal information into your phone. You can simply make an email address that's just for that device, not download any of the apps, and go from there.

 

[Donut417]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:25 PM, dabockster said:

The whole point of this post was that I shouldn't have to do this. There should be at least one non-Chinese OEM that's selling a non-Googled device.

Well at one point Microsoft and Blackberry and Palm were contendors in the market. Guess what? They lost. Blackberry makes Android devices, Palms's OS was sold off to someone and Microsoft gave up because know one wanted to devolop apps for their platform. 

 

Eaither way all companies follow whats hot/ whats selling. Apple was the first to offer services and such with the iPhone and thats plan every one followed pretty much. Companies are not going to make devices that one a small percentage of people are going to buy. Its not profitable for them to do so. So those people are left out in the cold. 

[kokakolia]

On 1/22/2020 at 3:26 AM, dabockster said:

Hey all,
 

Is there a mainstream-ish phone that ships without GApps (Amazon doesn't count)? I'm looking for all the privacy benefits of custom roms but with actual OEM support (rather than sniffing around XDA for updates and patches).

Just get an iPhone? You don't have to buy the latest model. Just get a used iPhone 7 or 8. Although it looks like support for the iPhone 7 should end in about 1~2 years...

 

Apple is better than Android for privacy and support. But it's not without concerns.

 

The thing is, any app you install on your smartphone has the potential to go through your contacts and track your location. You can certainly switch a few settings on and off. But how confident are you about the settings taking effect? And you're on the money with the cloud services and account required to use your phone. 

 

Maybe you're better off using some cheap burner flip phone with a basic OS. Or flash your own Android ROM and side-load apps without going through the Playstore. 

[nobodywasishere]

On 1/21/2020 at 9:26 PM, dabockster said:

Hey all,
 

Is there a mainstream-ish phone that ships without GApps (Amazon doesn't count)? I'm looking for all the privacy benefits of custom roms but with actual OEM support (rather than sniffing around XDA for updates and patches).

OnePlus is your best bet. While they do not come without GApps out of the box, OnePlus does not void your warranty by using a custom rom, and they also have a program where they send devices to developers to port roms. Get a OnePlus 3/3T/5/5T and put LineageOS 16.0 without GApps and use F-Droid as your app store and you'll be golden.

 

On 1/21/2020 at 10:25 PM, dabockster said:

I figured as much. And I just read the officially supported list at LineageOS (the CyanogenMod continuation) that shows them dropping device support like dead flies.

Seriously, we either have to sign up for Apple or Google's cloud? And we can't run our devices with no cloud? I didn't sign up for this.

 

The whole point of this post was that I shouldn't have to do this. There should be at least one non-Chinese OEM that's selling a non-Googled device.

LineageOS device support relies on unpaid volunteers. LineageOS also only officially supports the latest two versions of Android (currently LineageOS 15.1 (Android 8.1) and LineageOS 16.0 (Android 9.0)). The devices you see on LineageOS's website are ones that were either only supported on 14.1 or below, or the developer simply moved on. If you look at https://www.lineageoslog.com/ you can see devices have been consistently added for the past while.

 

On 1/23/2020 at 1:55 AM, Vitamanic said:

Using Android without play services would be a nightmare. You'd basically be unable to use most mainstream apps.

I'm not experiencing a nightmare. In fact, some apps that didn't work with GApps now work without it (and using Aurora store to obtain the APKs), like Netflix and Disney+. Google Maps also still works. Granted there are a lot more that don't, I don't use those apps nor do I have the desire to, and not having GApps is worth more to me than having those apps.

[Rhyn]

Yea I'd probably grab a One Plus device and just flash lineage os to it without G-Apps.  You could also do this with a pixel device as they'll probably be supported by Lineage for a long time, although it would be ironic to daily a pixel without google apps.

I did this back in December with a nexus 6p and it isn't bad living without google apps.  It's actually quite liberating as you don't worry about lack of privacy with google and don't spend any time on youtube on the go, which was a huge problem for me.  Only downside is that most of the maps options out there aside from google or apple maps are terrible.  I would recommend using at least google maps because otherwise oof.

[Darkseth]

On 2/1/2020 at 12:06 AM, dabockster said:

Excuse me? I know a ton of people in my community who would be interested in a phone like that. They want privacy but no one will take the risk and offer it.

And out of every single Smartphone Customer in this whole World, how much % is your Community?

 

You joined a Community with the same interests than you. No wonder, they have the same Interest. Because that's what community means.

But how many are they? 10? 20? 50?
Out of more than 1 BILLION Users out there.
 

That doesn't change the Fact, that it's such a small Number of People, that it's not worth making phones without GApps just for you.

 

Even worse, they would risk that "normal" People without much knowledge go into the store, buy this because it looks nice, and then are pissed off because nothing works, and they can't Download whatsapp.

They will return it, and buy a Phone from a different Company. Or go back to Apple, because "everything works there".

 

They would lose more customers, than they actually win over. By far.

[dabockster]

On 2/17/2020 at 10:16 AM, Rhyn said:

Yea I'd probably grab a One Plus device and just flash lineage os to it without G-Apps.

I'm US based, so using Chinese tech over here isn't a good idea at the moment.

On 2/17/2020 at 11:08 AM, Darkseth said:

Even worse, they would risk that "normal" People without much knowledge go into the store, buy this because it looks nice, and then are pissed off because nothing works, and they can't Download whatsapp.

They will return it, and buy a Phone from a different Company. Or go back to Apple, because "everything works there".

 

They would lose more customers, than they actually win over. By far.

Again, US based. We don't use Whatsapp over here. And people over here are starting to get mad at Apple for making expensive phones. So I think a new competitor would work over here.

[kirashi]

1 hour ago, dabockster said:

I'm US based, so using Chinese tech over here isn't a good idea at the moment.

 

Um... You do realize that the bootcode at the hardware level is unchangeable and comes from wherever the device was made, right? To be clear, I have nothing against your desire for privacy, but if you're using a chip manufactured by anyone other than yourself, there is no way to verify it isn't siphoning off your data.

[Donut417]

7 hours ago, dabockster said:

So I think a new competitor would work over here.

Microsoft, Blackberry, and Palm all tried to compete here. They all failed. Microsoft killed WIndows Mobile, Blackberry hasnt been relavent in years and Palm went under if I recall correctly. Google and Apple own the market, I dont think you really understand how difficult it would be for another company to enter. 

[Commodus]

5 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Microsoft, Blackberry, and Palm all tried to compete here. They all failed. Microsoft killed WIndows Mobile, Blackberry hasnt been relavent in years and Palm went under if I recall correctly. Google and Apple own the market, I dont think you really understand how difficult it would be for another company to enter. 

This is pretty much it, @dabockster -- there are huge hurdles with app ecosystems and interface experiences that a newcomer would have to clear to stand a chance.  And it would have to be a giant newcomer, maybe even larger than Huawei.  Here's what that newcomer would effectively have to do:

 

1. Offer a dramatically better phone experience (i.e. not just "it's like X, but with live tiles").

2. Spend several billion dollars to guarantee that most major apps are available for years.

3. Guarantee that your flagship phone models will always be available on major carriers in key areas.

4. Commit a large portion of your energy to the project for the long haul.

 

Microsoft, BlackBerry, Palm, all of them failed on one or more of these points.  Palm had a great foundation in webOS and was early enough for apps to not be as much of a problem, but the Sprint exclusive, Verizon's initial snub and HP's lack of commitment doomed webOS phones.  BlackBerry didn't really fare well on any of those points.

 

And Microsoft?  If you want to simplify its problems, it's that it took a half-hearted approach to everything.  Windows Phone wasn't a revolution, despite the early claims.  Microsoft spent money securing apps, but not for enough of those apps and not for long enough.  The company had a horribly inconsistent carrier strategy that made it virtually impossible to stick with Windows Phone/Mobile, at least within the same device class, unless you switched carriers.  And crucially, Microsoft always treated Windows Phone and Mobile like side projects.  If a tech giant decides to develop its own mobile OS, it needs to treat that OS as a major focus at the company for at least the next several years.

[Lord Vile]

13 hours ago, dabockster said:

I'm US based, so using Chinese tech over here isn't a good idea at the moment.

Again, US based. We don't use Whatsapp over here. And people over here are starting to get mad at Apple for making expensive phones. So I think a new competitor would work over here.

Why don’t people use WhatsApp over there?

 

Also Apple don’t make ludicrously expensive phones, that crown belongs to Samsung. 
 

thirdly you don’t have to sign in to iCloud you can literally turn it off. You have to sign up, you don’t have to use it, also safari limits how much you’re tracked 

[Zando_]

On 1/21/2020 at 9:25 PM, dabockster said:

Seriously, we either have to sign up for Apple or Google's cloud?

If you want to install apps you need an AppleID due to how Apple's App Store works. But you can disable iCloud and all sortsa stuff. Hell you can sign in, download your apps, then just sign back out again if you're worried. Or, you can sign in with your AppleID only for the App Store, that and the iCloud sync stuff are separate, independent sections. Telemetry is also anonymized IIRC, and it's opt-in in the first place, it asks you when you first set up your iPhone if you want to send info to Apple or not, and then if you choose yes, if you want to allow app developers to access that or no. 

It's not that hard to use an iPhone without cloud services. IDK Androids though, but I think you can do it similarly, though ofc Google has their fingers in everything unless you run custom ROMs. 

[Rhyn]

14 hours ago, dabockster said:

I'm US based, so using Chinese tech over here isn't a good idea at the moment.

Again, US based. We don't use Whatsapp over here. And people over here are starting to get mad at Apple for making expensive phones. So I think a new competitor would work over here.

I'm US based as well so if you wouldn't like to use OnePlus then I would probably go with a google device.  The chips the system is on are still made out of country but you wouldn't be using a phone from a chinese based company and a google device is likely to be supported for a much longer time on lineage or by the rom community as a whole than your average android phone.

[RejZoR]

Just go with an iPhone and ditch everything made by Google. Then install Disconnect Privacy Pro or NextDNS with filter lists coz you'll be amazed how much shit apps come with from Google and Facebook (and many others) that are not even related to Apple in any way. And that's about it. As long as you're in Android ecosystem, you either have all the convenience and nightmare of Google or you sack it all and you basically have a very advanced feature phone that can sort of run Android apps, but in mostly broken form with missing functionality and no auto updating. Also alternate stores are a security nightmare and only few software makers offer APK's directly from their webpage.

 

For as long as Apple will be in a business of selling devices and services, I believe it's a more private option. Google on the other hand is in a business of handing you everything for free and selling your data. Do your math from that.

[Lord Vile]

On 2/20/2020 at 9:17 AM, RejZoR said:

Just go with an iPhone and ditch everything made by Google. Then install Disconnect Privacy Pro or NextDNS with filter lists coz you'll be amazed how much shit apps come with from Google and Facebook (and many others) that are not even related to Apple in any way. And that's about it. As long as you're in Android ecosystem, you either have all the convenience and nightmare of Google or you sack it all and you basically have a very advanced feature phone that can sort of run Android apps, but in mostly broken form with missing functionality and no auto updating. Also alternate stores are a security nightmare and only few software makers offer APK's directly from their webpage.

 

For as long as Apple will be in a business of selling devices and services, I believe it's a more private option. Google on the other hand is in a business of handing you everything for free and selling your data. Do your math from that.

Apple has been about privacy for some time now, refusing to unlock phones for the FBI in America and the T2 chip, while frustrating, makes your data incredibly secure

[Blademaster91]

Most in the US probably use Facebook Messenger, it doesn't really matter though because WhatsApp is also owned by Facebook.

I use SMS/RCS messaging the most often, and I'd be more concerned with the things Facebook collects which will track you regardless if you use an Iphone or Android device, than worrying about using a Google app. Although I am excited for the Microsoft Surface duo, it would be nice to have an alternative that isn't Google or Apple.

And I understand why OP doesn't want an iPhone, you're paying more for less and it may not make sense unless you're in the ecosystem,and Apple is the company that pushed for $1,000+ phones. Samsung has more expensive phones because they're actually innovating even if some don't see the point in a folding phone.

[RejZoR]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Most in the US probably use Facebook Messenger, it doesn't really matter though because WhatsApp is also owned by Facebook.

I use SMS/RCS messaging the most often, and I'd be more concerned with the things Facebook collects which will track you regardless if you use an Iphone or Android device, than worrying about using a Google app. Although I am excited for the Microsoft Surface duo, it would be nice to have an alternative that isn't Google or Apple.

And I understand why OP doesn't want an iPhone, you're paying more for less and it may not make sense unless you're in the ecosystem,and Apple is the company that pushed for $1,000+ phones. Samsung has more expensive phones because they're actually innovating even if some don't see the point in a folding phone.

It really isn't. They also have 800€ phones that at least get 5+ years of software support and are far from bad or poor. Good luck with that on basically any Android. And people really need to stop with the BS "Apple ecosystem". I have iPhone, Apple Watch and AirPods 2. iPhone, other than being an Apple device is all I use from them. All other apps are what I used on Android before. Apple Watch just happen to have one because I liked its monitoring features. AirPods 2, I actually use 99% of the time on Windows 10 computers and 1% on iPhone.

[Lord Vile]

4 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Most in the US probably use Facebook Messenger, it doesn't really matter though because WhatsApp is also owned by Facebook.

I use SMS/RCS messaging the most often, and I'd be more concerned with the things Facebook collects which will track you regardless if you use an Iphone or Android device, than worrying about using a Google app. Although I am excited for the Microsoft Surface duo, it would be nice to have an alternative that isn't Google or Apple.

And I understand why OP doesn't want an iPhone, you're paying more for less and it may not make sense unless you're in the ecosystem,and Apple is the company that pushed for $1,000+ phones. Samsung has more expensive phones because they're actually innovating even if some don't see the point in a folding phone.

You say that like the iPhone isn't the best phone on the market. best overall camera, great battery, best interal spec by a mile, best software support by even more miles, great customer service, they hold value well and have features like imessage (which you don't seem to get probably cos you've never used it) and faceID which destroys anything android has in terms of security.