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huilun02

HD600 or HD6XX?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

My first headphone that did not sound like crap (or rather, revealed to me that there are lots of crap out there), is the Philips SHP9500.

 

I thought it was so good, that it would not be possible for any significant improvement. I bought another as a spare. Although I could tell something was wrong with the high treble (sharp peak) and the bass was lackluster with sub bass almost entirely rolled off.

 

So I upgraded to the Fidelio X2HR. Wow I should not have bought that second SHP9500. All the missing bass is back. The treble is fixed. The sounds are more spaced out which I really dig (is this called soundstage? or is this the sound being V shaped? Idk) Most importantly, it seems I can now discern extra detail in the sounds that I had not previously known existed (is this called "revealing", or coloration? Idk) Again I do not think there would be something out there that would bring significant improvements. And again from simple comparison from what I have previously used, I can tell that the mids of the X2HR is more laid back (or not as "present"? Idk) I wish for the mids to be stronger again but without sacrificing the spacious soundstage.

 

So I bought the acclaimed Amazon HD599SE for $100 that supposedly were worth $200 and everyone seems to worship Senheiser. Maybe it would be an upgrade? But I was let down... 

Dont get me wrong its not a bad headphone and it is definitely worth the $100 I spent on it. However it sounded just like my X2HR without the specious soundstage. The bass is a step down, lacking depth. The mids are more "present" but not by a lot. Music sounded boring in comparison to the X2HR. The build quality doesnt hold a candle to the X2HR. It is less comfortable due to the clamp and stiffer pads, although I would not call the design bad in any way.

 

So I am confused. Should I try another Senheiser? Should I even continue the search any more? Have I hit hard into diminishing returns? Now I am looking at the HD600 and HD6XX (which is basically a HD650, Senhaiser admitted it themselves) with the opportunity to get either at the same price. I have done a lot of browsing and watching of video comparisons. They all say the 650 is darker, but with better bass and soundstage. They say the 600 is more 'neutral' and revealing, and as such is not as 'fun' for casual listening especially with bad accompanying equipment and imperfections in recording. They say the 600 is better as a 'reference' and 650 better for enjoying music. But then they also say both models largely sound the same.

 

As you might be able to tell, I am no true audiophile. Although I would really like to get the most out of the music I listen to. I want to hear all the details possible from the recording, just as how they were recorded and intended to sound. I want to lose myself in beautiful music. However I am worried that I am heading the wrong direction. Is the search for a more accurate sounds, just going to end up sounding boring? Maybe what have observed to like is actually coloration instead of accuracy? I am unable to identify my preference, and need help so I dont take the wrong turn. I dont want to waste money on something that turns out to be a sidegrade for me. Because I know this is an expensive 'hobby'

 

Please keep your recommendation confined to the HD600 and HD6XX, unless you have determined that there is something of similar price that will be better for me. And also please no blind recommendations based on branding bias, generalized ratings, or someone else's preferences. Because I know that at the end of this road the 'perfect' set differs from person to person due to variables in ear shape, experience, music genre, and perception. I am more of a specialist in smartphone selection, and as a helper in the Phones subforum it is super apparent to me how a lot of people who appear to help are in fact just pushing an agenda based on their personal bias and preferences.

 

Sorry for the wall of text. Sound signature of headphones are just... not as simple or easy to describe. Which is why I have written detailed observations about my 'journey' in the headphone world.

 

Hope you are able to help. Thank you :)


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

Please keep your recommendation confined to the HD600 and HD650, unless you have determined that there is something of similar price that will be better for me.

What about the same, but for less?

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx

 

It's a HD650, but for about half the price of amazon currently. I currently own these, and although these would be considered my first true "audiophile" headphone (as opposed to the HD518's) so I dont have experience with other headphones or DAC/AMp systems, I really like them. I've been able to notice detail in music that I've never noticed before. 

20181002_191452.thumb.jpg.79e338bee05c7017fe504d63e5ecf82a.jpg


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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, TVwazhere said:

What about the same, but for less?

https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-sennheiser-hd6xx

 

It's a HD650, but for about half the price of amazon currently. I currently own these, and although these would be considered my first true "audiophile" headphone (as opposed to the HD518's) so I dont have experience with other headphones or DAC/AMp systems, I really like them. I've been able to notice detail in music that I've never noticed before. 

 

Yes I am actually deliberating between the 600 and 6XX. Its just the the 6XX are 650's, and I have gone through so many reviews comparing the 600 vs 650 that I might as well just call it the 650. I have edited my post to say that I am choosing between the 600 and 6XX.

 

I can get either for the same price. I know the 650 is newer than the 600 and it was meant to be priced higher.


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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I also have the 650, paired with the Schiit stack (I have the magni 2 uber and modi 2 uber). While your motherboard is likely to power these fine, you will be able to push them much harder with a dedicated amp.

 

Aside from the headphones, even though you specifically asked to keep it between 600 vs 6xx... Have you ventured into "chi-fi" headphones at all? I recently picked up the KZ-ZS10 Pro off amazon and have been blown away by the price/performance of these in-ears. The portability is another huge benefit as I take them to and from work all the time.

 

I do not have experience with the 600, but I am a fan of the open back 650/6xx. The breathability of the headphones means you can keep them on for longer periods of time compared to closed-back, however I also have the Sennheiser 280PRO headphones, which are closed back and provide a lot more bass if that's something you're into. Ultimately if I were in your shoes, I'd get the 6xx over the 600.

 

I have a photo of the Schiit stack + my IEM's I'll try to attach here in a few.

 

Spoiler

IMG_20200105_194958.jpg

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, NinJake said:

I also have the 650, paired with the Schiit stack (I have the magni 2 uber and modi 2 uber). While your motherboard is likely to power these fine, you will be able to push them much harder with a dedicated amp.

 

Aside from the headphones, even though you specifically asked to keep it between 600 vs 6xx... Have you ventured into "chi-fi" headphones at all? I recently picked up the KZ-ZS10 Pro off amazon and have been blown away by the price/performance of these in-ears. The portability is another huge benefit as I take them to and from work all the time.

 

I do not have experience with the 600, but I am a fan of the open back 650/6xx. The breathability of the headphones means you can keep them on for longer periods of time compared to closed-back, however I also have the Sennheiser 280PRO headphones, which are closed back and provide a lot more bass if that's something you're into. Ultimately if I were in your shoes, I'd get the 6xx over the 600.

 

I have a photo of the Schiit stack + my IEM's I'll try to attach here in a few.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

IMG_20200105_194958.jpg

I apprecaite your reply. But I am only considering open back over-ear headphones. No IEMs. I am very well aware of the difference between open and closed back. And even more aware that IEMs are a completely different beast and are not a substitute for full sized headphones.

 

And that you are recommending the 650/6XX over something that you have not yet used. There is no weight to this recommendation?

 

I am buying just for listening at home. I do not like dead silence or a claustrophobic sounds. No reason for any sound isolation. I prefer airy sounding music that blends into the background noise. I use with a dedicated dac/amp so it should not matter if music is played off a potato or a million dollar DAP.


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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1 minute ago, huilun02 said:

And that you are recommending the 650/6XX over something that you have not yet used. There is no weight to this recommendation?

I don't plan on buying the 600. I would have purchased the 600 over the 650 otherwise. My recommendation is the 650 personally, only because the "flat, monitor-like" response of the 600 is better suited to people who work with DAWs and in the music industry. For a normal listening session, the warmth of the 650 is a huge benefit to me in my opinion. I'm just giving you my 2 cents, in that I've been extremely satisfied with the 650.

 

It's worth noting that there are other headphones with a wider soundstage that are not the 600 or the 650. The issue is you can't have it all!

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, NinJake said:

...because the "flat, monitor-like" response of the 600 is better suited to people who work with DAWs and in the music industry.

There are lots of comments in reviews saying that the 600 and 650 sound by and large the same. That the differences are more of a minor nuance and that both are very well enjoyable regardless of preference for a more critical analytical listening or just casual listening. I dont know if that is true. Maybe if someone who have used both could attest...

 

5 minutes ago, NinJake said:

 For a normal listening session, the warmth of the 650 is a huge benefit to me in my opinion. I'm just giving you my 2 cents, in that I've been extremely satisfied with the 650.

Preference for that warmth is very much subjective. Some prefer not to have it for normal listening. The recommendation based on your satisfaction is fair enough. Although it still begs the question if the 600 or 6XX will be the better buy for me.

 

8 minutes ago, NinJake said:

It's worth noting that there are other headphones with a wider soundstage that are not the 600 or the 650. The issue is you can't have it all!

Yes. There is no perfect set that has it all. But that does not mean there is no 'best' based on personal preferences. A set that has a single flaw could very well be absolutely perfect for someone who does not percieve the flaw, or maybe even considers the flaw to be a feature. I am not going for the absolute widest soundstage and ditch every other important qualitative aspect. Hence I am confining my choice to just the HD600 and HD6XX unless someone knows of a particular alternative that is in the same price range.


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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If your into bass or subbass all I'm going to say the 600 and 650 might dissapoint. The650 does get better in that respect with tubes.  The 660 is a little better than the other 2 in that respect. As it has better extentsion and is pretty easy to drive. Impedance is also a funny thing. While both the 600 and  the 650 are rated at 300 ohms in the bass to subbasss regionthere is a significant spike in impedance which is why they perform so well with tubes or higher end amps. 

 

I'm no sennheiser fanboy though. If your into open back headphones with bass beyerdynamics or planar headphones might be up your alley instead.

 


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An alternative I can reccomend is the he 400i or dt 880 600 ohm


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Have you tried audio-technica's opened back options? I don't think you're going to get the soundstage you're looking for out of an HD600 series Sennheiser.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
53 minutes ago, rice guru said:

If your into bass or subbass all I'm going to say the 600 and 650 might dissapoint...

 

I'm no sennheiser fanboy though. If your into open back headphones with bass beyerdynamics or planar headphones might be up your alley instead.

I'd say I'm no bass head. I dont even listen to dubstep or anything indicative of an edgelord. Although I would not want to be short-changed from the bass that is intended to be heard.

 

Would you say that the X2HR is bass heavy? Is it warm sounding compared to the 600/650?

 

50 minutes ago, rice guru said:

An alternative I can reccomend is the he 400i or dt 880 600 ohm

How do they compare to the X2HR?


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
8 minutes ago, ShearMe said:

Have you tried audio-technica's opened back options? I don't think you're going to get the soundstage you're looking for out of an HD600 series Sennheiser.

Have not tried or considered those yet. I dont have the money to buy all of their open back headphones. Have you used any in particular to compare to the X2HR?


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, huilun02 said:

I'd say I'm no bass head. I dont even listen to dubstep or anything indicative of an edgelord. Although I would not want to be short-changed from the bass that is intended to be heard.

 

Would you say that the X2HR is bass heavy? Is it warm sounding compared to the 600/650?

 

How do they compare to the X2HR?

The he400ihas similar width in terms of soundstage. Very detailed . Nice mids presence. The bass is linear not too boosted but very much present when needed but not as emphasized as the Fidelios. 

The Fidelios are on the bass heavy side of things and hey! There is nothing wrong with being a bit of a bass head. But does make things a little harder as open backs are harder to make bass heavy. 

The 880 is also tone down but you gain treble detail soundstage is also similar and better imaging as well as gain some of the mids back. The bass isn't the emphasis but to me the better alternatives to the HD 600 and 650. For the signature you are looking for


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 AKG y50bt,Sennheiser HD 4.40

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4 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Have not tried or considered those yet. I dont have the money to buy all of their open back headphones. Have you used any in particular to compare to the X2HR?

Close bet would be the ATH-R70X

 

 

output.png

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53 minutes ago, ShearMe said:

Close bet would be the ATH-R70X

 

 

output.png

From what I've heard of the r70x it sounds closer to a hd600 with more soundstage than a Fidelio x2.


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 AKG y50bt,Sennheiser HD 4.40

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4 minutes ago, rice guru said:

From what I've heard of the r70x it sounds closer to a hd600 with more soundstage than a Fidelio x2.

They are all close with the exception of bass drop off. Open back audio-technicas tend to have a damn good soundstage so I was surprise no one mentioned them in any of this guy's threads.

2020-01-17 17_28_45-#bot_measurebaiting - Discord.jpg

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51 minutes ago, ShearMe said:

They are all close with the exception of bass drop off. Open back audio-technicas tend to have a damn good soundstage so I was surprise no one mentioned them in any of this guy's threads.

2020-01-17 17_28_45-#bot_measurebaiting - Discord.jpg

Personally just forgot about them but they also lack bass. Generally. Especially coming from a Fidelio


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My portable setup: fiio Q1 mk2, fiio ubtr, fiio btr1k,fiio btr5---> Tin T2,Tin t3,Tin t4, QKZ VK4, Koss ksc 75,Blon 03 , Vido

 AKG y50bt,Sennheiser HD 4.40

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@huilun02 You will only truly know your preferences once you've tried stuff for yourself. There's no way around it. You don't need to listen to a bunch of different sound signatures, but if you were to, let's say, try Beyer headphones and end up hating the treble and sibilance they come with, you'd know what to scratch off from your list (bright headphones in this case). That's my case, so I used as an example.

 

Among the options you've mentioned, I have the 6XX, but never tried the 600. The 6XX will be a tad brighter than the super neutral 600. Take a look at the Meze Classics 99. The sound was, hum... different, but enjoyable. I returned the one I bought some time ago because of lack of comfort. My ears are so freaking sensitive that if they touch much on circumaural pads or the driver in the inner section, it's a big no go for me. I'll give my thumbs up to the 6XX. They scale VERY well with good amps (so does the 600). Get a JDS Atom and a budget dac like the Topping D10 or SMSL M100 and you are set for good.

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3 hours ago, ShearMe said:

They are all close with the exception of bass drop off. Open back audio-technicas tend to have a damn good soundstage so I was surprise no one mentioned them in any of this guy's threads.

2020-01-17 17_28_45-#bot_measurebaiting - Discord.jpg

also this chart is very odd...


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CPU : ryzen 3600x  Motherboard: b350 PC mate RAM:16 GB ddr4 corsair lpx GPU: gtx 1070 6gb Case:phanteks p400 

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My portable setup: fiio Q1 mk2, fiio ubtr, fiio btr1k,fiio btr5---> Tin T2,Tin t3,Tin t4, QKZ VK4, Koss ksc 75,Blon 03 , Vido

 AKG y50bt,Sennheiser HD 4.40

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Posted · Original PosterOP

After much deliberation and checking of reviews, I might get the HE 4XX.

Seems it still has a good soundstage and the mids are more present without having vocals speaking right into my ear. Sound is overall warm but detailed.

The bass will be less meaty but all reviewers confirm the bass is still all there. Just that the speed of the planmag drivers will reveal more detail in the bass and it will sound different.

 

Beyerdynamics seem to have a reputation for being brighter with murderous sibilance. I dont think I fall into their target audience.

 

This will be my first pair of planar magnetic headphones, as well as being the first that accepts balanced input. It seems to work in a very different way to end up competing very closely with the X2HR in terms of being 'fun' headphones in the same price range. At the very least it has been acclaimed to punch above its asking price, and for a Hifiman seems to be built well enough to not disappoint me like the HD599SE did.

 

Can anyone see the price on Massdrop? The site seems to have turned for the worst. Its $170 on Amazon. Should I wait for a sale or price drop if one is bound to happen soon?


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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7 hours ago, ShearMe said:

Why?

The Fidelios to me aren't that close in frequency response may I ash where you got that chart? I need to cross reference


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CPU : ryzen 3600x  Motherboard: b350 PC mate RAM:16 GB ddr4 corsair lpx GPU: gtx 1070 6gb Case:phanteks p400 

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My portable setup: fiio Q1 mk2, fiio ubtr, fiio btr1k,fiio btr5---> Tin T2,Tin t3,Tin t4, QKZ VK4, Koss ksc 75,Blon 03 , Vido

 AKG y50bt,Sennheiser HD 4.40

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50 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

After much deliberation and checking of reviews, I might get the HE 4XX.

Seems it still has a good soundstage and the mids are more present without having vocals speaking right into my ear. Sound is overall warm but detailed.

The bass will be less meaty but all reviewers confirm the bass is still all there. Just that the speed of the planmag drivers will reveal more detail in the bass and it will sound different.

 

Beyerdynamics seem to have a reputation for being brighter with murderous sibilance. I dont think I fall into their target audience.

 

This will be my first pair of planar magnetic headphones, as well as being the first that accepts balanced input. It seems to work in a very different way to end up competing very closely with the X2HR in terms of being 'fun' headphones in the same price range. At the very least it has been acclaimed to punch above its asking price, and for a Hifiman seems to be built well enough to not disappoint me like the HD599SE did.

 

Can anyone see the price on Massdrop? The site seems to have turned for the worst. Its $170 on Amazon. Should I wait for a sale or price drop if one is bound to happen soon?

It is still a $130 if this is your first .assdrop order check your email for $25 off coupon. Also I really reccomend upgrading your amp to at least a schiit heresy, jds labs atom, or monoprice liquid spark.

Screenshot_20200118-091504.jpg


***FEEL FREE TO DM ME QUESTIONS ABOUT MY GEAR IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR JUST CURIOUS***

CPU : ryzen 3600x  Motherboard: b350 PC mate RAM:16 GB ddr4 corsair lpx GPU: gtx 1070 6gb Case:phanteks p400 

Storage:x1 280 gb kingston ssd x1 1tb WD blue hdd x1 2tb seagate barraccuda 

 PSU:650 GQ Cooling:be quite! BK009 Keyboard:ducky one 2 rgb full sized Mouse:G502, Model o Operating System:win 10

Desktop audio gear: topping d10 --->  monolith Cavelli Liquid Spark---> Beyerdynamic dt 990 , Sennheiser Hd 58x, Hifiman HE4xx, AKG k240, AKG k52

Speaker Setup: Topping PA3--->Micca RB42

My portable setup: fiio Q1 mk2, fiio ubtr, fiio btr1k,fiio btr5---> Tin T2,Tin t3,Tin t4, QKZ VK4, Koss ksc 75,Blon 03 , Vido

 AKG y50bt,Sennheiser HD 4.40

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, rice guru said:

It is still a $130 if this is your first .assdrop order check your email for $25 off coupon. Also I really reccomend upgrading your amp to at least a schiit heresy, jds labs atom, or monoprice liquid spark.

Sweet! I got a $20 off as my first purchase. Hopefully I dont get a scuffed unit which some some reviews complained about. Its Chinese so out could very well be a bad unit off the production line instead of being a return unit. Idk

 

I'll get a Magni 3 if my E10K dont do it justice.


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

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36 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Sweet! I got a $20 off as my first purchase. Hopefully I dont get a scuffed unit which some some reviews complained about. Its Chinese so out could very well be a bad unit off the production line instead of being a return unit. Idk

 

I'll get a Magni 3 if my E10K dont do it justice.

the magni 3 isn't very good i reccomend going with one of the 3 i recommended also the he 4xx does require a break in period. it wont sound right at first but wuth more use it will get better over a short period it was about a week of use for me or about 10 hours.


***FEEL FREE TO DM ME QUESTIONS ABOUT MY GEAR IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR JUST CURIOUS***

CPU : ryzen 3600x  Motherboard: b350 PC mate RAM:16 GB ddr4 corsair lpx GPU: gtx 1070 6gb Case:phanteks p400 

Storage:x1 280 gb kingston ssd x1 1tb WD blue hdd x1 2tb seagate barraccuda 

 PSU:650 GQ Cooling:be quite! BK009 Keyboard:ducky one 2 rgb full sized Mouse:G502, Model o Operating System:win 10

Desktop audio gear: topping d10 --->  monolith Cavelli Liquid Spark---> Beyerdynamic dt 990 , Sennheiser Hd 58x, Hifiman HE4xx, AKG k240, AKG k52

Speaker Setup: Topping PA3--->Micca RB42

My portable setup: fiio Q1 mk2, fiio ubtr, fiio btr1k,fiio btr5---> Tin T2,Tin t3,Tin t4, QKZ VK4, Koss ksc 75,Blon 03 , Vido

 AKG y50bt,Sennheiser HD 4.40

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