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Phill104

The end of lightning is nigh, possibly.

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Europe tried this some years back as well. Out of fear for a regulation most companies agreed back then to use micro-usb. However Europe isn't happy with the current situation (usb-c, micro-usb,lightning,...) understandable. 

 

It could indeed hinder innovation. But not as much as some seem to imply here.

Like someone mentioned here already, it is only about the connector not the standard used with that connector. For example the type-c connector can support multiple standards like thunderbolt,displayport over type c, usb 3 ,usb 3.1 ,....

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2 minutes ago, LeSheen said:

It could indeed hinder innovation. But not as much as some seem to imply here.

Like someone mentioned here already, it is only about the connector not the standard used with that connector. For example the type-c connector can support multiple standards like thunderbolt,displayport over type c, usb 3 ,usb 3.1 ,....

lets not forget the USB Implementers Forum which could be the medium in which a new standard is introduced

 

USB Type Z or something, idk, i dont work in marketing. 

 

the lightning connector is nice, but the adoption isnt great. for the last 3 years or so people have been "predicting" (and by "predict" i mean wild speculation) that apple would give the iphone a USB C interfeace. 

 

but lets be honest here, there is a 50/50 chance wether Apple will just stop using ports instead of moving to USB C. 

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1 hour ago, LeSheen said:

Like someone mentioned here already, it is only about the connector not the standard used with that connector. For example the type-c connector can support multiple standards like thunderbolt,displayport over type c, usb 3 ,usb 3.1 ,....

You're right, but I was trying to work out why you were wrong at the same time.  There is so  much confusion as people keep using the USB protocol interchangeably with the Connector standards. 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Here's an unpopular opinion:

 

USB-C is so confusing with the protocols and such, that if Apple used USB-C it would have to be Apple certified. Thus creating much confusion between USB-C cables and Apple compatible USB-C cables. Since only Apple devices use lightning, there's no confusion at all. 

 

So YAY! Apple...

 

(When my iPhone 7 kicks the bucket, I'll switch over to Android. I ain't spending 700€ on a new iPhone and I ain't gonna miss Lightning...)

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I used to love the lighting port and still do ... but it needs to die. Regardless of whether you agree with the concept of governments forcing this ... I think we can agree that apple needs to sod off with that connector, I mean they already use USB-C for their Macs. 

 

Also Apple please fix the quality of your cables it’s atrocious, the old Magsafe cables, Lightning, earpods... they all break apart faster than any other cable I own.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
42 minutes ago, mr moose said:

You're right, but I was trying to work out why you were wrong at the same time.  There is so  much confusion as people keep using the USB protocol interchangeably with the Connector standards. 

Whatever the protocol or connector there could still be a stifling of innovation. For instance, and it has been argued elsewhere whether this option is right or wrong so we don’t need it again, what if Apple want to have no connector? Maybe they want a really waterproof iPhone that works to -50m, or can build a cheaper phone because there is no connector. Will any ruling force them to have a USB C port against the will of the designer? What if a new flexible pub and screen is designed so we can have a super thin device? Would that be held back because of an EU directive? Does an Apple Watch with a SIM card count as a phone and if so will a USB C connection need to be fitted?
 

For me any change should be consumer driven and not legislative. 

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48 minutes ago, Phill104 said:

Whatever the protocol or connector there could still be a stifling of innovation. For instance, and it has been argued elsewhere whether this option is right or wrong so we don’t need it again, what if Apple want to have no connector? Maybe they want a really waterproof iPhone that works to -50m, or can build a cheaper phone because there is no connector. Will any ruling force them to have a USB C port against the will of the designer? What if a new flexible pub and screen is designed so we can have a super thin device? Would that be held back because of an EU directive? Does an Apple Watch with a SIM card count as a phone and if so will a USB C connection need to be fitted?
 

For me any change should be consumer driven and not legislative. 

This would probably only apply to phones, tablets, cameras, etc which are designed to have a recharge port. If they wanted to go completely port-less then this would not apply to it.

 

It might stifle innovation an extreme small amount but honestly looking at connectors used over the last decade it really hasn't affect innovation yet so why would it in the future. The lightning port has been around for 7-8 years if ports were so important for innovation apple would have already changed it to something new.

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2 hours ago, kokakolia said:

USB-C is so confusing with the protocols and such, that if Apple used USB-C it would have to be Apple certified. Thus creating much confusion between USB-C cables and Apple compatible USB-C cables. Since only Apple devices use lightning, there's no confusion at all. 

dont think anyone uses a older standard than USB 2.0 for their USB C devices, which is also what Apple uses for their lightning connector on their newest device. 

 

if they wont change the USB revision from 2.0 to 3.0 or higher, i dont see the issue. in fact multiple phones use USB 3.0 and newer and i havent heard issues regarding revision compatibility. 

 

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6 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

dont think anyone uses a older standard than USB 2.0 for their USB C devices, which is also what Apple uses for their lightning connector on their newest device. 

 

if they wont change the USB revision from 2.0 to 3.0 or higher, i dont see the issue. in fact multiple phones use USB 3.0 and newer and i havent heard issues regarding revision compatibility. 

 

If Apple wasn't greedy at all, it wouldn't be an issue. They would simply use the same standards as any other brand. 

 

HOWEVER, we're talking about Apple here...

 

So I am certain that Apple would do something funny with the USB-C connection, because of greed. After all, it's our burden as consumers to pay Apple royalties on every charging cable. 

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15 minutes ago, kokakolia said:

If Apple wasn't greedy at all, it wouldn't be an issue. They would simply use the same standards as any other brand. 

 

HOWEVER, we're talking about Apple here...

 

So I am certain that Apple would do something funny with the USB-C connection, because of greed. After all, it's our burden as consumers to pay Apple royalties on every charging cable. 

 

If the EU mandate USB C connectors then apple will just put them on the charger like they did with USB A.   I am not really concerned about that as much as I am about the justification to force a change in the first place.  The EU is claiming that obsolete cables are the reason that so many end up as e-waste.  So if they want to stop that from happening they have to stop cables becoming obsolete.  Forcing everyone to use a single style of cable for eternity is the only way to do that.   So it actually makes more sense to force companies to continue using their existing cables for as a long as possible then switch to a single standard that never changes.    In a sense apple is correct when they say that will stifle innovation. 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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9 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Are the roads owned by the government or by corporations?  Or do you mean the HOAs are owned by corporations?  That would be a potential problem.  An HOA should be owned by the homeowners.  If it isn’t some chicanery has taken place. A government wouldn’t save money because they wouldn’t be able to tax those people for those services.  Apparently the corporation does instead?  So by your description an HOA is at least in some instances actually a tiny corporate government.   That’s more than a little messed up.  Totally illegal where I live.
 

It may be that this is a state or national difference.  
 

In any case it’s irrelevant to USB.

Public roads are government maintained. Here in Michigan some are cities responsibly and others are the county. Some HOAs are ran by corporations, and in some cases they have to maintain the roads. 
 

Also you pay taxes regardless. Here in Michigan the city and county get parts of the property tax. Also organizations like the school district get a chunk as well. HOA or no HOA your still paying taxes. Doesn’t matter if the HOA maintains your street or the city. The government always gets its due.  

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Inb4 next proprietary standard can (in best case scenario) push 60 - 100% more data in the same amount of time - BÄM patented. This is a game where everyone is loosing.

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It would cut a LOT of the waste if when you buy a device, you get a choice of whether to have the charger and/or cable too, So like a simple check box on your order, confirming the charger type, amps etc and the checkbox saying "tick here if you require the charger" instead of it being sent out automatically. The manufacturer could send the devices in the packaging how they do already, but without the charger, and send a load of chargers to the retailer to include as/when required.


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3 hours ago, kokakolia said:

If Apple wasn't greedy at all, it wouldn't be an issue. They would simply use the same standards as any other brand. 

 

HOWEVER, we're talking about Apple here...

 

So I am certain that Apple would do something funny with the USB-C connection, because of greed. After all, it's our burden as consumers to pay Apple royalties on every charging cable. 

My memory is that when lightning came out the other choice was microUSB2 which had big problems.  Lightning was a flat out better standard.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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it would be nice if every one agreed on a standard but im not sure I like it being mandated by a government. On the waste side at least for me I usually keep cables till the die I still have all kinds of old ones floating around that I almost never need. 

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We can't even get a standard for electrical outlets, how do they think this is gonna work?


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6 hours ago, kokakolia said:

If Apple wasn't greedy at all, it wouldn't be an issue. They would simply use the same standards as any other brand. 

 

HOWEVER, we're talking about Apple here...

 

So I am certain that Apple would do something funny with the USB-C connection, because of greed. After all, it's our burden as consumers to pay Apple royalties on every charging cable. 

Remember how Apple switched to all USB-C ports on Mac laptops, and made it a point that you can charge from the USB-C port rather than its earlier proprietary connector?  You can even use a sufficiently powerful external battery to keep a Mac charged now.

 

Remember how Apple switched the iPad Pro to USB-C to ensure broader compatibility with peripherals?

 

Apple likes industry standards -- when it feels they're actually beneficial.  I don't think it felt much of an urge to embrace USB-C on phones because Lightning is smaller, already has a substantial ecosystem and came at a time when people were moving away from wired syncing to the cloud.  I wouldn't mind a move to USB-C myself, but I don't think it'd be the panacea many pretend it would be.

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Apple has been talking about making a phone with no external connections at alll.  This could push them to it.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Something cropped up in my mind, and maybe this would be helpful for others. Electrical connectors are all standardized. However, most of them, if not all of them, were standardized by a non-government body. So... yeah. If countries can agree on which plug to use without the government telling them to, then certainly they can find agreement on which connector to use.

 

I would understand this motion as a strong initiative if there were like 20 standards. But there's only like three tops (USB-C, micro B, and Lightning) in widespread use.

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13 hours ago, mr moose said:

No, you have your opinions and they are not objective.  Your entire argument rests on you believing your opinions are best for everyone.

explain to me how the early 2000s situation with charging cables is better for anyone.

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Era before microUSB was terrible. Because ALL the connectors before microUSB were absolute terrible garbage. Sure having to plug it in certain direction sucks, but that doesn't compare to horrible loose proprietary connectors before where almost everyone I know had to lean the phone on something when laying flat on the surface so it slightly pushed connector up for it to stay connected and charging.

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26 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Era before microUSB was terrible. Because ALL the connectors before microUSB were absolute terrible garbage. Sure having to plug it in certain direction sucks, but that doesn't compare to horrible loose proprietary connectors before where almost everyone I know had to lean the phone on something when laying flat on the surface so it slightly pushed connector up for it to stay connected and charging.

same thing today

 

 

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38 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Era before microUSB was terrible. Because ALL the connectors before microUSB were absolute terrible garbage. Sure having to plug it in certain direction sucks, but that doesn't compare to horrible loose proprietary connectors before where almost everyone I know had to lean the phone on something when laying flat on the surface so it slightly pushed connector up for it to stay connected and charging.

A bit off topic but Mini USB wasn't THAT bad. In some ways I prefer mini USB to micro-USB. 

Micro-USB is REALLY finicky. 
 

16 hours ago, mr moose said:

In the opinion of someone who prefers multiple options and to choose the best one, not so much.

The difference between lightning and USB-C isn't very big. 
If we had a blank slate where no one has any adapters or other devices and individuals had to choose several options:
1. mish-mash of adapters
2. USB-C
3. lightning (with USB-3 support and some other extras it doesn't have)

 

I STRONGLY suspect that option 1 would be universally detested and that there'd be A LOT of indifference between option 2 and 3. 

Forcing one instransigant company to make a relatively minor change is relatively light touch. 


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17 hours ago, xtroria said:

Should apple remove lightning connector? Yes

 

Should it be something that government regulates? NO

 

Please don’t bring some government regulation into something that evolves so quickly

I don't like Government interaction, either, but when manufacturers can't agree on some standards, then Government interaction becomes necessary. Imagine what it would b like if different electric utilities used different outlets inside homes. Or automobile manufacturers had different types of fuel tank ports? It's ridiculous that people have to have multiple charging deevices for their devices.

 

14 hours ago, Kisai said:

 

You don't understand the purpose of a HOA (basically planned neighborhoods, aka gated communities) or Strata councils then. The purpose is not a level of government at the building/block level, but more like a PTA (Parent Teacher association) to ensure that things residents do neither disrupt other residents peaceful enjoyment of their own properties. So that means:

 

- No you can not cut a hole in your building/unit

- No you can not build an extension to your building

- No you can not build a fence between you and your neighbor

- No you can not park on the street. If you can't park in your garage then you can't have the vehicle parked here at all. (To dissuade RV camping.)

 

and so forth. If there is a HOA or a Strata involved, it's likely they own the last 100ft of roads, which happen to be the roads in front of your driveway, so they're not public roads, they're actually private roads with public access, and that's why you can't park on them. There's also the fire safety issues where some of these stupid gated communities have roads that are not wide enough for two vehicles to pass each other.

 

Anyway, they exist so that disputes are handled between neighbors and not taken to court unless things get to the level where law enforcement would need to be used. So for example, is someone operating their home or strata unit as a boarding house? Sorry, that's illegal, and if you don't cease immediately, the HOA/Strata council will move to have you sell your property and GTFO. It happens, but usually not very high profile...

 

HOAs, in theory, are a great idea for protecting property owners from other property owners bring down property values. In actual practice, more often than not, sooner or later, someone will be elected to the board who will seize power and behave like little dictators who think they are God.


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1 minute ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Or automobile manufacturers had different types of fuel tank ports?

You mean like what has happen to electric cars? I have seen 3 separate charging cables at least. Though there adapters that converts between standards. 

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