Security updates for Windows 7 ostensibly end tomorrow, but also officially continue until 2023

[Dirtyshado]

43 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Economies of scale/comparison are more than just the currency conversion

True the scale is bonkers...  its still a huge step up from a country with 3 times the population and economy, and are paying just 9% .

 

Like the german government after converting 65,000 machines. Has over 20,000 Win 7 machines Costing 0.8 million Euros

12.5% of the Australia government after converting 105,000 machines. Has X amount of Win 7 machines. Costing 8.8 Million Euros

 

So its weird, so germany has less computers... or they haven't reported all their agencies.

and if Australia's defence agency is that far behind... how about the largest defence forces in the world.  Is the Pentagon paying billions to keep Win 7 running.

 

So tip of the iceberg of how much money will be spent this year globally on keeping Win 7 (and other obsolete Win servers) running!

[jagdtigger]

5 hours ago, Dirtyshado said:

Costing 8.8 Million Euros

They probably did their homework and come to the conclusion it is cheaper than replacing all their equipment....

[startrekdude]

5 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

They probably did their homework and come to the conclusion it is cheaper than replacing all their equipment....

only in the short term I would think

[jagdtigger]

20 hours ago, leadeater said:

my point is you're telling people it's better to just never update

I dont have to tell them, they will do it on their own following one of the millions of guides out there....

 

  

Just now, startrekdude said:

only in the short term I would think

It depends on how many of their devices are incompatible(actual ones, too slow to run it, etc) with newer OS versions.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

I dont have to tell them, they will do it on their own following one of the millions of guides out there....

 

And billions of guides warn people to keep everything up to date, and often spare no expense at calling out those who hold back on updates due to laziness/paranoia.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

They probably did their homework and come to the conclusion it is cheaper than replacing all their equipment....

Not to mention the cost of retraining employees on how to use the new version.

[startrekdude]

2 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Not to mention the cost of retraining employees on how to use the new version.

 

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

It depends on how many of their devices are incompatible(actual ones, too slow to run it, etc) with newer OS versions.

I still feel that it will cost more in the long run as they will have to update at some point. It may save in the short term but not the long term.

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

 

And billions of guides warn people to keep everything up to date, and often spare no expense at calling out those who hold back on updates due to laziness/paranoia.

Like r=1 users will care about that when pesky updates disrupt their entertainment/relaxation......  

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

I dont have to tell them, they will do it on their own following one of the millions of guides out there...

People also jump in front of cars on purpose, doesn't make it sensible thing to copy though 

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Like r=1 users will care about that when pesky updates disrupt their entertainment/relaxation......  

Set the working hours and actually shutdown once a month, the shutdown option will change to 'Update and Shutdown' when there are updates to install.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

57 minutes ago, startrekdude said:

 

I still feel that it will cost more in the long run as they will have to update at some point. It may save in the short term but not the long term.

The funding may not be available for a long term solution. Not to mention when you have otherwise perfectly good machinery that may cost thousands to millions to replace because they cannot be made compatible with a newer OS, keeping the older OS, either by paying for the updates or as long as it's air gapped, is the most cost effective long term solution.

[startrekdude]

2 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

The funding may not be available for a long term solution. Not to mention when you have otherwise perfectly good machinery that may cost thousands to millions to replace because they cannot be made compatible with a newer OS, keeping the older OS, either by paying for the updates or as long as it's air gapped, is the most cost effective long term solution.

in those cases yes I understand im just saying if you are putting off upgrading there general machine's ones that don't necessarily have a compatibility issue seams like it will cost more and just put off the inevitable.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

1 minute ago, startrekdude said:

in those cases yes I understand im just saying if you are putting off upgrading there general machine's ones that don't necessarily have a compatibility issue seams like it will cost more and just put off the inevitable.

Employee retraining can be very expensive for one employee. If a company has a huge employee base, retraining can be far more expensive than just paying for updates. Redeploying software can also be very expensive compared to just paying for the updates. Granted, paying for updates can't be a long term solution since there are linits to how long paying for updates will be permitted but it still can be a practical option for the short term until a long term solution can become viable. Keep in mind successful businesses didn't become, and stay, successful by being stupid.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Like r=1 users will care about that when pesky updates disrupt their entertainment/relaxation......  

Yes, disruption of entertainment is a higher priority than keeping the operating system secure... excellent logic there, and were you not screaming and bitching that upholding updates is FOR security, which goes against the common sense of computer practices?

If you are that afraid of updates, then run V6 Unix in the massive relic that is the PDP-11. By the sound of things, only that OS will soothe your comical paranoia of dealing with anything brand new.

[Arika]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Set the working hours and actually shutdown once a month, the shutdown option will change to 'Update and Shutdown' when there are updates to install.

The secret to w10 is to shut down each night you're not running something overnight. Doing this I've had exactly 0 updates interrupt anything or had an update brick anything. 

[startrekdude]

15 minutes ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

Keep in mind successful businesses didn't become, and stay, successful by being stupid.

im not saying its stupid or the wrong call, my point is merely that it will cost more in the long term

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Set the working hours and actually shutdown once a month, the shutdown option will change to 'Update and Shutdown' when there are updates to install.

Not really, im short on time so ill make this short, it doesnt work because:

• many ppl wotk in shifts, cant expect them to change that every week
• when ppl hit shutdown they want it to be shutdown at that moment, not after installing updates
• ppl with weak laptops(celeron/pentium/atom/arm cpu, hdd instead of ssd) will always disable that resource hog
• wu is still slow as hell even on a decent cpu and ssd

 

They didnt fixed the underlying issue so attempting to force it actually achieved the reverse what they wanted.

 

11 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

Yes, disruption of entertainment is a higher priority than keeping the operating system secure...

Just try to imagine yourselves into their situation. You got home from work and you are pretty grouchy from all the BS going on at your workplace. You sit down in front of the PC and it starts installing updates for maybe for a few minutes or half an hour. OFC you would be pissed off and you would want to get rid of that annoyance.... Not the best but this is more or less what happens.

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Set the working hours and actually shutdown once a month, the shutdown option will change to 'Update and Shutdown' when there are updates to install.

Or use linux and update 99% of the time even with Kernel updates, without rebooting (though IIRC needs the reboot to do the kernel swap).

 

Really. If your (a companies) update process is not user friendly, I'm not paying for the privilege. This is not open heart surgery, where I'm thankful to be alive. It's like a 5 star restaurant, serve me rubbish or excuses, I'm going elsewhere!

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

4 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Not really, im short on time so ill make this short, it doesnt work because:

• many ppl wotk in shifts, cant expect them to change that every week
• when ppl hit shutdown they want it to be shutdown at that moment, not after installing updates
• ppl with weak laptops(celeron/pentium/atom/arm cpu, hdd instead of ssd) will always disable that resource hog
• wu is still slow as hell even on a decent cpu and ssd

 

They didnt fixed the underlying issue so attempting to force it actually achieved the reverse what they wanted.

Have you never heard of hibernation? That was designed for low-spec systems that lack the components to do a speedy cold boot. So during once a month, initiate an actual shutdown, which will initiate an update as long as it is shut down outside of the wake hours.

 

With the matter of what updates accomplish (something that you have demonstrated a complete refusal to understand), how much of a "resource hog" the update systems are are not relevant to anything at all. Besides, WU takes at an absolute maximum 5 minutes on a Legacy-Pentium-scale system with a 5400RPM HDD, and while big and lengthy updates do happen, they are rare enough to not affect anyone with proper planning.

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Set the working hours and actually shutdown once a month, the shutdown option will change to 'Update and Shutdown' when there are updates to install.

I've heard of WU updating regardless of the working hours set, this might be annoying if someone is expecting 100% reliability from their OS, but I usually just shut down my PC at night or click the "update and shutdown".

[Arika]

27 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I've heard of WU updating regardless of the working hours set, this might be annoying if someone is expecting 100% reliability from their OS, but I usually just shut down my PC at night or click the "update and shutdown".

It downloads, but not installs

[mr moose]

12 hours ago, Dirtyshado said:

True the scale is bonkers...  its still a huge step up from a country with 3 times the population and economy, and are paying just 9% .

 

Like the german government after converting 65,000 machines. Has over 20,000 Win 7 machines Costing 0.8 million Euros

12.5% of the Australia government after converting 105,000 machines. Has X amount of Win 7 machines. Costing 8.8 Million Euros

 

So its weird, so germany has less computers... or they haven't reported all their agencies.

and if Australia's defence agency is that far behind... how about the largest defence forces in the world.  Is the Pentagon paying billions to keep Win 7 running.

 

So tip of the iceberg of how much money will be spent this year globally on keeping Win 7 (and other obsolete Win servers) running!

 

As I said there are too many factors we don't know, yes Australia has more computers in its government* and a much higher cost of business.  As I pointed out simply installing a new network in just one agency in one state can cost up to $100M.   $8.8M is a not unexpected for the whole country. 

 

 

*that require windows 7 for now.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, TechyBen said:

Really. If your (a companies) update process is not user friendly, I'm not paying for the privilege. This is not open heart surgery, where I'm thankful to be alive. It's like a 5 star restaurant, serve me rubbish or excuses, I'm going elsewhere!

Thing is it is user friendly, like I said it's only the obsessive tweakers that get impacted and they are the ones with enough knowledge to not be. If you never shutdown and never reboot your computer, if you never bother to set working hours if you are the former just mentioned, if you never set days to delay updates you are very likely to be impacted. The settings to avoid this are all within 5 clicks and easily found, or just reboot once in a while/manually install the updates when you want them to.

 

It's extremely user friendly, you have to go out of your way to make it not so.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Thing is it is user friendly, like I said it's only the obsessive tweakers that get impacted and they are the ones with enough knowledge to not be. If you never shutdown and never reboot your computer, if you never bother to set working hours if you are the former just mentioned, if you never set days to delay updates you are very likely to be impacted. The settings to avoid this are all within 5 clicks and easily found, or just reboot once in a while/manually install the updates when you want them to.

 

It's extremely user friendly, you have to go out of your way to make it not so.

The thing I don't understand is that there are so many legitimate things to get pissy with MS for,  shit account requirements on initial install or trying to embed onedrive into the OS opr even the failure to read exFAT for god knows what reason, that sort of thing.   Why do people go out of their way to the point of lying about things to make this the hill they wish to die on?

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

many ppl wotk in shifts, cant expect them to change that every week

Would make no actual difference, once a month process and set it to something sensible that will work all the time and combine with common sense computer usage.

 

4 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

when ppl hit shutdown they want it to be shutdown at that moment, not after installing updates

Once a month, you can select 'Shutdown' instead of 'Update and Shutdown' if for some reason shutting down is time sensitive. Do if before you go to bed, it'll be off when it's done and has no impact on you, laptop or desktop. Shutting down is rarely time sensitive, very rarely. We have the ability to sleep devices for a reason i.e. going between lectures.

 

4 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

ppl with weak laptops(celeron/pentium/atom/arm cpu, hdd instead of ssd) will always disable that resource hog

Once a month, you can 100% find a time to do it. I have legit one of the worst laptops possible to own, AMD E2-1800 + 4GB RAM + 4200 RPM HDD and updates are not an issue and it runs Windows 10.

 

4 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

wu is still slow as hell even on a decent cpu and ssd

No, no it isn't.