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Chokez

Which Offlien UPS should i buy for my rig?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Please read the whole post 
I'm running 
i5 6400
ddr3 8+8GB ram 
rx 590 OC edition 
5 cassis fan with
Thermaltake smart se 630W PSU

So the problem is i've been using this 1200va powerguard ups for a year, 2 months age it's started facing this issue.
whenever UPS makes a clicking sound pc restart's, so i was using another 650VA ups for couple of weeks, after couple of weeks later this one is also started facing the same problem.
i know UPS's are faulty now cause whenever spikes UPS used to make clicking sound but now it doesn't.
also if i turn the main power off pc runs on battery, when i turn it back on pc restart's most of the time 
The retailer said UPS is faulty, and someone i know said maybe my PSU's capacitor's are dying,
so which one is it ? 
Also retailer suggested me to buy higher VA than 1200VA, but 1200va is 720W i don't think i need more than that? why UPS's are becoming faulty like that?

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26 minutes ago, Chokez said:

Please read the whole post 
I'm running 
i5 6400
ddr3 8+8GB ram 
rx 590 OC edition 
5 cassis fan with
Thermaltake smart se 630W PSU

So the problem is i've been using this 1200va powerguard ups for a year, 2 months age it's started facing this issue.
whenever UPS makes a clicking sound pc restart's, so i was using another 650VA ups for couple of weeks, after couple of weeks later this one is also started facing the same problem.
i know UPS's are faulty now cause whenever spikes UPS used to make clicking sound but now it doesn't.
also if i turn the main power off pc runs on battery, when i turn it back on pc restart's most of the time 
The retailer said UPS is faulty, and someone i know said maybe my PSU's capacitor's are dying,
so which one is it ? 
Also retailer suggested me to buy higher VA than 1200VA, but 1200va is 720W i don't think i need more than that? why UPS's are becoming faulty like that?

I don’t have a straight answer for you I’m afraid.  Just supposition.  Might be helpful, might not.

 

Most of the time but not all the time says something is sensitive to even very very tiny power changes and the change, however big or small it is, is right on the edge of what it can handle.  I don’t know enough about the internal working of either PSUs or UPSes to tell you what part might be doing it.  “Click” implies some sort of mechanical switch. The retailer might just be trying to up sell you or he might be suggesting a larger UPS because they have a different kind of switch.  


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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What do you have plugged into it other than your tower?

 

On another note, 650va could be pushing it really close. It's not always a 1:1 to wattage. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Vitamanic said:

What do you have plugged into it other than your tower?

 

On another note, 650va could be pushing it really close. It's not always a 1:1 to wattage. 

Nothing just my Monitor and CPU.
And i know 650VA can't handle my rig, if i do some heavy stuff then this 650va one can't handle when power goes off.
But it can backup when i'm idle, so that's why i was using it while another one was faulty.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
22 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The retailer might just be trying to up sell you or he might be suggesting a larger UPS because they have a different kind of switch.

Maybe but i don't know, I just need to know that why is this happening and what is causing that/Making ups faulty. 
I'm afraid that if i buy another one then this one is also gonna start behaving like that after couple of days 😓 
Then this'll be a total waste of money, 

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8 minutes ago, Chokez said:

Maybe but i don't know, I just need to know that why is this happening and what is causing that/Making ups faulty. 
I'm afraid that if i buy another one then this one is also gonna start behaving like that after couple of days 😓 
Then this'll be a total waste of money, 

Maybe ask the retailer exactly why he thinks a bigger PSU will help.  He might hand you a pile of BS, but there will be words in it you can check on the internet.  There are apparently two transitions with a UPS.  Handoff from wall power to battery, and hand back from battery to wall.  It’s reasonable that they would work differently.  It seems to be able to handle the first but not the second.  A partial work around is just assume that the thing can’t deal with hand back and power off your machine before the hand back.  This at least costs nothing.

 

 


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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If I understand it correctly, if your PSU is Active PFC, you need a UPS that is also Active PFC.

 

Sounds like your 1200va UPS is not Active PFC so it cannot provide the "type" of power the PSU needs, and your 650va UPS is Active PFC, but not high enough va to support your max draw.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
49 minutes ago, Scheer said:

If I understand it correctly, if your PSU is Active PFC, you need a UPS that is also Active PFC.

 

Sounds like your 1200va UPS is not Active PFC so it cannot provide the "type" of power the PSU needs, and your 650va UPS is Active PFC, but not high enough va to support your max draw.

No no no not that, My both PSU is Simulated sinewave, 650VA was fine before, but now whenever i hear that clicking sound from UPS pc restarts same ase 1200va one

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I have the exact same problem with my UPS with the additional issue that it overheats and shuts down if I'm playing any games for too long (over 2 hours).

The conclusion I came to is that my UPS is under-powered to drive my system at load. The only solution is to get a bigger UPS.

Additionally, batteries die faster when run above capacity. Also, a good conversion to UPS VA to actual wattage is to multiply it by 0.75. So a 1000VA UPS can supply a 750W load without any issues.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Maybe ask the retailer exactly why he thinks a bigger PSU will help.  He might hand you a pile of BS, but there will be words in it you can check on the internet.  There are apparently two transitions with a UPS.  Handoff from wall power to battery, and hand back from battery to wall.  It’s reasonable that they would work differently.  It seems to be able to handle the first but not the second.  A partial work around is just assume that the thing can’t deal with hand back and power off your machine before the hand back.  This at least costs nothing.

 

 

Maybe he thought that a bigger UPS don't have to work so hard to give power, so it'll be fine, but i know 1200va is fine for 650W PSU. 
And i'm thinking that maybe someone UPS's board (not the battery) became faulty, now it's talking too much time converting AC-DC-AC. 
is there any settings in UPS board that maybe it changed? 
or it's automatic voltage regulation is changed/faulty? cause like i said when voltage spikes UPS used make e clicking sound but now it doesn't anymore. 
 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
30 minutes ago, Trinopoty said:

I have the exact same problem with my UPS with the additional issue that it overheats and shuts down if I'm playing any games for too long (over 2 hours).

The conclusion I came to is that my UPS is under-powered to drive my system at load. The only solution is to get a bigger UPS.

Additionally, batteries die faster when run above capacity. Also, a good conversion to UPS VA to actual wattage is to multiply it by 0.75. So a 1000VA UPS can supply a 750W load without any issues.

So you mean your pc used to restart with that clicking sound? also UPS shuts off because of overheat?

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4 minutes ago, Chokez said:

So you mean your pc used to restart with that clicking sound? also UPS shuts off because of overheat?

Yes. My PC restarts when switching depending on load. Though my UPS does not switch as much to make it irritating. If you have an unstable AC input, it will switch more often.

I'm pretty sure about the overheat thing because I have to give it 5 minutes to cool down before I can start it again afterwards.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
10 minutes ago, Trinopoty said:

Yes. My PC restarts when switching depending on load. Though my UPS does not switch as much to make it irritating. If you have an unstable AC input, it will switch more often.

I'm pretty sure about the overheat thing because I have to give it 5 minutes to cool down before I can start it again afterwards.

Oh, in my case it doesn't overheat or anything, 
though it does restart when switching, but doesn't have to be under load, even if i'm in bios pc restarts

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2 minutes ago, Chokez said:

Oh, in my case it doesn't overheat or anything, 
though it does restart when switching, but doesn't have to be under load, even if i'm in bios pc restarts

In that case, maybe try replacing your batteries. I used to have that issue and it was somewhat mitigated after replacing my batteries. Now my PC only restarts when switching under load.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Trinopoty said:

In that case, maybe try replacing your batteries. I used to have that issue and it was somewhat mitigated after replacing my batteries. Now my PC only restarts when switching under load.

They did change the battery, i sent it to the warranty, but the problem wasn't the battery but i think the board itself, 
they just changed the battery and that didn't fix the problem, so i sent it again, but they said they can't find any problem, that their pc isn't restarting, 
But i know they're using low end pc with no external GPU, 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 minutes ago, Trinopoty said:

Now my PC only restarts when switching under load.

This pc restart problem is really frustrating, 
I make 3D characters, because of this restart i lost my 4days of work, Not just that this restart also ruining my hardware's. Trying to get rid of this problem as fast as possible.
But can't find why is this happening, I mean both UPS behaving same way but i don't know why, also afraid that if i buy a new UPS also it's gonna become faulty :| 

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Just now, Chokez said:

This pc restart problem is really frustrating, 
I make 3D characters, because of this restart i lost my 4days of work, Not just that this restart also ruining my hardware's. Trying to get rid of this problem as fast as possible.
But can't find why is this happening, I mean both UPS behaving same way but i don't know why, also afraid that if i buy a new UPS also it's gonna become faulty :| 

Try using without a UPS for a few days. If it causes crashes or freezes, your AC is probably unstable for some reason and you should get it checked.

Unstable AC input really degrades UPS life. Also, if you can, try getting an online UPS next time. It's a bit more expensive but provides better protection.

If online UPS is not possible, get a Line Interactive UPS at least. LI UPS have better switching speed than offline UPS.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, Trinopoty said:

Try using without a UPS for a few days. If it causes crashes or freezes, your AC is probably unstable for some reason and you should get it checked.

Unstable AC input really degrades UPS life. Also, if you can, try getting an online UPS next time. It's a bit more expensive but provides better protection.

If online UPS is not possible, get a Line Interactive UPS at least. LI UPS have better switching speed than offline UPS.

Thank you, 
And yeah Online UPS isn't possible, The price is too high, But i'll see if i can find any Line interactive UPS.
Oh and another thing i have a deep fridge connected next to my PC's wall plug, There's total of 3wall plug, 1for a 650va ups which is only running a router device, 
1 for me pc's UPS and 1 for deep freeze, 
So by any chance can this freeze cause any problem? Ups used to make that clicking sound when freeze automatically turns on and off but UPS is faulty now that's why it doesn't anymore. 
Though i don't know replacing the freeze will be any help or not 

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1 minute ago, Chokez said:

Thank you, 
And yeah Online UPS isn't possible, The price is too high, But i'll see if i can find any Line interactive UPS.
Oh and another thing i have a deep fridge connected next to my PC's wall plug, There's total of 3wall plug, 1for a 650va ups which is only running a router device, 
1 for me pc's UPS and 1 for deep freeze, 
So by any chance can this freeze cause any problem? Ups used to make that clicking sound when freeze automatically turns on and off but UPS is faulty now that's why it doesn't anymore. 
Though i don't know replacing the freeze will be any help or not 

Cooling devices (AC, Freezer, etc) have a compressor that sends out huge power fluctuations when switching on and off. Normally, electronic devices are designed to handle a fair amount of noise and fluctuations but PCs are more sensitive instruments. If you have a 3 phase connection, try moving your freezer to a different phase. Otherwise, contact an electrician on how to minimize the fluctuations. A voltage stabilizer for your freezer could work but again, contact an electrician first.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 1/14/2020 at 3:06 AM, Trinopoty said:

Cooling devices (AC, Freezer, etc) have a compressor that sends out huge power fluctuations when switching on and off. Normally, electronic devices are designed to handle a fair amount of noise and fluctuations but PCs are more sensitive instruments. If you have a 3 phase connection, try moving your freezer to a different phase. Otherwise, contact an electrician on how to minimize the fluctuations. A voltage stabilizer for your freezer could work but again, contact an electrician first.

Thank you

I will do that but before talking to an electrician I just want to know

Instead of getting an voltage stabilizer for the freezer should I get a stabilizer my PC?

Of course i have to buy a new ups but don't want it to become faulty in the same way.

Like wall plug>stabilizer>UPS>PC

Is this gonna be any good or total waste?

 

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6 hours ago, Chokez said:

Thank you

I will do that but before talking to an electrician I just want to know

Instead of getting an voltage stabilizer for the freezer should I get a stabilizer my PC?

Of course i have to buy a new ups but don't want it to become faulty in the same way.

Like wall plug>stabilizer>UPS>PC

Is this gonna be any good or total waste?

 

Voltage stabilizers introduce additional switching so it wouldn't probably be a good idea to add a stabilizer to the UPS. Every time your stabilizer switches, your UPS will switch as well since stabilizers can't switch fast enough for a PC. Also, UPSs are voltage stabilizers by themselves in a way.

 

Also, if your freezer is a bit old, it's compressor is probably the thing that's faulty and causing more fluctuations than normal.

If you don't have a 3 phase connection, try adding distance between your freezer and your PC.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 1/14/2020 at 12:31 PM, Trinopoty said:

Voltage stabilizers introduce additional switching so it wouldn't probably be a good idea to add a stabilizer to the UPS. Every time your stabilizer switches, your UPS will switch as well since stabilizers can't switch fast enough for a PC. Also, UPSs are voltage stabilizers by themselves in a way.

 

Also, if your freezer is a bit old, it's compressor is probably the thing that's faulty and causing more fluctuations than normal.

If you don't have a 3 phase connection, try adding distance between your freezer and your PC.

3 phase connection? Hmm, I'm not sure, 

Sorry I'm not an expert about electrical things, This is a rent house we're living for couple of years.

There's some fuses in the middle of the room that controls each rooms power. Maybe 3 phase connection is not about this.

If not, then like you said a viltage stabilizer for refrigerator should stop the voltage fluctuations created my refrigerator in our home?

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26 minutes ago, Chokez said:

3 phase connection? Hmm, I'm not sure, 

Sorry I'm not an expert about electrical things, This is a rent house we're living for couple of years.

There's some fuses in the middle of the room that controls each rooms power. Maybe 3 phase connection is not about this.

If not, then like you said a viltage stabilizer for refrigerator should stop the voltage fluctuations created my refrigerator in our home?

Ask your house owner if there's a 3 phase electric connection. If it's a big multi-storey house, there definitely is.

Also, please contact your local electrician before spending any money on a voltage stabilizer. I think it should work but I'm not 100% sure.

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If you had the UPS for a few years, it could be that the battery is degraded. Lead acid batteries (what basically every ups uses) has a functional life of about 6-8 years FROM THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE NOT USAGE. And most UPS manufacturers allow you to replace them. Open up your UPS, (some, like mine, have a slot to access the battery directly), and find the serial number on the battery. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
32 minutes ago, Tedstonegenious said:

If you had the UPS for a few years, it could be that the battery is degraded. Lead acid batteries (what basically every ups uses) has a functional life of about 6-8 years FROM THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE NOT USAGE. And most UPS manufacturers allow you to replace them. Open up your UPS, (some, like mine, have a slot to access the battery directly), and find the serial number on the battery. 

Battery isn't issue here, i sent my UPS to the warranty, they just changed the battery, but that didn't fix the problem, 
 

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