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Takeshobo, manga creator sueing Cloudflare for offering service to sites that host pirated content

Saiyan
By Saiyan
in Tech News
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Sue WD and Seagate!!! THE PIRATES USE HARD DRIVES TO SERVE PIRATED CONTENT FROM!!!!

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
9 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Sue WD and Seagate!!! THE PIRATES USE HARD DRIVES TO SERVE PIRATED CONTENT FROM!!!!

Sue the power companies that give power to those drives. 

 

No, sure the coal miners that mine the coal that sell to the power companies to power the drives at the hosting facility that has an ISP that allows these websites to exist

🌲🌲🌲

 

 

 

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Posted
56 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Not for the kid with brain damage.  That money is going to go right into medical costs.  Brain damage is forever.  One million is nothing if the brain damage is serious.  Gone in a year or two.

My friend is the kid with brain damage, he hasn't had any lasting damages, he had to go through rehabilitation for his motor skills, but it was all payed for, the rest of the money went into a college trust and he had college payed for.  

I was saying my friend with the brain damage (jokingly) said it was a good trade.

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Posted
29 minutes ago, scuff gang said:

My friend is the kid with brain damage, he hasn't had any lasting damages, he had to go through rehabilitation for his motor skills, but it was all payed for, the rest of the money went into a college trust and he had college payed for.  

I was saying my friend with the brain damage (jokingly) said it was a good trade.

The classic “million dollar wound”. The bottom rung on a particular class of wound. Brain damage but not significant brain damage.  That he’s seen yet.  He may change his mind.  The brain heals. Some.  Slowly.  Supposed to be as good as it’s going to get after about 18 months.    Works best in the young.  He could find it catching up with him 20 years from now though.  The brain ages too.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted
16 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Isn't Cloudflare just redundancy host? Technically, they don't or shouldn't give a shit, they just host if original webpage goes down. Meaning, if original host is taken down by law, they should also be affected, but not otherwise. Barking at Cloudflare but not at original host seems a bit weird.

Cloudflare is run by people who don't care, and in theory that is a good thing.

 

In practice, what that means is that they are a co-conspirator in the crimes they are looking the other way to. They are accepting money from the criminals to operate, they are hiding the criminals identities on purpose.

 

And to add fuel to the "don't give a care" pile, reporting pirated or illegal content to cloudflare typically ends up with YOU, the reporter getting doxx'd instead. They ignore any responsibility for what files they are serving by sending any legal demands directly to the criminals.

 

If they were really acting as a CDN (which is basically a proxy server in all but name), then they should not be hiding the identities of those who use their service. If the service they want to provide is an anti-DDoS filter, that is a completely different thing, but also acknowledges the fact that they do know who and what is operating behind their proxy servers, since they would need to track visitors in order to accomplish this. Remember why the EU GDPR thing came into existence? The GDPR basically makes it impossible to operate Cloudflare, or any other CDN service without agreeing to be tracked, and they get the entire benefit of it.

 

This came to a head with 8chan. You know, the site that all the right-wing psychopaths post their murder's live to.

 

At some point Cloudflare is going to have to look up and realize their service is used almost entirely for evil purposes. So yes, they are the bad guy, and if they are shut down, the internet will be better for it. 

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Posted
11 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

One more money garb attempt to the detriment of a neutral infrastructure provider.....

Well who else are they going to go after since services like this allow people to hide any contact information that will allow companies to go after those whom are committing the offence, and if cloudflare know that the content being hosted on their systems from a specific site is being done so illegally and do nothing about it then they would be putting themselves at risk of legal action since they are the only people that copyright holders can take action against as the actual offenders are hiding behind a cover of anonymity provided to them by services provided by the companies that hide contact data.

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Posted
13 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Sue WD and Seagate!!! THE PIRATES USE HARD DRIVES TO SERVE PIRATED CONTENT FROM!!!!

Been to Germany lately?

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16 hours ago, Arika S said:

Sue the power companies that give power to those drives.

Sue Earth for letting pirates live.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, demonix00 said:

services like this allow people

You are mixing up cloudflare with some other company. It doesnt hide anyone's info.....

 

18 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

As for this nebulous and undefined  “underlying issue” I’m not sure which you are referring to.

Simply put they are  technologically backwards, and not just a bit. They are still making exclusive contract with local parasites, and still think adding more and more copy protection will fix their flawed business model.

Edited by jagdtigger
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Posted
On 1/8/2020 at 11:11 AM, Bombastinator said:

Tell that to the landlords who have had their properties bulldozed.  This is something that has happened.  

It might not for data service providers.  I was only talking about landlords.

The landlord isn’t police.  They don’t have to seek out knowledge.  They have to know that their property is being used in the commission of a crime, and then they have to do nothing.  Part of the reason it is done this way I think is drug houses create what is effectively pollution.  They draw customers to an area who commit other crimes nearby to raise the frequently needed amounts of money for continued drug use.  I doubt this happens with service providers.  I made the statement because landlors was used as an example of something that is something that doesn’t happen.  It’s not.  It actually happens.  I’m a landlord and even I think the law makes sense. For rental housing.

 

There is a reason for a landlord to want to ignore known drug houses. Drug dealers pay their rent on time.  

Unless they are cooking meth in the home they dont tear down homes just because they are drug houses.

 

A house that was used to sell weed or coke isnt getting destroyed by the courts because drugs were sold out of it.

 

Now if they destroy the property to the point its not inhabitable and the landlord doesnt want to pay to fix it. Then it gets condemned and possibly destroyed. Or if meth was cooked in it it becomes condemned. But thats because its not legally livable. Not really because its a drug house.

 

If the house was used to sell 1 million bucks worth of coke but is in perfect shape the courts arent going to tear it down.

 

But even then its not a great example as any half ass landlord should have insurance to cover such events.

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23 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Unless they are cooking meth in the home they dont tear down homes just because they are drug houses.

 

A house that was used to sell weed or coke isnt getting destroyed by the courts because drugs were sold out of it.

 

Now if they destroy the property to the point its not inhabitable and the landlord doesnt want to pay to fix it. Then it gets condemned and possibly destroyed. Or if meth was cooked in it it becomes condemned. But thats because its not legally livable. Not really because its a drug house.

 

If the house was used to sell 1 million bucks worth of coke but is in perfect shape the courts arent going to tear it down.

 

But even then its not a great example as any half ass landlord should have insurance to cover such events.

1. Might be true of single family homes.  
2. Insurance is variable about coverage.

3. Tends to be area dependent.  Different cities have different laws.  It can vary even by neighborhood within a city.

 

I appreciate the concept of you’re saying “that thing that happened never actually happened because rules”.

Rules change by area.  

The meth cooking thing is about poisonous conditions and human habitability.  That would definitely be A reason to do it totally separate from the point I was making.  I don’t believe it was the one used in the instances I mentioned. It has to do with a particular building causing danger and cost to the inhabitants of other nearby structures.  It’s a bit like the Regan era change of “wetland” rules on the grounds that even because an area was not wet, even though an area was called a “wetland” it had to do with wildlife habitat rather than actual dampness.  Your argument revolve around the concept of chemical pollution.  I used the term to describe a concept.  I believe the technical term is “urban blight”.  I was trying to describe a concept.

 

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted
2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

You are mixing up cloudflare with some other company. It doesnt hide anyone's info.....

 

Simply put they are  technologically backwards, and not just a bit. They are still making exclusive contract with local parasites, and still think adding more and more copy protection will fix their flawed business model.

All these assumed judgements. “Local parasites” “flawed business model”.  Stuffing preassumptions into an argument doesn’t help its quality.  This isn’t about attempting to run for office.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

1. Might be true of single family homes.  
2. Insurance is variable about coverage.

3. Tends to be area dependent.  Different cities have different laws.  It can vary even by neighborhood within a city.

 

I appreciate the concept of you’re saying “that thing that happened never actually happened because rules”.

Rules change by area.  

The meth cooking thing is about poisonous conditions and human habitability.  That would definitely be A reason to do it totally separate from the point I was making.  I don’t believe it was the one used in the instances I mentioned. It has to do with a particular building causing danger and cost to the inhabitants of other nearby structures.  It’s a bit like the Regan era change of “wetland” rules on the grounds that even because an area was not wet, even though an area was called a “wetland” it had to do with wildlife habitat rather than actual dampness.  Your argument revolve around the concept of chemical pollution.  I used the term to describe a concept.  I believe the technical term is “urban blight”.  I was trying to describe a concept.

 

Maybe im confused on what you are getting at.

 

First off, i dont really understand how your landlord comparison is valid when the landlord isnt the one being sued if the house is torn down.

 

Why would a house be torn down because it was used to sell drugs? If a homes perfectly livable then selling weed or coke out of it wouldnt leave any reason for it to be torn down. Ive never heard of a perfectly good home being torn down because people were selling drugs out of it (outisde of meth production).

 

Now the point about the landlord being sued if they knew that the drugs were being sold out of it. I believe that. Ive never seen a story like that but considering i can be arrested for knowingly house a fugitive it makes sense.

 

But then you would have to prove the landlrod knew. Which would be hard. Kinda like this case. They would have to prove that cloudfire knew what was going on and turned a blind eye. I dont see how they would be able to prove that. They offer a hosting service. thats it. If someone using that service for illegal things thats on the person doing the illegal things. If someone is using visine eye drops to poison people you wouldnt sue visine over it.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Maybe im confused on what you are getting at.

 

First off, i dont really understand how your landlord comparison is valid when the landlord isnt the one being sued if the house is torn down.

 

Why would a house be torn down because it was used to sell drugs? If a homes perfectly livable then selling weed or coke out of it wouldnt leave any reason for it to be torn down. Ive never heard of a perfectly good home being torn down because people were selling drugs out of it (outisde of meth production).

 

Now the point about the landlord being sued if they knew that the drugs were being sold out of it. I believe that. Ive never seen a story like that but considering i can be arrested for knowingly house a fugitive it makes sense.

 

But then you would have to prove the landlrod knew. Which would be hard. Kinda like this case. They would have to prove that cloudfire knew what was going on and turned a blind eye. I dont see how they would be able to prove that. They offer a hosting service. thats it. If someone using that service for illegal things thats on the person doing the illegal things. If someone is using visine eye drops to poison people you wouldnt sue visine over it.

Re: confusion.

Having to make suppositions as to the reason for your confusion, This may be that you are reading more into what I was saying than I actuall said.  A specific instance was posed as a comparison.  I pointed out that this particular comparison didn’t work as a rebuttal.  That only.

re: “Why would” arguments regarding livability.

This is a rephrase of the previous statement posed as a question.  It’s still about “urban blight” and the damage done to others in the area rather by behavior rather than chemicals or specific life safety to the inhabitants of the structure.

 

Re: difficulties of proof.

According to the prosecution this one is already solved.  It strikes me as fairly simple conceptually if perhaps occasionally difficult in practice.  They merely need to have been officially informed.  This is what process servers do.  Officially inform.  There are famous examples from the days of civil rights of various people attempting to evade such things by dodging process servers.  The prosecution of the suit claims that process was served.  This may or may not be true.  If it is it is and if it isn’t it isn’t.

 

re: Visine.
Well there’s There’s a nonsequitor.  Why is this even attached?  A completely different analogy having nothing to do with landlords and urban blight.  It is much like the other different analogies made later in the thread which have nothing to do with the landlord one.

You are trying to remake the original non involvement argument using a totally different example I am not involved in.  It is also a perhaps bad analogy as well because if one instead uses Tylenol, also a common over the counter drug, there is historical precedent there as well.  I’m not familiar with it myself. I believe the last attempt at such a different analogy  started “sue the world because..”. I’m not involved in that bit either.


To reply generally to the thread:

This whole thing seems to be about responsibility and culpability.  

Edited by Bombastinator
Ihateautocorrect

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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Posted
On 1/9/2020 at 6:42 AM, valdyrgramr said:

Well, megaupload got shutdown over this exact sorta thing and the owner was sent to prison.  I don't think he did anything illegal on the lines of piracy, but he also did nothing to stopthe pirates either who were uploading to his site.  Considering that cloudflare has done nothing it could go in the favor of the studio.

No he’s still out of prison. He lives in Queenstown. Contributing to the local economy in many great ways.

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On 1/8/2020 at 10:42 AM, Saiyan said:

Original Article on anime news network 

you have hyperlinked your own post on LTT as the source, wut ?

 

Spoiler

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Read This Before Posting http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/11724-read-before-posting-in-this-section/

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  • Author
36 minutes ago, Rohith_Kumar_Sp said:

you have hyperlinked your own post on LTT as the source, wut ?

Yeah. I know. I've tried to fix it on mobile but when I have the post editor open it won't let me highlight text to hyperlink. I only have select all snd paste options, when i chose select all it doesnt let me shrink the size of the highlighted text.

SmartSelect_20200109-135259_Firefox.jpg

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1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

He went to prison for it, iirc.

If the NZ authorities had of done everything by the book he would never have seen a single bar.  Was he guilty of knowingly providing a service to pirates? yes, almost undoubtedly, however if the authorities had of carried out there investigation by the book they would have found him guilty and he would have been served some sort of sentience.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Posted

Western Digital is responsible for pirated content because people use their drives to store it on there. /s

 

This is just as ridiculous as holding an ISP responsible for piracy. The people responsible are the seeders and leachers. That's it.

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6 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Re: confusion.

Having to make suppositions as to the reason for your confusion, This may be that you are reading more into what I was saying than I actuall said.  A specific instance was posed as a comparison.  I pointed out that this particular comparison didn’t work as a rebuttal.  That only.

re: “Why would” arguments regarding livability.

This is a rephrase of the previous statement posed as a question.  It’s still about “urban blight” and the damage done to others in the area rather by behavior rather than chemicals or specific life safety to the inhabitants of the structure.

 

The confusion on my end at least stems from the entire concept of the courts ordering a building torn down. I believe in the Uk they can do it if the building has been surveyed and judged to be unsafe to remain standing. Anything outside of that is completely not somthing the courts are even allowed to do.

 

The confusion on @RonnieOP's part seems to be stemming from the question of on what basis the courts are ordering the building torn down. Since it sounds,like "used to house drug dealers" isn't sufficient. Never mind the apparent distinction between weather the landlord knew or not. That would make the judgment of the building being torn down a punishment to the landlord for knowingly allowing drug dealers to dwell there. And it also doesn't sound like thats a punishment that actually exists on the books.

 

Hence the confusion, the landlord may be liable for knowingly allowing drug dealers to operate on his or her premises, but it's not clear how said operation can be used to provide justification for the building being torn down that is dependent on the knowledge or lack thereof of the landlord regarding said goings on.

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3 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Problem is they arent assumed.

Are.  They’re not defined. Not part of the actual argument.  They’re accusatory. Same as political “nicknames”.  Standard persuasive speech psychological trick. It’s a boilerplate politicians or salesman’s move.  Doesn’t matter if you think they’re true on not.  Even if they are true or not.

 

See someone pull that one by the way in speech and it means they’re trying to affect the belief of the listener regarding the subject independent of actual argument. Even if the pejorative is true.  It usually means it either isn’t or the speaker at the very least can’t actually connect the statement but wants to slide it in.

Not a pro, not even very good.  I’m just old and have time currently.  Assuming I know a lot about computers can be a mistake.

 

Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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17 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 They’re not defined. Not part of the actual argument.  They’re accusatory.

Do they still sign exclusive contracts that close out any competition? Do the still prevent ppl from getting what they paid for because of the interference of their flawed DRM schemes? And the list goes on...................................................................... Id suggest to you that pull your head out of the sand.

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