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Saiyan

Takeshobo, manga creator sueing Cloudflare for offering service to sites that host pirated content

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Posted · Original PosterOP

"The lawsuit alleges that Cloudflare is complicit in copyright infringement by offering its service to manga piracy sites. Takeshobo and the manga creator are seeking damages, and Takeshobo is also seeking the removal of all its manga data temporarily stored on Cloudflare's servers."

 

Original Article on Anime News Network and sourced from Kyodo 

 

Although what the creator may say is true, I don't think this is going to go anywhere in the end. Although the Japanese take piracy (especially of manga) very seriously, they're fighting a battle that's hard win in this case.


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28 minutes ago, Saiyan said:

Takeshobo is seeking damages from cloudflare and removal of data stores on their servers. Their only claim is that Cloudflare continues to provide service to them although they know they're hosting pirated content.

 

Original Article on anime news network and sourced from Kyodo 

 

Although what the creator may say is true, I don't think this is going to go anywhere in the end. Although the Japanese take piracy (especially of manga) very seriously, they're fighting a battle that's hard win in this case.

Well it’s appeared here, so it’s already gone somewhere.  Actually winning the suit might not have been the point of the excercise.


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Isn't Cloudflare just redundancy host? Technically, they don't or shouldn't give a shit, they just host if original webpage goes down. Meaning, if original host is taken down by law, they should also be affected, but not otherwise. Barking at Cloudflare but not at original host seems a bit weird.

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9 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Isn't Cloudflare just redundancy host? Technically, they don't or shouldn't give a shit, they just host if original webpage goes down. Meaning, if original host is taken down by law, they should also be affected, but not otherwise. Barking at Cloudflare but not at original host seems a bit weird.

Takeshobo is more than likely just going after the easiest target for them.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Isn't Cloudflare just redundancy host? Technically, they don't or shouldn't give a shit, they just host if original webpage goes down. Meaning, if original host is taken down by law, they should also be affected, but not otherwise. Barking at Cloudflare but not at original host seems a bit weird.

Yeah, exactly what I thought. One user on the Ann forums compared it to sueing a landlord because the tenants are doing something illegal and that's pretty much what we have here.


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1 minute ago, Saiyan said:

Yeah, exactly what I thought. One user on the Ann forums compared it to sueing a landlord because the tenants are doing something illegal and that's pretty much what we have here.

Speaking as a landlord that can happen.  It’s a particular issue with drug dealers.  If a landlord finds out they’re hosting a drug house and does nothing they can get their building bulldozed.  It does have to be knowing.  If a swat team shows up to serve a no knock warrant on an apartment drug house watch a landlord fall over himself looking for keys he is not normally legally allowed to use except in special situations like that one.  Landlord/tenant relation might be exactly the thing the prosecution goes for.


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cloudflare have seen these issues coming, there is a reason they ditched 8ch.

 


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So Mangadex is now on .cc instead of .com

 

Also, this is the appropriate response

 


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6 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Speaking as a landlord that can happen.  It’s a particular issue with drug dealers.  If a landlord finds out they’re hosting a drug house and does nothing they can get their building bulldozed.  It does have to be knowing.  If a swat team shows up to serve a no knock warrant on an apartment drug house watch a landlord fall over himself looking for keys he is not normally legally allowed to use except in special situations like that one.  Landlord/tenant relation might be exactly the thing the prosecution goes for.

I don't think that argument hold much water. Trying to have cloudflare be the police of all site it serves is not realistic or reasonable. It should not be up to them if someone is infringing on other people's IP. 

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2 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I don't think that argument hold much water. Trying to have cloudflare be the police of all site it serves is not realistic or reasonable. It should not be up to them if someone is infringing on other people's IP. 

Tell that to the landlords who have had their properties bulldozed.  This is something that has happened.  

It might not for data service providers.  I was only talking about landlords.

The landlord isn’t police.  They don’t have to seek out knowledge.  They have to know that their property is being used in the commission of a crime, and then they have to do nothing.  Part of the reason it is done this way I think is drug houses create what is effectively pollution.  They draw customers to an area who commit other crimes nearby to raise the frequently needed amounts of money for continued drug use.  I doubt this happens with service providers.  I made the statement because landlors was used as an example of something that is something that doesn’t happen.  It’s not.  It actually happens.  I’m a landlord and even I think the law makes sense. For rental housing.

 

There is a reason for a landlord to want to ignore known drug houses. Drug dealers pay their rent on time.  


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1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

Tell that to the landlords who have had their properties bulldozed.  This is something that has happened.  

It might not for data service providers.  I was only talking about landlords.

The landlord isn’t police.  They don’t have to seek out knowledge.  They have to know that their property is being used in the commission of a crime, and then they have to do nothing.  Part of the reason it is done this way I think is drug houses create what is effectively pollution.  They draw customers to an area who commit other crimes nearby to raise the frequently needed amounts of money for continued drug use.  I doubt this happens with service providers.  I made the statement because landlors was used as an example of something that is something that doesn’t happen.  It’s not.  It actually happens.  I’m a landlord and even I think the law makes sense. For rental housing.

 

There is a reason for a landlord to want to ignore known drug houses. Drug dealers pay their rent on time.  

I was stating that it's a bad comparison and there are already rules in place that exempt companies from things like this in the US I am unsure about Japanese law. AT&T isn't responsible for all the criminal activity that is done while utilizing their cell phone service just like cloudflare isn't responsible for its users. 

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6 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

I was stating that it's a bad comparison and there are already rules in place that exempt companies from things like this in the US I am unsure about Japanese law. AT&T isn't responsible for all the criminal activity that is done while utilizing their cell phone service just like cloudflare isn't responsible for its users. 

It very well could be.  It’s a question of defining the concept of affected area.  Cell phones are not area specific.  There are laws that exempt some companies.  To make it fly the prosecution would have to be able to define the entire internet as a local area, and I don’t think it will be possible.


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3 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

I don't think that argument hold much water. Trying to have cloudflare be the police of all site it serves is not realistic or reasonable. It should not be up to them if someone is infringing on other people's IP. 

Well, megaupload got shutdown over this exact sorta thing and the owner was sent to prison.  I don't think he did anything illegal on the lines of piracy, but he also did nothing to stopthe pirates either who were uploading to his site.  Considering that cloudflare has done nothing it could go in the favor of the studio.


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3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, megaupload got shutdown over this exact sorta thing and the owner was sent to prison.  I don't think he did anything illegal on the lines of piracy, but he also did nothing to stopthe pirates either who were uploading to his site.  Considering that cloudflare has done nothing it could go in the favor of the studio.

OFC it did nothing. Its not their job to spy on their customers nor is it legal because IMO it would count as eavesdropping.....  This again a case where some parasite sees an opportunity for easy money.

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1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

OFC it did nothing. Its not their job to spy on their customers nor is it legal because IMO it would count as eavesdropping.....  This again a case where some parasite sees an opportunity for easy money.

Legally that depends on the location, but the point is, legal or not, there has been a similar situation before where a major site got taken down over this sorta thing and the owner went to prison for it.


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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

major site

Yes, sites. But cloadflare is not a site, and definitely not a hosting provider.

Edited by jagdtigger
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10 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Yes, sites. But cloadflare is not a site, and definitely not a hosting provider.

Well, what does cludflare offer as a service?


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11 hours ago, Saiyan said:

Yeah, exactly what I thought. One user on the Ann forums compared it to sueing a landlord because the tenants are doing something illegal and that's pretty much what we have here.

theyre going after money, a while back my friend got d brain damage from being hit in the head with a trash can at school and instead of suing the, kid his dad sued the school district for letting kids roam the halls un-monitored, ended up getting like 1m, my friend said it was a pretty decent trade ?


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Next, they sue Dell for selling computers to people running sites that serve pirated content.

 

And then Intel, for selling CPUs to a company that sells computers to a company that provides services to a web that serves pirated content :P

 

 

PS: it sounds like someone failed at taking matters in their own DDOS hands and got salty :D

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54 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

OFC it did nothing. Its not their job to spy on their customers nor is it legal because IMO it would count as eavesdropping.....  This again a case where some parasite sees an opportunity for easy money.

I think the opposite possibly.  He spent actual money to file the suit and would spend vastly more to prosecute it.  It is possible he found a lawyer willing to do it on contingency, but lawyers only do that for cases they’re fairly sure they will win and this doesn’t look like it would be one of those.  the chances of winning it are apparently quite questionable.  If it’s a bet it’s a poor one.  
With contingency cases commonly the actual plaintif makes little or no money even if they win.  The money goes to pay for the case. Meanwhile the plaintif has to invest massive amounts of time and emotional energy.  There are exceptions.  
 

What it did do was spark conversations like this one.

 

Whether the case was done on contingency is an interesting question.  If it was it remains possible (though still it guaranteed) you are correct.  If it wasn’t though you can’t be.


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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

 He spent actual money to file the suit and would spend vastly more to prosecute it.

Or the publisher did it on his behalf, we do not know it yet..... And these delusional companies are known for their habit of burning money on these cases with no tangible return:

main-qimg-774bb0d4b2fc547562be9552a60053

 

 

Unless they solve the underlying issue the above will come into effect. And seeing how they still making that issue worse(one subscription per publisher, more stringent "anty piracy" SW which in reality only irritates the paing customer, etc) they are going to do it for a very long time(or until they go bankrupt).

Edited by jagdtigger
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