Help me pick headphones

[martward]

Hi all,

 

Yesterday I made a post about headphones and got some very useful information which helped me better narrow down what I'm looking for (thank you all who responded!), today I want to ask approximately the same but with more information.

I am trying to decide between a couple of headphones strictly for listening to music, no gaming or mixing or anything like that. 
I use them at work only (that's why there are only closed backs on the list), and I will be using them in combination with a DAC (probably the Fiio E10K) since whatever is in my laptop sucks, also using them on my phone is not a requirement. Unfortunately I can only try the BeyerDynamics COPP and DT770Pro, since the AKG's and the BD CS are not on demo anywhere near me afaik.
I mostly listen to classic rock (Pink Floyd, Queen, Yes, etcetera).

Also I have some questions about impedance: when I try to look up why high impedance is better than lower impedance everyone seems to say higher isn't necessarily better, so why do most expensive headphones have higher impedance? Also some people say a DAC doesn't make sense in a lower impedance headphone, while others say that they do. For instance I know I don't need a DAC to power the BeyerDynamic Custom Studio headphones since they only have 16 oms of impedance, but using a DAC would still sound better than using them straight from my laptop right?

 

These are the headphones I am currently considering:

 

BeyerDynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohms
+ Very comfortable pads I think (I've tried my boss' BeyerDynamics which look like these ones)
+ Very good reviews
- No detachable cable
Eur 114

 

BeyerDynamic Custom One Pro Plus
+ Detachable cable
+ Good sound (according to reviews)
+ Can fit the velour pads of the DT770 pro
- Sligthly lesser sound than the DT770 pro (as far as I can find)
Eur 129

 

BeyerDynamic Custom Studio
+ Detachable cable
+ Better sound than the one pro plus I guess?
+ Softer pads
- Have to order them from abroad or pay way more
- Can't test them
Eur 129

 

Akg 361
+ Comfortable (according to reviews)
+ Good sound quality (according to reviews)
+ Detachable cable
- Lesser build quality
- Can't test them
Eur 104

 

Akg 371
+ Comfortable (according to reviews)
+ Very good sound quality in some songs
+ Detachable cable
- Disappointing sound quality in other songs
- Apparently some Quality Control issues and I have to order them from abroad
- Can't test them
Eur 135

 

I was considering the AudioTechnica M50x and M40x but have crossed these off based on the answers to my previous post.

Any input would be greatly appreciated since I am at a complete loss.

[Daniel Z.]

Get the Sennheiser HD 6xx, 58x, or 650. The 650 and 6xx are identical. These very good headphones.

[martward]

4 minutes ago, Daniel Z. said:

Get the Sennheiser HD 6xx, 58x, or 650. The 650 and 6xx are identical. These very good headphones.

Those are all about twice as expensive as the models I posted here (if they are available at all in the Netherlands). I'm looking for sub 150 headphones.

[HumdrumPenguin]

50 minutes ago, martward said:

Hi all,

 

Yesterday I made a post about headphones and got some very useful information which helped me better narrow down what I'm looking for (thank you all who responded!), today I want to ask approximately the same but with more information.

I am trying to decide between a couple of headphones strictly for listening to music, no gaming or mixing or anything like that. 
I use them at work only (that's why there are only closed backs on the list), and I will be using them in combination with a DAC (probably the Fiio E10K) since whatever is in my laptop sucks, also using them on my phone is not a requirement. Unfortunately I can only try the BeyerDynamics COPP and DT770Pro, since the AKG's and the BD CS are not on demo anywhere near me afaik.
I mostly listen to classic rock (Pink Floyd, Queen, Yes, etcetera).

Also I have some questions about impedance: when I try to look up why high impedance is better than lower impedance everyone seems to say higher isn't necessarily better, so why do most expensive headphones have higher impedance? Also some people say a DAC doesn't make sense in a lower impedance headphone, while others say that they do. For instance I know I don't need a DAC to power the BeyerDynamic Custom Studio headphones since they only have 16 oms of impedance, but using a DAC would still sound better than using them straight from my laptop right?

 

These are the headphones I am currently considering:

 

BeyerDynamic DT770 Pro 80 ohms
+ Very comfortable pads I think (I've tried my boss' BeyerDynamics which look like these ones)
+ Very good reviews
- No detachable cable
Eur 114

 

BeyerDynamic Custom One Pro Plus
+ Detachable cable
+ Good sound (according to reviews)
+ Can fit the velour pads of the DT770 pro
- Sligthly lesser sound than the DT770 pro (as far as I can find)
Eur 129

 

BeyerDynamic Custom Studio
+ Detachable cable
+ Better sound than the one pro plus I guess?
+ Softer pads
- Have to order them from abroad or pay way more
- Can't test them
Eur 129

 

Akg 361
+ Comfortable (according to reviews)
+ Good sound quality (according to reviews)
+ Detachable cable
- Lesser build quality
- Can't test them
Eur 104

 

Akg 371
+ Comfortable (according to reviews)
+ Very good sound quality in some songs
+ Detachable cable
- Disappointing sound quality in other songs
- Apparently some Quality Control issues and I have to order them from abroad
- Can't test them
Eur 135

 

I was considering the AudioTechnica M50x and M40x but have crossed these off based on the answers to my previous post.

Any input would be greatly appreciated since I am at a complete loss.

You are confusing what a DAC is for. A DAC will convert the digital signal to an analog one. In other words, binary code into sound waves that your brain can understand. To power low efficient and/or higher impedance headphones, an amplifier will be necessary, not a DAC. Everything you use that produces sound will have an internal DAC. Bringing an external DAC to the equation allows the conversion to be done outside of your machine, where there's a lot of noise and interference if not shielded properly. If you want a good amp at lower price points, take a look at the JDS Atom, Geshelli Labs Archel Pro, Monolith Liquid Spark, Schiit Magni 3+, or Schiit Magni Heresy. As for a budget DAC, The Schiit Modi 3 or Topping D30 will do a good job. 

[martward]

Just now, HumdrumPenguin said:

You are confusing what a DAC is for. A DAC will convert the digital signal to an analog one. In other words, binary code into sound waves that your brain can understand. To power low efficient and/or higher impedance headphones, an amplifier will be necessary, not a DAC. Everything you use that produces sound will have an internal DAC. Bringing an external DAC to the equation allows the conversion to be done outside of your machine, where there's a lot of noise and interference if not shielded properly. If you want a good amp at lower price points, take a look at the JDS Atom, Geshelli Labs Archel Pro, Monolith Liquid Spark, Schiit Magni 3+, or Schiit Magni Heresy. As for a budget dac, The Schiit Modi 3 or Topping D30 will do a good job. 

That's exactly my confusion! I would assume a DAC (like the E10K) would improve my experience regardless of whether I get 16Ohm or 250Ohm headphones, but I saw so many people saying that it doesn't make sense to get a DAC for headphones with lower impedance that I started to doubt. The reason I'm looking at the E10K is 1) because it's one of the few affordable ones available here and 2) it's small and I will carry it to and from work since I'll be in a shared office space.

[kokakolia]

IMHO the AKG will sound good with classic rock (Harman curve). The Beyerdynamic won’t because of the boosted highs and the dip in the mids. 
 

 

[HumdrumPenguin]

3 minutes ago, martward said:

That's exactly my confusion! I would assume a DAC (like the E10K) would improve my experience regardless of whether I get 16Ohm or 250Ohm headphones, but I saw so many people saying that it doesn't make sense to get a DAC for headphones with lower impedance that I started to doubt. The reason I'm looking at the E10K is 1) because it's one of the few affordable ones available here and 2) it's small and I will carry it to and from work since I'll be in a shared office space.

Some products are 2 in 1 (DAC + Amp), and some are standalone DACs or Amps. The DAC portion has absolutely nothing to do with driving the headphones, that's amp territory. The amp on the EK10 is fairly week, outputting only 200mw at 32 Ohm (you should be ideally looking at 5x that much or more). I won't make any suggestions on the headphones you have up because I don't like Beyrs and AKG sound signature, so that's better to leave to someone else. 

[martward]

1 minute ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

Some products are 2 in 1 (DAC + Amp), and some are standalone DACs or Amps. The DAC portion has absolutely nothing to do with driving the headphones, that's amp territory. The amp on the EK10 is fairly week, outputting only 200mw at 32 Ohm (you should be ideally looking at 5x that much or more). I won't make any suggestions on the headphones you have up because I don't like Beyrs and AKG sound signature, so that's better to leave to someone else. 

Thank you

[CTR640]

I have the E10K and DT770 and DT880. Both are 250ohms and the E10K can make them very loud. I have the E10K because the volume is very low in games using my onboard audio of my motherboard. But when using normal content, it's alright. The DT770 80ohm is a good one too, I ordered one too but Bax-Shop has a very horrible help desk/service, next time I'll only buy from Coolblue. They have them in stock in stores. There is a good chance you don't need to get a dac/amp so don't need the E10K either.

 

Anyway, the DT770 is the first headphone I experienced the excellent noise isolation.

[HumdrumPenguin]

19 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

I have the E10K and DT770 and DT880. Both are 250ohms and the E10K can make them very loud. I have the E10K because the volume is very low in games using my onboard audio of my motherboard. But when using normal content, it's alright. The DT770 80ohm is a good one too, I ordered one too but Bax-Shop has a very horrible help desk/service, next time I'll only buy from Coolblue. They have them in stock in stores. There is a good chance you don't need to get a dac/amp so don't need the E10K either.

 

Anyway, the DT770 is the first headphone I experienced the excellent noise isolation.

In my experience, there is way more to an amplifier than just making headphones loud enough (increase in bass, soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, etc).

[CTR640]

5 minutes ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

In my experience, there is way more to an amplifier than just making headphones loud enough (increase in bass, soundstage, imaging, instrument separation, etc).

Yes, there is but sometimes the budget also plays a role too and also what the person wants/needs.

[HumdrumPenguin]

42 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

Yes, there is but sometimes the budget also plays a role too and also what the person wants/needs.

That’s why I have previously mentioned a few amps and dacs that I consider having an extremely good value. The more information you have, the more likely you are to know what to expect out of something. But yeah, I get what you mean.

Edited January 7, 2020 by HumdrumPenguin

[martward]

@CTR640 @HumdrumPenguin I am probably getting a DAC regardless of what headphones I'm getting (it's my birthday soon and I need to ask something right).

 

Right now I'm leaning towards the AKG for sound reasons, but being a bit deterred since I have to import the K370s from Germany and I'm not very convinced of the build quality of the head band, it seems like something that will give out at some point. I'm leaning towards the DT770 Pro for price and comfort reasons (being a bit deterred by the non-detachable cable) and the COPP because it has a detachable cable (though I will probably need to buy the DT770 pads because they are awesome). I'll probably try them both and see if I can tell the difference in audio. The COPP is only 16 ohm, that was mostly why I was asking about the link between using a DAC and impedance.

 

Thanks for your answers so far

[HumdrumPenguin]

1 hour ago, martward said:

@CTR640 @HumdrumPenguin I am probably getting a DAC regardless of what headphones I'm getting (it's my birthday soon and I need to ask something right).

 

Right now I'm leaning towards the AKG for sound reasons, but being a bit deterred since I have to import the K370s from Germany and I'm not very convinced of the build quality of the head band, it seems like something that will give out at some point. I'm leaning towards the DT770 Pro for price and comfort reasons (being a bit deterred by the non-detachable cable) and the COPP because it has a detachable cable (though I will probably need to buy the DT770 pads because they are awesome). I'll probably try them both and see if I can tell the difference in audio. The COPP is only 16 ohm, that was mostly why I was asking about the link between using a DAC and impedance.

 

Thanks for your answers so far

Just a quick tip, impedance is not everything. Take a look at planars with less than 50 ohms impedance that are as hard as a truck to drive. Sensitivity plays a big part in it.