[deleted]

[rice guru]

1 minute ago, Magus said:

I think I prefer Sabre. I dunno how to explain this, but the AKM feels... veiled? I wanna say "Velvatine" for some reason. It feels like it's trying to be articifically warm or something, I guess. I know it's a sound-signature that it seems a lot of people prefer, but I guess I'm more towards the transparent, cold, sterile, and analytical myself. Kinda makes sense with my complete computer-nerd persona I guess.

 

Again, not an audio scientist but speaking with just my monkey-brain senses here. This is kinda what I mean by me percieiving a difference between DACs like I was saying before.

 

I do already have a Schiit stack which is AKM based, I know I preferred my HA-2. But then you have to consider that they're different chips and different implementations... ultimately I can't know without actually trying them. The amount of nuance about all of this makes it hard to make comparisons without just trying things.

 

Like I said, I've consulted SBAF as well, kinda curious as to what they may have to say. They can take more time to respond though.

the veiled sound you are talking about is most likely schiit's house sound where they have compression. it is forward and abit veiled  and has some dynamic range compression. not at all a problem with the chipset. 

[Magus]

[deleted]

[HumdrumPenguin]

7 minutes ago, Magus said:

Ah alright, well I guess that answers that a bit. Maybe I'm just not super into Schiit then.

 

Yeah if there's two things that bugged me about the Schiit stack it's that it feels like it's trying to be warm and isn't as transparent to me, and the fact that I hear a lot of static anytime I try to turn up/down the volume (especially on the HD6XX).

 

If that's just a Schiit problem and not an AKM problem then I start to wonder what I really want again, lol.

I use an Asgard 3 with the 4490 module built in for my home pc. I don't hear any hiss or anything bad really (while using the HD6XX).

Edited January 5, 2020 by HumdrumPenguin

[rice guru]

3 minutes ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

I use an Asgard 3 with the 4490 module built in for my home pc. I don't hear any hiss or anything bad really (while using the HD6XX).

not all schiit products suffer from what I previously stated the schiit heresy for example sound fine. but the older budget schiit stack particularly the magni and modi did and is pretty noticeable especially when compared to other stacks. also the asgard 3 is much better than the orignal asgard and the 2 and doesn't have the issues they had

[Magus]

[deleted]

[rice guru]

3 minutes ago, Magus said:

I have a Mangi 3 + Modi 3, I wouldn't think I'd have such problems.

 

I'll think about things. I get a gut feeling that I prefer Sabre, so I'm kinda leaning towards those options more. But it seems like the Elex is set in stone (unless someone comes around who thinks the Koss is better) so I may get that soon and just test drive them out of my current stack until Drop decides to drop a better stack.

the magni modi stack is probably the best example of forward schiit sound compression. 

[Magus]

[deleted]

[rice guru]

23 minutes ago, Magus said:

I think for sure I'm getting the Elex, I may even go ahead and buy. Too much good word behind it and apparently it's usually $700 and currently it's $600.

 

For an amplifier, considering the THX AAA-789 -- apparently it's better than the THX AAA-888? Anyway, much like the Elex, too much good behind it to ignore, even if it's a little pricier than others I was conisdering.

 

So that would just leave the DAC to consider, which may be the Topping D50s or SU-8, I see little sense in getting a two-in-one if I'm swapping out the amp.

 

I looked-up "Dual 9038Pro" just curious if anything affordable does that... and no, it looks like that's where you hit the "over $1000" range for DACs (like the L.K.S. Audio MH-DA004).

 

So I'm still thinking on the DAC, but am pretty sold on headphones and amplifier by now I suppose.

Look around for amps the 789 sounds just as good as the 888 apparently according humdrum they have some QC issues to work out but if you have broken unit you can get it replaced. And is cheaper. Monoprice has one with the 887 chip I trust monoprice and they have some killer support.  Just a bit pricier than a 789 though.butbif all working correctly all the thx amps basically sound the same.

[Magus]

[deleted]

[HumdrumPenguin]

1 hour ago, Magus said:

I was looking at this review and it concluded that the 789 was the strongest recommendation.

 

I'm really just thinking of what DAC now. It seems like it may be the Topping D50s after all.

 

Looking into "balanced vs unbalanced" on the DAC end of things, I found this discussion:

 

 

At that point they started talking about ADI-2s or something of that nature.

 

Promted me to look-up the RME ADI-2... that's when you start looking at "are you f*cking kidding me?" price territory though.

 

But basically the reason I'm including this is because I wonder if balanced vs unbalanced really even matters with the THX 789. If not there's no sense in weighting it in choosing a DAC.

I'd say build quality and reliability on the 789 is better than on the SP200. The circuitry on the SP200 is an improved version, but I seriously doubt a difference can be heard. The 789 also functions as a pre amp and doesn't run hot since the power supply is outside of the unity. Neither amps are truly balanced though, and the XLR sockets are there mostly for convenience. The sound will be louder on the 789 via XLR output, while it stays the same on the SP200. Truth is that it doesn't really matter. One of the benefits of having balance is to lower the noise floor down, and THX already presents you with the lowest noise floor. Technically speaking, single ended and balanced are never supposed to sound different, and when they do is because the manufacturer purposefully made it so.

 

I'm scrambling for pennies now to get the 789 to pair with the new cans I ordered this week, so if I put my money behind it, I guess that says something.

[Magus]

[deleted]

[HumdrumPenguin]

2 hours ago, Magus said:

One thing that's nice about getting the THX AAA-789 is you get an extra $25 off on the THX. So I get the Elex for $600 and THX for $375.

 

All I need to figure out is the DAC now. Thinking it may be the Topping D50S.

Pros for the SU8 V2: Balanced and has remote control

Cons: The ESS hump is there (if you check the measurements), and SMSL is known for bad QA. The latter may not be a concern to you, but it is to me.

 

Pros for the Topping D50S: Topping corrected the hump on the D50S and it has Bluetooth in case you are into this kind of stuff.

 

Both have DSD512 upsampling. Between the 2, I'd go D50S. If you care to consider what I have in mind for myself after I get the THX 789 this or the next month, that would be, in order of preference:

 

1. Topping D90

2. Topping D70

3. JDS EL DAC 2

 

They are all based on AKM chipsets, which I personally like more. And again, those are very minute differences, but you will hear it with the 789. Realistically speaking, I see myself getting the EL DAC 2 sometime this year and being very happy with it already. Until then, the 789 will feed from the iMac's internal dac I have at work. I made the tests with my amplifier feeding from the 4490 and the mac's dac, and was impressed by what I was getting out of the mac.

 

Ps.: rice guru has a sound preference that is more in line with yours as I understand by many of his previous posts, but I did take that into consideration and that's why I didn't straight up shoot out my gear preferences.

Ps.2: Geshelli Labs has a pretty decent and cheap DAC. I don't remember the model exactly, but it is worth mentioning.

[rice guru]

4 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

Pros for the SU8 V2: Balanced and has remote control

Cons: The ESS hump is there (if you check the measurements), and SMSL is known for bad QA. The latter may not be a concern to you, but it is to me.

 

Pros for the Topping D50S: Topping corrected the hump on the D50S and it has Bluetooth in case you are into this kind of stuff.

 

Both have DSD512 upsampling. Between the 2, I'd go D50S. If you care to consider what I have in mind for myself after I get the THX 789 this or the next month, that would be, in order of preference:

 

1. Topping D90

2. Topping D70

3. JDS EL DAC 2

 

They are all based on AKM chipsets, which I personally like more. And again, those are very minute differences, but you will hear it with the 789. Realistically speaking, I see myself getting the EL DAC 2 sometime this year and being very happy with it already. Until then, the 789 will feed from the iMac's internal dac I have at work. I made the tests with my amplifier feeding from the 4490 and the mac's dac, and was impressed by what I was getting out of the mac.

 

Ps.: rice guru has a sound preference that is more in line with yours as I understand by many of his previous posts, but I did take that into consideration and that's why I didn't straight up shoot out my gear preferences.

Ps.2: Geshelli Labs has a pretty decent and cheap DAC. I don't remember the model exactly, but it is worth mentioning.

 I don't take any issue with going with the 789 it's an excellent amp any of the thx amps are fine. I take issue with going with an unbalanced DAC over a balnced one if we go with a thx amp to have a fully balanced setup. Unlike what the measurements suggest the SU8 does not have an audible was hump. Why I was pushing for the su8 and this budget DAC which is also excellent https://geshelli.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fenog2-pro-dac-clear-case

 

@HumdrumPenguin my soul d preferences actually leans less analytical and more warm and dynamic reason why I have a liquid spay as an amp over the atom.

[HumdrumPenguin]

1 hour ago, rice guru said:

 I don't take any issue with going with the 789 it's an excellent amp any of the thx amps are fine. I take issue with going with an unbalanced DAC over a balnced one if we go with a thx amp to have a fully balanced setup. Unlike what the measurements suggest the SU8 does not have an audible was hump. Why I was pushing for the su8 and this budget DAC which is also excellent https://geshelli.com/shop?olsPage=products%2Fenog2-pro-dac-clear-case

 

@HumdrumPenguin my soul d preferences actually leans less analytical and more warm and dynamic reason why I have a liquid spay as an amp over the atom.

789 is not fully balanced. The input is balanced, the output is not. The same applies to the SP200.

Edited January 5, 2020 by HumdrumPenguin

[rice guru]

3 hours ago, HumdrumPenguin said:

789 is not fully balanced. The input is balanced, the output is not. The same applies to the SP200.

damn really? well at that point then yeah well at that point the SU 8, archel pro , a d50s heck even the khadas can be used but a balanced dac can be great regardless future amp upgrades and sidegrades.  But  it really doesn't matter anyways but you do get a sonic benefit from getting a balanced dac being a stronger signal and the su8 has better performance out of it's xlr out

[rice guru]

also smsl SU 8 up on drop for $170 right now 

https://drop.com/buy/smsl-su-8-dac

[Magus]

[deleted]

[rice guru]

7 minutes ago, Magus said:

I'll consider that for sure.

 

Yeah discovering that the THX-789 isn't balanced kinda changed things. I'll still go for balanced over unbalanced when comparing within the same price range though. Is the D50S not balanced, I mean it uses two DAC chips and all that jazz.

 

DSD support doesn't really matter to me, I don't listen to DSD. I looked-up the specifics about it and apparently there's nothing DSD512, let alone DSD1024 like I'm seeing on some models -- makes me think "Wtf is even the point of this arbitrary specification?" For me though, PCM performance is all that's really going to matter.

 

The only thing that staves me off of the SU-8 is some negative reviews and reports I've heard about it. I feel like if the D50S is also balanced then I may just go for that. What were the other features of the SU-8 that the D50S doesn't have? I just wonder if they're really anything I would actually use. I'm not going to use any wireless / bluetooth features either. All that matters to me is PCM performance and what bitstreaming formats it can decode. DSD and wireless features are lost on me tbh.

the SU 8 has a remote control balanced output and Preset EQ settings like Tube mode that makes things sound slighly warmer. but I dont think you would use that. 

if you need a no bullshit clean , and high quality, well priced, and powerful really look into the Geshelli labs stack its not fully balanced . but from what it seems if you want a fully balanced setup you might have to spend more cash

[rice guru]

and the monolith THX desktop is probably the best you can get under $500 for a fully balanced setup

[HumdrumPenguin]

25 minutes ago, Magus said:

I'll consider that for sure.

 

Yeah discovering that the THX-789 isn't balanced kinda changed things. I'll still go for balanced over unbalanced when comparing within the same price range though. Is the D50S not balanced, I mean it uses two DAC chips and all that jazz.

 

DSD support doesn't really matter to me, I don't listen to DSD. I looked-up the specifics about it and apparently there's nothing DSD512, let alone DSD1024 like I'm seeing on some models -- makes me think "Wtf is even the point of this arbitrary specification?" For me though, PCM performance is all that's really going to matter.

 

The only thing that staves me off of the SU-8 is some negative reviews and reports I've heard about it. I feel like if the D50S is also balanced then I may just go for that. What were the other features of the SU-8 that the D50S doesn't have? I just wonder if they're really anything I would actually use. I'm not going to use any wireless / bluetooth features either. All that matters to me is things that would noticeably affect the sound when listening to PCM audio and what bitstreaming formats it can decode. DSD and wireless features are lost on me tbh.

 

Honestly I'm kind-of wondering if there's much a point to all of this or not. There's people who've looked at my motherboard specs (specifically the bit about SupremeFX close to the bottom) and have told me that any external equipment is totally unnecessary, and admittedly I've plugged directly into it before and felt like that the extra equipment I have doesn't really do much.

I sort of gave you the answer a few posts back. "Monolith Desktop Headphone Amplificer and DAC with THX AAA Technology". Get it and be done with it. You will have it all, just like the title of this thread asks for.

[Magus]

[deleted]

[Magus]

[deleted]

[rice guru]

7 minutes ago, Magus said:

What difference does "fully balanced" even actually make? I heard it makes your headphones able to get louder? But I can't even use my Magni 3 at maximum listening volume without damaging my ears, even on 600 Ohm headphones, so I don't think I really need anything more powerful than that... with the SU-8 it'll be partially balanced anyway.

why Im honestly pusinbg for a cheaper very clean setup that is the geshelli labs stack you dont need to go with anything that expensive especially with the elex. 

[HumdrumPenguin]

8 minutes ago, Magus said:

What difference does "fully balanced" even actually make? I heard it makes your headphones able to get louder? But I can't even use my Magni 3 at maximum listening volume without damaging my ears, even on 600 Ohm headphones, so I don't think I really need anything more powerful than that... with the SU-8 it'll be partially balanced anyway.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-balanced-headphone-outputs-are-better

[rice guru]

The Geshelli labs stack should have pure and clean performance you are looking for as well especially PCM