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ONOTech

EA is banning Linux Gamers in Battlefield 5

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EA release an audio CD that you can only play in Ford cars. Stupid move because there are so many other cars out there, and cars are so expensive that someone isn't going to buy a Ford just to play the audio CD.

 

EA doesn't have to put the investment into making their stuff work on linux because so many machines are already windows (most people are driving Ford) and if someone's going to pony for a game they really want to play, then a few hundred bucks to buy a windows gaming machine isn't too drastic.

 

As PC prices have dropped into console territory, EA no doubt feel that they're on tried and tested ground. But they're running a dangerous game.

 

When Adobe stuffed their services in the cloud and charged a subscription their profits soared, - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/12/13/adobe_q4_2019/ -  others followed suit including microsoft. Ongoing subscriptions are a lot better than a one off purchase price for an operating system that they have to then maintain for years on end. Hence Office 365, gaming, etc. is moving to the cloud. That makes them device independent.

 

The only remaining question is whether Microsoft see the value in keeping windows as a loss leader, or whether they give up on Windows because anyone can access the cloud services from any platform... and they'd have to make it a loss leader, because if they then charged a subscription for windows, that would be a step too far for people. Of course, they could (and have for some commercial licenses) tie the windows subscription into the other subscriptions, like your O365... but in the consumer world that would be unlikely to survive an anti-competition probe ... IE baked into Windows, anyone?

 

I can't see a commercial future for Windows as a consumer desktop OS which has to make a profit, in a world where everything has gone to cloud. ... except power gaming, and that proposition might change once everyone has fast enough connections that latency is not an issue for enough people commercially. People like me in the sticks will never be more than a pimple on the commercial argument.

 

Linux already runs on all the top 500 supercomputers (hey Linus, how about playing counter strike on Summit? Think you can get Big Blue to swing that for you?!) - https://itsfoss.com/linux-runs-top-supercomputers/ and ARM is making it down to the datacentre... all be it slowly... https://www.nextplatform.com/2019/02/20/arm-goes-to-war-in-the-datacenter-with-aries-designs/ ... (Windows on ARM? Only useful if you're running headless IMHO) plus a chunk of mobile phone gaming is already Linux including Apple entering the fray ... at this rate the casual gamer is going to have no need to touch Windows. It's perfectly possible right now, for someone to go cradle to grave and never need to touch Windows except commercially.

 

Windows will likely persist in the office as long as M$ is making enough through combined licenses to make it worth maintaining a desktop OS... and that will likely be the only reason why Windows survives for the consumer space. We're also heading for a recession... tech is being encouraged to move out of China - https://techpinions.com/tech-manufacturing-moving-out-of-china-at-rapid-rate/56664 - and with China now working on their own mobile operating systems and environments (along with Russia moving along the same lines) - that means the cost of tech in the West could actually rise as things decentralise and separate... which will see an increase in pressure on the household budget... and hence subscriptions... and hence more people who don't seriously game, being willing to handle the learning curve that is Linux. A number of my friends have already switched to Libre Office and are keeping files locally, rather than pony for the office subscriptions.

 

So... the way things are looking now, EA ignoring Linux is a death move for the company if they've got longetivity in mind. If they're short term, take the money and run, however... then the whole thing is a pile of meh. But as a gamer who has firm favourites and loves to play them (I loaded up Black and White 2 collectors edition on my linux box two weeks ago, and I'm enjoying it all over again) ... then there's no way I'm putting more money into EA's pockets. Especially as my own money is being squeezed and I can't maintain multiple subscriptions for different entertainment services anyway. Yes, there are exclusives that I'm going to miss unless I'm signed up to every single service, but I can't fork out that kind of money. It's personal financial suicide.

 

Don't get me wrong... there's a chunk of cheap games that I'll throw a few bucks at, play, put down and never touch again... but there's a handful of classics that I really enjoy and will go to a reasonable extent to play them. I have three BBC B micros here, along with 4 original XBox consoles (all modded - I now have enough spares to last me my life) and a MiSTer FPGA system. I was using it to play Krusty's Super Fun House on the SNES two days ago. I mean... I'm full to the brim with the pick of decades worth of games that I enjoy now, and will be enjoying for years to come as long as I take care of my kit.

 

EA? Windows only? Subscription? No thanks. I can't see the future in it personally. Nor can I see a future for EA with their current outlook on the market. More gamers are going to dribble over to Linux for various reasons in the coming years... especially as other software houses up their support for linux... EA will be left as the lone elf on the shelf... everyone's driving Teslas and no one wants to fork out for a Ford just to play their CD.

 

(for the record, I don't drive either of them.)

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24 minutes ago, msknight said:

EA ignoring Linux is a death move for the company if they've got longetivity in mind. If they're short term

Quote

Nor can I see a future for EA with their current outlook on the market

 

Multiplayer games such as these are literally the definition of short term. when battlefield 6 comes out, people will move to that and BF5 will dwindle down to a hand-full of servers just like every other battlefield game has.

 

Linux is a loooong way from being a competing market share holder where it would be viable for companies to start supporting it

image.thumb.png.9e2a045edd92530a83deedab96d31dd1.png

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

 

 

so, not quite the "death sentence" you make it out to be. if anything they would benefit more from supporting gaming on MacOS well before Linux.

 

Gaming on Linux is a catch 22.

Developers want more people on linux before the start adding support for it in their games.

Gamers wont move over to Linux until Developers add support for their games.

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9 minutes ago, Arika S said:

so, not quite the "death sentence" you make it out to be. if anything they would benefit more from supporting gaming on MacOS well before Linux.

 

Gaming on Linux is a catch 22.

Developers want more people on linux before the start adding support for it in their games.

Gamers wont move over to Linux until Developers add support for their games.

It's not the here and now that matters. It's the coming years, and all the things are lined up for the desktop operating system to become more or less irrelevant... and that's where the cost of supporting a desktop OS doesn't make commercial sense (except for Apple) unless you tie it to something else, like a cloud subscription. "We're going to start charging for Windows on a monthly basis, but if you subscribe to O365, you'll get it for free." ... which is already done with commercial licenses. The question is, whether consumers will pay the subscription, and from what I'm seeing, people would rather go local and open source, rather than stump up the cash for yet another subscription. So yes... death sentence... unless commercial interests keep windows alive and the consumer will be a tag-along.

 

If they move to support MacOS, then it's a shorter step to supporting Linux... at least through Vulkan.

 

Gaming is only a catch 22 as long as linux is low in number... and that's my point. Other commercial forces will tip the desktop balance.

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12 minutes ago, msknight said:

and that's where the cost of supporting a desktop OS doesn't make commercial sense (except for Apple) unless you tie it to something else, like a cloud subscription. "We're going to start charging for Windows on a monthly basis, but if you subscribe to O365, you'll get it for free."

Companies like Microsoft are not stupid enough to let that happen. Windows 10 is already essentially free and supported by the Windows store purchases and that side business, lots of Windows PC owners already do have Office subscriptions, no need to force it.

And people do pay for convenience, even assuming you had to pay the retail price for Windows (since it's included with every prebuilt computer almost no one needs that) not only is it a one-time purchase (there hasn't been a paid upgrade since 2015) but many will consider it worth over the hassles of linux.

  

8 hours ago, Sauron said:

only if we all understand that this is wrong will anything ever be done to prevent it.

Absolutely true, but neither one person nor talk on this forum can prevent it. Nothing will happen unless a significant dent in the income of such companies can be made, and that dent to be clearly linked to that issue. For that it would take a major association of hundreds of thousands of people to federate.

  

8 hours ago, Sauron said:

Did you not read the part about version juggling? It would still be better than what they're doing now, which is jack shit.

As a company it's generally viewed that providing a poor experience is worse than providing none at all.


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1 minute ago, msknight said:

It's not the here and now that matters. It's the coming years, and all the things are lined up for the desktop operating system to become more or less irrelevant... and that's where the cost of supporting a desktop OS doesn't make commercial sense (except for Apple) unless you tie it to something else, like a cloud subscription. "We're going to start charging for Windows on a monthly basis, but if you subscribe to O365, you'll get it for free." ... which is already done with commercial licenses. The question is, whether consumers will pay the subscription, and from what I'm seeing, people would rather go local and open source, rather than stump up the cash for yet another subscription. So yes... death sentence... unless commercial interests keep windows alive and the consumer will be a tag-along.

 

If they move to support MacOS, then it's a shorter step to supporting Linux... at least through Vulkan.

 

Gaming is only a catch 22 as long as linux is low in number... and that's my point. Other commercial forces will tip the desktop balance.

You're putting a lot of faith on the general population that already show they will happily pay more for the convenience factor.

 

Until Linux becomes more like windows, people are going to avoid it because it's different. But even besides that, subscriptions are already so heavily ingrained into current services, that a large majority of people will just wear it. the people that don't know much about computers or even what an OS is, will see it as a good thing, not a bad thing, because that's exactly how it will be marketed.

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9 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Companies like Microsoft are not stupid enough to let that happen. Windows 10 is already essentially free and supported by the Windows store purchases and that side business, lots of Windows PC owners already do have Office subscriptions, no need to force it.

How many? What's the revenue from those subscriptions? It's got more than a hundred million commercial users, but what's the number for consumers? Is it enough for MS to want to keep the desktop alive for the consumer?

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6 minutes ago, Arika S said:

You're putting a lot of faith on the general population that already show they will happily pay more for the convenience factor.

 

Until Linux becomes more like windows, people are going to avoid it because it's different. But even besides that, subscriptions are already so heavily ingrained into current services, that a large majority of people will just wear it. the people that don't know much about computers or even what an OS is, will see it as a good thing, not a bad thing, because that's exactly how it will be marketed.

The general populations willingness to pay for the convenience factor is already being tested. "24% — say that they "already have too many online TV subscriptions." That figure is up from 14% just a single year earlier, which should be a big warning sign to new streaming services that there really isn't much room for them, and there will likely be even less for the foreseeable future." - https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamrowe1/2019/05/29/24-of-consumers-say-they-have-too-many-streaming-tv-subscriptions/ - There's only so much money in the household budget.

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5 minutes ago, msknight said:

How many? What's the revenue from those subscriptions? It's got more than a hundred billion commercial users, but what's the number for consumers? Is it enough for MS to want to keep the desktop alive for the consumer?

Certainly. It all ties in together, even the sales of their business/corporate solutions are tied to consumers being accustomed to Windows.

 

Same as Apple back in the day gave very substantial discounts to schools for macs, becasue they knew kids who learnt to use macs at school would be likely to then buy macs a few years later when they had to get a computer.

  

3 minutes ago, msknight said:

The general populations willingness to pay for the convenience factor is already being tested. "24% — say that they "already have too many online TV subscriptions." 

It's very different, that's people paying many subscriptions simultaneously for essentially the same thing, and that each of these is tied with 90% of stuff they don't even care about in the first place. 


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1 minute ago, Kilrah said:

It's very different, that's people paying many subscriptions for essentially the same thing. 

I'd argue that it isn't. Gaming, films, it's all entertainment and there's a limited household budget for subscriptions wherever it's spent. In the old days $300 would get you a household PC to run for three to five years. Now, it's $300 for the hardware (as the software was subsidised) and an extra $70 a year for a O365 personal subscription, $100 for a family or $250 for a home business. (1TB total storage, except business where storage isn't included) - suddenly for a family computer, that $300 purchase for 4 years is now $700... and the risk of losing data if you don't continue the subscription.

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42 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Same as Apple back in the day gave very substantial discounts to schools for mac

Well they still do and on software too, Apple VPP education licenses.

 

Quote

VPP also allows developers to offer special pricing for education institutions. You can receive a 50% discount for app purchases of quantity 20 or more.

https://www.apple.com/au/education/docs/VPP_Education_Guide_EN_Oct13.pdf

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3 hours ago, msknight said:

Linux already runs on all the top 500 supercomputers (hey Linus, how about playing counter strike on Summit? Think you can get Big Blue to swing that for you?!) - https://itsfoss.com/linux-runs-top-supercomputers/ and ARM is making it down to the datacentre... all be it slowly... https://www.nextplatform.com/2019/02/20/arm-goes-to-war-in-the-datacenter-with-aries-designs/ ... (Windows on ARM? Only useful if you're running headless IMHO) plus a chunk of mobile phone gaming is already Linux including Apple entering the fray ... at this rate the casual gamer is going to have no need to touch Windows. It's perfectly possible right now, for someone to go cradle to grave and never need to touch Windows except commercially.

Wow, supercomputers use Linux. Is this the news from the 90's? Also good luck trying to run even Pacman on supercomputer and then the same build on anything else (all that performance really doesn't transfer well into general workloads leave alone trying to run common software in those environments). Also calling Android Linux is like calling iOS FreeBSD (or did you mean those couple tries to make Linux-phone so even Stallman could finally buy a mobile phone, which he won't because the government might track him through mobile base stations, from which both won't see any more than marginal marketshare because lack of features and high as hell prices).

Also the casual "gamer" hasn't touched Winblows for around 15 years now. Consoles (from which none is even close to be even as open as Winblows), mobile and Facebook have been the platforms for casual gamers since FarmVille became a thing and smartphones broke through to mass markets.

 

Quote

Windows will likely persist in the office as long as M$ is making enough through combined licenses to make it worth maintaining a desktop OS... and that will likely be the only reason why Windows survives for the consumer space. We're also heading for a recession... tech is being encouraged to move out of China - https://techpinions.com/tech-manufacturing-moving-out-of-china-at-rapid-rate/56664 - and with China now working on their own mobile operating systems and environments (along with Russia moving along the same lines) - that means the cost of tech in the West could actually rise as things decentralise and separate... which will see an increase in pressure on the household budget... and hence subscriptions... and hence more people who don't seriously game, being willing to handle the learning curve that is Linux. A number of my friends have already switched to Libre Office and are keeping files locally, rather than pony for the office subscriptions.

M$ has already made their move on the future of Winblows. You can kind of see it under the same business model as WinRar: Consumers have few caveats they can remove by paying but most of the money comes from business licenses. And oh! Do I see the "1995...2000...2005...2010...2015.2016...2020: The year when Linux became the most used consumer PC operating system!" -slogan, well good for you, I guess.

 

Quote

So... the way things are looking now, EA ignoring Linux is a death move for the company if they've got longetivity in mind. If they're short term, take the money and run, however... then the whole thing is a pile of meh. But as a gamer who has firm favourites and loves to play them (I loaded up Black and White 2 collectors edition on my linux box two weeks ago, and I'm enjoying it all over again) ... then there's no way I'm putting more money into EA's pockets. Especially as my own money is being squeezed and I can't maintain multiple subscriptions for different entertainment services anyway. Yes, there are exclusives that I'm going to miss unless I'm signed up to every single service, but I can't fork out that kind of money. It's personal financial suicide.

 

Don't get me wrong... there's a chunk of cheap games that I'll throw a few bucks at, play, put down and never touch again... but there's a handful of classics that I really enjoy and will go to a reasonable extent to play them. I have three BBC B micros here, along with 4 original XBox consoles (all modded - I now have enough spares to last me my life) and a MiSTer FPGA system. I was using it to play Krusty's Super Fun House on the SNES two days ago. I mean... I'm full to the brim with the pick of decades worth of games that I enjoy now, and will be enjoying for years to come as long as I take care of my kit.

Well, hard to break it for you, but you aren't in the consumer segment EA and most of the game publishers are even interested about. You probably aren't even interested about the yearly games they pump out (which are their bread and butter, while gamers are screaming how EA goes down with the Anthem and the few tens of millions they lost with it, NHL, FIFA and Madden 20s are still money makers and extremely successful in that, like it or don't). Even I'm far from the ideal consumer segment that the game publishers watch since retro gaming and getting the newest games from sales and paying for Humble Monthly Choice aren't the way they want to sell their crap.

 

Quote

EA? Windows only? Subscription? No thanks. I can't see the future in it personally. Nor can I see a future for EA with their current outlook on the market. More gamers are going to dribble over to Linux for various reasons in the coming years... especially as other software houses up their support for linux... EA will be left as the lone elf on the shelf... everyone's driving Teslas and no one wants to fork out for a Ford just to play their CD.

"Hey! Linux is going to take over soon!" Now already? It has only been 30 years taking over the consumer segment and gamers. While it would be great to get it up but I don't think it will happen in the next 5 years, maybe even 10. The stars are just not aligned right for it even with Valve developing Proton. More or less the consoles will take more markets (and compared to them Winblows PC is closer to Linux than them, leave alone talking about FOSS) and mobile gaming continues its rise. Cloud gaming might come in few years but Stadias "great" launch and even still questionable working proves that it also might take few years and hopefully GeForce NOW style services will take the lead. PC gaming will probably continue its route to be more open for indie and smaller publishers and the eSport platform and things probably will stay pretty much as they are unless someone does something stupid or something extremely radical and succeed in it (and while Valves Proton shows that Linux is also gaming platform, the thing is Proton is just glorified WINE so it will still take time before the bigger game developers will start to build Linux versions). The outlook of the market is still that while Linux runs from toasters to supercomputers, it still has that 2-5% marketshare in consumer PCs and it still has its old caveats and since recently few extras (to name one Nvidia stopping the support almost completely).

 

What comes to the actual topic. Well, what did they expect? EA has been the laziest bumhole for a long time and asking actually working anti-cheat from them is stupid and trying it with running the game unsupported is a gamble. And it's totally legal for them to do so, nothing you can do for that. Are they assholes while doing this? Yes, extremely but what else did you expect from EA? They manage to release one game that isn't pure shit and peeing to the cereals of the gamers and everybody suddenly forgets that it's still the same old EA that made the worst SW Battlefront II and other crap games.

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5 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

alling Android Linux is like calling iOS FreeBSD

It is BSD, apple only put a fancy but unusable gui on top of it. Just like how android is linux, otherwise userland for instance wouldnt be able to function....

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3 hours ago, Kilrah said:

Nothing will happen unless a significant dent in the income of such companies can be made, and that dent to be clearly linked to that issue.

Legislation could make it happen pretty easily.


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Sauron'stm Product Scores:

Spoiler

Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

Spoiler

A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

-Apple Macbook (2015) - [Garbage -/10]

Spoiler

From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

Spoiler

A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

Spoiler

Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

Spoiler

Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

-Apple iPad Pro - [5/10]

Spoiler

A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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By the time the 'year of the Linux desktop' comes, Desktops will be irrelevant and we'll all be using smart-glasses with laser beams.

 

That said, I've been firmly in the 'don't buy EA games because they're twunts,' camp since 2004 when they screwed up Ultima Online. For real, £15 a month + pre-microtransaction-microtransactions for a game that was released 1997? Sounds like a long time to hold a grudge, but I've never seen any reason to buy an EA game since. They're just a really big, mean, crappy corporation with too much money.

 

Ignoring the piddly little Linux market share argument, I do live in hope a couple more Battlefront II debacles could leave consumers deserting EA entirely. I mean, it's not like they have made any great games that have sold well this last few years, right? Right?

 

*Looks at Jedi Fallen Order.*

 

Ah, feck it.

 

Vote with your wallets, people. It's the only thing you can do.


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On 1/3/2020 at 10:23 AM, HarryNyquist said:

> not officially supported on Linux
> hacks to make it work on Linux
> banned for hacking

 

Seems legit to me.

Because only hackers and pirates use linux ??

 

If linux was so evil why is valve openly supporting it?

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Are they in the rights i am pretty certain they are since i know what can be done to some program from something that get the handle of the DX context object. If they ban knowing for a fact that the software in question breaking the "rules" is translating the graphic call to another library so they get more users i find it pretty cheap.

 

If they coded how i think they did and that's the reason why they are banning the use of the DX to Vulkan converter then they shouldn't code there games that way.

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