Self Driving Cars Debate

[Safeer Hafi]

So basically i have to give a talk about self driving cars in my school. I know what the benefits for self driving cars are, but i need to know some disadvantageous.

Could someone tell me some disadvantageous about self driving cars but also have a counter argument because i cant think of any. 

Here are some disadvantages:

-Hacking

-Expensive 

-Loss of jobs eg Taxi Drivers

Any counter arguments so the above would be a great help

 

 

Many Thanks 

[Commodus]

Sorry to respond this way, but you really shouldn't be asking us to do your homework for you.  Part of why you're being asked to give a talk is so that you learn how to conduct thorough research on your own, and asking people on a forum doesn't accomplish that.

[TetraSky]

Would be expensive for cities to implement it properly.

Because while currently cars have all the sensors built in, ideally in some cities, especially in the great white north, external sensors built around the city would likely be preferable to tell the cars where the road is (with snow on it), pedestrians and what not. To allow the system to predict ahead of time where there's a lot of traffic in order to avoid it and what not. But this would mean that outside of cities, you likely wouldn't have access to such external sensors.

 

Then there's the whole privacy issue, if your car has a ton of cameras hooked onto it, who is to say it doesn't have other things like a microphone for the inside of the vehicle and sending that data back to "big brother" ... Then again if that were the case, it would likely be discovered by "hackers" soon enough and nobody would be buying the car in question.

 

Overall I personally don't see these as a big "negative" against self driving cars, due to the overall benefits they would be offering in the first place... Just that it really would be harder for these to work anywhere there is snow, even if they rely on GPS to determine where the roads are, things like construction work and what not that blocks out the path couldn't be detected ahead of time and you'd basically get stuck.

[Artherion]

36 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

... Then again if that were the case, it would likely be discovered by "hackers" soon enough and nobody would be buying the car in question.

Its already possible and i don't see any decline in new cars

[Zodiark1593]

3 hours ago, Commodus said:

Sorry to respond this way, but you really shouldn't be asking us to do your homework for you.  Part of why you're being asked to give a talk is so that you learn how to conduct thorough research on your own, and asking people on a forum doesn't accomplish that.

At the very least, I'd like some $$$ out of it if someone wants me to do their assignments. A "Negative Morality" charge will also be levied.

 

The mixing of both self-driving and normal vehicles will be a significant hurdle as older vehicles will probably not be able to commune with self-driving vehicles at all.

[danomicar]

5 hours ago, safeerhafiz74 said:

So basically i have to give a talk about self driving cars in my school. I know what the benefits for self driving cars are, but i need to know some disadvantageous.

Could someone tell me some disadvantageous about self driving cars but also have a counter argument because i cant think of any. 

Here are some disadvantages:

-Hacking

-Expensive 

-Loss of jobs eg Taxi Drivers

Any counter arguments so the above would be a great help

 

 

Many Thanks 

Personal Pros for self driving vehicles, in no particular order:

• Safer, no more human error
• Makes transportation cheaper and thus more widely available
• Opportunity to consolidate the number of vehicles on the road
  • Ex. Self Driving buses, car pooling
• More efficient driving, especially if all other cars on the road are also autonomous

 

Cons:

• In it's current state, it's difficult for an ai to predict the actions of human drivers on the road
• software glitches which may cause accidents
• Who is legally responsible for an accident between a human & AI, or AI & AI?
• Assuming everyone has their own personal vehicle, there may be more traffic on the roads.

 

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, safeerhafiz74 said:

So basically i have to give a talk about self driving cars in my school. I know what the benefits for self driving cars are, but i need to know some disadvantageous.

Could someone tell me some disadvantageous about self driving cars but also have a counter argument because i cant think of any. 

Here are some disadvantages:

-Hacking

-Expensive 

-Loss of jobs eg Taxi Drivers

Any counter arguments so the above would be a great help

 

 

Many Thanks 

Please don't ask the internet to do your homework. You may get trolled for it.

 

Here's the main advantages and disadvantages, off-the-cuff. Automatic driving needs to be compared to automatic trail transit.

 

 Advantages:

-No Drivers License

-No Driving Experience

-Seniors and Disabled have their independence

-A good AI will never have accidents or at the minimum make decisions to save the passengers over the exterior influences.

-Gets rid of the need to know how to get from place to place (eg taxi's)

-Allows 24/7 operation of a vehicle 

 

Disadvantages:

-Additional expense over traditional vehicles

-Requires GPS Line of site

-Requires Cameras

-Requires LIDAR

-Requires the AI to be trained to drive on specific roads

-Changes and construction have to be relearned

-Requires reliable city information (for example most GPS maps are out of date and require expensive updates.)

-Requires reliable 3G/4G/5G networks for real-time mapping. This generally means that places with unreliable or no coverage have to rely on stored data, and stored data may be out of date and can't deal with construction and road changes.

-May require expensive insurance

 

In general automated vehicles are more likely to replace Taxi/Ridehailing(Uber/Lyft)/Bus services, and long-haul logistics. They will likely not replace regular cars without getting major cities like NYC, LA, Toronto, Vancouver to standardize on one municipal car communication network so that no GPS +  mobile/wifi networks are required to navigate the city. With Logistics (think Fedex/UPS/Amazon and such) the long haul may become automated, but ultimately it's to make it so vehicles can run 24/7 without drivers succumbing to sleep deprivation.

 

[amdorintel]

10 hours ago, safeerhafiz74 said:

So basically i have to give a talk about self driving cars in my school. I know what the benefits for self driving cars are, but i need to know some disadvantageous.

I dont mind doing your homework for you.

 

One advantage is that the user of self driving cars can be stoned and/or drunk and be able to get home without the hassle of crashing or being stopped by the fuzz. Mothers Against Drunk Driving would argue that would be a disadvantage, but either way it is a safer way to get home from the bar at 2am when you dont really want to waste your hard earned money on an Uber or a Taxi.

 

Disadvantages are, who is responsible for liability when the sensors mess up. Who in the car is responsible. Is there still a steering wheel, what if no one is sitting in that seat.

[Safeer Hafi]

21 hours ago, Commodus said:

Sorry to respond this way, but you really shouldn't be asking us to do your homework for you.  Part of why you're being asked to give a talk is so that you learn how to conduct thorough research on your own, and asking people on a forum doesn't accomplish that.

If you dont want to help don’t say anything.

[Geoff35674567]

look up news stories of people vandalizing self driving cars. There you will find quotes from real people who are failing to co-exist with them. From memory people were complaining they drive slow, stop randomly, and are just bad drivers. Recently I heard one big issue is cars cant fix themselves. If they get a flat they stop. They wont drive onto a foot path or onto grass to get out of traffic. they just stop and annoy everyone.

 

Personally, I am waiting for pizza delivery drones. I'll be waiting for free pizza on my street corner at night with a bed sheet ready to catch any robot that comes past.

 

 

 

 

[Teddy07]

22 hours ago, safeerhafiz74 said:

Loss of jobs eg Taxi Drivers

You could say that about many inventions and yet people are not jobless because they are able to adapt.

 

Advantage: Self driving cars will lead to more road safety because they will abide by traffic regulation.
I am a cyclist and nobody cares about the minimum spacing when overtaking a cyclist. I am sure self driving cars will not be that reckless because car manufacturer will avoid being liable for accidents due to traffic violations.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, safeerhafiz74 said:

If you dont want to help don’t say anything.

Sorry to be blunt, but I'll clarify: no one here should be helping you.  I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm saying that because you're defeating the point of the assignment by asking us to do your homework for you.  You won't be ready for real-life work (or tougher school assignments) if you don't know how to research these subjects on your own.

[Safeer Hafi]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Sorry to be blunt, but I'll clarify: no one here should be helping you.  I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm saying that because you're defeating the point of the assignment by asking us to do your homework for you.  You won't be ready for real-life work (or tougher school assignments) if you don't know how to research these subjects on your own.

Listen. I know your trying to be nice but im in year 11. i can do my own research but its just that i cant find anything. Asking people is always me last resort 

[Zodiark1593]

3 hours ago, Teddy07 said:

You could say that about many inventions and yet people are not jobless because they are able to adapt.

 

Advantage: Self driving cars will lead to more road safety because they will abide by traffic regulation.
I am a cyclist and nobody cares about the minimum spacing when overtaking a cyclist. I am sure self driving cars will not be that reckless because car manufacturer will avoid being liable for accidents due to traffic violations.

I've seen borderline suicidal cyclists riding along blind corners of a 55 mph highway. On highway 49 in particular, bike lanes are practically nonexistent, and the average speed of motorists here (on the stretch between Lotus and Cool) are actually closer to 65-70 mph (no speed enforcement takes place). A great many close calls have occured on 49. I was very nearly hit head on myself in a blind turn by a motorist overtaking a cyclist. Granted, the cyclist was probably still legally in the right, but at some point, I would think some sense of self-preservation comes into effect. To make things worse, hills are abundant here.

 

For that matter, the other roads in this area were seemingly designed with zero Fs given to cyclists, which is a problem for both cyclists (blind corners, speeding traffic and no room) and motorists (limited visibility to react to cyclists, again many people exceed the speed limit by 25%-50% as deer does more enforcement than police).

 

 There's a couple areas where road visibility is better, though limited room and winding roadways makes safe overtaking sometimes impossible. Though more level roadways (and a long downhill) makes for overall faster speeds anyway, so there's little point.

 

All that said, I would love to use a Bicycle for going to town. The distance is just right for it. I just like cycling in general and miss it. It's just that the roads are far too inhospitable to ever consider it.

[amdorintel]

On 12/14/2019 at 8:08 AM, safeerhafiz74 said:

Loss of jobs

yeah when people get pulled over for dui/dwi they sometimes lose their job, which puts a total strain on the family unit. if those drunk drivers are driving for a living, then they lose their career, which is even worse.

 

i think self driving cars/trucks/suv's are the wave of the future. i wonder though if two driverless vehicles get into an accident who is to blame. say one is driving over the line a tad, while another one is too.

[Kisai]

42 minutes ago, amdorintel said:

yeah when people get pulled over for dui/dwi they sometimes lose their job, which puts a total strain on the family unit. if those drunk drivers are driving for a living, then they lose their career, which is even worse.

 

i think self driving cars/trucks/suv's are the wave of the future. i wonder though if two driverless vehicles get into an accident who is to blame. say one is driving over the line a tad, while another one is too.

In theory, that will just never be a possible scenario short of bad weather.

 

Those vehicles are supposed to be communicating with each other, reporting their position so that they don't hit each other and for fleet teaming (eg having all the cars equally spaced apart following behind each other.) 

 

https://www.atkinsglobal.com/en-gb/angles/all-angles/autonomous-vs-connected-vehicles-whats-the-difference

Quote

The United States Department of Transportation (USDOT) has been working on a CV program that communicates within a radio spectrum specifically allocated by the Federal Communications Commission in 1999 for this purpose. And by the end of this year, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration will propose a rule mandating inclusion of 5.9 GHz-based equipment in all new vehicles to make them CV-ready. This technology has the potential to eliminate 80 percent of unimpaired crash scenarios that could save tens of thousands of lives each year.

 

https://www.its.dot.gov/pilots/index.htm

Quote

As a first step, each site spent 12 months preparing a comprehensive deployment concept to ensure rapid and efficient connected vehicle capability roll-out. The sites are now completing a 24 month phase to design, build, and test these deployments of integrated wireless in-vehicle, mobile device, and roadside technologies. As of Fall 2018, the sites are entering into the third phase of the deployment where the tested connected vehicle systems will be operational for a minimum 18-month period and system impact will be monitored on a set of key performance measures.

So we should be hearing about this sometime soon.

https://www.its.dot.gov/pilots/pdf/NYCVP_SiteOperationalReadinessWebinar.pdf

 

Page 6 of the following report answers the OP's questions.

 

https://www.atkinsglobal.com/~/media/Files/A/Atkins-Corporate/north-america/sectors-documents/highways-and-bridges/library-docs/brochures/CAV_Report-NorthAmerica_v2.pdf

 

Quote

The Benefits of CAVs:

Safety

Over 90% of accidents involve driver error. The ability of AVs to perform repetitive tasks reliably (such as those encountered in stop and go traffic), without experiencing fatigue, makes them superior to human drivers for certain functions. By greatly reducing the opportunity for human error, AV technologies have the potential to significantly reduce the number of crashes.

 

Reduced congestion

Through connected and automated technologies, vehicles could drive closer together, which would increase roadway capacity without impacting safety since machines can help maintain much shorter following distances between vehicles compared to human drivers and still be safe. We cannot keep building roads and adding lanes to meet demand, so CAV will be the vital next big step for increasing capacity.

 

Improved emissions

Vehicle platooning reduces air resistance for following vehicles, and traffic signal information could lead to more optimized speeds, two examples of ways in which emissions can be reduced.

 

Time

In many situations, humans have other tasks to manage: work, kids, school. If drivers aren’t driving, they can be working or reading or watching television!

 

Equity

Anyone can use a self-driving car. Disabled, younger or older people would all have increased mobility, surely one of the greatest potential benefits of CAVs. Of course this could greatly increase demand, and potentially change our relationship with cars.

 

Improved road design

Improved safety could eliminate the need for crash barriers, and roadway signs could be replaced with in-vehicle information – making our roads less cluttered and more attractive. In addition, lane sizes could be reduced while allowing greater through-put of traffic and less space would be needed for parking lots and spaces.

 

[amdorintel]

by the time self driving cars are 50% of the vehicles on the road

i will still prefer my stock 1969 frame up stang or my 1979 4x4 twinstick with 44's and d60's

hopefully no government bs will take away my wanting to be a real man, and drive a freaking vehicle myself

 

 

 

tyvm

 

 

[Zodiark1593]

41 minutes ago, amdorintel said:

by the time self driving cars are 50% of the vehicles on the road

i will still prefer my stock 1969 frame up stang or my 1979 4x4 twinstick with 44's and d60's

hopefully no government bs will take away my wanting to be a real man, and drive a freaking vehicle myself

 

 

 

tyvm

 

 

Could just start a gradual phasing out by making license renewal more stringent, and reducing the issuance of new licenses. Those with good records being grandfathered in, pretty much.

[amdorintel]

less government is better imho!

[Nine Tailed Fox]

Can't wait till all cars are required to have it imo

[mr moose]

14 hours ago, safeerhafiz74 said:

Listen. I know your trying to be nice but im in year 11. i can do my own research but its just that i cant find anything. Asking people is always me last resort 

Don't listen to them,  It's not like you are asking them to do a math problem, you are asking for opinions on a controversial topic.

I would call surveying people  proper data collection.

On 12/15/2019 at 12:24 PM, amdorintel said:

 

Disadvantages are, who is responsible for liability when the sensors mess up. Who in the car is responsible. Is there still a steering wheel, what if no one is sitting in that seat.

this is where I have problems, human error is not intentional, no one can be blamed for not thinking quick enough, not reacting with the speed of a computer or just human frailty in many cases.    But as soon as you have a computer that has to make a decision and someone dies,  how it made that decision becomes a very problematic issue. 

 

 

[Animal901]

On 12/14/2019 at 9:08 AM, safeerhafiz74 said:

So basically i have to give a talk about self driving cars in my school. I know what the benefits for self driving cars are, but i need to know some disadvantageous.

Could someone tell me some disadvantageous about self driving cars but also have a counter argument because i cant think of any. 

Here are some disadvantages:

-Hacking

-Expensive 

-Loss of jobs eg Taxi Drivers

Any counter arguments so the above would be a great help

 

 

Many Thanks 

Self driving cars are already killing people.  Haven't you heard of Steven king's maximum overdrive?

 

Electric cars are the future.  Gasoline cars will turn into something only usable over 500 miles.

[1963SS]

As a retired Electrical Engineer I'll say reliability is an issue. I've been around and active in electronics since the 4004, 8088, 8086 processors were introduced. I've always heard about the increased reliability of electronics and it's true.  With only a very few self-driving cars on the road we are hearing of accidents. Multiply that by a factor of one million and a lot more of them are going to be playing bumper cars. Commercial airliners have multiple redundancies built in along with every other safety feature we know of and they still experience electronics failures that are sometimes catastrophic.

 

I made a real good living for a lot of years repairing electronics that weren't supposed to break. If we become complacent and allow electronics to drive our cars what will happen if our 70 MPH Electromobile XS gets hit by lightning. Something will likely go "Poof" and we may slingshot into oncoming traffic before we can take manual control.

 

I have a small block Chevy car and also have a BMW 535i. The BMW blows electronic stuff up all the time just because it can. The Chevy keeps on running. If the Germans can't make electronics reliable then the rest of the world, except maybe Japan, is in a world of trouble. Talk about the ultimate distracted driving. Hell, we can't even drive to the store without checking our messages and writing a half dozen texts.

 

I believe if self-driving cars were operated properly they could help reduce accident rates and be an added safety feature but we will become too complacent and take for granted that the car knows best...….until it doesn't.  Human nature and not technology will be the biggest fault and no computer can know the endless possibilities of stupid that we are capable of.     IMHO.

[elektronikfreak]

I'm very suspicious at self driving cars... and busses... and trucks. I know Swedish Volvo is using self driving cars since a couple of years ago, but it's a matter of fact - I don't TRUST the electronic!!!