Xbox Series X

[Mihle]

7 hours ago, JZStudios said:

You don't "buy" the games. You pay to have a license awarded to you that they can revoke access to any time they like.

Australian and EU court disagrees with you.

[Mihle]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:02 AM, JZStudios said:

-snip-

So you think facts are wrong?

[Derangel]

12 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Apples trash can was partly because it was also cylindrical, and square/flat pcbs don't go well into that. My Fortress mini was fine when not chocked, and IIRC the Corsair is fine too.

 

"I can buy anywhere", nope, not if a PS4/Sony/Microsoft/Download only "exclusive". If a game company decides to go exclusive, it's down to the publishers or the games company (for selling their "soul"). Sorry, both platforms have the same problem! (I have multiple games that have Steam AND non-client DRM free downloads available, I only load up the steam version to connect to steam friends in game).

 

I'm guessing that Microsoft are doing it this way to try and force people to put it *outside* the cabinet, for better airflow (this is assuming a rear intake as well as underneath). As pushing 4k and raytracing that thing is gonna get HOT.

 

Hahahahahahaha. Yes, come back to me when your Nintendo dies and so you lose all your downloaded games and saves because "seamless DRM don't affect consoles".

 

 

Even in cases of download only console games you can still buy them in places that aren't the official digital store fronts of those systems. Walmart, for example, carries cards you can buy and redeem for digital games. Online retailers like Amazon and Green Man Gaming also sell digital console games. What's your point about exclusives? Are you seriously trying to imply that exclusive=DRM? Because that is insane and stupid.

 

If your games don't support cloud saves and your hard drive/sdd dies you will lose your saves as well. You don't lose your games if your Switch dies. You can get a new one and transfer everything over to it, even if the old one is dead. All purchased are tied to the account, not the consoles. Any games with cloud saves (and its stupid that all of them done, but that's another argument) will have saves transfer over as well. Also, funny that you pick Nintendo when this topic is about Microsoft. Perhaps you know the point is so flimsy you have to go off topic and try to get a "gotcha", despite proving your information is not up to date.

[Antistatic12]

I wonder what the SSD options will be? Will it be user upgradeable? How big?
I won't upgrade my TV until this comes out, because the variable refresh rate on the XBOX SX could be a game changer. Wait to see if TV's support it.
It would be nice if MS and Sony team up on the Variable refresh rate and use the same standard otherwise this could cause some issues

[porina]

Finding myself using the mute function on Twitter more than ever recently. Many have been trying to work out just how much GPU power there is and their conclusions are reaching "2080 Ti destroyer" levels. Now, if AMD really can do that, I will really look forward to the next gen desktop GPUs! Otherwise, I try to keep my salt intake limited.

[Derangel]

2 hours ago, Antistatic12 said:

I wonder what the SSD options will be? Will it be user upgradeable? How big?
I won't upgrade my TV until this comes out, because the variable refresh rate on the XBOX SX could be a game changer. Wait to see if TV's support it.
It would be nice if MS and Sony team up on the Variable refresh rate and use the same standard otherwise this could cause some issues

Considering the XBX and several X1S bundles come with 1TB HDD options already, MS really can't offer anything less than a 1TB SSD. I doubt either console will allow upgradable SSDs this time around. I expect both to use NvME drives, which means you'd need to disassemble the system in order to change it. MS has never offered user upgradable drives and while Sony has in the PS3 and PS4 going NvME would put a stop to it.

 

MS' VRR option will be supported by every TV that supports the VESA A-sync standard. The One already has VRR support and it works on the handful of VRR supporting TVs already out. If the PS5 supports VRR I can't imagine it will be any different, unless Sony decides to be monumentally stupid (which is always a possibility).

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, Derangel said:

doubt either console will allow upgradable SSDs this time around. I expect both to use NvME drives, which means you'd need to disassemble the system in order to change it. MS has never offered user upgradable drives and while Sony has in the PS3 and PS4 going NvME would put a stop to it.

Agreed, But I expect to see Xbox branded external SSD's. So I really dont think there will be an issue with storage space. 

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, Antistatic12 said:

I wonder what the SSD options will be? Will it be user upgradeable? How big?
I won't upgrade my TV until this comes out, because the variable refresh rate on the XBOX SX could be a game changer. Wait to see if TV's support it.
It would be nice if MS and Sony team up on the Variable refresh rate and use the same standard otherwise this could cause some issues

 

1 hour ago, Derangel said:

Considering the XBX and several X1S bundles come with 1TB HDD options already, MS really can't offer anything less than a 1TB SSD. I doubt either console will allow upgradable SSDs this time around. I expect both to use NvME drives, which means you'd need to disassemble the system in order to change it. MS has never offered user upgradable drives and while Sony has in the PS3 and PS4 going NvME would put a stop to it.

 

MS' VRR option will be supported by every TV that supports the VESA A-sync standard. The One already has VRR support and it works on the handful of VRR supporting TVs already out. If the PS5 supports VRR I can't imagine it will be any different, unless Sony decides to be monumentally stupid (which is always a possibility).

I would expect a 500GB option and larger options - the 500GB version will likely be the cheapest variant. 
 

I also expect 1TB and 2TB variants as well. 
 

I expect the SSD to be replaceable, but not necessarily easily. Just because it’s NVME means nothing - as long as it’s an M.2 formfactor, you might have to pop the case off. 
 

Whether they make it easier to replace software wise is a different question. I hope they go the PlayStation route and allow you to just drop a new blank SSD in, and the firmware will provision it and download the OS from the web.  That would be a good improvement over the not terrible but still somewhat convoluted current method. 

[JZStudios]

7 hours ago, Mihle said:

Australian and EU court disagrees with you.

Really? Steam shuts down tomorrow. I'd like to see what the courts could possibly say then.

And considering they can can your account for what they deem to be violating their TOS so you can't access it, it doesn't matter if they disagree.

7 hours ago, Mihle said:

So you think facts are wrong?

Only when they're incorrect, or people just blatantly misrepresent what was actually said.

 

5 hours ago, Antistatic12 said:

I wonder what the SSD options will be? Will it be user upgradeable? How big?
I won't upgrade my TV until this comes out, because the variable refresh rate on the XBOX SX could be a game changer. Wait to see if TV's support it.
It would be nice if MS and Sony team up on the Variable refresh rate and use the same standard otherwise this could cause some issues

That's an excellent question. It's relatively easy on the PS4, but the Series X claims to have faster I/O speeds too.

Pretty sure the VRR is just the AMD Freesync, which is an open "standard." As far as I know there's pretty much only Freesync or Gsync, and I think there's a thread talking about future Gsync monitors will also support Freesync.

3 hours ago, Derangel said:

MS has never offered user upgradable drives and while Sony has in the PS3 and PS4 going NvME would put a stop to it.

Umm... does the 360 ring any bells? Granted, they weren't standard hard drives, but it was a selling point and it was designed to do so.

 

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

I would expect a 500GB option and larger options - the 500GB version will likely be the cheapest variant. 

A 500gb variant already is a hard sell. With games like RDR2 and the new COD, that's only 3-4 games, which is just ridiculous. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but would be very annoying.

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Really? Steam shuts down tomorrow. I'd like to see what the courts could possibly say then.

And considering they can can your account for what they deem to be violating their TOS so you can't access it, it doesn't matter if they disagree.

Only when they're incorrect, or people just blatantly misrepresent what was actually said.

 

That's an excellent question. It's relatively easy on the PS4, but the Series X claims to have faster I/O speeds too.

Pretty sure the VRR is just the AMD Freesync, which is an open "standard." As far as I know there's pretty much only Freesync or Gsync, and I think there's a thread talking about future Gsync monitors will also support Freesync.

Umm... does the 360 ring any bells? Granted, they weren't standard hard drives, but it was a selling point and it was designed to do so.

 

A 500gb variant already is a hard sell. With games like RDR2 and the new COD, that's only 3-4 games, which is just ridiculous. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but would be very annoying.

I agree it’s a hard sell, but I bet they will bank on the “SSD being an upgrade” that to try and keep the price on the base model down, they’ll go 500GB. Bonus points if it’s not that hard to do your own swap. 
 

Now if the base model was 1TB? That’s be awesome, but I’m not counting on it. 

[redbread123]

On 12/12/2019 at 9:01 PM, JZStudios said:

The game has a 5 minute loading sequence to get in game. That's not what I consider instant loading, and that type of loading system has been around since at the very least the original Xbox.

 

Yep. I would've much preferred the typical flat and "deep" approach. I have my PS4 Pro on top of a cubby nicely underneath my desk. No way this thing is fitting there.

Also, with the top being oddly concave, just seems like it could've been that much shorter.

its to store your doritos and mtn dew like a pro gamer. cod at 4k

[Mihle]

23 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

 

Only when they're incorrect, or people just blatantly misrepresent what was actually said.

Of I said something that you don't think is correct then say what, so I can give you proof on those points.

[ravenshrike]

6 hours ago, porina said:

Finding myself using the mute function on Twitter more than ever recently. Many have been trying to work out just how much GPU power there is and their conclusions are reaching "2080 Ti destroyer" levels. Now, if AMD really can do that, I will really look forward to the next gen desktop GPUs! Otherwise, I try to keep my salt intake limited.

I wouldn't expect it to be much more powerful than the 5700XT in specs TBH. However with console optimization you're likely to see effective graphics capability in the long term on par with the 2080ti.

[Derangel]

5 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 

I would expect a 500GB option and larger options - the 500GB version will likely be the cheapest variant. 
 

I also expect 1TB and 2TB variants as well. 
 

I expect the SSD to be replaceable, but not necessarily easily. Just because it’s NVME means nothing - as long as it’s an M.2 formfactor, you might have to pop the case off. 
 

Whether they make it easier to replace software wise is a different question. I hope they go the PlayStation route and allow you to just drop a new blank SSD in, and the firmware will provision it and download the OS from the web.  That would be a good improvement over the not terrible but still somewhat convoluted current method. 

Games are only going to get bigger next gen. With both Sony and MS pushing 4K hard and with the increased power of these systems it's going to mean games are going to take up more and more space. I wouldn't be surprised to see 100+GB become the standard. At that point a 500GB drive is only going to hold 3 or 4 games, at max. I just don't see 500GB being an option here, especially if the rumored cheaper XSX variant is digital only.

 

Being able to pop the case off, is not exactly something either company wants people doing. If the drives are on the motherboard itself I just don't see either company allowing the drives to be easily upgraded. I would love to be wrong, especially as M.2 drives get cheaper and cheaper, but its a long shot.

 

4 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Umm... does the 360 ring any bells? Granted, they weren't standard hard drives, but it was a selling point and it was designed to do so.

Fair, though I wouldn't put it on the same level as what Sony has done the last couple generations. Not that it was impossible to bypass MS' stupid limitations, I had bigger than standard drives in my 360 at one point.

[TechyBen]

12 hours ago, Derangel said:

 

Even in cases of download only console games you can still buy them in places that aren't the official digital store fronts of those systems. Walmart, for example, carries cards you can buy and redeem for digital games. Online retailers like Amazon and Green Man Gaming also sell digital console games. What's your point about exclusives? Are you seriously trying to imply that exclusive=DRM? Because that is insane and stupid.

 

If your games don't support cloud saves and your hard drive/sdd dies you will lose your saves as well. You don't lose your games if your Switch dies. You can get a new one and transfer everything over to it, even if the old one is dead. All purchased are tied to the account, not the consoles. Any games with cloud saves (and its stupid that all of them done, but that's another argument) will have saves transfer over as well. Also, funny that you pick Nintendo when this topic is about Microsoft. Perhaps you know the point is so flimsy you have to go off topic and try to get a "gotcha", despite proving your information is not up to date.

You can also for some companies with game codes. But I'm not getting into the argument. It's obvs something else is up, and facts are not what's being considered.

[JZStudios]

7 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

I agree it’s a hard sell, but I bet they will bank on the “SSD being an upgrade” that to try and keep the price on the base model down, they’ll go 500GB. Bonus points if it’s not that hard to do your own swap. 
 

Now if the base model was 1TB? That’s be awesome, but I’m not counting on it. 

At this point I'd be happy if they did what laptops do and have a hybrid, one SSD, one mass HDD. Based on prices a 1TB NVME isn't much more than a 500, and given MS would get a hell of a discount, especially at the bulk prices they're paying I'd be very upset if they even have a 500gb. It's about as useful as Nvidia still making GPU's with less than 4gb of ram.

 

7 hours ago, Mihle said:

Of I said something that you don't think is correct then say what, so I can give you proof on those points.

I never said everything on Epic was DRM free, for one. I just said it was a reliable source of DRM free. Most of the games I've gotten from there I can launch DRM free straight from the .exe.

There's a few games on Steam that are DRM free, but the vast majority aren't. And just because Steam has their own basic DRM so the devs implement it doesn't change the fact that it's DRM. Or that most games are only available from a single location.

[Donut417]

8 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

prices

I got an Intel 1 TB NvME drive for under $200. So it really is doable. Hard to say what they will do. Also I expect they will allow external storage like they do with the current models. 

[Derangel]

51 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I got an Intel 1 TB NvME drive for under $200. So it really is doable. Hard to say what they will do. Also I expect they will allow external storage like they do with the current models. 

QLC based NvME drives are under $100 these days and would be perfectly fine for consoles. Last week WD had their Black series 1TB NvME drive on sale for just over $100. With those prices, there's really no reason for MS to use anything less than 1TB.

[FezBoy]

On 12/14/2019 at 9:36 AM, Commodus said:

The Switch isn't an Android tablet -- it's running a spin on FreeBSD.  In that sense, it's closer to a Mac than someone's Galaxy Tab.

I meant hardware-wise, but you're right.  I guess it would be closest to an iPad?  Arm cpu+BSD?

[AdmiralMeowmix]

1 hour ago, Derangel said:

QLC based NvME drives are under $100 these days and would be perfectly fine for consoles. Last week WD had their Black series 1TB NvME drive on sale for just over $100. With those prices, there's really no reason for MS to use anything less than 1TB.

I think microsoft will do 1 TB as they do have an understanding of what people on the market want and expect, Sony on the other hand with that whole "cartridge" patent that they did I think Sony's going to try and go the route of "Smaller drives that you can swap out any time" route to save on costs but also get people to buy more proprietary hardware from them.

[Donut417]

4 minutes ago, AdmiralMeowmix said:

cartridge

So if the PS5 going to still do Bluray's? Or do you think they will just go to cartridges and say fuck all the people who want to watch Blurays? 

[Bombastinator]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

So if the PS5 going to still do Bluray's? Or do you think they will just go to cartridges and say fuck all the people who want to watch Blurays? 

To be fair there aren’t all that many such people.  Blu-ray is kind of a mess.

[Donut417]

2 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

To be fair there aren’t all that many such people.  Blu-ray is kind of a mess.

Key word "DATA CAPS". So yeah disks are still kinda a thing. Im not talking in a gaming aspect, Im talking in 1080 to 4K movie context. Because as it stands, Blurays are still the BEST quality you can get. Streaming doesnt come close, unless we are talking a Bluray rip being streamed by Plex or something. 

[AdmiralMeowmix]

15 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

So if the PS5 going to still do Bluray's? Or do you think they will just go to cartridges and say fuck all the people who want to watch Blurays? 

They'll likely keep the disc drive, Sony did help invent the blu ray player after all. The cartridges would likely purely be storage for games and such. Which would likely mean you'd have to keep track of which one has the games data on it that you want to play if thats the case.

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Streaming doesnt come close, unless we are talking a Bluray rip being streamed by Plex or something. 

REMUX or don't bother . Took me ages to make fully working copies of my blu-rays in Plex, tons of storage used doing it lol.