Ryzen 4000 and X670 scheduled for late 2020

[Flying Sausages]

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/ryzen-4000-and-x670-scheduled-for-late-2020.html

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At the end of 2020, AMD Ryzen 4000 processors will be released together with the matching X670 motherboards. The processors are based on the Zen 3 architecture and are said to be the last for the AM4 socket. The X670 chipset is likely not designed by AMD, but another manufacturer like ASMEdia or VIA. X670 is said to provide better support for PCIe 4.0 and increase the connectivity for M.2, SATA and USB 3.2 drives.

Quote

AMD should be able to fit a few more transistors in the Ryzen 4000 CPUs by using Extreme Ultraviolet Lithography in the 7nm+ fabrication process. Another performance increase should be achieved by increasing the power per clock cycle and higher clock rates. The fourth generation of AMD Ryzen processors is said to be the last one compatible with the AM4 socket. New standards such as PCI 5.0 and DDR5 are likely to make backward compatibility more difficult. A move to the next memory generation DDR5 and PCI Express 5.0 is getting closer likely late 2021 or early 2022.

AMD is going to destroy Intel in 2020 with Zen 3 cpu and new gpu. I can't wait to see how this battle play out. Zen 3 are said to be on AM4 socket so I hope it does. X670 motherboard is going to be much better than X570 with the ridiculous chipset fan if I assume the X670 will not going to have the ridiculous chipset fan.

[TempestCatto]

Wow. My 2700x and Radeon VII are already outdated. Screw it all, I'm gonna whore myself out to afford the latest shit each year.

[DildorTheDecent]

pp: very hard.

[weeblord]

RIP Intel

[melete]

Later in the year than we expected, I think?

[Drak3]

Maybe this one will make an upgrade from Haswell-E worthwhile.

[TrigrH]

If Zen 3 can actually get some clock speed, its GG.

[SeriousDad69]

2 hours ago, TrigrH said:

If Zen 3 can actually get some clock speed, its GG.

Zen 3 could probably hit 5GHz right now if all the good silicon wasn't going to Epyc. 3700x and 3800x are garbage tier silicon and the 3950x and threadripper are okay tier.

[Taf the Ghost]

17 minutes ago, SeriousDad69 said:

Zen 3 could probably hit 5GHz right now if all the good silicon wasn't going to Epyc. 3700x and 3800x are garbage tier silicon and the 3950x and threadripper are okay tier.

It seems pretty clear the upper tiers of the core segments were supposed to get the better silicon, but there is a combination of "not enough" and "we can sell everything that hits Epyc standards for more" happening right now. AMD has silicon floating around that'll do 5 Ghz single core and around 4.6 Ghz all-core, but they can sell those parts for a whole lot more to hyperscalers (along with not producing enough to bring out normal SKUs to Consumer).  Just the reality of binning.

[dgsddfgdfhgs]

late 2020 , so ryzen 5000 will be even later ~ 2022??

[TrigrH]

50 minutes ago, SeriousDad69 said:

Zen 3 could probably hit 5GHz right now if all the good silicon wasn't going to Epyc. 3700x and 3800x are garbage tier silicon and the 3950x and threadripper are okay tier.

i disagree think about how long it took to for intel to get 5ghz out of its 14nm chips, 6th gen, 7th gen (some), 8th gen (most), 9th gen (pretty much all).

 

Only time will tell but currently 5ghz on ryzen requires LN2.

[dizmo]

I mean. Yeah. That's kind of how yearly releases work...I don't think this is really a surprise to anyone

PCIe 5.0 seems kind of pointless at this point.

Why do you think we'll see the fan on the mobo disappear? I think it'll stick around unless they manage to work some real magic.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

6 hours ago, DildorTheDecent said:

pp: very hard.

LOL ... but from a different perspective. To a musician (like me, for example), the term "pp" actually means "very soft", meaning a passage of music is supposed to be performed very softly / quietly.

 

 

5 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Maybe this one will make an upgrade from Haswell-E worthwhile.

 

42 minutes ago, dgsddfgdfhgs said:

late 2020 , so ryzen 5000 will be even later ~ 2022??

I'm currently on Haswell-S on my desktop (4790K - I guess that's actually Devil's Canyon / Haswell Refresh).  Am tentatively planning to upgrade to Ryzen 5000 / AM5 in 2021 / 2022, or whenever it's been out long enough for the initial bugs to be worked out and Black Friday sales to have dropped the Ryzen 7 tier chips down to about $200 or so.

 

A couple things that could delay my upgrade, besides budget limiting me, would be

not a big enough upgrade from my 4790K (won't do much detail here, other than I'm looking for a minimum of equivalent to 286-10 @ $300 (Jan-1989) to 486DX4-120 @ $100 (Oct-1995) upgrade, which I think was about a 75-80X (TIMES, not percent) improvement in performance and a price drop to 1/3), as well as

not long-enough future compatibility (I'd like to replace my then-acquired golden-sample SeaSonic Prime PSU a few times (because it died of old age - btw in-warranty failure would be infant mortality) before I have to replace the motherboard) and the ability to use the entire product stack on the motherboard, from $30 entry level low-TDP CPUs to $8K server CPUs, among other things.

 

My current laptop is on Skylake, with an i7-6700K.  I'm maybe hoping I can manage to get an i9-9900 or 9900T (or if Intel launches a 10nm or 7nm CPU on 1151, a high core count version of one of those, but I'm not expecting it) running on my laptop, but I won't be getting one until whatever non-physically-compatible next-generation has launched AND the CPU has dropped to about $300-350 if it's an i9 or $200-250 if it's an i7, at Micro Center.

As for replacing the laptop entirely, for now I'm waiting for DDR6 to do that.  (I generally don't like to get each new generation of DDR RAM that comes out for each system - it's too quick of an upgrade cycle.  For now, it looks like I'd be leapfrogging desktop vs laptop (desktop DDR3, laptop DDR4, desktop DDR5, laptop DDR6), but I really don't know.

[Froody129]

45 minutes ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

LOL ... but from a different perspective. To a musician (like me, for example), the term "pp" actually means "very soft", meaning a passage of music is supposed to be performed very softly / quietly.

 

 

 

I'm currently on Haswell-S on my desktop (4790K - I guess that's actually Devil's Canyon / Haswell Refresh).  Am tentatively planning to upgrade to Ryzen 5000 / AM5 in 2021 / 2022, or whenever it's been out long enough for the initial bugs to be worked out and Black Friday sales to have dropped the Ryzen 7 tier chips down to about $200 or so.

 

A couple things that could delay my upgrade, besides budget limiting me, would be

not a big enough upgrade from my 4790K (won't do much detail here, other than I'm looking for a minimum of equivalent to 286-10 @ $300 (Jan-1989) to 486DX4-120 @ $100 (Oct-1995) upgrade, which I think was about a 75-80X (TIMES, not percent) improvement in performance and a price drop to 1/3), as well as

not long-enough future compatibility (I'd like to replace my then-acquired golden-sample SeaSonic Prime PSU a few times (because it died of old age - btw in-warranty failure would be infant mortality) before I have to replace the motherboard) and the ability to use the entire product stack on the motherboard, from $30 entry level low-TDP CPUs to $8K server CPUs, among other things.

 

My current laptop is on Skylake, with an i7-6700K.  I'm maybe hoping I can manage to get an i9-9900 or 9900T (or if Intel launches a 10nm or 7nm CPU on 1151, a high core count version of one of those, but I'm not expecting it) running on my laptop, but I won't be getting one until whatever non-physically-compatible next-generation has launched AND the CPU has dropped to about $300-350 if it's an i9 or $200-250 if it's an i7, at Micro Center.

As for replacing the laptop entirely, for now I'm waiting for DDR6 to do that.  (I generally don't like to get each new generation of DDR RAM that comes out for each system - it's too quick of an upgrade cycle.  For now, it looks like I'd be leapfrogging desktop vs laptop (desktop DDR3, laptop DDR4, desktop DDR5, laptop DDR6), but I really don't know.

You're going to be waiting a long time for minimum 80 times the performance of current CPUs... Nevermind at a third of the cost. 

[RejZoR]

8 hours ago, TempestCatto said:

Wow. My 2700x and Radeon VII are already outdated. Screw it all, I'm gonna whore myself out to afford the latest shit each year.

Nah, they aren't. 2700X is still very much high end CPU and Radeon VII is not a throw away either. If you're not a 4K gamer, it'll do just fine for quite some more time.

[Mihle]

Not sure if I want to wait for that or if I should just get Ryzen 3000 now...

 

I have i5 3570k now.

[Teddy07]

Do mainboard manufacturers so far upgrade their bios to support new Ryzen processors?

[strajk-]

If the performance upgrade from a 4790k is justified, I'll be getting whatever 16 core Ryzen 4xxx.

And if by 2021-2022 whatever Ryzen gets released with DDR5 support that runs stable, outshines Ryzen 4xxx, then I'll get that too while turning the previous upgrade into a dedicated server.

 

Both my main rig and my server needs to be replaced soon, so that upgrade cycle works out for me.

[COTG]

2 hours ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

LOL ... but from a different perspective. To a musician (like me, for example), the term "pp" actually means "very soft", meaning a passage of music is supposed to be performed very softly / quietly.

 

 

 

I'm currently on Haswell-S on my desktop (4790K - I guess that's actually Devil's Canyon / Haswell Refresh).  Am tentatively planning to upgrade to Ryzen 5000 / AM5 in 2021 / 2022, or whenever it's been out long enough for the initial bugs to be worked out and Black Friday sales to have dropped the Ryzen 7 tier chips down to about $200 or so.

 

A couple things that could delay my upgrade, besides budget limiting me, would be

not a big enough upgrade from my 4790K (won't do much detail here, other than I'm looking for a minimum of equivalent to 286-10 @ $300 (Jan-1989) to 486DX4-120 @ $100 (Oct-1995) upgrade, which I think was about a 75-80X (TIMES, not percent) improvement in performance and a price drop to 1/3), as well as

not long-enough future compatibility (I'd like to replace my then-acquired golden-sample SeaSonic Prime PSU a few times (because it died of old age - btw in-warranty failure would be infant mortality) before I have to replace the motherboard) and the ability to use the entire product stack on the motherboard, from $30 entry level low-TDP CPUs to $8K server CPUs, among other things.

 

My current laptop is on Skylake, with an i7-6700K.  I'm maybe hoping I can manage to get an i9-9900 or 9900T (or if Intel launches a 10nm or 7nm CPU on 1151, a high core count version of one of those, but I'm not expecting it) running on my laptop, but I won't be getting one until whatever non-physically-compatible next-generation has launched AND the CPU has dropped to about $300-350 if it's an i9 or $200-250 if it's an i7, at Micro Center.

As for replacing the laptop entirely, for now I'm waiting for DDR6 to do that.  (I generally don't like to get each new generation of DDR RAM that comes out for each system - it's too quick of an upgrade cycle.  For now, it looks like I'd be leapfrogging desktop vs laptop (desktop DDR3, laptop DDR4, desktop DDR5, laptop DDR6), but I really don't know.

those requirements, frankly are delusional. 

[porina]

9 hours ago, OlympicAssEater said:

AMD is going to destroy Intel in 2020 with Zen 3 cpu and new gpu.

Agreed, but I hope I'm wrong on this and they pull something out for mainstream consumer that isn't Skylake derived again.

 

Also for the generation after, with PCIe 5.0, DDR5, maybe some chance of 5 GHz, think they might aim for May 5th launch date?  Don't know if it might be a bit early to add 5nm to the list perhaps...

 

3 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

AMD has silicon floating around that'll do 5 Ghz single core and around 4.6 Ghz all-core

I've never kept up to date on server parts, are these off the shelf or "on request" specials?

 

3 hours ago, TrigrH said:

i disagree think about how long it took to for intel to get 5ghz out of its 14nm chips, 6th gen, 7th gen (some), 8th gen (most), 9th gen (pretty much all).

Skylake might do it with extreme cooling.

Kaby Lake could do it overclocked on a good sample.

Coffee Lake v1 was the first offered at 5 GHz single core turbo, and fair chance to hitting all core with manual OC.

Coffee Lake v2 was the first offered at 5 GHz all core turbo, if you exclude the special Skylake-X part which was also rated all cores at 5 GHz.

 

Back to AMD, we don't really know how whatever process they choose will behave. If they continue not to optimise for clock, but instead balance of power efficiency and IPC, then 5 GHz for the masses may remain out of reach.

 

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

PCIe 5.0 seems kind of pointless at this point.

PCIe 4.0 is of limited benefit also, but there seems to be wider industry support around 5.0 so that might get more traction faster. We are/were on 3.0 for rather a long time.

[Taf the Ghost]

@porina the ultra-high clocking silicon appears to only be available as an ES, but we know there is higher quality silicon than the 3950X and you can get that pretty close to those numbers already. AMD maybe do some special orders for some specific customer for those parts, but I'd be really surprised if they ever show up anywhere. (Companies that used to use those have gone to ASICs or FPGAs, mostly because AMD created HBM. Go figure, lol.)

 

As for 5 Ghz, Skylake was too dense to really do it. To get there Intel has kept backing off the density of the cores themselves, which is why the thermals, clocks and power usage has kept improving since Kaby Lake. (The actual x86 "core" of a modern SoC is so small relative to the die that I'm surprised this isn't actually the standard practice all together. It might be over the course of next few generations, anyway.)

[dizmo]

34 minutes ago, porina said:

PCIe 4.0 is of limited benefit also, but there seems to be wider industry support around 5.0 so that might get more traction faster. We are/were on 3.0 for rather a long time.

What supports 5.0 that doesn't support 4.0?

[porina]

27 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

As for 5 Ghz, Skylake was too dense to really do it. To get there Intel has kept backing off the density of the cores themselves, which is why the thermals, clocks and power usage has kept improving since Kaby Lake.

I recall seeing that when 14+ came out with Kaby Lake, but I hadn't been paying close attention to 14++ of Coffee Lake and beyond.

 

The thought occurs, given Intel's 10nm was supposed to be relatively dense, at least in its original configuration, it is too much of a leap that might contribute to the less than stellar clock scaling seen on Ice Lake?

 

27 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

(The actual x86 "core" of a modern SoC is so small relative to the die that I'm surprised this isn't actually the standard practice all together. It might be over the course of next few generations, anyway.)

As more features are crammed into cores like AVX-512 extensions, that might still put pressure on size. I guess that is just a design balancing point any CPU design has to make.

 

21 minutes ago, dizmo said:

What supports 5.0 that doesn't support 4.0?

Presumably 5.0 will still fall back to 4.0 or even 3.0 if needed. While not an area I look at too closely, many of the high bandwidth interconnects in HPC area are related to 5.0. Not much point for consumer maybe, but there may eventually be some trickle down.

[Taf the Ghost]

6 minutes ago, porina said:

I recall seeing that when 14+ came out with Kaby Lake, but I hadn't been paying close attention to 14++ of Coffee Lake and beyond.

 

The thought occurs, given Intel's 10nm was supposed to be relatively dense, at least in its original configuration, it is too much of a leap that might contribute to the less than stellar clock scaling seen on Ice Lake?

 

As more features are crammed into cores like AVX-512 extensions, that might still put pressure on size. I guess that is just a design balancing point any CPU design has to make.

 

Presumably 5.0 will still fall back to 4.0 or even 3.0 if needed. While not an area I look at too closely, many of the high bandwidth interconnects in HPC area are related to 5.0. Not much point for consumer maybe, but there may eventually be some trickle down.

Intel 10nm ran into issues because of the density, but that was due to pushing aspects of the DUV process too far. They had to engineer a way around some physics limits and it didn't go well. Their solutions to those problems didn't work, which is why the "shipping" 10nm appears to be significantly less dense than expected, possibly just slightly more dense than they're running 14nm. (At least for the Cores. Density matters far, far more for the Caches than the cores themselves. In AMD's CCD, the actual x86 cores are like 20% of the die space, with the L3 at like 50%. For reference.)

 

Some of Intel's clocking problems is those AVX512 units. They're power hogs and produce a lot of heat, so any time they're active (even if not in full use) it kills their power budgets and, as a result, clocks. Though something is still really wrong with Intel's 10nm. That being said, 5 Ghz is probably too high of clocks to expect ever against on silicon-based nodes.

[yian88]

Hopefully late 2020 actually means August 2020... and hopefully AMD doesnt hold on new releases too long if intel has no new products competitive. AMD must continue being on a wave, if they stop for a second to withhold performance to make more money they will fail hard. By the time intel gets its shit togheter in 2021 AMD must be on par or better and make lots of money to ensure at least 2-3 arhitecture generations investment (around ~5-6 years of CPU releases).

But even so i still believe AMD will fail, dont know about intel they have money and fabs to design new shit. Why? the future is mostly mobile and power optimized, current x86 design is slow big,power hungry and outdated alongside the windows 10 shit OS that has no future. I can clearly see mobile OS'es and ARM cpu's taking more of the market and making high end workstation and gaming PC's a niche, AMD cant survive on a niche market of CPU. Intel on the other hand with their own fabs, talent and $ they have they can invent and adapt to new markets easily, one revolution could be FOVEROS that adapts big.Little design with stacked RAM or HBM-like memory for mobile laptops and mid range desktop they can easily overtake all mobile segment, the only problem is we dont have a desktop mobile OS, windows is the worst OS in existance, google refuses to make a push for Android desktop, its such a huge potential they just cant see it, by improving Google Play store for Pro Work Apps, and the interface for a mobile laptop experience android with ARM/Foveros on desktop would easily takeover.

I feel like any x86 Windows laptop is severely handicapped, neither the arhitecture or OS is made for mobile, its slow, heavy, big files, not power optimized and buggy, looking at my Pocophone SD845 and i cringe at my Ryzen 3 laptop or any laptop its just too slow/inefficient.