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williamcll

Mac pro and XDR display orders available now + unboxing

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3 hours ago, TechyBen said:

Nope. Probably actual price. I doubt many could afford the monthly payments on that for their entire WAGE.

Canada, maxed out (without buying final cut or logic pro, but adding apple care)

image.png.d1405b96f36043957b4f8013e1bcf480.png

Ye gawds, I could buy one, but I don't have a use case for a maxed out Mac Pro. Where's Mr.Beast when you need him to spend stupid amounts of money on things. That's CAD above

 

As side note to that, I maxed out "the equivalent" on dell's site and it was north of 90K. The issue on the Dell site is that to get 1.5TB of RAM you need a Dual CPU configuration, which means it's an older configuration still. But yeah buying the base 

 

This is an equivalent Dell USD:

image.png.9d8117a97656e4e7bf8487891cc36383.png

However it's not a buildable configuration for reasons I noted above. Can't get a 2X NVMe 2TB or a single 4TB drive, as they're only on a PCIe card,  and have two GPU's. Can't get 1.5TB in a 24 DIMM configuration, so selecting a 12 DIMM configuration results in doubling the RAM price.

image.png.77881f482db339bc09c29afa2c0f63e9.png

image.png.774fc7c498bdb10bcd96fba16a305bb0.png

 

So to "make a buildable configuration" I have to add boot drive, and switch to dual CPU's, so the result is this, Slightly more than the Mac Pro:

 

image.thumb.png.c60b39a4ffd829d0d29c41ec6309f231.png

 

 

image.thumb.png.bd9d7376c417b1d01a9f924f8fac7a02.png

Everything past this point was standard, 1600w redundant PSU.

 

Caveat: There is no accelerator card, and the GPU's used by Apple are not available from Dell on any machine that I'm aware of, so I selected the highest Quadro option, but those are also older models as well. Would I buy that Dell instead? Nope.

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6 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Mac Pro is not for people who are on an hourly wage and buying their own equipment. 

Apple productivity currently goes:

Laptop

The entire freaking planet.

 

 

Thus all the strange responses. They don't have a middle ground (PC by it's nature has a much more gradual upgrade/market share).

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3 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

They don't have a middle ground

? Of course they do. The iMac, and the Mac Mini are great middle ground computers for those who want performance but don't want the best of the best. The Mac Mini + an eGPU is a fantastic Prosumer setup. 


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 8 Plus 64GB | Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 | CPU: R5 2600 | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 16GB 2666 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell 27 Gaming Monitor S2719DGF 1440p @155Hz, Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball
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1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

? Of course they do. The iMac, and the Mac Mini are great middle ground computers for those who want performance but don't want the best of the best. The Mac Mini + an eGPU is a fantastic Prosumer setup. 

Sorry, I keep forgetting the iMac is not just a glorified display. XD (No serviceable/upgradable parts and thermally questionable).

 

Quote

Mini + an eGPU is a fantastic Prosumer setup. 

Ok. Now you are just as crazy as I am. ;)

 

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19 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Sorry, I keep forgetting the iMac is not just a glorified display. XD (No serviceable/upgradable parts and thermally questionable).

Well it's not like the Mac Pro is exactly serviceable by the user, or even IT staff, unless you can get parts from Apple which is difficult enough with an iMac, Linus went through a lot to get his iMac Pro fixed.

And Snazzy Labs built a Ryzen hackintosh for $4,000 that wipes the floor with the $8,000 Mac Pro, professionals want an easily serviceable desktop not a fancy looking cheese grater.

 

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21 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

? Of course they do. The iMac, and the Mac Mini are great middle ground computers for those who want performance but don't want the best of the best. The Mac Mini + an eGPU is a fantastic Prosumer setup. 

They do have levels, and there are fewer of them than in PC space.  It didn’t used to be so much this way, but once upon a time Mac users dropped to nearly zero and it built back up again in a more granulated way.  I happen to fall between the grains atm.  I want more raw gpu power than can be offered by an iMac Pro, but I can’t justify the 10 grand or more it would take to get the kind of Mac Pro that would do what I want.  My whole system could be built atm for maybe $700-900.  To get the performance level I use out of a Mac I’d need a pretty high end iMac Pro in the 3-4K range.  And even that wouldn’t give me the GPU performance I got.  I’m not saying it’s not worth it for those things.  It would give me a ton of other things as well.  They’re things I don’t want though.

 

What I am most desiring to see out of Apple atm is a cheapo plastic version of the Mac Pro that doesn’t come with any video cards. Just one of those cooler shrouds I can put a card into.  It can be plastic too.  Maybe paper even.  Aluminum fins inside, but the outer shell only needs to hold air.  I can worry about the CPU myself too.  And the CPU cooler.  Make the PSU space atx and I’m good without that too.  Make the mobo atx and leave off the case even.

 

 I’d pay a grand for a mobo, a case, some fans, a gpu cooler shroud.  Oh, and a copy of OSX.  That’s the diamond.

 

This mini+ eGPU Almost works for me.  Not enough bandwidth for the gpu though.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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12 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

This mini+ eGPU Almost works for me.  Not enough bandwidth for the gpu though.

The performance bottleneck is an inherently limitation of the TB interface. However, I feel we are not likely to see a consumer grade Mac tower anytime soon. I think Apple believes that most consumers are better off with an iMac than going back to the days of the PowerMac stand alone towers. 

 

I'm not convinced that Apple is interested in making the Mac become market share-competitive with PCs, rather they would prefer to focus on their high margin, low (relatively) volume strategy. This unfortunately means that it doesn't make much $ sense to give consumers a cheapo tower with PCIe slots and DIMM slots so they can be upgraded.  


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 8 Plus 64GB | Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 | CPU: R5 2600 | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 16GB 2666 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell 27 Gaming Monitor S2719DGF 1440p @155Hz, Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball
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21 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The performance bottleneck is an inherently limitation of the TB interface. However, I feel we are not likely to see a consumer grade Mac tower anytime soon. I think Apple believes that most consumers are better off with an iMac than going back to the days of the PowerMac stand alone towers. 

 

I'm not convinced that Apple is interested in making the Mac become market share-competitive with PCs, rather they would prefer to focus on their high margin, low (relatively) volume strategy. This unfortunately means that it doesn't make much $ sense to give consumers a cheapo tower with PCIe slots and DIMM slots so they can be upgraded.  

Fair.  I’d love to see even an m.2 slot I could stick an eGPU cable into though. 4 lanes of Pcie 4.0 would be enough.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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25 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

4 lanes of Pcie 4.0 would be enough.

That's the same bottleneck as TB3 though. 


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 8 Plus 64GB | Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 | CPU: R5 2600 | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 16GB 2666 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell 27 Gaming Monitor S2719DGF 1440p @155Hz, Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball
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7 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That's the same bottleneck as TB3 though. 

It’s a wider one.  I thought TB 3 was 2 lanes of 1.0


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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8 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That's the same bottleneck as TB3 though. 

I was thinking about this one in the shower (I was cold) a Mac mini with 2 m.2 2880 ports.  1 for an nvme, one for an eGPU.  Give it a 6/12 processor like an 8700, and it should still wax a ps5 running boot camp games.  Better with native stuff.  Unless that TB3 is really as fast as you say.  Then you don’t need anything except a TB3 eGPU.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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7 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I thought TB 3 was 2 lanes of 1.0

A correct implementation of TB3 can give an eGPU 4 lanes of 3.0. The latency is was really kills performance, not the 4 lanes. 


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 8 Plus 64GB | Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 | CPU: R5 2600 | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 16GB 2666 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell 27 Gaming Monitor S2719DGF 1440p @155Hz, Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball
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18 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That's the same bottleneck as TB3 though. 

Looked it up.  TB3 is 40gb/s. Pcie4 is 16gb/s per lane so 64gb/s

 

so TB3 is 5 lanes of pcie3.0. If only it had 8 a few years ago.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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On 12/8/2019 at 9:34 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

They certainly took their time.  I haven't been watching them closely but just assumed on some level that they'd launched months ago, although on the other hand given the lack of information and news, I suppose on some level I also knew that wasn't true.  But hey, it was long enough for someone to copy and start selling a clone of the case for PCs xD  With any luck, we'll also see a "knockoff" VESA adapter so people will be able to use any stand or arm they want without paying a ridiculous markup.

MKBHD be like “I’ll take two display and the top spec Mac Pro”. With stand. Each. 

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37 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Looked it up.  TB3 is 40gb/s. Pcie4 is 16gb/s per lane so 64gb/s

 

so TB3 is 5 lanes of pcie3.0. If only it had 8 a few years ago.

TB3 only supports 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0.

 

That 40gbps number is the maximum bandwidth a controller can support when combining USB, DisplayPort, and PCIe signalling.

56 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

That's the same bottleneck as TB3 though. 

For anything running PCIe over Thunderbolt, bandwidth would double, which would reduce the bottleneck on higher end GPUs like the 1080 and up.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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I've gotta know, will apple ever release a PC that uses the standard parts without locking to specific Models or modules or brands?  

 

 

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I've gotta know, will apple ever release a PC that uses the standard parts without locking to specific Models or modules or brands?  

 

 

 

 

“The” standard?  It use a lot more than it used to.  They don’t write drivers for stuff they don’t sell though so there tend to be weird hoes in what works and what doesn’t.  You could theoretically write a driver for something.  That’s often a huge pita though.  Triply hard for GPUs.  A printer though might be possible.


Life is like a bowl of chocolates: there are all these little crinkly paper cups everywhere.

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I think I'll be sticking with my 2009 Mac Pro for a little while longer then! It may be 10 years old, but it still just about keeps up with my 6 Core 9750H laptop which is plenty fast for me!

 

When I first got my Mac, I was very much a MacOS hater, everything was in the wrong place and simple features were missing (like the lack of native support for extra buttons on mice!), but after using it 'full time' for about a year now, I'd much rather spend my time in MacOS than Windows. That would be the case if there was software compatibility parity between them, but there isn't, so for now I guess I'll just have to use both!

 

I would say I am still an Apple hater, but what I really hate is the customer base who let Apple get away with everything, and come up with excuses for them. 

 

Objectively, from a purely hardware perspective, the new Mac Pro is waaaaaaaay overpriced, but we all expected that, there's no way that Apple would even consider selling it at anything near it's 'real price'. That would mean they're admitting that it's essentially the same as a PC, and Apple marketing wouldn't allow that, plus their customers wouldn't feel like they have something 'special'.

 

The only coverage for the Mac Pro that I've watched is MKBHD's, I usually like Jonathan's content but just seeing the way he is literally sucking off Apple on Twitter makes me violently sick, and don't even get me started on iJustine! I know Marques is also a bit of an Apple fanboy, but I do trust him enough to at least give a somewhat objective review. 

 

The coverage I'm really looking forward to is Quinn's, I can already tell it's going to be juicy!

 

On a side note, the new Mac Pro is absolutely hideous, I'd much rather have the Trashcan Mac Pro on my desk than the new one! It's just sets my trypophobia right off!

 


Laptop:

Spoiler

HP OMEN 15 - Intel Core i7 9750H, 16GB DDR4, 512GB NVMe SSD, Nvidia RTX 2060, 15.6" 1080p 144Hz IPS display

PC:

Spoiler

Vacancy - Looking for applicants, please send CV

Mac:

Spoiler

2009 Mac Pro 8 Core - 2 x Xeon E5520, 16GB DDR3 1333 ECC, 120GB SATA SSD, AMD Radeon 7850. Soon to be upgraded to 2 x 6 Core Xeons

Phones:

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LG G6 - Platinum (The best colour of any phone, period)

LG G7 - Moroccan Blue

 

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6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

“The” standard?  It use a lot more than it used to.  They don’t write drivers for stuff they don’t sell though so there tend to be weird hoes in what works and what doesn’t.  You could theoretically write a driver for something.  That’s often a huge pita though.  Triply hard for GPUs.  A printer though might be possible.

The driver issue was a choice by apple, they could let nvidia write the driver.   And whats with the MPX module?  What is wrong with having a standard PCIe slot and using of the shelf GPU's?


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The driver issue was a choice by apple, they could let nvidia write the driver.   And whats with the MPX module?  What is wrong with having a standard PCIe slot and using of the shelf GPU's?

I believe you still can, I'm sure I saw somewhere that there were regular PCIe power connectors on the motherboard so you can still use regular PCIe Graphics cards assuming you can find a compatible cable.


Laptop:

Spoiler

HP OMEN 15 - Intel Core i7 9750H, 16GB DDR4, 512GB NVMe SSD, Nvidia RTX 2060, 15.6" 1080p 144Hz IPS display

PC:

Spoiler

Vacancy - Looking for applicants, please send CV

Mac:

Spoiler

2009 Mac Pro 8 Core - 2 x Xeon E5520, 16GB DDR3 1333 ECC, 120GB SATA SSD, AMD Radeon 7850. Soon to be upgraded to 2 x 6 Core Xeons

Phones:

Spoiler

LG G6 - Platinum (The best colour of any phone, period)

LG G7 - Moroccan Blue

 

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1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

A correct implementation of TB3 can give an eGPU 4 lanes of 3.0. The latency is was really kills performance, not the 4 lanes. 

its the 4 lanes.

if it switched to 4 lanes of gen4 many issues would be fixed.

Testing was done (almost certain LTT did some where they mentioned you got more performance by not looping back the video, it is just bandwidth starved)

 

@yolosnail get a 2010 or 2012 if you need an upgrade. it will get you upto 12 cores that are a lot faster.


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

NightHawk 2.0: R7 2700 @4.0ghz, B450m Steel Legends, H105, 2x8gb Gell EVO 3200, XFX RX 580 8GB, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 500gb 850 pro and 5tb Toshiba x300

Skunkworks: R5 3500U, 16gb, 250 intel 750, 500gb Adata XPG 6000 lite, Vega 8. HP probook G455R G6

Condor (MC server): 6600K, z170m plus, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, samsung 750 evo, EVGA BR 450.

Compute server Rappter(remember to add link) HP DL380G6 2xE5520 24GB ram with 4x146gb 10k drives and 4x300gb 10K drives, running NOTHING can't get anything to work

WIP NAS Spirt Cisco Security Multiservices Platform server e5420 12gb ram, 1x6 1tb raid 6 for plex + Need funding 16+1 2tb raid 6 for mass storage.

PSU Tier List      Motherboard Tier List      How to get PC parts cheap

 

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11 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The driver issue was a choice by apple, they could let nvidia write the driver.   And whats with the MPX module?  What is wrong with having a standard PCIe slot and using of the shelf GPU's?

MPX is all about having no cable runs.

It is a standard PCIE slot and you can buy cables to put in your own GPU

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUJ2ZM/A/belkin-aux-power-cable-kit-for-mac-pro?fnode=969bec3515758cce5edcd51df690c6e227339d276ca0c39b4300889c48b54972bf99352e8f30795b90520f463a09fbd8aae997af8e6c5b4540977e9638cad9c2d80fa78e6ee366c795d8ef2381490b06f8b0a6547c86a6029ced530070a8095382f652d567628c487214a51a29bf559d

so you could run dual 5700XT or RX 590s or Vega 64, maybe vega VII (I don't know about drivers)


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between 9 to 3 PST

NightHawk 2.0: R7 2700 @4.0ghz, B450m Steel Legends, H105, 2x8gb Gell EVO 3200, XFX RX 580 8GB, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 500gb 850 pro and 5tb Toshiba x300

Skunkworks: R5 3500U, 16gb, 250 intel 750, 500gb Adata XPG 6000 lite, Vega 8. HP probook G455R G6

Condor (MC server): 6600K, z170m plus, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, samsung 750 evo, EVGA BR 450.

Compute server Rappter(remember to add link) HP DL380G6 2xE5520 24GB ram with 4x146gb 10k drives and 4x300gb 10K drives, running NOTHING can't get anything to work

WIP NAS Spirt Cisco Security Multiservices Platform server e5420 12gb ram, 1x6 1tb raid 6 for plex + Need funding 16+1 2tb raid 6 for mass storage.

PSU Tier List      Motherboard Tier List      How to get PC parts cheap

 

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1 minute ago, GDRRiley said:

its the 4 lanes.

if it switched to 4 lanes of gen4 many issues would be fixed.

Testing was done (almost certain LTT did some where they mentioned you got more performance by not looping back the video, it is just bandwidth starved)

 

@yolosnail get a 2010 or 2012 if you need an upgrade. it will get you upto 12 cores that are a lot faster.

I've already updated the firmware to that of the 2010 Mac Pro so it's compatible with the dual 6 core Westmere chips, I'm just waiting for some to come up on ebay! 

Including upgrading the RAM to 16GB, I think I'm only into it about £50 as I bought it from a music studio that thought it was broken, turned out it just needed 9 years of dust removed from the heatsinks! My original intention for it was building a PC in the case, but turns out I really like MacOS!


Laptop:

Spoiler

HP OMEN 15 - Intel Core i7 9750H, 16GB DDR4, 512GB NVMe SSD, Nvidia RTX 2060, 15.6" 1080p 144Hz IPS display

PC:

Spoiler

Vacancy - Looking for applicants, please send CV

Mac:

Spoiler

2009 Mac Pro 8 Core - 2 x Xeon E5520, 16GB DDR3 1333 ECC, 120GB SATA SSD, AMD Radeon 7850. Soon to be upgraded to 2 x 6 Core Xeons

Phones:

Spoiler

LG G6 - Platinum (The best colour of any phone, period)

LG G7 - Moroccan Blue

 

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3 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

I believe you still can, I'm sure I saw somewhere that there were regular PCIe power connectors on the motherboard so you can still use regular PCIe Graphics cards assuming you can find a compatible cable.

It has 8 PCIe connectors and 300watts PCIe power connectors.  But the apple website says the first 4 slots are taken up by the MPX modules which leaves only 3 single width slots. 

 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210408

 

But more to the point why even have the MPX modules and not just standard cards?   Are they really that hell bent on preventing people from not buying parts from them and having their own unique parts.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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5 minutes ago, yolosnail said:

Objectively, from a purely hardware perspective, the new Mac Pro is waaaaaaaay overpriced, but we all expected that, there's no way that Apple would even consider selling it at anything near it's 'real price'. That would mean they're admitting that it's essentially the same as a PC, and Apple marketing wouldn't allow that, plus their customers wouldn't feel like they have something 'special'.

I'd disagree with this. Not to rehash my earlier points, but now that we know what CPUs Apple is using and all, it's actually pretty reasonable if you're comparing like-for-like components.  Many of the complaints seem to be not that the system is actually overpriced, but that there's no lower-cost option aimed vaguely at the mainstream.  Sorry, folks, but Apple isn't going to make a Threadripper gaming rig... you're gonna have to deal with that.

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