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Canadian fined $35,000 for hurting feelings *Update, Jokes won.

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2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Why even have Defamation laws then?

Because it's a lie intended to ruin someone's reputation, not because it is offensive.

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Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

No they wouldn't, the right to freedom of speech is quite clearly stated in the US Constitution.

I truly don't get how this is a America vs the world thing. Yes, that is what free speech means.

 

Do you not see the contradiction in those two statements?

 

This happened in Canada... your free speech argument and constitution is invalid, as are my hate speech law references for things in the UK.

 

So once again.. what we have here is a difference of opinion based on cultural differences between what is deemed acceptable in our two countries.  You're adamant that free speech triumphs over everything, and we believe that there are limits that apply.

 

We're never going to agree on that... we've been brought up with different views and laws on the issue.

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2 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

My bad. Read to fast and thought you guys were part of the people talking about americas freedom of speech.

 

I lose alot of respect for any place that doesnt have freedom of speech yet claim they are a free country.

 

yeah, we have drifted and the US free speech has been dragged into it... and I've used UK examples and laws regarding hate speech which also don't apply. So it all comes down to a cultural difference issue really... and there's never going to be agreement on it.  :)

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Just now, Anomnomnomaly said:

This happened in Canada... your free speech argument and constitution is invalid, as are my hate speech law references for things in the UK.

Yes, Canada doesn't have freedom of speech, doesn't mean that they shouldn't get called out for it. I never said that they should comply with US law.

2 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

We're never going to agree on that... we've been brought up with different views and laws on the issue.

At which point did I exactly say if I'm American or not? Not only Americans can stand for freedom of speech, you know?

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3 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

It does, to ANY country that has ACTUAL freedom of speech. The moment you place limitations on speech, it stops being free speech.

See below - America already has limitations on Free Speech.

1 minute ago, RonnieOP said:

Defamation and offending someone are two different things.

Doesn't matter - Defamation is a limitation on Free Speech.

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Because it's a lie intended to ruin someone's reputation, not because it is offensive.

See above.

 

You guys keep arguing that Free Speech (in the US) is ultimate. It's not. It never has been. There are limitations on Free Speech, such as threatening the President (regardless of whether it's a credible threat), and Defamation.

 

We can't have an honest discussion if you refuse to acknowledge the existing limitations that are already in place.

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1 minute ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

 

yeah, we have drifted and the US free speech has been dragged into it... and I've used UK examples and laws regarding hate speech which also don't apply. So it all comes down to a cultural difference issue really... and there's never going to be agreement on it.  :)

 

Yeah. To me knowledge no country outside the US has freedom of speech. Which is asinine to me. But ill never bother moving to a country that doesn have them so idc.

 

Makes me feel sad for the people who are fucked over by it though.

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5 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Defamation and offending someone are two different things.

and here is more defamation as the comedian claimed that the singer scammed a charity rather than just insulting the singer. claiming someone did something like that can have major consequences on how they are viewed by their friends and family and by the public since the singer is a public figure. It could also affect someone's ability to get employment. now whether or not that actually happened is up to the court to decide

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1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yes, Canada doesn't have freedom of speech, doesn't mean that they shouldn't get called out for it. I never said that they should comply with US law.

At which point did I exactly say if I'm American or not? Not only Americans can stand for freedom of speech, you know?

I simply don't think you can apply a 'black or white' solution to an issue that is neither.... and I'm sure that some one, some where... will take offence at my use of  'black or white' in this context.  :)

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4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You guys keep arguing that Free Speech (in the US) is ultimate. It's not. It never has been. There are limitations on Free Speech, such as threatening the President (regardless of whether it's a credible threat), and Defamation.

 

Naturally. Terroristic threatening does not equate to free speech. Most sane people know this.

 

I am VERY grateful to live in a nation where by law, I am allowed to convey rational ideas.

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1 minute ago, steelo said:

Naturally. Terrorist threatening does not equal free speech. Most sane people know this.

You don't need to be a terrorist to say something that could be construed as threatening the President. You might not even be serious.

 

Still illegal.

 

Aside from that, so you're saying there's a terrorist exception to Free Speech?

 

Gotcha.

 

Good.

 

Now we can have an honest discussion, now that you've acknowledged that there are pre-existing limitations on Free Speech in the US.

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3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You don't need to be a terrorist to say something that could be construed as threatening the President. You might not even be serious.

 

Still illegal.

 

Aside from that, so you're saying there's a terrorist exception to Free Speech?

 

Gotcha.

 

Good.

 

Now we can have an honest discussion, now that you've acknowledged that there are pre-existing limitations on Free Speech in the US.

What are you even talking about. You're kind of all over the place here.

 

First of all, if I make a threat that I'm going to harm anybody (yes, even if I'm joking) I could face jail time...and rightfully so.

 

Now that's cleared up...If I make a tasteless, off-color joke, I will not face criminal prosecution (unlike many other nations around the world)

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3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You guys keep arguing that Free Speech (in the US) is ultimate. It's not. It never has been. There are limitations on Free Speech, such as threatening the President (regardless of whether it's a credible threat), and Defamation.

 

We can't have an honest discussion if you refuse to acknowledge the existing limitations that are already in place.

Not going to get into this debate again. The way that I see it, is limiting speech=limiting ideas/words, not limiting malicious lies and terrorist/crime threats.

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3 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Not going to get into this debate again. The way that I see it, is limiting speech=limiting ideas/words, not limiting malicious lies and terrorist/crime threats.

I agree with everything you've said so far...but, this is getting ridiculous and really a lose-lose as they really do not understand U.S. laws and customs...

 

"But but...you guys really DON'T have free speech! You will go to jail if you threaten to blow up the White House!"

 

"It's all a BIG LIE!!!"

 

LOL

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2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Not going to get into this debate again. The way that I see it, is limiting speech=limiting ideas/words, not limiting malicious lies and terrorist/crime threats.

Nobody tell him that tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people threatened Trump and they’re not imprisoned for breaking any laws.

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Most places have laws against discrimination, defamation, racism, hate speech, threats etc. Free speech is never completely free, there are always exceptions.

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3 minutes ago, steelo said:

What are you even talking about. You're kind of all over the place here.

My points have been very precise and focused: Limitations on Freedom of Speech (specifically in the US) have always been present. I've listed several.

3 minutes ago, steelo said:

First of all, if I make a threat that I'm going to harm anybody (yes, even if I'm joking) I could face jail time...and rightfully so.

Exactly. A limitation on Free Speech.

3 minutes ago, steelo said:

Now that's cleared up...If I make a tasteless, off-color joke, I will not face criminal prosecution (unlike many other nations around the world)

You would if that joke joked about killing the President.

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Not going to get into this debate again. The way that I see it, is limiting speech=limiting ideas/words, not limiting malicious lies and terrorist/crime threats.

Lies are words. Threats are words.

 

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Nobody tell him that tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people threatened Trump and they’re not imprisoned for breaking any laws.

A government deciding not to prosecute doesn't mean a damn thing. Cannabis is still a Schedule 1 narcotic and is Federally illegal, yet they turn the other way for millions of people who consume in states that have legalized.

 

Whether or not someone decides to prosecute does not mean it isn't still illegal.

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Just now, Kilrah said:

Most places have laws against discrimination, defamation, racism, hate speech etc. Free speech is never completely free, there are always exceptions.

This.

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6 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Most places have laws against discrimination, defamation, racism, hate speech etc. Free speech is never completely free, there are always exceptions.

Obviously, as there should be. Terroristic threatening does not equate to free speech. I can't go around telling people I'm going to harm their family. I would think this would be common sense to most.

 

However, if I were to walk into a comedy club in the U.S. and make a bunch of off-color jokes, I more than likely wouldn't face a $35,000 suit as I would in other countries.

 

See the difference here?

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5 minutes ago, steelo said:

What are you even talking about. You're kind of all over the place here.

 

First of all, if I make a threat that I'm going to harm anybody (yes, even if I'm joking) I could face jail time...and rightfully so.

 

Now that's cleared up...If I make a tasteless, off-color joke, I will not face criminal prosecution (unlike many other nations around the world)

no the problem is the comedian made a claim about something the singer did. this is basically a defamation lawsuit. if the comedian called the singer an asshole and he got sued for it then i would disagree with the case but the comedian claimed the singer ripped off a charity

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1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Lies are words. Threats are words.

The words themselves are not illegal.

 

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Whether or not someone decides to prosecute does not mean it isn't still illegal.

Making valid threats is illegal. Everything else is legal.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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13 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

and here is more defamation as the comedian claimed that the singer scammed a charity rather than just insulting the singer. claiming someone did something like that can have major consequences on how they are viewed by their friends and family and by the public since the singer is a public figure. It could also affect someone's ability to get employment. now whether or not that actually happened is up to the court to decide

Its a comedy act. It is in no way meant to be taken as factual. And everyone knows that.

 

Only an idiot would take a joke as facts. A comedy act is fiction. You dont watch south park and treat it as a history lesson.

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3 minutes ago, steelo said:

I agree with everything you've said so far...but, this is getting ridiculous and really a lose-lose as they really do not understand U.S. laws and customs...

 

"But but...you guys really DON'T have free speech! You will go to jail if you threaten to blow up the White House!"

 

"It's all a BIG LIE!!!"

 

LOL

Even if you take free speech 100% literally and you think that the US doesn't have free speech, the US still has the free-est speech in the world. The list of things you "can't say" are extremely limited and also very dependent on context. 

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Nobody tell him that tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people threatened Trump and they’re not imprisoned for breaking any laws.

I doubt that blue haired reddit neckbeards are a big threat TBH. ;)

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Lies are words. Threats are words.

I think you are taking it too literally.

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4 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Its a comedy act. It is in no way meant to be taken as factual. And everyone knows that.

 

Only an idiot would take a joke as facts. A comedy act is fiction. You dont watch south park and treat it as a history lesson.

if you mention someone specific in a comedy act then there is expectation that there is some truth in what you are saying (it could be exaggerated) or else why would you bother naming someone instead of the generic guy or kid

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1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

doubt that blue haired reddit neckbeards are a big threat TBH.

IIRC, a celebrity said something along the lines of she wanted to blow up the White House when Trump became president at a rally.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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