Canadian fined $35,000 for hurting feelings *Update, Jokes won.

[JZStudios]

8 hours ago, Lady Fitzgerald said:

I'm constantly beinbg amazed, dismayed, and disgusted by the number of people in our society, who are so insensitive to people who are disadvantaged. People scream "feedom of speech" (or whatever) but fail to comprehend that people's rights should end when they infringe on the rights of others. Even worse is the common belief that handicapped people are fair game for mockery.

 

Ward violated Gabriel's right when he attacked his handicaps and slandered him with outright lies. It doesn't matter if it was in a comedy show or not; Grabriel was still justifiably offended (keep in mind that all handicapped people were obliquely insulted by Ward's brutally insensitive and inaccurate comments). People, including many here in these forums, need to grow up and think of the feelings of others before they speak.

Should he be fined $35000 for insulting the disabled?

 

Please, for the love of god, stop being offended on someone else's behalf. It's annoying, and generally speaking the other people don't like it. They're a big kid, they should be able to handle a joke instead of being babied that their feelings were hurt in excess of $35,000.

[JZStudios]

5 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

What a joke Canada has become.

 

There no defending this sort of bullshit.

Oh, but apparently there is. Vehemently so.

 

3 hours ago, Andreas Lilja said:

Does this include people that died recently (at the time) by way of abduction, possible molestation, and murder?

 

Timming is key too, September 12th 2001 was too early.

Didn't stop Gilbert Gottfried.

 

[Lady Fitzgerald]

23 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Should he be fined $35000 for insulting the disabled?

 

Please, for the love of god, stop being offended on someone else's behalf. It's annoying, and generally speaking the other people don't like it. They're a big kid, they should be able to handle a joke instead of being babied that their feelings were hurt in excess of $35,000.

And we have another one who doesn't get it.

[Anomnomnomaly]

On 12/4/2019 at 5:36 PM, JZStudios said:

It's here, ladies and gentlemen, freedom of speech and expression officially gone in Canada. A Canadian comedian has been taken to court and fined a rather large sum over a joke.

This leads to a monumental moment of absolutely insane stupidity and hypocrisy of the "freedom" of Canadians;

Which is just... fantastic. MWAH. Beautiful.

 

 

There's a crucial difference here... Telling a joke that people find offensive about disabilities in general... those people can go fuck themselves (not condoning those jokes, just that there isn't a joke in existence that doesn't offend some one, some where). But targeting a specific person with a disability is a fuckwit move... You've gone beyond expressing humour, and into a deliberate targeted attack on an individual.  This isn't like mocking Trudeau for black face, this is attacking a kid with a severe physical impairment.

 

I used to do stand up for many years, was quite well known in the comedy circles in my country and rated as one of the up and coming new acts back in 98 when I came second in some major competition (rated as one of the top 20 new acts to watch).  Even back then, when things were a little looser and no so politically correct... a comedian would get crucified for pulling shit like that. I've seen an audience turn in an instant when a comedian takes it a step too far.

 

So yeah... fuck that guy... Freedom of speech doesn't give any one a free pass to be a dick.

[tankyx]

7 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

 

There's a crucial difference here... Telling a joke that people find offensive about disabilities in general... those people can go fuck themselves (not condoning those jokes, just that there isn't a joke in existence that doesn't offend some one, some where). But targeting a specific person with a disability is a fuckwit move... You've gone beyond expressing humour, and into a deliberate targeted attack on an individual.  This isn't like mocking Trudeau for black face, this is attacking a kid with a severe physical impairment.

 

I used to do stand up for many years, was quite well known in the comedy circles in my country and rated as one of the up and coming new acts back in 98 when I came second in some major competition (rated as one of the top 20 new acts to watch).  Even back then, when things were a little looser and no so politically correct... a comedian would get crucified for pulling shit like that. I've seen an audience turn in an instant when a comedian takes it a step too far.

 

So yeah... fuck that guy... Freedom of speech doesn't give any one a free pass to be a dick.

Well, it does. And even though, being a dick now can be fined 35K ?

[steelo]

It's happening in America too... In NYC, if you purposely misidentify a transgender person or make an off-color joke in public, you can receive a $250,000 fine (and jail time, if I'm not mistaken) The man who was partially responsible for this law ran for president and is a real corrupt piece of human garbage.

 

I do not want to turn this into a 'left' vs 'right' debate as I really hate both extremes. However, I usually gravitate to the side of conservatism since the Democratic party in America has gone completely off the rails. Today, limiting free speech to prevent 'hurt feelings' and to block opposing viewpoints is the new 'hip and cool' thing to do. Extremism is the new norm in America, and I'd imagine for much of the world.

 

We live in VERY dangerous times everywhere

[PCGuy_5960]

1 hour ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

Freedom of speech doesn't give any one a free pass to be a dick.

It absolutely does. You can be the biggest asshole on the planet, you are still protected under free speech.

1 hour ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

  Even back then, when things were a little looser and no so politically correct... a comedian would get crucified for pulling shit like that. I've seen an audience turn in an instant when a comedian takes it a step too far.

Which is perfectly fair and acceptable. Free speech also includes other people's right to disagree with you and call you out. I don't think a lot of people would disagree if you said that he should face criticism for this joke, but people do disagree that the government should step in and fine him $35K or even jail him for making a stupid joke.

[Anomnomnomaly]

49 minutes ago, steelo said:

It's happening in America too... In NYC, if you purposely misidentify a transgender person or make an off-color joke in public, you can receive a $250,000 fine (and jail time, if I'm not mistaken) The man who was partially responsible for this law ran for president and is a real corrupt piece of human garbage.

 

I do not want to turn this into a 'left' vs 'right' debate as I really hate both extremes. However, I usually gravitate to the side of conservatism since the Democratic party in America has gone completely off the rails. Today, limiting free speech to prevent 'hurt feelings' and to block opposing viewpoints is the new 'hip and cool' thing to do. Extremism is the new norm in America, and I'd imagine for much of the world.

 

We live in VERY dangerous times everywhere

It's not really a question of 'preventing hurt feelings' that's simply taking the argument to a ridiculous extreme to try and undermine the legitimacy of deliberate and targeted hate speech... Which in this case... is exactly the kind of crap we need to eradicate.

 

What you find that is some manipulative person... with some kind of power to push legislation... will come along and try to take it to exactly those kinds of ridiculous extremes... to undermine the good that 'can' be done.

 

Free speech is fine in principal... but when it's used to promote hate it's not being used in it's intended purpose and I would suspect that the founding fathers of the US would be aghast at it being used in such a manner.

 

I'm in the UK, and whilst we do have  a general freedom of speech... we also have laws regarding 'hate' speech. When they were introduced everyone was up in arms, comedians saying they would be prosecuted for telling jokes and the politicians saying that wouldn't happen.

 

To this day.. I am not aware of any such thing actually happening here in the UK... If I'm wrong I'm sure that some one will be along to tell me soon enough.  There are cases of comedians not being welcome in certain venues and so forth... some one resigned recently as head of some venue because they were over ruled on blocking a comedian called 'Roy Chubby Brown' as an act. Some people like him, I think he's a vile, racist bigoted piece of shit.... his comedy is from the dark ages... but then he's probably in his 60's or 70's now. But I don't try to stop anyone going to see him... although if you started raving about how good he was, I'd certainly reconsider how much contact I wanted with you in the future. 

 

I do recall a young man who got charged with making terror threats agaisnt the public and an airport a few years back... Some young idiot made a daft joke on twitter when they were cancelling flights about 'if they cancel my flight I'm gonna have to blow the place up' or something like that. he was arrested, charged, lost his job and so forth... It was quite clear that it was a joke in my opinion.. but it goes to show that everyday folks have to be careful when making certain types of jokes in the current climate where any kind of bomb threat has to be taken seriously. Jokes have their place.. but jokes in an appropriate setting that don't deliberately set out to target the vulnerable is just common sense really... and that's coming from a person who used to push the boundaries with my own stand up.

 

 

[steelo]

9 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

It absolutely does. You can be the biggest asshole on the planet, you are still protected under free speech.

Which is perfectly fair and acceptable. Free speech also includes other people's right to disagree with you and call you out. I don't think a lot of people would disagree if you said that he should face criticism for this joke, but people do disagree that the government should step in and fine him $35K or even jail him for making a stupid joke.

Absolutely true. This is setting a VERY dangerous precedent. In America, there is a constant power struggle between special interest groups who are trying to get a 'one-up' over everyone else.

 

Unfortunately, these days knee-jerk reactionary laws are being passed as a result of the unfortunate actions of a few. 

[steelo]

12 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

It's not really a question of 'preventing hurt feelings' that's simply taking the argument to a ridiculous extreme to try and undermine the legitimacy of deliberate and targeted hate speech... Which in this case... is exactly the kind of crap we need to eradicate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, we need to be VERY mindful about what truly qualifies as 'hate speech' There's a very fine line between what seems offensive to some and what is blatantly offensive to all.  Everybody is offended over everything these days.

 

On a slightly different note, there is no doubt politicians are using this to silence the voice of its opposition  (especially when it comes to transgender issues, prayer in schools and abortion) I cannot stress enough how dangerous it is to only allow one side to be heard.

[Anomnomnomaly]

3 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

It absolutely does. You can be the biggest asshole on the planet, you are still protected under free speech.

Which is perfectly fair and acceptable. Free speech also includes other people's right to disagree with you and call you out. I don't think a lot of people would disagree if you said that he should face criticism for this joke, but people do disagree that the government should step in and fine him $35K or even jail him for making a stupid joke.

I'm guessing... American... right?

 

So what we have here is a cultural difference. You've been taught that free speech means you can be the biggest, nastiest piece of shit on the planet and you get a free pass to say what ever, racists, hate fuelled, bigoted garbage you want... without any repercussions aside from other people calling you names.

 

Most of the world is waking up to the fact... this doesn't work in a modern world... and some are trying to take steps not to silence free speech but to help 'moderate it'... hell, you're a mod... you could just as easily be accused of censoring free speech for 'moderating' a thread on here if it strays off topic... whilst enshrining the glories of 'free speech'....  So we already make allowances and compromises of how far we are willing to let free speech go.

 

Some parts of the world are starting to set boundaries... if that comedian had made a more generalised joke about disabilities... no problem... free speech rules... but he deliberately targeted a specific individual... now we have a problem. We've crossed from general free speech into hate speech.

 

This happened in Canada, so the US free speech argument is moot and invalid... even the UK's hate speech laws is invalid really. Canada is generally a more tolerant place, but that doesn't mean they're tolerant of this kind of hate... I'm hardly surprised that he's been fined, nor am I that sad... you accept the consequences of your actions or you whinge like a bitch and stamp your feet crying 'not fair, I should have an exception'.

 

There's actually a Stephen Fry quote that I love to use... that kinda contradicts my point if you want to twist it.

 

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

 

Now that if taken out of context... completely contradicts what I'm saying... But he has clarified that he's referring to people who tend to act offended on behalf of others... and not people who are directly targeted for abuse.

[RonnieOP]

14 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Oh, but apparently there is. Vehemently so.

 

Didn't stop Gilbert Gottfried.

 

Whats the argument for it?

 

Comedy acts have never been factually accurate and i dont know of any comic that says their act is. 

 

Yes there are some factual parts to some jokes but its still a joke. 

 

Its like saying south park should be fined for making false claims when they joke about scientologists. Its a joke. 

 

If someone takes a comedians act as gospel they should be fined for being idiots.

[steelo]

8 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

I'm guessing... American... right?

 

So what we have here is a cultural difference. You've been taught that free speech means you can be the biggest, nastiest piece of shit on the planet and you get a free pass to say what ever, racists, hate fuelled, bigoted garbage you want... without any repercussions aside from other people calling you names.

Lack of tactfulness is not a crime...at least it isn't in America. 

 

Your statement is not entirely accurate. Although the Constitution of the United States protects my right to make whatever ignorant comment I'd like, there usually always are repercussions. For example, if I attend a White supremacist gathering and this is caught on video - More than likely, I will be without a job. 

 

I didn't break any laws, didn't face any jail time or fines. However, there will still be consequences to my actions. 

 

 

[Anomnomnomaly]

1 minute ago, RonnieOP said:

If someone takes a politicians act as gospel they should be fined for being idiots.

 

 

I fixed that for you. 

[RonnieOP]

4 minutes ago, steelo said:

However, we need to be VERY mindful about what truly qualifies as 'hate speech' There's a very fine line between what seems offensive to some and what is blatantly offensive to all. 

 

Everybody is offended over everything these days.

Hate speech isnt a real thing. Its not a legally defined term. 

 

Canada doesnt have freedom of speech so i cant comment on how they should handle it. But in the states freedom of speech covers anything they could classify hate speech as.

 

If they claim that someone saying "i hate black people" is hate speech. Then ok its hate speech. Doesnt mean they should be charged with any sort of crime. Unless you are calling others to action there should be no legal grounds to go after someone because they say something stupid.

[steelo]

Just now, Tegos said:

Freedom of Speech doesn't imply freedom from consequence.

People can say whatever their want, but it'll probably come back to bite 'em on the ass at some point.

 

Still, 35,000 is too much.

 

$1 is too much. I don't know how Canada can consider itself to be a free nation at that point.

[Anomnomnomaly]

1 minute ago, steelo said:

Lack of tactfulness is not a crime...at least it isn't in America. 

 

Your statement is not entirely accurate. Although the Constitution of the United States protects my right to make whatever ignorant comment I'd like, there usually always are repercussions. For example, if I attend a White supremacist gathering and my workplace sees video more than likely, I will be without a job.

 

 

 

You see... that's not a black or white scenario... attending a gathering that's legal... not offensive... going to said gathering and chanting hate speech at others.... that's offensive.

 

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, every one is free to have whatever opinions that damn well please... that's a given as far as I'm concerned.  But the moment you start trying to force that opinion on to others... that's when it becomes a problem.

[RonnieOP]

1 hour ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

 

There's a crucial difference here... Telling a joke that people find offensive about disabilities in general... those people can go fuck themselves (not condoning those jokes, just that there isn't a joke in existence that doesn't offend some one, some where). But targeting a specific person with a disability is a fuckwit move... You've gone beyond expressing humour, and into a deliberate targeted attack on an individual.  This isn't like mocking Trudeau for black face, this is attacking a kid with a severe physical impairment.

 

I used to do stand up for many years, was quite well known in the comedy circles in my country and rated as one of the up and coming new acts back in 98 when I came second in some major competition (rated as one of the top 20 new acts to watch).  Even back then, when things were a little looser and no so politically correct... a comedian would get crucified for pulling shit like that. I've seen an audience turn in an instant when a comedian takes it a step too far.

 

So yeah... fuck that guy... Freedom of speech doesn't give any one a free pass to be a dick.

Freedom of speech does 100% give someone a free pass legally to be a dick.

 

And theres nothing wrong with that.

[Anomnomnomaly]

Just now, RonnieOP said:

Freedom of speech does 100% give someone a free pass legally to be a dick. IN AMERICA

 

And theres nothing wrong with that. IN AMERICA

 

 

Fixed that for you... doesn't apply in the rest of the world or to the other 7 billion inhabitants. 

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

 

You see... that's not a black or white scenario... attending a gathering that's legal... not offensive... going to said gathering and chanting hate speech at others.... that's offensive.

 

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, every one is free to have whatever opinions that damn well please... that's a given as far as I'm concerned.  But the moment you start trying to force that opinion on to others... that's when it becomes a problem.

Theres no constitutional right to not being offended though.

 

And nobody can force an opinion on someone. Dont like what they are saying then dont listen.

[PCGuy_5960]

6 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

To this day.. I am not aware of any such thing actually happening here in the UK... If I'm wrong I'm sure that some one will be along to tell me soon enough. 

Do you remember the nazi pug guy? That was in the UK

6 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

Free speech is fine in principal... but when it's used to promote hate it's not being used in it's intended purpose and I would suspect that the founding fathers of the US would be aghast at it being used in such a manner.

No they wouldn't, the right to freedom of speech is quite clearly stated in the US Constitution.

3 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

I'm guessing... American... right?

 

So what we have here is a cultural difference. You've been taught that free speech means you can be the biggest, nastiest piece of shit on the planet and you get a free pass to say what ever, racists, hate fuelled, bigoted garbage you want... without any repercussions aside from other people calling you names.

I truly don't get how this is a America vs the world thing. Yes, that is what free speech means. 

 

I only have a simple question: If "hate speech" was actually banned, who gets to decide what is and is not hate speech? The government? Don't you see the problem?

[dalekphalm]

Just now, RonnieOP said:

Theres no constitutional right to not being offended though.

 

And nobody can force an opinion on someone. Dont like what they are saying then dont listen.

Why even have Defamation laws then?

[steelo]

5 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

 

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, every one is free to have whatever opinions that damn well please... that's a given as far as I'm concerned.  But the moment you start trying to force that opinion on to others... that's when it becomes a problem.

People always have the option to just not listen. I see childish anti-Trump displays and 'F Trump' bumper stickers all over town every day but I just ignore them. Simple as that.

 

 The idea of people 'imposing their will' upon others is really getting out of hand (at least it is in America) There have been lawsuits over school districts not allowing children to silently pray in class because the districts claim they are forcing their religion upon others. 

[PCGuy_5960]

2 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

Fixed that for you... doesn't apply in the rest of the world or to the other 7 billion inhabitants. 

It does, to ANY country that has ACTUAL freedom of speech. The moment you place limitations on speech, it stops being free speech.

[RonnieOP]

2 minutes ago, Anomnomnomaly said:

 

 

Fixed that for you... doesn't apply in the rest of the world or to the other 7 billion inhabitants. 

My bad. Read to fast and thought you guys were part of the people talking about americas freedom of speech.

 

I lose alot of respect for any place that doesnt have freedom of speech yet claim they are a free country.