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JZStudios

Canadian fined $35,000 for hurting feelings

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3 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

So while you can say about anything without being arrested or charged for it... you can be fired, denied employment, etc for it. So you can still have complications over things you say, just it won't be coming from the government.

yeah and especially now with the internet age and snowflakes and social justice warriors

 

people get fired from jobs all the time with stuff they post on social media, or acts they do while being filmed by television, or photographed by anyone.

 

 

3 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

That i know of no country outside the us has legal freedom of speech.

legal freedom of speech

well Canada has freedom of speech, and you can say anything you want, and it takes a lot for speech to become a hate crime. certain boundries have to be crossed, certain levels of legal standing have to be crossed in order for speech to be a hate crime. being fined has much lower legal standing then being charged with a crime.

 

the canadian government over the years are making stupid laws in my opinion. like using the proper gender pronouns to address someone, the toronto professor jordan peterson i listen to on youtube brings up good argumentative points. but canada is going downhill in many regards.

 

Bill C-16 passed by a vote of 67–11 this week  ( Saturday, June 17, 2017 )

they are going down a very slippery slope

https://stream.org/canada-passes-law-criminalizing-use-of-wrong-gender-pronouns/

 

 

7 cases

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/when-is-it-hate-speech-7-significant-canadian-cases-1.1036731

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He was found guilty by the Saskatchewan Human Rights Tribunal in 2005, but that decision was later appealed and overturned in 2010. The tribunal then appealed to the country's top court.

On Wednesday, a unanimous decision from the Supreme Court found that most of Saskatchewan's human rights code was constitutional. The legislation infringes the right to free speech and religion, but the court found it was a reasonable limit.

 

charges of hate crimes are rare in canada, and it takes a lot for someone to be charged with a hate crime.

however being fined $35,000 canadian rupees means its an ongoing saga in appeal court which will ultimately be thrown out or drastically reduced.

 

 

Quote

Two of three judges ruled Mike Ward’s comments regarding Gabriel were not justifiable in a society where freedom of expression is valued.

seems the judges are hypacritcal

 

 

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Ward was originally ordered to pay an additional $7,000 to Gabriel’s mother—a fine which the courts overturned due to the indirect relationship between the joke and the boy’s mother.

 

Quote

Ward’s jokes called Gabriel a bad singer, stating that he was “terminally ill” and that Gabriel not passing away meant that his “Make a Wish” was invalid. Gabriel was not actually terminally ill, as Gabriel’s genetic disease—Treacher Collins syndrome—does not generally have an effect on lifespan. He was also not a Make-a-Wish kid, as Ward was embellishing the story for the sake of the joke.

 

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Ward’s jokes make have been tasteless, but does that mean he should have to pay $35,000? I don’t think so, but the Quebec Human Rights Tribunal ruled the joke was discrimination against Gabriel and his parents and ordered Ward to pay damages for “making discriminatory comments regarding Jéremy Gabriel, infringing his right to equality.”

 

Quote

Mike Ward responded to the verdict on Twitter, declaring that he refuses to pay the fine, and plans to take this fight to the Supreme Court. “In a ‘free’ country, it shouldn’t be up to a judge to decide what constitutes a joke on stage. The people in attendance laughing already answered that question.”

well quebec is not a free province

 

the judge is out of order, and that judge needs to be looked at for every prior case that judge has ever presided over!

 

Quote

“I’m telling you right now, I [sic] rather go to prison than pay even one-tenth of this stupid fine.”

I agree with you on that. It would cost the quebec government hundreds and hundreds of dollars a day to house and feed you. the real cost would be $300+/day

 

Quote

Ward’s case will likely have huge implications in Canada and elsewhere as to what constitutes free expression and what constitutes discrimination.

yea its a sad road that canada is going down, a very very sad road

 

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I’m failing to see how a joke can be deemed discrimination by any sensible human being. “Comedy isn’t a crime,” Ward says, and he's right. Being mocked doesn’t entitle to you to financial restitution.

comedy is freedom of speech, and if it constitutes a hate crime, then a $35k judgement would still be way out of line.

 

 

Quote

There’s a part of me that wants to dismiss this

i wonder what would happen if you just completely ignore the ruling and never go into quebec whatsoever. what could happen., what would happen. just avoid that province all together, there is no loss there, none whatsoever.

 

 

 

Quote

Think about it, even Christian bakers can’t refuse to make a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding without having a six-figure fine levied on them. Free expression and religious liberty are slowly becoming outmoded concepts, and that should frighten everyone.

its a sad state of affairs in the great country that we call Canada.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What in the FUCK happened here to where this thread wound up with 300 replies?


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Sounds like slander to me, and last I checked slander is illegal.

 

But I'm not a lawyer, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Good thing that's not what I said then.

Yeah sure, way to ignore the point with an ad hom the instant you get called out on your untenable bullshit. The only one who seems to have been touched in a soft spot here is you, answering despite having nothing to add to the conversation and despite claiming you don't care.

Sure thing, cling on to your arbitrary borders and your unwarranted national pride while the world moves on without you (and good riddance at that).

ok boomer

 

Why don't you go live naked in the woods while you're at it, surely that will teach you to be strong.

im 29. so im a millennial.

 

Doesnt mean i cant call out this generation for being a bunch of pussies looking for hand outs.

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10 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

im 29. so im a millennial.

ok boomer ;)

LOL

 

i love how this all comes down to name calling

which I did, but I was being sarcastic

dont be offended ;)

 

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8 minutes ago, amdorintel said:

ok boomer ;)

LOL

 

i love how this all comes down to name calling

which I did, but I was being sarcastic

dont be offended ;)

 

yeah i can tell your joking around.

 

The other user on the hand doesnt have a valid argument though so they resort to the "boomer" meme.

 

Its not even debatable that this generation are soft. They want to have the "right" to not be offended. and they want everything handed to them.

 

 

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1 hour ago, FezBoy said:

Sounds like slander to me, and last I checked slander is illegal.

 

But I'm not a lawyer, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Reason it shouldnt be slander is because it was part of a comedy act. Comedy acts are fiction. No joke should be taken as factual.

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On 12/4/2019 at 12:36 PM, JZStudios said:

Ward’s jokes make have been tasteless, but does that mean he should have to pay $35,000?

Its called Defamation of Character. If the victim had harm come to his person or his reputation then he would have a case. Also freedom of speech is more of a protection from the Govenrment rather than protection aginst individuals. Its kinda like atleast in the US, employers can at any time do a search of your locker (unless outlawed by state laws), but Public employees (Government employees) they would require a warrant to do any searches. 


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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I am totaly against this sjw gender hatespeech BS thats going on. But this case doesnt realy sound it belongs in that category.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
17 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

What in the FUCK happened here to where this thread wound up with 300 replies?

Arguments over freedom of speech and how people want it restricted, and whether or not a joke said during a comedy act is in fact a joke and not slander.

 

16 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

yeah i can tell your joking around.

 

The other user on the hand doesnt have a valid argument though so they resort to the "boomer" meme.

Sauron has no argument. He claimed that I keep changing my opinion, despite the fact that I've repeated myself a fair few times and posted videos supporting my view, but they were pretty much all from the fascist wearing a commie hat, so I'm assuming he didn't watch them. Then he called me a 4 year old.

Then he said punching down shouldn't be allowed, but disagreed that you should only be able to punch up. 🤔

In other news, I'll just wait a few weeks until that stupid meme dies. Apparently boomers are 25-30 year olds who actually work for money and don't cry at every challenge instead of people born in the late 40's or 50's.

13 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Its called Defamation of Character. If the victim had harm come to his person or his reputation then he would have a case. Also freedom of speech is more of a protection from the Govenrment rather than protection aginst individuals. Its kinda like atleast in the US, employers can at any time do a search of your locker (unless outlawed by state laws), but Public employees (Government employees) they would require a warrant to do any searches. 

It's not called defamation of character for 2 distinct reasons,

1. It was a joke.

2. The case had no mention nor anything to do with defamation.

 

As an aside, Elon Musk was acquitted of defamation charges against that diver he repeatedly called a pedophile and actually hired a private investigator to try and dig up dirt, even saying the only reason he was in (Taiwan I think) was because he was looking for a child to marry.

So... this guy says a joke ON STAGE in the middle of an act, and he's charged with impeding someones right to freedom of expression somehow, whatever the fuck that means, but repeatedly calling someone a pedophile on social media, news outlets, interviews, etc. and hiring a P.I. isn't defamation. Does that add up to you? Because it sure as fuck doesn't to me.

 

I mean... "Infringing his right to equality"

 

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6 hours ago, JZStudios said:

So... this guy says a joke ON STAGE in the middle of an act, and he's charged with impeding someones right to freedom of expression somehow, whatever the fuck that means, but repeatedly calling someone a pedophile on social media, news outlets, interviews, etc. and hiring a P.I. isn't defamation. Does that add up to you? Because it sure as fuck doesn't to me.

well for one, you are comparing the USA to Canada, but not only Canada, the province of Quebec within Canada has different laws then the rest of the provinces in Canada.

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6 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Does that add up to you?

Ones is a comedian the other is RICH. Rich people can pretty much get away with murder at this point. 


You ever notice that many establishments have a sign that as "No Shirt, No Shoes, No service"? They never say anything about pants............ You know what that implies. You dont have to wear pants. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
6 hours ago, amdorintel said:

well for one, you are comparing the USA to Canada, but not only Canada, the province of Quebec within Canada has different laws then the rest of the provinces in Canada.

I wasn't comparing anything. It's two separate cases about different topics. One was a defamation case, the other was.. freedom of expression, whatever that means.

 

5 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Ones is a comedian the other is RICH. Rich people can pretty much get away with murder at this point. 

Only politicians. Didn't work so well for Bill Cosby or Weinstein.

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Comics not aimed at children are supposed to be assholes. The art of standup is to say things to get a rise out of the crowd. Hell, even Jeff Dunham with his puppets will tell adult jokes.

 

This was also Quebec which I'd say is the equivalent to Florida in the US as in why does it exist lol


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Why is freedom of speech always used as an excuse to be an twat, YES freedom of speech is important, but you also have to be responsible for your actions.

 

as stated earlier it seems that this is based on the comic altering the truth and actually lying about the kid, and slandering him, that is not legal.

 

if you hide behind freedom of speech, then on person could just make up shit about linus, acting wierd around kids, and killing his lively hood, that is also why many celebrities actually wins cases against news outlets..

 

we have so many cases in Denmark, where the mother claims the father to be a poor parent to get the full rights to the child after a divorce. in many of the cases it ends up being shown that it is not factual just lying, that is also not legal, or stating that you have been raped, when you have not.

 

COMICS are not .. "free" to do whatever they want, and therefor damage other peoples life, so if all that has been stated about the actual story is correct, then he should pay for deformation, and seriously learn to actually delivery some comic relief without slandering people, and going after the weakest parts of sociaty.

 

seriously i really hate these guys, and i am from a country where we love too make fun of eachother, in a really dark way.

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1 hour ago, RasmusDC said:

i am from a country where we love too make fun of eachother, in a really dark way.

You say that as if it makes you some type of authority on what is okay for humor.


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3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

You say that as if it makes you some type of authority on what is okay for humor.

Not at all, just stating that you can make fun of eachother, without degrading or plain telling lies... just trying to state that i am not fragile in mind

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8 minutes ago, RasmusDC said:

Not at all, just stating that you can make fun of eachother, without degrading or plain telling lies... just trying to state that i am not fragile in mind

Defamation isn’t the issue here, that’s been well established at this point.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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2 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

Not at all, just stating that you can make fun of eachother, without degrading or plain telling lies... just trying to state that i am not fragile in mind

in that case, every single joke is a lie

thinking through it more, how would you know if something thats been said is really what happened.

that is the dilemma

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Posted · Original PosterOP
11 hours ago, Mooshi said:

Comics not aimed at children are supposed to be assholes. The art of standup is to say things to get a rise out of the crowd. Hell, even Jeff Dunham with his puppets will tell adult jokes.

 

This was also Quebec which I'd say is the equivalent to Florida in the US as in why does it exist lol

To be a safe haven for Cubans and college students? Or retirement homes?

 

7 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

Why is freedom of speech always used as an excuse to be an twat, YES freedom of speech is important, but you also have to be responsible for your actions.

 

as stated earlier it seems that this is based on the comic altering the truth and actually lying about the kid, and slandering him, that is not legal.

There was no truth, that's why it's a joke. He could've also stated the kid sucked helium and began to float.

Also, it wasn't a defamation case.

7 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

if you hide behind freedom of speech, then on person could just make up shit about linus, acting wierd around kids, and killing his lively hood, that is also why many celebrities actually wins cases against news outlets..

That depends. I'm sure someone does somewhere, but compensation for defamation has actual values, not a random number pulled from a hat or the Wheel of Fortune. Those statements presumably also wouldn't be occurring during the middle of a stand up act.

There's rules that must be met to claim defamation, at least in the US, and not one of them is "Told a joke during a comedy act."

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/defamation-law-made-simple-29718.html

7 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

we have so many cases in Denmark, where the mother claims the father to be a poor parent to get the full rights to the child after a divorce. in many of the cases it ends up being shown that it is not factual just lying, that is also not legal, or stating that you have been raped, when you have not.

Those aren't jokes. I could be wrong about globally, but usually the mother ends up with the children regardless, unless she's heavily in debt or has no job or something. But at least in the US the man is pretty much forced to pay child care for the next however many years until the child is 18.

Citing that someone raped you when the information is false moves into actual pre-established law, but only for wasting police time or resources.

7 hours ago, RasmusDC said:

COMICS are not .. "free" to do whatever they want, and therefor damage other peoples life, so if all that has been stated about the actual story is correct, then he should pay for deformation, and seriously learn to actually delivery some comic relief without slandering people, and going after the weakest parts of sociaty.

 

seriously i really hate these guys, and i am from a country where we love too make fun of eachother, in a really dark way.

It wasn't defamation, and there was no cited defamation in the case. I don't know why everyone sticks onto it being defamation.

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On 12/7/2019 at 4:35 AM, Sauron said:

Irrelevant. By that logic you could argue that politicians aren't representative of the population because the majority of the population aren't politicians.

They aren't and there are arguments for devolving power away from politicians and doing more localized government (e.g. Nordic countries only have ~5 million people to them - good governance can only scale so far)

On 12/7/2019 at 4:35 AM, Sauron said:

So you have no idea, and the link you posted is for something in the US,

The systems, legal traditions and underlying cultures which brought them forth are VERY VERY similar. For what it's worth it's not unheard of for both the US and Canada to cite legal findings in one country. Both also in some cases still use old English law. 

The underlying issue is the same and a high court ruled that there exists at least one "human rights council" that systematically denies the human rights of certain peoples.
 

On 12/7/2019 at 4:35 AM, Sauron said:

So you have no idea, and the link you posted is for something in the US, and yet you still try to push the idea that somehow the HRT has some crypto lizard conspiracy agenda to fine mediocre (at best) comedians for making fun of disabled children. Nice. Do you want to check if the members are Jews while you're at it?

I don't know what HRT means, I don't care if someone is Jewish (I've had Jewish roommates) and if I have any bias it's against top down authoritarianism by a group that is irrepresentative of those it's trying to control - part of the reason for emphasizing more localized governance. 

 

On 12/7/2019 at 4:35 AM, Sauron said:

Good thing they have a dedicated tribunal to find that out, eh?

From what I can discern the majority of these tribunals are kangaroo courts with minimal accountability. 

There needs to be an audit for bias. 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, comander said:

There needs to be an audit for bias. 

For a second I thought you were going to pull a 180 and say there needs to be an audit for Jews.

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