i need help i think i made a mistake?

[Roswell]

4 hours ago, MoriMori said:

very inspiring

 

 

i did it with a gtx 750 which was manufactured way after 2006.. also i live in Israel so i guess this eu restriction he was talking about apples on me

anyway im gonna heat it up and vent it, go over it with a clean wet towel and go over it again with alcohol, thanks for help anyway

As I said earlier, there are exemptions for solder in the law, so it's possible that it contains lead, and definitely contains other harmful stuff. Israel also isn't part of the EU.

 

None of what you're going to do will remove the issue.

[Kisai]

8 hours ago, MoriMori said:

so basically i watched this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xanr4jkmEc 

i kinda missed the part where he said not to use a home oven and since i really didnt see any other warning i did it at my home, so now im afraid to use the oven.

does anyone know of some kind of material that i can use to clean it? maybe even leave it hot with a door open to kill all the bacterias? or use 90% alcohol to clean it?

i really dont know what to do and i dont really have the money right now to spend on another oven.

thanks for the help.

Replace the oven. The issue is that you have no idea what you may have contaminated the oven with. You shouldn't even use the stove since the oven vents through the stovetop.

 

With that said, I find it hard to believe you contaminated it with anything truely toxic. Lead might be a concern, but you don't know if lead is in anything. There might be heavy metals released by heating it. 

[imreloadin]

Personally I think it's time to invite over all of the people you don't like for a nice dinner...

[Underi]

14 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

 

RoHS includes exemptions for lead solder. It's also not enforced everywhere, it's a EU thing. Additionally, lead isn't the only toxic thing going on in a video card.

 

9 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

As I said earlier, there are exemptions for solder in the law, so it's possible that it contains lead, and definitely contains other harmful stuff. Israel also isn't part of the EU.

 

None of what you're going to do will remove the issue.

Consumer electronics have to be RoHS compliant if sold in the EU. You're telling me graphics card manufacturers made EU versions of their cards with leadless solder and made cards with leaded solder for other areas? You're just trying to get people to panic with false information. Reflowing a GPU in a home oven won't contaminate it and make it unusable for cooking.

[Roswell]

2 hours ago, Underi said:

 

Consumer electronics have to be RoHS compliant if sold in the EU. You're telling me graphics card manufacturers made EU versions of their cards with leadless solder and made cards with leaded solder for other areas? You're just trying to get people to panic with false information. Reflowing a GPU in a home oven won't contaminate it and make it unusable for cooking.

I guess you didn't read what you quoted. There are exemptions for lead based solder, among many, many other applications.

[Kilrah]

1 minute ago, Vitamanic said:

I guess you didn't read what you quoted. There are exemptions for lead based solder, among many, many other applications.

A GPU, unless it was repaired (repair is an exemption) would not qualify for any of them.

 

[Mark Kaine]

20 hours ago, Vitamanic said:

Lead and tin are still commonly used and are volatile at those temperatures, that's why it's unusable now as lead poisoning wouldn't be fun.

 

I have no clue how to clean it out, but alcohol or common cleaning products definitely aren't going to do anything.

Actually yes,  cleaning it would totally work. But you'd need to clean - very thoroughly *every* single part,  not just the walls,  everything inside out - which means completely dismantling. Nothing more nothing less. 

 

I don't think that's worth it or even possible for the average person however,  so it's probably better to just get a new oven and learn from the past mistakes and that electronical components can be and often are indeed highly toxic. 

[Roswell]

13 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

A GPU, unless it was repaired (repair is an exemption) would not qualify for any of them.

 

That's incorrect.

[Kilrah]

None of the exemptions in there apply to a graphics card as far as I can see, so maybe you'd want to point to the one you're thinking of.

[Underi]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:24 PM, Vitamanic said:

I guess you didn't read what you quoted. There are exemptions for lead based solder, among many, many other applications.

My GTX 970 has a RoHS sticker on it so I am assuming graphics cards are not an exception.

[RonnieOP]

On 11/29/2019 at 8:32 AM, Mark Kaine said:

Actually yes,  cleaning it would totally work. But you'd need to clean - very thoroughly *every* single part,  not just the walls,  everything inside out - which means completely dismantling. Nothing more nothing less. 

 

I don't think that's worth it or even possible for the average person however,  so it's probably better to just get a new oven and learn from the past mistakes and that electronical components can be and often are indeed highly toxic. 

People do reflows in their personal ovens all the time with no issues.

 

Yes there is a chance but its very slim.

 

Tbh id bet even without cleaning it at all he would be fine. 

[dalekphalm]

10 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

People do reflows in their personal ovens all the time with no issues.

 

Yes there is a chance but its very slim.

 

Tbh id bet even without cleaning it at all he would be fine. 

While the risk probably is minuscule - the fact that people do it all the time and haven't had any issues means literally nothing.

 

Plenty of toxic chemicals take years to show symptoms or may need accumulation over years before it reaches dangerous levels.

 

So the fact that people are okay now may not mean anything if some of them develop cancer or other side effects in 15-20 years.

 

*Note: not saying reflowing in your oven specifically will cause cancer

[mr moose]

I wouldn't worry about it,  As an electronic enthusiast who's had his head over lead based solder for god knows how long, and a lot of people I know in the industry, lead does not vaporize at those temperatures. Even if you melted plastic parts in there Like we used to do all the time with shrinky's and chip packets) the residues left over are not highly toxic, will not kill you and if you are extremely unlucky and do it every day with multiple cards in your oven over several years you might eventually get sick.

 

Hell, even the over cleaners we use on a regular basis have more caustic chemicals in them.

[RonnieOP]

13 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

While the risk probably is minuscule - the fact that people do it all the time and haven't had any issues means literally nothing.

 

Plenty of toxic chemicals take years to show symptoms or may need accumulation over years before it reaches dangerous levels.

 

So the fact that people are okay now may not mean anything if some of them develop cancer or other side effects in 15-20 years.

 

*Note: not saying reflowing in your oven specifically will cause cancer

Is there any evidence to show someone did get sick from this exact situation?

 

Seems like it would be impossible for someone to get cancer 20 years from now and be able to factually say it was due to this one action.

 

 

 

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Is there any evidence to show someone did get sick from this exact situation?

 

Seems like it would be impossible for someone to get cancer 20 years from now and be able to factually say it was due to this one action.

It's incredibly difficult to narrow down the point of cause for something like Cancer, in the vast majority of cases.

 

This is in large part how large companies often get away with poisoning water supplies, people, etc. Symptoms often don't show up for decades and by then, it's hard to prove.

[RonnieOP]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

It's incredibly difficult to narrow down the point of cause for something like Cancer, in the vast majority of cases.

 

This is in large part how large companies often get away with poisoning water supplies, people, etc. Symptoms often don't show up for decades and by then, it's hard to prove.

So that kinds proves that he shouldnt be freaking out and looking at new ovens.

 

Since we dont even know if theres ever been a case of someone getting any sort of sickness from this.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, RonnieOP said:

So that kinds proves that he shouldnt be freaking out and looking at new ovens.

No, that doesn't prove anything.

 

All it means is that just because something doesn't make you sick immediately it is automatically safe. Some kinds of health impacts take years to surface.

Just now, RonnieOP said:

Since we dont even know if theres ever been a case of someone getting any sort of sickness from this.

Indeed - but, in the future, he really shouldn't use his oven.

 

He's probably fine. He should take the precaution though and not do it again.

[RonnieOP]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

No, that doesn't prove anything.

 

All it means is that just because something doesn't make you sick immediately it is automatically safe. Some kinds of health impacts take years to surface.

Indeed - but, in the future, he really shouldn't use his oven.

 

He's probably fine. He should take the precaution though and not do it again.

Why shouldnt he use the oven though?

 

Weve already established we dont know of any case the can be tied to reflowing.

 

So how do we know its not safe?  How do we know the a simple reflow will make his oven toxic and cause any issues down the road.

 

I keep hearing people say what "could" happen. But they dont have any evidence of how it could happen.

 

 

[dalekphalm]

Just now, RonnieOP said:

Why shouldnt he use the oven though?

I meant for future "reflowing".

Just now, RonnieOP said:

Weve already established we dont know of any case the can be tied to reflowing.

You're still dealing with potentially toxic chemicals in a device used to prepare food that you ingest.

 

Even if we ignore any possible fumes from lead, etc - any plastic bits almost certainly started to offgas or possibly melt. Even if the amount we're talking about is small, it could still be present, and could still pose long term health risks.

Just now, RonnieOP said:

So how do we know its not safe?  How do we know the a simple reflow will make his oven toxic and cause any issues down the road.

We don't - but we still know there are potentially toxic substances involved.

 

You really want to take that risk when it's easily avoidable?

Just now, RonnieOP said:

I keep hearing people say what "could" happen. But they dont have any evidence of how it could happen.

You take the risks that you're comfortable with. Personally, I wouldn't even reflow in my oven to begin with - if I really needed to, I'd buy a used toaster oven or something and use it strictly for that.

 

I don't think he necessarily needs to toss out his oven. I would advise the OP to use oven cleaner and clean the thing top to bottom, inside and out, at least 2 or 3 times. Then he's probably fine to cook food in it. I would also advise him to never heat anything not involved in cooking in his oven again.

 

Separate food preparation from other things. It's common sense.

[Tristerin]

My 2 copper coins:  buy the oven.  You may feel the sting from your $$ now but chalk it up to a life lesson.  The potential for danger is pretty high (imho).  Id rather be healthy in my old age than worry about saving up a hundred bucks and buying a used stove.

 

If you have no heart you could technically resell your old stove after but I believe in Karma and its ilk, so I don't advise that.

 

Just because my gun wont go off without pulling the trigger I still don't point it at myself and others because people on the internet argued and some said it should be safe to do so and others said I shouldn't do it.

 

 

[SpaceGhostC2C]

39 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Is there any evidence to show someone did get sick from this exact situation?

Is there any evidence of someone getting hurt by shoving a triple-slot GPU up their anus?

Mind you, I'm asking for evidence about that exact situation.

 

Metal poisoning (and other materials) is established. Of course, I doubt the experiments consisted precisely in baking GPUs...

 

39 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

Seems like it would be impossible for someone to get cancer 20 years from now and be able to factually say it was due to this one action.

That's forensic investigation, not scientific research. Trying to pin down someone's dead to a specific event makes not scientific sense and leads nowhere - even when you know, it's just one observation. What we do is to collect many data points, find correlations, investigate the possible mechanisms that could be behind a causal relationship, and do our best with observational and/or experimental to confirm causality beyond correlation.

It's not a matter of "uncle Tim smoke one cigerette and got a tumor in his lung the size of an apple the next day", and it's not a matter of "I've been smoking all my life and I feel fine" either.

 

30 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

So how do we know its not safe?  How do we know the a simple reflow will make his oven toxic and cause any issues down the road.

Oh, we do know, because we know the materials used in making circuit boards, we know their phase change temperatures, and we know which ones are toxic. There is no doubt that it is a bad idea. What you may be trying to ask is "how do we know that the quantities emitted in a single run, and the chances of absorbing them when cooking later, are by themselves bad enough?" And you are right, we don't know, at least I don't know how much it is (not knowing means that we can't rule out that yes, one time is enough. I tend to think it isn't, but I don't know this). Not knowing the quantitative answer doesn't mean we don't know the qualitative answer. Which means that the worst possible advice is to keep repeating the procedure until it definitely becomes enough.

Just like we know mercury is bad, we know some fish contain particularly relevant quantities of it, yet we eat those fish - but get a warning about how often and how much to eat. We know mercury kills, we know fish contains mercury, and as opposed to this example, we do know that a little fish won't kill you (or will do it so slowly that it doesn't matter). You don't need "one guy who ate a can of tuna and died" to prove that - that's not the point.

[RonnieOP]

33 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Is there any evidence of someone getting hurt by shoving a triple-slot GPU up their anus?

Mind you, I'm asking for evidence about that exact situation.

 

Metal poisoning (and other materials) is established. Of course, I doubt the experiments consisted precisely in baking GPUs...

 

That's forensic investigation, not scientific research. Trying to pin down someone's dead to a specific event makes not scientific sense and leads nowhere - even when you know, it's just one observation. What we do is to collect many data points, find correlations, investigate the possible mechanisms that could be behind a causal relationship, and do our best with observational and/or experimental to confirm causality beyond correlation.

It's not a matter of "uncle Tim smoke one cigerette and got a tumor in his lung the size of an apple the next day", and it's not a matter of "I've been smoking all my life and I feel fine" either.

 

Oh, we do know, because we know the materials used in making circuit boards, we know their phase change temperatures, and we know which ones are toxic. There is no doubt that it is a bad idea. What you may be trying to ask is "how do we know that the quantities emitted in a single run, and the chances of absorbing them when cooking later, are by themselves bad enough?" And you are right, we don't know, at least I don't know how much it is (not knowing means that we can't rule out that yes, one time is enough. I tend to think it isn't, but I don't know this). Not knowing the quantitative answer doesn't mean we don't know the qualitative answer. Which means that the worst possible advice is to keep repeating the procedure until it definitely becomes enough.

Just like we know mercury is bad, we know some fish contain particularly relevant quantities of it, yet we eat those fish - but get a warning about how often and how much to eat. We know mercury kills, we know fish contains mercury, and as opposed to this example, we do know that a little fish won't kill you (or will do it so slowly that it doesn't matter). You don't need "one guy who ate a can of tuna and died" to prove that - that's not the point.

Yes we have evidence to show the forcing objects into your ass can hurt. Thats a horrible comparison.

 

Metal poisoning does exist. But ill ask you. Do we know that reflowing has caused it?  Do we know that it will transfer to his food?

 

Im not advocating for someone to do it every day. Im more getting at the people who think that one reflow should cause someone to throw out a perfectly good oven when no one can even point to a case where metal poisoning was caused by this. 

 

Its always "could" happen. But nobody seems to be able to show where it has happened.

[RonnieOP]

54 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

People still do these ghetto reflows?

 

I think Louis deleted his rant, and that's what I wanted to link.

As a last ditch effort when you dont have funds to pay for repair its worth a shot.

 

Its worked out for me in the past a few times.

[RonnieOP]

25 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

You're just setting it up for more failure in the future by cooking parts not meant to get that hot, and potentially ruining your oven.  But, have fun with that if you want.  It's just an overall bad idea.

A video card, xbox, etc that works for another 6 months is better then one that doesnt work ever again.

 

Nothing last forever. Anytime you repair something it will eventually fail again. 

 

I did a reflow on a 290x. My daughter used it for another 4 months. Cost me $0. 

 

The xbox 360 they use to play minecraft and netflix i reflowed. Cost me $0 and that was sometime in 2018. 

 

Like i said if its out of warranty and the repair costs isnt worth it. Why wouldnt someone try it out? Costs nothing. Even if its only temporary its better then nothing.

[RonnieOP]

13 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Or, you can fix it properly?  You also pretty much made sure it didn't ever work again by baking it.

 

If you mess up it's far more prone to, and by baking it you are messing it up more.  It also sounds like you're just going for the band-aid approach of this scenario rather than doing a long term fix.

 

You baked a GPU, you did not reflow it properly.  There's a difference.   Was a reflow warranted, or was there another issue?
 

Or, did you bake it?   Because putting it in your kitchen oven is not how you do an actual reflow.   You're just damaging it more, and not doing a proper repair hence why it failed after four months.   You could have fixed it properly then sold it. 
 

Potentially ruining an oven is it worth it, though?  You're also assuming the fix is going to cost a fortune, and breaking it more isn't really a fix at all.  Heat bill, probably ruining the oven, ruining parts that could be fixed/salvaged, and lots more.   Or, you could do a proper fix which probably isn't that expensive, you're just auto-assuming it is.

Are you not reading my posts?

When your doing this sort of thing your not looking for a long term fix. Its just a last ditch effort to see if itll work.

 

For $0 i got an extra 4 months out of a 290. A 290 isnt worth anything. Its def not worth paying to fix and then going through the hassle of selling and hoping to break even imo. If it didnt work i wouldve tossed it in the trash. So getting an extra few months for $0 was 100% worth jt.

For $0 ive so far gotten over a years worth of use out of a 360 that i got for free. 

 

If i wanted a long term fix no i wouldnt do it. But neither one of those projects were worth me spending money on. 

 

Why would i pay money to fix either product? Im not going to pay money for products that at this point i wouldnt buy anyways. To me a 290 and xbox 360 arent worth $20 let alone whatever a shop would cost to fix.

 

Heating bill? You think baking something in an oven for a few minutes is going to drastically change my power bill? No.

 

Damaging my oven? Ovens fine. I have no fear on continuing to use the oven. I highly doubt that baking a pcb is going to have any ill effects towards me.

 

Ruining parts? They were broken equipment. Even when they were functioning they werent worth much money. 

 

Im not auto assuming anything. If you have a repair shop near you that do repairs for dirt cheap thats great. Most shops around me have a min fee for jobs. And like i said. These parts arent worth $20 to me. So they sure as hell arent worth the min shop fee and the time to deal with the repair shop.

 

If you think that old tech is worth paying to fix then thats your opinion and nothing wrong with that. But to me they arent. 

 

So again. I paid and lost literally nothing by doing this since it was a last ditch effort before i tossed them in the trash. The xbox is still going fine. 290 isnt. Doesnt matter if i broke it more or not since i was planning on throwing it away anyway.